A fork in the road?


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 217

Joined: Tuesday, 21st February 2012, 21:32

Post Saturday, 2nd June 2012, 00:14

A fork in the road?

I wanted to take a break from my routine of YASDing my NaBe's and SpWi's, so I started up a MeAk for the cheezy start you get from polearm abomination-killing from deep-water. Already by D:3 I've found a +3 scale mail of cold resistance and the enchanter starting book, Book of Maledictions. I feel like I'm already forced to make a decision now whether I want to be an armor guy or a spellcasting guy (since I'm already very close to min delay on polearms).

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.2 character file.

MeAk the Spear-Bearer (Merfolk Abyssal Knight)      Turns: 2441, Time: 00:10:50

HP  53/53        AC 10     Str 13      XL: 7   Next: 76%
MP  10/10        EV  8     Int 13      God: Lugonu [***...]
Gold 83          SH  0     Dex 13      Spells:  0 memorised,  6 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .    a - +2 spear {=f}
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : . .  r - +3 dwarf scale mail {rC+}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    (no shield)
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    (no helmet)
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    (no cloak)
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    p - +0 pair of gloves
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    (no boots)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    (no amulet)
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    (no ring)
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    (no ring)

@: slightly resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: change form in water, swift swim
a: Depart the Abyss, Bend Space, Banish, Renounce Religion

You are on level 3 of the Dungeon.
You worship Lugonu.
Lugonu is greatly pleased with you.
You are hungry.

You have visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and seen 3 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.

You have collected 63 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +2,+2 spear (weapon) {=f}
Armour
 p - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 r - a +3 dwarven scale mail of cold resistance (worn)
Comestibles
 b - a beef jerky
 c - 3 bread rations
 f - 2 meat rations
 g - a pear
Scrolls
 d - 4 scrolls labeled GUXOTAD THUIMM
 e - a scroll labeled PAOT SHERIESA
 h - a scroll labeled NUTTIX RUMIRYP
 j - 3 scrolls labeled PHYOGRYGOY
 l - a scroll labeled SCHUEXZ STAHAMU
 m - a scroll labeled ZUTUBROXEI
 s - a scroll labeled FIFYTUDESO
Potions
 i - a red potion
 k - a slimy inky potion
 n - 4 viscous orange potions
 q - a blue potion
Books
 o - a book of Maledictions   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Corona                             Hexes                        1
   Sure Blade                         Hexes/Charms                 2
   Ensorcelled Hibernation            Hexes/Ice                    2
   Confuse                            Hexes                        3
   Enslavement                        Hexes                        4
   Invisibility                       Hexes                        6


   Skills:
 - Level 4.9 Fighting
 - Level 11.0 Polearms
 + Level 1.3 Armour
 - Level 4.1 Dodging
 - Level 3.0 Invocations


You have 6 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (3/27)           

Altars:

Message History

A rat comes into view.
You closely miss the rat. The rat bites you but does no damage.
You hit the rat.
You kill the rat!
Lugonu accepts your kill.
No target in view!
You see here a rat corpse.
You offer a prayer to Lugonu.
The rat corpse disappears into the void.
Lugonu is greatly pleased with you.
Found a mace.
n - 4 viscous orange potions
Found 24 stones.
o - a leatherbound book
Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Found 6 needles of sickness.
s - a scroll labeled FIFYTUDESO
You see here 6 needles of sickness.
You are feeling hungry.

      #####
      #.#.########
#######.#........#
#.......#(######.###
#.#####.#.#  #.....#
#.#   #.#.####.#.#.#
..#   #.#.#......#.#
###   #.#...@....#.#
      #.###.######.#
      #.#..........#
      #.#.#.#####..#
      #.#.#.#...#..#
   ####.# #.#.#.#..#####
   #..#.#.#.#.#.#..#...#
####.(#.#.#.....#..#....
......#.#.###........#.#
.###.##.#...............
...#..........######.#..
...####.....#.#.#.......


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  A large abomination (Abyss)
  A small abomination (Abyss)
  3 adders
  A giant mite (D:2)
  A giant gecko (D:2)
  9 bats
  2 giant cockroaches
  7 hobgoblins
  10 kobolds
  A ball python (D:2)
  4 giant newts
  7 goblins
  A quokka (D:3)
  13 rats
61 creatures vanquished.

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | Abyss    | MeAk, the Merfolk Abyssal Knight, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 1/1
   233 | Abyss    | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
   233 | Abyss    | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
   233 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 2. HP: 12/23 MP: 3/3
   233 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 3. HP: 14/28 MP: 4/4
   233 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 4. HP: 17/35 MP: 6/6
   308 | Abyss    | Reached skill level 10 in Polearms
   308 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 5. HP: 28/41 MP: 7/7
   308 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 6. HP: 32/47 MP: 9/9
   308 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/53 MP: 10/10
   340 | D:1      | You pass through the gate.
  1703 | D:2      | Acquired Lugonu's second power
  2343 | D:3      | Reached skill level 11 in Polearms
  2365 | D:3      | Acquired Lugonu's third power
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5832

Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30

Post Saturday, 2nd June 2012, 04:32

Re: A fork in the road?

Well, when you find a fork in the road, you might as well take it.
"Be aware that a lot of people on this forum, such as mageykun and XuaXua, have a habit of making things up." - minmay a.k.a. duvessa
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User avatar

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 857

Joined: Monday, 31st January 2011, 23:19

Post Saturday, 2nd June 2012, 04:50

Re: A fork in the road?

It depends entirely on which god you plan on going with.

The easiest route is to go with armor and chose Trog. You could always continue to pump INT and later abandon Trog before the crypt and get up spellcasting with TSO... it's not hard to cast at that point if you find some dragon armor.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6393

Joined: Friday, 17th December 2010, 18:17

Post Saturday, 2nd June 2012, 04:51

Re: A fork in the road?

XuaXua wrote:Well, when you find a fork in the road, you might as well take it.

I could see "Yogi" being an irritating unique.

For this message the author Grimm has received thanks:
XuaXua

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Saturday, 2nd June 2012, 06:01

Re: A fork in the road?

You are a merfolk so almost certainly you want to wear a robe or something similar. Learn spells to go along with it (or go trog and just have huge EV).

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2996

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Saturday, 2nd June 2012, 08:55

Re: A fork in the road?

The easiest route is to go with armor and chose Trog. You could always continue to pump INT and later abandon Trog before the crypt and get up spellcasting with TSO... it's not hard to cast at that point if you find some dragon armor.


"yeah, go Trog, who cares about Lugonu wrath"

(this is the most stupid thing he could do)

Yes, you probably want to cast eventually. However, the Book of Maledictions is more or less useless to you, because it is biased towards stabbers and you can't stab effectively.

(since I'm already very close to min delay on polearms).


Considering your aptitudes a bardiche is usually a better choice than a demon trident, as long as you don't find an amazing shield.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 217

Joined: Tuesday, 21st February 2012, 21:32

Post Saturday, 2nd June 2012, 18:06

Re: A fork in the road?

cerebovssquire wrote:Considering your aptitudes a bardiche is usually a better choice than a demon trident, as long as you don't find an amazing shield.

Oh shoots. I waited on thread before putting any more into Armour, but continued to play while waiting, and as soon as I found a shield, I pumped the skill to 15. FWIW, I haven't seen a bardiche though. Thus far my choices are a vanilla +0/1 glaive, a vanilla +2/1 trident, a +2/3 vampiric(?!) trident, a +4/+7 spear of piercing (except for one accidental ?III, I didn't enchant, it, that's how I found it! Nice find for D:5!)

I was thinking I probably want demon trident / distortion though? I mean, I'm Lugonu, so may as well try it while I'm here.

You are a merfolk so almost certainly you want to wear a robe or something similar. Learn spells to go along with it (or go trog and just have huge EV).

Why robe and not some kind of smallish EV-penalty armour like dragon/mottled/troll though? I guess I don't understand the EV penalty interactions. I read somewhere Spriggans got some kind of multiplier on the -EV number, so I can understand the robe impetus there, but not so much here.

I've got an amulet of rage. (Actually, I've got 3... all amulets this game have been rage, two of the four spellbooks have been 'of the Dragon', and I've got five fireball wands. The RNG is trying to be funny this game.) So, yeah, switching to Trogg definitely ain't happening.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.2 character file.

MeAk the Impaler (Merfolk Abyssal Knight)          Turns: 34183, Time: 03:08:55

HP 118/118       AC 15     Str 13      XL: 15   Next: 36%
MP  26/26        EV 13     Int 18      God: Lugonu [******]
Gold 484         SH 26     Dex 13      Spells:  0 memorised, 14 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : .    a - +4,+7 spear (pierce)
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : . .  r - +4 dwarf scale mail {rC+}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    M - +0 shield
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    (no helmet)
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    (no cloak)
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    U - +0 pair of gauntlets
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    v - +2 pair of boots
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    m - amulet of rage
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    f - ring "Wyixtan" {+Inv rF+ Acc+5}
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    h - +0,+7 ring of slaying

@: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: change form in water, swift swim
a: Depart the Abyss, Bend Space, Banish, Corrupt, Enter the Abyss, Renounce
Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage, Evoke Invisibility


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Lugonu.
Lugonu is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 23 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.

You have collected 1165 gold pieces.
You have spent 701 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +4,+7 spear of piercing (weapon)
 b - an uncursed blowgun
 u - a +2,+1 trident
 z - a +0,+1 orcish glaive
 R - a +2,+3 vampiric trident
Missiles
 w - 10 curare-tipped +0 needles
 y - 37 poisoned needles
 A - 6 needles of sickness
 C - 19 steel +0 darts (quivered)
Armour
 g - a +0 elven chain mail of poison resistance
 r - a +4 dwarven scale mail of cold resistance (worn)
 v - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 M - a +0 shield (worn)
 U - a +0 pair of gauntlets (worn)
Magical devices
 e - a wand of lightning {zapped: 1}
 k - a brass wand
 o - a wand of teleportation
 s - a wand of fireball {zapped: 1}
 t - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 1}
 B - a wand of fire
 I - a wand of flame
 N - a wand of magic darts {zapped: 2}
 O - a wand of paralysis (6)
 Y - a wand of teleportation {zapped: 2}
Scrolls
 G - a scroll of detect curse
 H - 2 scrolls of fog
 K - 3 scrolls of teleportation
 L - 2 scrolls of fear
Jewellery
 f - the ring "Wyixtan" (right hand) {+Inv rF+ Acc+5}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of protection from fire]
   
   It affects your accuracy (+5).
   It lets you turn invisible.
 h - a +0,+7 ring of slaying (left hand)
 l - a +5 ring of protection
 m - an amulet of rage (around neck)
 p - an uncursed ring of sustenance
Potions
 c - 4 potions of agility
 d - 2 fuming white potions
 i - a potion of heal wounds
 n - 2 potions of curing
 x - 2 potions of brilliance
 S - a potion of restore abilities
Magical staves
 q - a +6 rod of summoning (13/13)
   (You acquired it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
Miscellaneous
 j - a disc of storms
 Z - a box of beasts


   Skills:
 + Level 13.4 Fighting
 - Level 16.0 Polearms
 - Level 6.0 Throwing
 + Level 3.8 Armour
 - Level 15.0 Dodging
 - Level 15.0 Shields
 - Level 8.1 Invocations
 - Level 10.0 Evocations


You have 14 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (12/27)            Temple (0/1) D:7             Orc (0/4) D:8
   Lair (8/8) D:11          Swamp (0/5) Lair:5       Shoals (3/5) Lair:4
  Slime (0/6) Lair:6     

Altars:
Elyvilon
Makhleb
Trog
Xom
Zin

Shops:
D:4: *  D:8: !  D:10: //

Message History

11 sultanas; 5 chokos; 7 grapes
You drop 3 bread rations.
You drop 3 pears.
You drop 5 meat rations.
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
Items here: /////////////
There are several objects here.
Pick up a wand of flame? ((y)es/(n)o/(a)ll/(m)enu/*?g,/q)
You see here a +0 elven chain mail of poison resistance.
You see here 16 silver sling bullets.
Items here: )))))))))
Items here: )))))))))
You see here 16 silver sling bullets.
You see here a +0 elven chain mail of poison resistance.
g - a +0 elven chain mail of poison resistance
You see here 16 silver sling bullets.
Items here: )))))))))
There are several objects here.
Pick up the quarterstaff "Bick" {pain, rPois}? ((y)es/(n)o/(a)ll/(m)enu/*?g,/q)
z - a +0,+1 orcish glaive; u - a +2,+1 trident

   ######.###..#   ###.#.#########
   #...........#   #.......#......
   #...........#  ##.###.#....#.##
   #...........#  #.[#...#...#....
   #######.#####  ##...#......!...
         #.#     #######.#.#.###.#
##       #.#     #......[#.......#
.### #####.#     #.#.##.###.####..
...###.##f.##    #...........# ###
............#    ###.........#  ##
..#######.###      #.........#  #.
.##.....############.........## ##
..#.....####..##.##..<........####
....._...........)(./%?"!:........
.................@..<..........>..
###.....f.#############.#.#.######
  #########           #######    #


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Aizul (Shoals:1)
  A siren (Shoals:3)
  A wizard (Lair:8)
  Polyphemus (Shoals:2)
  5 hydras
  8 death yaks
  A large abomination (Abyss)
  4 sea snakes
  2 hill giants
  7 harpies
  A griffon (Lair:8)
  A cyclops (Shoals:2)
  An eye of devastation (Lair:6)
  2 black mambas (Lair:4)
  An elephant slug (Lair:8)
  13 elephants
  A feature mimic (Lair:3)
  14 spiny frogs
  7 mermaids
  8 komodo dragons
  2 baby alligators (Lair:5)
  13 blink frogs
  8 snapping turtles
  A two-headed ogre (D:5)
  7 sharks
  24 yaks
  2 basilisks
  2 wyverns
  A blink frog skeleton (D:7)
  3 fire drakes
  15 hippogriffs
  9 war dogs
  18 merfolk
  5 manticores
  A necrophage (D:11)
  A sky beast (D:8)
  A small abomination (Abyss)
  2 orc warriors
  An ice beast (D:9)
  A phantom (D:3)
  5 ogres
  A swamp drake (D:11)
  A black bear (Lair:3)
  2 centaurs
  12 crocodiles
  3 boring beetles
  11 giant frogs
  8 water moccasins
  3 giant slugs
  5 gnoll sergeants (D:5)
  A brain worm (Lair:7)
  4 agate snails
  An eye of draining (Lair:6)
  A basilisk skeleton (D:11)
  A boulder beetle (Lair:8)
  An eye of draining (shapeshifter) (D:11)
  3 killer bees (D:8)
  5 jellyfish (Lair:6)
  4 wights (D:11)
  A shadow (D:11)
  6 crimson imps
  3 quasits (D:10)
  3 goliath beetles
  2 gnoll shamans (D:5)
  A hound skeleton (D:4)
  16 hounds
  5 orc priests
  2 big fish (Lair:6)
  3 scorpions
  5 iguanas
  3 orc wizards
  9 porcupines
  8 worker ants
  22 sheep
  A goliath beetle zombie (D:8)
  36 green rats
  24 adders
  21 gnolls
  5 giant centipedes
  5 giant mites
  2 worms
  2 giant eyeballs (D:8)
  A gnoll skeleton (D:4)
  8 giant geckos
  An ooze (D:3)
  12 orcs
  32 bats
  7 giant cockroaches
  22 hobgoblins
  22 kobolds
  2 ball pythons
  8 giant newts
  15 goblins
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:6)
  18 jackals
  A kobold skeleton (D:9)
  An orc skeleton (D:6)
  9 quokkas
  26 rats
  2 bushes (Lair:1)
  2 fungi (Lair:5)
  14 plants
  14 toadstools
672 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A dire elephant (Lair:8)
  A ball lightning (Shoals:2)
  2 harpies (Shoals:2)
  A black mamba (Lair:2)
  A snapping turtle (Shoals:1)
  A kobold (D:10)
  3 rats
  7 fungi
  6 plants
  35 toadstools
58 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 730 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | Abyss    | MeAk, the Merfolk Abyssal Knight, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 1/1
   233 | Abyss    | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
   233 | Abyss    | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
   233 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 2. HP: 12/23 MP: 3/3
   233 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 3. HP: 14/28 MP: 4/4
   233 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 4. HP: 17/35 MP: 6/6
   308 | Abyss    | Reached skill level 10 in Polearms
   308 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 5. HP: 28/41 MP: 7/7
   308 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 6. HP: 32/47 MP: 9/9
   308 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/53 MP: 10/10
   340 | D:1      | You pass through the gate.
  1703 | D:2      | Acquired Lugonu's second power
  2343 | D:3      | Reached skill level 11 in Polearms
  2365 | D:3      | Acquired Lugonu's third power
  2761 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  3562 | D:4      | Found Boank's General Store.
  3597 | D:4      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 60/60 MP: 12/12
  3725 | D:4      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  3765 | D:4      | Acquired Lugonu's fourth power
  4370 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4433 | D:5      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  4703 | D:5      | Reached skill level 12 in Polearms
  5005 | D:5      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 27/67 MP: 13/13
  5403 | D:5      | Acquired Lugonu's fifth power
  6352 | D:4      | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 4 turns
  6668 | D:3      | Reached skill level 13 in Polearms
  6860 | D:5      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  6868 | D:5      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  6868 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
  7458 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  7983 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  8634 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 70/76 MP: 15/15
  8652 | D:8      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
  8680 | D:8      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  8784 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  8874 | D:8      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
  9088 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
  9165 | D:8      | Found Twawag's Distillery.
  9256 | D:8      | Bought a potion of mutation for 36 gold pieces
  9846 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
 10020 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 10127 | D:10     | Found Xyjarch's Magical Wand Shoppe.
 10572 | D:10     | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 10604 | D:10     | Found Pleo's Magical Wand Boutique.
 10880 | D:10     | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 11120 | D:11     | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 11304 | D:11     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 82/82 MP: 20/20
 11340 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 12690 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 12783 | Lair:1   | Got a warped dire flail
 12992 | Lair:1   | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
 13700 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 13820 | Lair:1   | Identified the dire flail of the Shining Light {flame, +Rage rN+ Str+3 Int+3} (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
 14947 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations
 15751 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 15808 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 15856 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 74/94 MP: 21/21
 16253 | Lair:3   | the staircase to the Swamp was a mimic.
 16330 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 16555 | Lair:3   | You fall through a shaft!
 19080 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 19092 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 20575 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 103/103 MP: 24/24
 20924 | D:4      | Bought the ring "Wyixtan" {+Inv rF+ Acc+5} for 621 gold pieces
 20924 | D:4      | Bought a meat ration for 44 gold pieces
 21552 | Lair:1   | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 21554 | Lair:1   | Identified a +4 rod of summoning (11/11) (You acquired it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
 21904 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 22098 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 10 in Shields
 23533 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 14 in Dodging
 23665 | Lair:7   | Noticed a brain worm
 23675 | Lair:7   | Killed a brain worm
 24231 | Lair:7   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 88/110 MP: 25/25
 24502 | Lair:7   | Got a faintly glowing quarterstaff
 25109 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 25388 | Lair:1   | Identified the quarterstaff of Laynien {crush, SInv} (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)
 26376 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
 28378 | Lair:8   | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 28999 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
 30937 | Shoals:2 | Noticed Aizul
 30964 | Shoals:1 | Killed Aizul
 31614 | Shoals:2 | Noticed Polyphemus
 31657 | Shoals:2 | Reached skill level 15 in Polearms
 31774 | Shoals:2 | Killed Polyphemus
 32116 | Shoals:2 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 32158 | Shoals:2 | Reached XP level 15. HP: 95/117 MP: 26/26
 32361 | Shoals:2 | Reached skill level 16 in Polearms
 33103 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Shields
 33263 | Shoals:3 | Got a dazzling quarterstaff
 33825 | Lair:1   | Identified the quarterstaff "Bick" {pain, rPois} (You found it on level 3 of the Shoals)

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2996

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Saturday, 2nd June 2012, 18:22

Re: A fork in the road?

Restricting yourself to a robe is not a good decision. Mottled dragon armour in particular is very good (not even counting Armour benefits, it gives 12 AC when enchanted!). If you find a robe of resistance I would consider it, but to be honest most of my lightly armoured characters (when I actually play them) end up in mottled dragon armour.
The difference between a demon trident's speed at minimum delay and a bardiche's speed at minimum delay is 1 tick (6 and 7 respectively). However, in my opinion, there are two reasons why I would prefer a bardiche to a dtrident on MfAK, in addition to a bardiche being generally better for Mf:
-it can butcher
-if your weapon deals a lot of damage, you won't be blinking around people all the time because they won't live for a long time. Let's just say your weapon deals 10 damage some times in a row and blinks a centaur warrior around; obviously you'll be hit more than if had a weapon that deals 15 damage some times in a row. Therefore I actually like disto on high-damage weapons if my character mainly uses melee.
However, now that you have 15 Shields... might as well stick with them I guess, though Condensation Shield will be cool (ugh, no pun intended) with that. By the way the trident is clearly superior. By the way, the +5 protection ring is superior to the artefact in most situations.

So, yeah, switching to Trogg definitely ain't happening.


I am pretty sure that MfAK > MfBe once you are past the stage where Berserk kills everything with no problem (or even once MfAK reaches *** because Banish is ridiculously good).

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Saturday, 2nd June 2012, 20:07

Re: A fork in the road?

The "or something similar" includes stuff like leather, steam dragon armour, and mottled dragon armour. Those are pretty similar to a robe!

Snake Sneak

Posts: 113

Joined: Saturday, 12th May 2012, 21:18

Post Sunday, 3rd June 2012, 05:50

Re: A fork in the road?

As a note I think banish's power maxes out at 11 invocations, so that's a good goal for that skill. Banish is really good. Apply it liberally to anything with lowish mr.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 553

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd December 2010, 10:12

Post Sunday, 3rd June 2012, 06:09

Re: A fork in the road?

danharaj wrote:As a note I think banish's power maxes out at 11 invocations, so that's a good goal for that skill. Banish is really good. Apply it liberally to anything with lowish mr.

I'm pretty sure it maxes out at 27 skill, where it will have 232 power (not that this number means much). The power is 16 + (invoc * 8).

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3037

Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06

Post Sunday, 3rd June 2012, 06:49

Re: A fork in the road?

11 invocations would be the point where the spell power stepdown function kicked in, creating a noticeable breakpoint where diminishing returns kicks in much harder. If the spell power stepdown function was applied to invocations power, rather than just spell power, anyway. It isn't. And also if galehar hadn't recently replaced the clumsy stepdown function with an elegant logarithm that doesn't have the sharp breakpoint. If you see him, make sure you tell him that was awesome.
User avatar

Dungeon Master

Posts: 4031

Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 20:37

Location: France

Post Sunday, 3rd June 2012, 19:48

Re: A fork in the road?

KoboldLord wrote:And also if galehar hadn't recently replaced the clumsy stepdown function with an elegant logarithm that doesn't have the sharp breakpoint. If you see him, make sure you tell him that was awesome.

My pleasure :)
<+Grunt> You dereference an invalid pointer! Ouch! That really hurt! The game dies...

Spider Stomper

Posts: 217

Joined: Tuesday, 21st February 2012, 21:32

Post Monday, 4th June 2012, 00:27

Re: A fork in the road?

cerebovssquire wrote:Restricting yourself to a robe is not a good decision. Mottled dragon armour in particular is very good (not even counting Armour benefits, it gives 12 AC when enchanted!). If you find a robe of resistance I would consider it, but to be honest most of my lightly armoured characters (when I actually play them) end up in mottled dragon armour.

Not having rPois, swamp dragon armor sounds better to me (not that I'll see one soon with Mennas camping S:4). Maybe if I knew what the AC and EV numbers did, I'd know why you favor mottled. Right now, with no body armor on, and 7 Armour skill, I have 4 AC and 23 EV.

When I put on...
+0 elven chain mail of poison resistance (-4)
+4 dwarven scale mail of cold resistance (-3)
+0 troll leather armor (-1)
+0 steam dragon armour (-0)
+2 elven robe of magic resistance (-0)

I get....
13 AC / 13 EV
17 AC / 16 EV
9 AC / 22 EV
11 AC / 23 EV
9 AC / 23 EV

So, based on those numbers, I'm going to make a wild guess: that there is some threshold of Armour skill that let's you get down to the base -EV penalty, and below that, the -EV penalty is magnified. 7 Armour skill is enough to make -1 actually be -1, but to get the dwarven mail down to -3, I'd need a bigger skill? If this hypothesis is correct, what skill would I need? Andf what would I need to get -2 EV armour down to -2? If this hypothesis is not correct, what do I need to know in order to decide what to wear?

Spider Stomper

Posts: 217

Joined: Tuesday, 21st February 2012, 21:32

Post Monday, 4th June 2012, 03:38

Re: A fork in the road?

My spellbooks this game so far have been a complete joke, so I don't really feel the need to cast yet though. I'll wear it and see report what effect a bigger Armor skill has.
Last edited by ddubois on Monday, 4th June 2012, 04:28, edited 1 time in total.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 217

Joined: Tuesday, 21st February 2012, 21:32

Post Monday, 4th June 2012, 04:27

Re: A fork in the road?

So, at 11.5 Armour, 19.2 Dodging....

-0 EV armour casts at 3% Corona / 24% Fire Brand
nothing: 5 AC / 23 EV
+0 robe: 8 AC / 23 EV
+0 steam dragon armour: 12 AC / 23 EV

-1 EV armour casts at 3 % Corona / 24% Fire Brand
+0 leather armour: 9 AC / 23 EV
+0 troll leather armor: 11 AC / 23 EV
+0 mottled dragon armor: 14 AC / 23 EV

-2 EV armour casts at 8 % Corona / 45% Fire Brand
+0 swamp dragon armour: 15 AC / 20 EV

-3 EV armour casts at 12 % Corona / 82% Fire Brand
+0 scale: 14 AC / 17 EV

I'm rather surprised that swamp dragon's "real" EV penalty is -3 while the armors that claim to have a -1 EV penalty, actually have no penalty at all. Would that still be the case at 0 Armour skill?

Spider Stomper

Posts: 217

Joined: Tuesday, 21st February 2012, 21:32

Post Friday, 8th June 2012, 02:53

Re: A fork in the road?

cerebovssquire wrote:Considering your aptitudes a bardiche is usually a better choice than a demon trident, as long as you don't find an amazing shield.

So, yeah, I killed that MeAk off, I forget how. This time I was good little boy and followed all your advice: very little investment in Armour, zero Shield skill, got my Ozocubu's Armour and Condensation Shield and Haste and some other buffs reliably castable, got my bardiche to +8/+6 (which its been stuck at through two ?III's and two ?II's :cry:).

Only problem is, I'm level 20 and haven't found mottled.... And I just picked up my first ever Shield of Resistance. :shock:

Spider Stomper

Posts: 217

Joined: Tuesday, 21st February 2012, 21:32

Post Friday, 8th June 2012, 03:53

Re: A fork in the road?

Also, as if to mock my choice, the RNG has deigned me to be given a demonic trident of flaming, a demonic trident of venom, a demonic trident of electrocution, and a demonic trident of pain(!), in that order.

For this message the author ddubois has received thanks:
pratamawirya

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