Nemelex Weighting Question

[Fungus]

So I've been trying out Nemelex and from reading the wiki ("Ha, the wiki?!" you say) I'm not sure I understand the weighting of different types of decks. On convert around D:8, I sacrificed as much food as I could find and got a deck of wonders. Some other time later I got another one (not sequential IIRC). I've been sacrificing everything I can and have FINALLY got my piety up to max stars after completing Lair:1-7 and Orc. I've drawn nearly everything blind. Now it seems that I get decks of summoning and destruction with regularity, and occasional decks of escape. Makes sense, considering what I've been sacrificing. Have I permanently messed up the numbers for getting decks of wonders/dungeons later? I tried buying out an entire food shop and I've been sacrificing nearly every scroll and potion I can find, to no avail...

Anyway, if anyone could explain the math behind the weighting (percentages? raw points to percentage?) and whether the weights ever decay, that would be nice.

[sir_laser]

Well, I'm no expert, but IIRC it's the value of the items you sacrifice. So if you sac the Sword of Jihad (usually sells for 20 - 35 K in shops) it'd take many, many meat rations to have a good chance of getting a Deck of Wonders (again).

[TwilightPhoenix]

The weights do decay as you get gifted decks of that type. Not sure if there's a cap on the weighting or not.

You can also use those less desired decks up. Using cards builds piety, which reduces deck gifting cooldown, which in turn speeds up the decay of the weighting of the decks you don't currently want.

Because there's fewer options for sacrificing for them, Dungeons and Wonders will always be harder to get. But now that you're at max piety, you can try focusing on those if you want to without hurting yourself in the long term (trying to scum particular decks below max piety usually means fewer and lower quality decks total of all types).

[Fungus]

Well, I'm no expert, but IIRC it's the value of the items you sacrifice. So if you sac the Sword of Jihad (usually sells for 20 - 35 K in shops) it'd take many, many meat rations to have a good chance of getting a Deck of Wonders (again).

That's what I was afraid of. I didn't know if there was a percentage breakdown or a comparison of points-->percentage. I was thinking maybe I had something like 35% Summonings, 35% Destruction, 25% Escape, < 5% Wonders and Dungeons. But based on value, it's more like...?:

Summonings: 14050 points
Destruction: 15080 poins
Escape: 8000 points
Wonders: 200 points (<-- contents of a shop of food
Dungeons: 50 points

Numbers are just random, but something along those lines?

The weights do decay as you get gifted decks of that type.

Ah, that's good to know. I've been saving many decks for "emergencies" but I have probably about 5-6 of the three main types above. I'll try to use them more often (legendary decks of Destruction are a bit scary).

[XuaXua]

(legendary decks of Destruction are a bit scary).

Don't be such a wimp. If you draw at monsters that are 2 or more spaces away (The Spark) and not when you're at low health while poisoned unless it's marked (don't want to get poisoned while at low health via Olgreb or Tormented to low health while poisoned), you should be safe. Even Torment won't directly KILL you.

[Fungus]

Walking into Mara on V:1 and getting hit with two Bolts of Fire will... =P

So far next time, the general idea is:

1) Sacrifice EVERYTHING and use cards to get to max piety, then,
2) Limit yourself (^!) and try for what you want.

[KoboldLord]

Be aware that Decks of Wonders are horrible deathtraps. They have the highest proportion of cards that can seriously cripple your character, and you often cannot correct the problem with the resources on hand. You might get lucky, but the choice of skilled players is generally to amass Decks of Summoning to spam in combat and then stack Decks of Escape for emergencies.

[Fungus]

The 5-6 decks of wonders I've used on my lowbie Nemelex followers were fine. Perhaps Legendary is more dangerous? I suppose the "worst" thing is shuffle, though Focus messed a few things around. I want to build a character that (ab)uses Helix.

[KoboldLord]

For a low-level immediate convert using their first deck, the worst thing a Deck of Wonders can do is make you drop dead on the spot if you draw Wild Magic and get a bad roll. You can also get saddle with crippling mutations for the rest of the game, surrounded by permanent hostile demons up to and including executioners, or sent to the Abyss. Shuffle is the one that's notorious for ruining high-level characters in the late game, but it's the last thing you should be worried about at XL5.

You're more likely to draw an Experience card and get a significant boost to your skills for the early game, but if you run around making gambles where you have a 90% chance of decent success and 10% chance of DEATH all the time, you're never going to make it to the late game.

[Fungus]

You're more likely to draw an Experience card and get a significant boost to your skills for the early game, but if you run around making gambles where you have a 90% chance of decent success and 10% chance of DEATH all the time, you're never going to make it to the late game.

Don't be such a wimp.

I've had some close calls with Wild Magic--severe contamination/mutation, explosions, etc. But worth a ~40HP hit to try it IMO. I suppose it could have been worse...

[TwilightPhoenix]

I always triple draw from Wonders twice and then stack five it.

And Legendary Decks of Destruction can be quite nasty. One time I drew a card and shot out 9(!) Orbs of Destruction at my hapless attackers.

[sir_laser]

For a low-level immediate convert using their first deck, the worst thing a Deck of Wonders can do is make you drop dead on the spot if you draw Wild Magic and get a bad roll.

This has happened to me. An Ornate Deck of Wonders produced a Wild Magic card that happen to evoke a Lvl. 3 Distortion Miscast, dealing 38 damage to my 36 hp character, one-shoting it. It was the first card from that deck too!
If you wanna scum and hope for an Experience card that's your choice, though...

[Yet Another Stupid Noob]

For a low-level immediate convert using their first deck, the worst thing a Deck of Wonders can do is make you drop dead on the spot if you draw Wild Magic and get a bad roll. You can also get saddle with crippling mutations for the rest of the game, surrounded by permanent hostile demons up to and including executioners, or sent to the Abyss. Shuffle is the one that's notorious for ruining high-level characters in the late game, but it's the last thing you should be worried about at XL5.

You're more likely to draw an Experience card and get a significant boost to your skills for the early game, but if you run around making gambles where you have a 90% chance of decent success and 10% chance of DEATH all the time, you're never going to make it to the late game.

This happened to me once on a troll that had found dragon armor on D7. Slightly hurt, drew a Vehmut wrath card....dead troll.

Have not touched Namelex since.

[Fungus]

I'm thinking using decks is a gamble regardless of how you spin it. That's partly the point, isn't it?

As an example: with my L14 character I ran into a pack of nasty rakshasas on D:12 or so. I tried a deck of summoning twice and got hostile summons. I then tried a recently gifted deck of summoning and got WRATH (out of place) which summoned a unique orc warlord and his party all around me. I made it out, barely, but it did not go over well...

[ebarrett]

People, when we say Nemelex is just draw cards and win, we are implying basic things like "raise evo a lot", "consider that plain summonings might give you hostiles", "destruction always carries some risk", and "stack these decks of escape". There's always a lot of Nemelex scaremongering going around, and he seems to trip up people first trying him out, but honestly - just draw cards and win.

[TwilightPhoenix]

just draw cards and win.

You draw a card... it's the Epic Win.
The Orb of Zot appears at your feet!
You see here an exit from the dungeon.

[banei]

I believe wrong deck cards shouldn't happen with Nemelex. I once died from 56 dmg wrath card in a summoning deck that was gifted. When using cards a lot, that 1% chance pops up far too often.

[ebarrett]

The chance of said 1% doing something catastrophic is minimal, just barely enough to provide anecdotal evidence. Cards that don't belong in their decks are less relevant to character survivability than distortion-branded gifts from Trog or Okawaru.

[BlackSheep]

It's also worth noting that Oddities cards sometimes do good things, like drawing the Genie and getting a free acquirement. It's gambling, and requires a goodly amount of spoilers if you want to know exactly what's going on, but it's also very easy to get a lot of benefit out of NX.