DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference


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Shoals Surfer

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Post Sunday, 4th March 2012, 18:48

DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Because I've always been one to have reference in a single, happy place, I've updated my DCSS spreadsheet to 0.10.

It's available at the below link:
http://detarame.wordpress.com/2012/03/23/another-dcss-spreadsheet-update-and-longcats/

Edited Post; the above is now version II!

Now including an exhaustive graphical version of the aptitudes chart, which looks like this:
Image
Also includes Base Stats for Races and Classes, Innate powers and mutations, demonspawn reference, class reference, gods reference, and a chunk of my biased personal opinions that you can take with a pinch of salt if you wish. As of version II, there is also a fully comprehensive reference of all of Crawl's 134 spells, organised by level and alphabetically, with schools, books, and backgrounds information as well as reference on usage.

http://detarame.wordpress.com/2012/03/04/dungeon-crawl-stone-soup-0-10-reference-excel-sheet/
More screencaps are also available at the blog post above. Don't want to make this a massive post of doom.

Anyway, I ~believe~ everything is accurate, but I'm counting on everyone here to find mistakes for me to fix, of course. :D

Any other comments are also appreciated, whether on formatting or content or whatever.
Last edited by eharper256 on Friday, 23rd March 2012, 22:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Sunday, 4th March 2012, 19:27

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Looks amazing!
If you find any mistakes or typos in my post, feel free to PM me about it. Thanks in advance!

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Blades Runner

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Post Sunday, 4th March 2012, 21:38

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

I believe that this might have posted in Dungeon Crawling Advice rather than at Yiuf's :).
... and forgive us our YASDs,
As we forgive our developers,
And lead us not into the Abyss,
But deliver us from Sigmund,
For Thine is the Roguelike,
the Orb and the Victory,
now and forever.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Sunday, 4th March 2012, 22:11

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Glad you guys like it. :)

If the mods want to move it to the Advice Forum, thats cool. Didn't quite know where to put it, to be honest.

As a side note, I already spotted 2 small mistakes! :P Oh well, I'll save up for any further ones people report and change them all at once.
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Monday, 5th March 2012, 04:19

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

this is great :D no more browsing learndb for stats/aptitudes!

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 5th March 2012, 10:08

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Moved to DCA.

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Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 5th March 2012, 17:29

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Thanks for the move, Grimm.

Anyone got any suggestions for stuff to go on it?

I was thinking of a 'starting items/skills' column for backgrounds. This is currently already in the description for most of them, but a dedicated list wouldn't hurt.

Also, a new sheet for all of the spells might eventually get done. Maybe also all of the mutations. Monsters, however, is very unlikely as that would be a staggering amount of work.

I also guess, with Danr's permission, I could integrate the Weaponlab, but thats low priority.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 5th March 2012, 19:32

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Spellbooks!
If you find any mistakes or typos in my post, feel free to PM me about it. Thanks in advance!

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Blades Runner

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Post Monday, 5th March 2012, 19:38

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Adding starting spells per class would be awesome.
(are they the same for every race ... Are they?)

EDIT: And please, rename this thread to "DCSS 0.10 ExcelLENT Sheet of Reference" ;)
... and forgive us our YASDs,
As we forgive our developers,
And lead us not into the Abyss,
But deliver us from Sigmund,
For Thine is the Roguelike,
the Orb and the Victory,
now and forever.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Tuesday, 6th March 2012, 11:31

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Okay, spell related stuffs will be added next.

As far as I'm aware, race doesn't alter the starting spellbook, just the other equipment.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Sunday, 11th March 2012, 21:32

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Yes, work is about 1/2 complete on the spells tab of the excel sheet. Here's a preview:
Image
Spells are classified by level and then alphabetically.

Also, anyone know the base damage on Shock and Sting? It's not on the Knowledge bots or wiki. I'm guessing 1d8 like Magic Dart for Shock but I could be wrong. Sting isn't very high though, feels like 1d4 + Poison?
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Slime Squisher

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Post Monday, 12th March 2012, 03:04

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Skeletons are based on a weakened verson of the monster who's corpse you use (as are zmbies, although less weakened.)
Hydra skeletons, for example, are far from a "weak doorstop".
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 12th March 2012, 09:23

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

One-Eyed Jack wrote:Skeletons are based on a weakened verson of the monster who's corpse you use (as are zmbies, although less weakened.)
Hydra skeletons, for example, are far from a "weak doorstop".

Oh, is that so? Interesting.

By the time I meet hydrae, I typically have Twisted Resurrection online or some other replacement for Skeleton, so can't say I've used it on strong enemies. It still has the problem of minions not following you down and up stairs though.

Still, since I didn't realise this, I shall change the wording on that entry. Please keep highlighting the issues like this, people! Thanks!
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Friday, 23rd March 2012, 22:52

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Well... 20 days down the line, and thank the gods, the Spells section of the Excel Sheet is completed!!!

Get it from this post


134 spells is alot to write about.

All of the information used is taken from the knowledge bots, and should be relatively accurate, but I'm sure there are still lurking misconceptions and errors in there; it's up to you guys to find them. Also, there is little to no information around on the maximum damage outputs of several spells; and I'm not sure how much I can obtain through data-diving.

I'll update the front post in just a moment.

I think I need to take a short break from updates right now, at least a week or so, but further feature suggestions will be listened to and added when I have time. It's a good thing that work is so quiet this time of the year. :o
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Spider Stomper

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Post Saturday, 24th March 2012, 16:38

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

eharper256 wrote:All of the information used is taken from the knowledge bots, and should be relatively accurate, but I'm sure there are still lurking misconceptions and errors in there; it's up to you guys to find them. Also, there is little to no information around on the maximum damage outputs of several spells; and I'm not sure how much I can obtain through data-diving.


Maybe I've made some mistakes, but the results seem reasonable:

Image

And the gnuplot file:
  Code:
min(x,y)=x<y?x:y

stone_arrow(x)=7.5+3*min(x,50)/16
mystic_blast(x)=7.5+min(x,100)/5
throw_icicle(x)=5+min(x,100)/4
fireball(x)=5+min(x,200)/4
bolt_of_venom(x)=7.5+x/4

bolt_of_lightning(x)=5.5+(3*x)/10
bolt_of_magma_or_draining(x)=7.5+(3*x)/10

bolt_of_fire_or_cold(x)=9+x/3
iron_shot(x)=7.5+(3*x)/8
#orb_electricity(x)=6.5+(4*x)/10
#dispel(x)=10+(3*x)/8

poison_arrow(x)=7.5+x/2
crystal_spear(x)=11.5+x/2
ice_storm(x)=11+x/2
fire_storm(x)=2.5+x/2

#inaccuracy(x)=20+x/2

#flame(x)=4+x/10
#dart(x)=1.5+x/10

set xrange [1:200]
set grid
set key left
set xlabel "spellpower"
set ylabel "avg. damage"
set terminal png
set output "spells.png"

plot \
stone_arrow(x), mystic_blast(x), throw_icicle(x), fireball(x), \
bolt_of_venom(x), bolt_of_lightning(x), \
bolt_of_magma_or_draining(x), bolt_of_fire_or_cold(x), \
iron_shot(x), poison_arrow(x), \
crystal_spear(x), \
ice_storm(x), fire_storm(x)

#pause -1

Slime Squisher

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Post Sunday, 25th March 2012, 07:58

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Nice work. Some concerns:

Dispel Undead is level 5 now.
The resist poison spell doesn't exist anymore.
I think the resistability of throw icicle was lowered (the xls says 60% physical which I think is too high), but I don't have any numbers.
Phase shift is considered quite good (although I don't have much experience with it.)
I'm pretty sure conjure ball lightning was taken out as well.
I also personally don't think that's it's debatable that Summon Dragon is a much stronger spell than Summon Horrible Things, but I guess that's just opinion.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 25th March 2012, 08:21

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

One-Eyed Jack wrote:Nice work. Some concerns:

Dispel Undead is level 5 now.
The resist poison spell doesn't exist anymore.
I think the resistability of throw icicle was lowered (the xls says 60% physical which I think is too high), but I don't have any numbers.
Phase shift is considered quite good (although I don't have much experience with it.)
I'm pretty sure conjure ball lightning was taken out as well.
I also personally don't think that's it's debatable that Summon Dragon is a much stronger spell than Summon Horrible Things, but I guess that's just opinion.

Throw icicle/ice storm are indeed 60% irresistible.
Conjure ball lightning still exists.

SHT is more powerful per-turn and per-MP than Summon Dragon (and in my opinion overall stronger because of this) but it is not as good for constantly walking around with summons. Either way though it's not a big deal; if you get SHT castable you have won the game, just as if you get Summon Dragon castable you have won the game.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Sunday, 25th March 2012, 11:02

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

One-Eyed Jack wrote:Dispel Undead is level 5 now.
The resist poison spell doesn't exist anymore.

Derp, thought I'd fixed these things already. :shock:
Oh well...

One-Eyed Jack wrote:Phase shift is considered quite good (although I don't have much experience with it.)

Yeah, I don't have any experience with it, as you can tell. It's just that it doesn't ~sound~ very effective.

However, I just noticed that some graphs are linked on the knowledge bots... hmmm...

I am right in saying that, assuming 30HD creature, with and without fighter, that +8EV is effectively similar to +8% and +4% dodge respectively? However, a 10HD creature, that same boost will be 22%~ish and 18%~ish? So I guess thats pretty substantial in the latter case. Perhaps I'll revise the xls.

One-Eyed Jack wrote:I also personally don't think that's it's debatable that Summon Dragon is a much stronger spell than Summon Horrible Things, but I guess that's just opinion.

The main thing Dragons has going for it is that you can have it up all the time. Whereas S.H.T. is going be continually draining INT if you do that.
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Monday, 26th March 2012, 12:42

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

This is awesome! What I especially like is that it gives useful info without really spoilering the game (if you did a monsters one, I doubt I'd read it for that reason). Ta muchly.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 26th March 2012, 15:31

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Moanerette wrote:This is awesome! What I especially like is that it gives useful info without really spoilering the game (if you did a monsters one, I doubt I'd read it for that reason). Ta muchly.

You're welcome. I'm glad you say that, because this is precisely the goal of the spreadsheet; allowing one to make informed decisions without anything massively spoileriffic.

To be honest, monsters wouldn't work on a big list very well anyway, so it's a not a feature I would have likely considered. For that purpose, the knowledge bots are best, querying foes on a one by one basis as needed; and in many cases also providing the sprite, something an Excel sheet couldn't.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 3rd April 2012, 01:35

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

eharper256 wrote:
One-Eyed Jack wrote:Phase shift is considered quite good (although I don't have much experience with it.)

Yeah, I don't have any experience with it, as you can tell. It's just that it doesn't ~sound~ very effective.


I've used it a fair amount. I find it nearly as helpful as deflect missiles, although that's just because my build is a melee naga who has high AC, SH, and medium EV. A boost of +8 EV makes it very hard for melee/ranged/spells to hit you, and combined with deflect missiles have roughly no chance at all ;)

It's not as useful on a caster because you probably don't want to put up 11 mana into deflect/phase shift, and casters aren't going to be exposed to as many melee attacks, so the limitation on deflect not helping vs melee is less important to them. But if you're writing up all the spells, phase shift is definitely a useful one to the right build.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 3rd April 2012, 01:43

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Phase shift is very good. It's like ozo's armour but works for everyone and gives you more survivability for your investment.

Snake Sneak

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Post Tuesday, 3rd April 2012, 15:54

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Thanks for doing this, great resource!

Some things I noticed:

-Since 0.9 Shock and Lightning bolt can only hit a target a maximum of twice. However setting up a trizap or quadrazap path is still worthwhile in case the first 1-2 miss.
-Lightning Bolt appears to be missing from the spreadsheet.
-Shatter should mention reduced damage vs. Flying.
-On the Classes tab, "Priest (Zin/Beorgh)" -- should be Beogh.
-On the races tab, "No effect from potions" is Mummy-specific, not all undead.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Wednesday, 4th April 2012, 09:46

Re: DCSS 0.10 Excel Sheet of Reference

Okay, thanks for the input. I'll correct these things for version III.

How did I miss Lightning Bolt... err... oh well. Also, didn't know you couldn't hit with all of a Tri-Zap anymore; probably why my AE's keep dying. :D

I'll make sure Phase Shift gets a more praiseworthy description as well.

Any other feature requests whilst I'm here? It's not likely to be done this week but I'm gonna have time next week to put some more work into the sheet.
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