Bow Masters, apart from Elves and Centaurs

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

Which race would you suggest to combine with 0.9/0.10 Hunter / 0.10 Arcane Marksman training to make a competent ranged combat master who can rely on his bow?
Humans? Draconians? Demigods?

[Jeremiah]

Minotaur?

[mageykun]

Are you willing to take other launchers into consideration, or are we talking just bows?

Spriggans with slings are pretty awesome- and you don't even need to start as a hunter, since there's plenty of rocks and slings in the early D (so you can get an early start on spells by starting as a caster if you want to go AM style). I mean really, high speed kitting is just delicious. Halfings are nearly the same thing, you're just trading some speed and your spellcasting aptitude for a better slings aptitude, more equipment slots, and less fragility.

MDHus are a beast when they start- you can easily mow down many early game YASD inducers- but you can get in trouble if your ammo runs out and you haven't found Trog yet, or any floor bolts, or even so much as a friggen hand axe to replace the stinking short sword you have to start with (seriously, I had one poor guy make it to D:7 before he saw his first axe. Shoulda just taken a whip...). Course, the extinction thing now is problematic. :p I guess you'd have to go kobold or DD if you wanted to start crossbow now? A DDHu of Trog would have the convenience of keeping hp reducing things at range, with Trog for healing and ammo... and a KoHu wouldn't mind the short sword!

Plain ol' bows actually seem to me to be the weakest choice of the three skilled launchers. There's no silver searing, no steel for heavy hitting, and no penetration. I also haven't had much success going the AM route and situationally enchanting shots- it's often easier just to carry a variety of ammo, and there are often just more useful skills and spells to spend your xp and slots on.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the day I finally get a bow or xbow user far enough along to pick up TSO and take a launcher of holy wrath into the endgame. Those don't ever generate naturally, and they look like a ton of fun. =D Course, you'd probably want to go Angel hunting in the Abyss before converting so you can have a holy scourge or some kind of holy long sword to use in mele. XD

[cerebovssquire]

I guess you'd have to go kobold or DD if you wanted to start crossbow now?

Now every race can choose between Crossbows/Bows/Sling/Throwing, where Throwing is javelins for normal-sized races, rocks for Tr and Og, and darts for Ha/Ko/Sp.
Also, if you have a holy longbow or something in extended I don't see why you'd want to melee anything dangerous, ever. You'll have literally thousands of arrows and one of the best weapons for extended, and melee only for things like imps and orange demons.
Also, AM is a cool mix of Cause Fear/Inner Flame/Enslavement now, no longer a "swiftness and Venom Brand kiter".

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

Bows only.

Thanks for the advice! What about racial suggestions?

[XuaXua]

I guess you'd have to go kobold or DD if you wanted to start crossbow now?

Now every race can choose between Crossbows/Bows/Sling/Throwing, where Throwing is javelins for normal-sized races, rocks for Tr and Og, and darts for Ha/Ko/Sp.

I felt like I was killing more things with regular +4 Darts than my +7 Steel Javelins last game.

[cerebovssquire]

Darts are base damage 3, javelins 10, steel is a great brand, both are delay 10.
For new Hu, javelins are great because they will take out early ogres quite easily and are also effective against priests and wizards.

[XuaXua]

Darts are base damage 3, javelins 10, steel is a great brand, both are delay 10.
For new Hu, javelins are great because they will take out early ogres quite easily and are also effective against priests and wizards.

There aren't enough around till late game if Shoals doesn't generate and you have to enchant them up early and they really are only good if you can recover them (no apporting from under water; hooray for merfolk) or aim tediously.

What really sucks is that I thought Trog gifted ammo and he doesn't seem to anymore; I upp'ed my throwing in hopes that he'd give me some javelins, but no dice.

[Stormfox]

Spriggans get +2 Bows aptitude, but the fact that they can't equip longbows cramps the style a bit.

[tormodpwns]

You need 8 throwing to get ammo gifts.

[tasonir]

You need 8 throwing to get ammo gifts.

Or 8 crossbows, and 3 throwing, and he'll still give you javelins, even though I was trying to go crossbows But yes, trog gifts javelins.

[Dustbin]

Tengu

[crate]

DEAM is actually secretly pretty good imo. You can actually get cause fear/enslave castable before you die (and with DE apts/int even Slow is actually not bad) and then those spells should keep you alive for a while.

[smock]

For bows, aptitude and dexterity are largely substitutes in that both help you get to minimum delay.

Small species are most likely better off with slings because slings with bullets are better than bows but not better than longbows.