Ranged weapons

[Piu]

Hi.

I'd like to ask: What the idea behind bows and x-bows?
Well, throwing do not waste turns for switching and have pretty nice damage.
Slings could use stones and don't mind shields.
But what about bows and x-bows? How to get profit of them?

[KoboldLord]

Crossbows deal LOTS of damage. You can get steel ammo, and penetrating ammo, and there's not much else you could want. Swapping to your launcher or back is a very fast action, much shorter than taking a step. It doesn't go well with shields, but if you're packing an executioner's axe, triple sword, or giant spiked club you don't have a shield anyway.

Bows don't have the awesome selection of ammo to work with, but you can brand them with holy wrath even though you can't normally apply melee brands to launchers. This kills basically everything in the post-endgame very fast.

Anyway, all launchers do lots of damage with ammo and have a very rapid rate of fire with enough skill. They're cheaper skill-wise than ranged magic, and you don't have to waste turns recovering mp after every fight. A large stack of well-enchanted ammo will last a really, really long time, since the mulch rate drops as you enchant the ammo.

[Piu]

Well, I've killed ~50 HEAM, and bows was always worse than javs or even any melee. And any enemy with armor would consume all arrows. Even when I maxed bow skill it won't gave any noticable damage.
Btw, what s the impact on bows from str\dex? I've heard different opinions.

[One-Eyed Jack]

I'm playing a DDAm for the tourney right now and am sort of curious as to how exactly skill affects ranged delay. Is there a break-point, as with melee weapons (for crossbows, say)?

[tormodpwns]

... you can brand [bows] with holy wrath even though you can't normally apply melee brands to launchers.

Is this exclusive to bows?

[crate]

Bows are very good at high skill level, but they're pretty bad at low skill. Crossbows are good at low skill, never really tried them above 10 skill though.

[CommanderC]

I'm playing a DDAm for the tourney right now and am sort of curious as to how exactly skill affects ranged delay. Is there a break-point, as with melee weapons (for crossbows, say)?

The break-point exists, but it depends on your strength and dexterity:

  Code:

delay = base_delay - 4*weapon_skill*(str_weight*str + dex_weight*dex)/250

          str_weight  dex_weight   base_delay  minimum delay
sling              5           5          110             70
bow                7           3          110             60 
longbow            7           3          120             60
crossbow           7           3          150             70



[galehar]

Nice. So, in my current game, I should reach min delay at skill level 28.41
(CeAM with a longbow)

[Tiber]

Wow, people forgot the most obvious advantage of bows vs. X-bows: where they appear. Arrows are plentiful from about 5 or so floors in, where centaurs appear. Bolts aren't massively plentiful until Vault. Likewise, it can be hard to even find a crossbow before then if you didn't pick a class that started with one, much less pick and choose to find a good one.

[Zicher]

Nice. So, in my current game, I should reach min delay at skill level 28.41
(CeAM with a longbow)

So? You're a dev, no problem for you .

[Jabberwocky]

Nice. So, in my current game, I should reach min delay at skill level 28.41
(CeAM with a longbow)

So? You're a dev, no problem for you .

It's no fun to play a game which you have changed to be much easier.

[eharper256]

Wow, people forgot the most obvious advantage of bows vs. X-bows: where they appear. Arrows are plentiful from about 5 or so floors in, where centaurs appear. Bolts aren't massively plentiful until Vault. Likewise, it can be hard to even find a crossbow before then if you didn't pick a class that started with one, much less pick and choose to find a good one.

Though this is probably a m00t point, as most of the time, if you're planning on using launchers, you'll choose a class that starts with them. Javelins (esp. Steel Javelins) are so amazing that any other class that needs ranged support should just stick to Throwing.

Generally, XBows are notably superior early on, but Longbows are quite worthwhile if you can train that far up.

Just make sure you figure out which scrolls are Enchant Weapon ASAP, and wield your ammo and Enchant it. If you can do this before D3, you're usually gonna be okay with the ammo situation, but cultivate alternate weaponskills anyway.

Also, Ranged weapon combat meshes reasonably well with Fedhas; covering yourself with plants and firing through them is very viable. Although that does give you two sets of disposable resources to look after (fruit, and ammo!) so its not for those that despise a bit of micromanagement.

[KoboldLord]

Though this is probably a m00t point, as most of the time, if you're planning on using launchers, you'll choose a class that starts with them. Javelins (esp. Steel Javelins) are so amazing that any other class that needs ranged support should just stick to Throwing.

You can pick up a generic bow from an early centaur, of which there will be dozens, and you can find crossbows on kobolds and slings on goblins. You won't necessarily find a stack of javelins all the way until D27 unless you happen to draw Shoals. Sometimes you get a few good stacks to work with, but sometimes you get nothing.

[eharper256]

Huh... I rarely see good bows drop off centaurs, but I seem to nearly always find Javelin stacks by D7, even with casters who can't possibly take the weight to carry them. -_-' Guess its down to the luck of the draw.

The main draw for Javelins (for me) is that they naturally don't mulch often at all, leaving your Enchant Scrolls to be used on your weapons.

[Zicher]

Probably just for the record, but noone ao far mentioned large rocks. Although usable by Ogres and Trolls only, they are truly a high power weapon, IMHO superior even to crossbows.
Oka or Trog will gift them on a regular basis, their mulching rate is lowest of all missiles (1/25 IIRC), and generally they make Ogre or Troll Hunters a fairly viable combo.