Claws 3 v. Blade Hands

[crow]

Started playing a troll transmuter. Kind of a shits and giggles thing. But I do have the option to use blade hands. The question is, do I want to? I don't really understand how unarmed damage is calculated, especially when you factor in claws 3. Thanks!

[Megabass]

Base damage with claws is 8, base damage with Blade Hands is 12, plus a bit extra from Dex/Str, if I recall correctly.

I'd say go ahead and use Blade Hands when you need to slap someone's shit hard.

[Dingo]

+2 unarmed damage per level of claws. Blade hands adds 12 + str/4 + dex/4. If you can take the spellcasting hit, blade hands all the way

[crow]

Thanks guys! Just what I needed.

Here's hoping he lives long enough to put that spell to good use!

[ElectricAlbatross]

Base damage with claws is 8,

To be exact, it's actually 9. The formula is 3 (unmutated base UC damage) + 2*3 (2 for each level of Claws). Point still stands: Blade Hands is worth it, although it does only marginally more damage than when used by a Sludge Elf.

Still, though, TrTm is way more than just a joke combo; it's actually pretty damn good. Trolls' natural strength, augmented by the occasional Beastly Appendage, is enough to let you survive until you get all of your spells castable (not as difficult as you might think), at which point you have a unarmed powerhouse supported by a set of unbelievably useful spells. Spider Form lets you run from most enemies, Blade Hands helps you when you need something to die FAST, and Ice Form gives you immunity to both cold and poison as well as letting you swim and beat up Hydras. Go Okawaru for even more smashing power, Makhleb for some ranged attack and escape options, or even Cheibriados to help you cast spells (and a direct +7.5 boost to Blade Hands base damage isn't bad either).

[tormodpwns]

Point still stands: Blade Hands is worth it, although it does only marginally more damage than when used by a Sludge Elf.

Trolls have massive STR. In the mid game, 24 strength gives +6 damage on top of Blade Hand's +12, and Dexterity probably gives another +3. Thats 21 damage over a base of 9.

[Zzz]

wait a minute claws stack with blade hands / ice form?

[cerebovssquire]

Yes to Ice Form (and Statue Form), no to Blade Hands.

[ElectricAlbatross]

Yes to Ice Form (and Statue Form), no to Blade Hands.

Claws do not stack with Ice Form. Your claws are replaced with "ice fists". This makes Ice Form essential to TrTm for killing hydras, because claws can slice off hydra heads and make them regenerate two more, like all non-flaming bladed weapons. (Claws do stack with Statue Form.)

Point still stands: Blade Hands is worth it, although it does only marginally more damage than when used by a Sludge Elf.

Trolls have massive STR. In the mid game, 24 strength gives +6 damage on top of Blade Hand's +12, and Dexterity probably gives another +3. Thats 21 damage over a base of 9.

I'm talking about differences between a troll using the spell and a sludge elf. A TrTm with 24 str and 10 dex will do 20.5 base damage with Blade Hands, whereas a SETm will do 18 with just his starting stats of 10 str and 14 dex. Since the full base damage is calculated by directly adding Unarmed Combat skill to those, the difference becomes relatively minor after you have a few UC levels.