I've had it up to HERE with 'dem Hill Giants >_<

[SchwaWarrior]

I'm really upset at Crawl lately. Three times in one night it's given me like 2 or 3 Hill Giants at the same time to deal with in the D:7 to 10 range.

Now, I do play Conjurer a lot, and when I play Conjurer it's hard-pressed, but doable, to rangle one with Mephitic Cloud and then either gun it down with the Slingshot (probably what I should do more often) or in melee with a venomous weapon while it's stumbling around, and normally I don't have more than like 10 turns tops to do this before it recovers from its confusion and I have to hope to God I don't miscast Mephitic when it's one tile away from me. o_o So, yeah, bit of a challenge, but I manage. And when there's two at a time I can confuse both of them, keep my distance, and cross my fingers that one of them whacks the other guy for me. It's awesome when it works.

But melee? Whole 'nother story. I get GROUND INTO THE EARTH when I'm playing a melee character. Doesn't matter what. If I don't have wands, Blink or Fear scrolls, and an escape route on hand, my cute and tender little ass is grilled and seasoned. If I take one on at half-health with a melee character I SOMETIMES kill it, but usually I'm dead in two hits, and it's basically a lucky win since I have to kill it quickly and hope my guy dodges its swings. I fare better if I'm packing a Blowgun and I pepper the thing as it closes the gap across the room. But that's not always an option, unless I play something like Sludge Elf Hunter which starts with a blowgun, I have to have stripped a Kobold off of his, and they don't always generate.

So what I'm asking the forum is, how do I reliably handle Hill Giants with a melee (non-caster) character? Any and all advice and pointers and whatnot is much appreciated.

Hope everyone had an awesome weekend, too. God bless~
--Schwa

[daggaz]

All I play so far is melee kobolds, and generally I find giants to be fairly delicious chunks of xp if played correctly:

You of course have either poison throwing darts, or a blowgun with poisonous needles, as you pick anything up like this in the early game. Poison those bastards from a distance (even curare if you have/found any), then switch to ranged. If you dont have any ranged poison abilities yet (possible), just start with ranged period. Range the crap out of them. Maybe you have a good offensive wand, use it (even ones with saves, giants dont save too well it seems). By the time the giant closes (and you of course led him away from the black and into a cleared area), it should be well down in health. Now you drink some pots, you've definitely IDd a bunch and hopefully you have a few ready. Invis, Might, Agility, and of course Rage are all very good. Even better if you have a rage amulet or artifact. Go to town with your best weapon, quaff a heal wounds if you get knocked down to half health or less.

If you are missing too much of this stuff, ie no pots, no ranged poison, no ammo, no rage, etc etc.. .then just skip the giant and come back later when you are stronger.

At higher levels, I dont even bother with any of this, just wade right in and start stabbing their kneecaps out. Course, kobolds hit 25+ evasion pretty quickly..

[bobross419]

As a TrMo I like to just hold down tab.

[thenewflesh]

You don't really have to kill them. Just run away. There's no way to reliably kill hill giants on D:7 without some wands, bunch of consumables or special ability (but I don't think that Hero would cut it, Finesse (if you happen to stumble upon Okawaru altar and amulet of faith on D:1 ) or Berserk should work).

[Confidence Interval]

As a TrMo I like to just hold down tab.

Holding down tab is not the solution to all of life's problems.

[bobross419]

As a TrMo I like to just hold down tab.

Holding down tab is not the solution to all of life's problems.

Sure it is. 1000 network device alerts come in at work? Just yell "MOAR TAB!" then go berzerk on your computer. Problem solved.

[TwilightPhoenix]

I find they're best handled by coming back to them later when you can cackle maniacally as they're helpless before your new found power. Revenge is a dish best served freshly butchered and eaten raw.

[Blade]

I find they're best handled by coming back to them later when you can cackle maniacally as they're helpless before your new found power. Revenge is a dish best served freshly butchered and eaten raw.

Or freshly butchered and left on the ground because really, why should you give them the honor of being useful?

[TwilightPhoenix]

Because I am now Near Starving.

[Grimm]

Holding down tab is not the solution to all of life's problems.

Holding down Tab: Crawl's alcohol.

[Confidence Interval]

Holding down tab is not the solution to all of life's problems.

Holding down Tab: Crawl's alcohol.

Although it occasionally made me unwell (in my callow youth) alcohol has never actually got me killed. Unlike Holding Down Tab.

[AtT]

Holding down tab is not the solution to all of life's problems.

Holding down Tab: Crawl's alcohol.

Although it occasionally made me unwell (in my callow youth) alcohol has never actually got me killed. Unlike Holding Down Tab.

What's tab?

Play casters

[SchwaWarrior]

Well thanks for the tips guys. Personally I would rather try and kill any enemy I see unless there's NO WAY I could win (for instance, if I stumble across Grinder and I don't have any spells or wands that would give me an advantage against him, and even then I'm probably risking it big o_o ah well), not just for the XP factor but also for the ease of mind that I performed a satisfactory sweep of the level.

daggaz's post inspires me greatly, seeing as how he plays frail Kobolds and does great with them against tough opponents like Giants. I'll shoot to try to be like that. Only difference is I'm more partial to Kenku than I am to Kobolds ahaha~

Also, what does the TAB button do? I've never used it. ^^;;

Cheers~

[AtT]

Well thanks for the tips guys. Personally I would rather try and kill any enemy I see unless there's NO WAY I could win

You will NEVER win Crawl this way. Seriously. Crawl throws a huge number of monsters at you that are very, very easy to escape, but very, very dangerous to fight. Hill giants are a perfect example.

He's right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiMaOmDtaYI is not the proper crawling attitude.

[betamin]

As a TrMo I like to just hold down tab.

Holding down tab is not the solution to all of life's problems.

Is more of a short term thing, if you're dating a girl and hold tab you rape her, so you just solved your problem but later some dude is gona tab you down in a cell.

[SchwaWarrior]

You will NEVER win Crawl this way. Seriously. Crawl throws a huge number of monsters at you that are very, very easy to escape, but very, very dangerous to fight. Hill giants are a perfect example.

He's right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiMaOmDtaYI is not the proper crawling attitude.

That's not the attitude I use. This is.

The more you tell me "no", the harder I hit back, until I break a hole through you and reach the heavens.

[bobross419]

As a TrMo I like to just hold down tab.

Holding down tab is not the solution to all of life's problems.

Is more of a short term thing, if you're dating a girl and hold tab you rape her, so you just solved your problem but later some dude is gona tab you down in a cell.

Situation - dude wants to tab you in prison.
Solution - Hold down tab

[AtT]

I'd tab a TrMo..

[zrn]

You will NEVER win Crawl this way. Seriously. Crawl throws a huge number of monsters at you that are very, very easy to escape, but very, very dangerous to fight. Hill giants are a perfect example.

He's right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiMaOmDtaYI is not the proper crawling attitude.

That's not the attitude I use. This is.

The more you tell me "no", the harder I hit back, until I break a hole through you and reach the heavens.

Your tab is the tab that will pierce the heavens!! GIGA... TAB... BREAKER!!!!!!!!!

[thenewflesh]

You thought Hill Giants on D:7 is bad? Now how about Unseen Horrors on D:6?

[bobross419]

Tab worked great for a Kobold room and 3 (yes 3 in .9) bee rooms so far on my TrBe. MOAR TAB!

[Baen]

First post! WOOOO!

I have meet a hill giant only once (new to the game) but I was able to kill it by spamming imps+ cloud.

also, what does tab do?

[bobross419]

also, what does tab do?

Auto-attack

[Grimm]

aka "The Suicide Key"

[bobross419]

aka "The Suicide Key"

Nah. TrBe has cleared Lair, Orc, Snake, D to V, and working on Swamp all with Tab!

[Confidence Interval]

aka "The Suicide Key"

Nah. TrBe has cleared Lair, Orc, Snake, D to V, and working on Swamp all with Tab!

I imagine that Tab has to be used with some judgement relatingto when to press it and when to run away instead. If you are up against an opponent you can most likely beat in melee then sure, press Tab. If you're up against a monster tougher than you then Tab, as noted, is likely to be the suicide key.

Or are you suggesting you can get through the whole game just by pressing "o" and Tab (with perhaps a little item and skill juggling alongside?

[bobross419]

So far, the majority of a 3 rune game seems tabbable. And when I say tab I mean mash and hold down the tab key.

[cerebovssquire]

Well, a robin account which automatically Tabs monsters when they come into view has never got past XL 9, DLVL 9, and this was on TrBe. Some strategy, at least, has to be involved.

55. braverobin the Ruffian (L9 TrBe), worshipper of Trog, slain by a giant toad on D:9

[bobross419]

Pre-buffs and pre-positioning are just about it. I do use throwing for runners so that I'm not tabbing across an entire level just to chase down one monster. There have been a handful of times where I had to bug out, but thats why I said "majority"

[bobross419]

Maybe a bot isn't the best way to test?

Pretty much just 'o' and tab here. The only time I had to stray from that was when there was a pond with a bunch of fish. I had to drag them back to land due to water's combat penalties.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.9.1-1-gec69250 character file.

Testes the Grappler (Troll Monk)                                                            Turns: 7372, Time: 00:18:10

HP  81/81        AC 10     Str 21      XL: 9   Next: 60%
MP   5/5         EV  8     Int  6      God: Makhleb [****..]
Gold 435         SH 31     Dex 15      Spells:  0 memorised, 10 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .      - Unarmed
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  O - +1 robe
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    j - +0 orc large shield
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    p - +1 wizard hat
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    e - +0 cloak
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (gloves unavailable)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    x - amulet of faith
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    y - ring "Xupsekam" {Hunger- Dam+2 Stlth++}
Gourmand  : +       Ctrl.Flight: .    u - +2 ring of protection

@: slightly resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy
A: unfitting armour, claws 3, berserk 1, carnivore 1, fast metabolism 3, gourmand, regeneration 2, saprovore 2, tough
skin 2, AC +1
a: Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major Destruction, Renounce Religion


You are on level 10 of the Dungeon.
You worship Makhleb.
Makhleb is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 11 of its levels.

You have collected 471 gold pieces.
You have spent 36 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 a - a +0 robe
 e - a +0 cloak (worn)
 j - a +0 orcish large shield (worn)
 p - a +1 wizard hat (worn)
 M - a +1 robe
 O - a +1 robe (worn)
Magical devices
 B - a wand of flame (8)
 E - a tapered glass wand
Comestibles
 b - 7 meat rations
 h - 3 pears
 n - 3 bread rations
 I - an apple
 K - a choko
Scrolls
 c - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 f - a scroll of blinking
 g - 7 scrolls of remove curse
 i - 2 scrolls of random uselessness
 l - a scroll of identify
 m - 3 scrolls of teleportation
 o - a scroll labeled CUIXIMP UXIU
 q - a scroll labeled NIAR TI THRIP
 t - 3 scrolls of detect curse
 A - a scroll labeled YNAFAZI THREEN
 L - a scroll labeled KHEACLIMIE {tried}
 N - a scroll labeled UZESSI WINKEFI {tried on jade ring}
 P - a scroll of fog
 Q - a scroll labeled GRAMPA LUACVUJ
 R - a scroll labeled QEIQER CEPPE
Jewellery
 r - a cursed ring of sustenance
 u - a +2 ring of protection (left hand)
 x - an amulet of faith (around neck)
 y - the ring "Xupsekam" (right hand) {Hunger- Dam+2 Stlth++}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of sustenance]
   
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+2).
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 z - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 G - an uncursed ring of fire
Potions
 d - 6 potions of healing
 w - 2 potions of speed
 C - a potion of heal wounds
 D - 2 potions of agility
 F - a potion of poison
 H - a fuming yellow potion
 J - 2 murky orange potions
Books
 k - a book of Maledictions   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Corona                             Hexes                        1
   Sure Blade                         Hexes/Charms                 2
   Ensorcelled Hibernation            Hexes/Ice                    2
   Confuse                            Hexes                        3
   Enslavement                        Hexes                        4
   Invisibility                       Hexes                        6
 s - a book of Flames   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Flame Tongue                       Conjuration/Fire             1
   Throw Flame                        Conjuration/Fire             2
   Inner Flame                        Hexes/Fire                   3
   Sticky Flame                       Conjuration/Fire             4
   Bolt of Magma                      Conjuration/Fire/Earth       5
   Fireball                           Conjuration/Fire             6
 v - a book of Power   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Teleport Other                     Translocation                3
   Iskenderun's Mystic Blast          Conjuration                  4
   Venom Bolt                         Conjuration/Poison           5
   Poisonous Cloud                    Conjuration/Poison/Air       5
   Iron Shot                          Conjuration/Earth            6
   Mass Confusion                     Hexes                        6
   Orb of Destruction                 Conjuration                  7


   Skills:
 + Level 3 Fighting
 + Level 3 Dodging
 - Level 1 Stealth
 - Level 1 Stabbing
 + Level 6 Shields
 - Level 1 Traps & Doors
 + Level 10 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 1 Spellcasting


You have 10 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (10/27)            Temple (1/1) D:5             Orc (0/4) D:8
  Lair: D:8-13     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
The Shining One
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin

Shops:
D:5: ?


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are too large for most types of armour.
You have claws for hands.
Your metabolism is lightning-fast.
You like to eat raw meat.
You heal very quickly.
You can eat rotten meat.
You are covered in fur (AC +1).
You have very tough skin (AC +2).
You tend to lose your temper in combat.
Your digestive system is specialised to digest meat.


Message History

No unsafe monster in view!
No unsafe monster in view!
No unsafe monster in view!
No unsafe monster in view!
No unsafe monster in view!
No unsafe monster in view!
You now have 435 gold pieces.
Things that are here:
a bow; 14 arrows
Done exploring.
Move the cursor to view the level map, or type ? for a list of commands.
Returning to the game...
Move the cursor to view the level map, or type ? for a list of commands.
Returning to the game...
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You climb downwards.
An electric eel comes into view.
Found a pear, a bread ration, a scroll of identify, 23 arrows and a scroll of remove curse.
An electric eel comes into view.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.

       ≈≈.
    ...≈≈....
   ...%≈≈...≈≈
  .....≈.....≈≈
 ...............
 .............≈.
 .......%....;≈.
............;≈≈..
........@.≈≈≈≈≈..
..?.........≈≈...
 ..........≈≈≈..
 ..........≈≈≈..
 ≈≈≈≈...........
  ≈≈≈≈.....(...
   ≈≈.........
    ........?
       ...


You can see 2 electric eels.

Vanquished Creatures
  Pikel (D:9)
  Prince Ribbit (D:4)
  Edmund (D:9)
  3 ice beasts
  A sky beast (D:9)
  A phantom (D:9)
  2 orc warriors
  5 centaurs
  3 giant goldfish (D:8)
  4 ogres
  2 big kobolds
  4 imps
  A hound (D:4)
  2 quasits
  Crazy Yiuf (D:2)
  8 orc priests
  A big fish (D:8)
  A hound skeleton (D:8)
  2 iguanas
  6 worker ants
  An orc wizard (D:9)
  2 scorpions
  2 jellies
  2 mummies
  7 snakes
  3 giant mites
  A snake skeleton (D:5)
  2 worms
  A giant eyeball (D:4)
  3 oozes
  23 orcs
  8 giant cockroaches
  16 goblins
  15 hobgoblins
  29 jackals
  3 quokkas
  17 bats
  6 giant newts
  2 halflings (D:5)
  A jackal zombie (D:5)
  20 kobolds
  14 rats
  2 small snakes
  A bush (D:5)
  2 fungi (D:2)
  A toadstool (D:7)
234 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A giant frog (D:9)
  A snake (D:7)
  A hobgoblin (D:9)
  A halfling (D:5)
  4 jackals
  10 toadstools
18 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 252 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Testes, the Troll Monk, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 20/20 MP: 0/0
   410 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 28/28 MP: 0/0
  1182 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  1182 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 35/35 MP: 1/1
  1459 | D:2      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  1530 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 44/44 MP: 1/1
  1663 | D:2      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  1673 | D:2      | Defeated Crazy Yiuf
  2225 | D:3      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  2785 | D:4      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
  2791 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 50/50 MP: 1/1
  2869 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
  2869 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  3102 | D:4      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  3112 | D:4      | Defeated Prince Ribbit
  3112 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Stabbing
  3112 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  3112 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 29/58 MP: 2/2
  3431 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3550 | D:5      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  3604 | D:5      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  3631 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Traps & Doors
  3631 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 62/65 MP: 2/2
  3711 | D:5      | Noticed a big kobold
  3725 | D:5      | Defeated a big kobold
  3862 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  3868 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  3915 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Makhleb the Destroyer
  3950 | D:5      | Got a faintly glowing turquoise ring
  3951 | D:5      | Identified the ring "Xupsekam" (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
  3957 | D:5      | Found Muil Nanlimp's Magic Scroll Shop.
  3966 | D:5      | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 36 gold pieces
  4230 | D:6      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  4311 | D:6      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  4331 | D:6      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  4381 | D:6      | Acquired Makhleb's first power
  4656 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
  4748 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 74/74 MP: 4/4
  4926 | D:6      | You fall through a shaft!
  5044 | D:8      | Gained mutation: Your flesh is cold resistant.
  5044 | D:8      | Gained mutation: You are agile (Dex +1).
  5044 | D:8      | Gained mutation: Your digestive system is specialised to digest meat.
  5053 | D:8      | Lost mutation: Your flesh is cold resistant.
  5053 | D:8      | Gained mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat.
  5053 | D:8      | Lost mutation: You are agile (Dex +1).
  5385 | D:8      | Acquired Makhleb's second power
  5532 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  5556 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  5826 | D:8      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  6026 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 15/80 MP: 5/5
  6245 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
  6318 | D:7      | Acquired Makhleb's third power
  6793 | D:7      | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
  6913 | D:9      | Noticed Edmund
  6927 | D:9      | Defeated Edmund
  6982 | D:9      | Noticed Pikel
  6988 | D:9      | Defeated Pikel
  7097 | D:9      | Acquired Makhleb's fourth power
  7371 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon

[bobross419]

Not quite how probabilities work (see my SpAs thread), but I understand your point. The above character made it down to Lair:3 where he finally had to do something other than mash tab due to a hydra almost killing him. Knowing what that 100th encounter is is part of the moar tab strategy. I know that an XL:10 Troll with only Unarmed:11 won't kill a hydra right now. Its really the only single monster that doesn't fall to the moar tab strategy for most of a 3 rune game.

Again, I'll refer back to the use of "majority".

[SchwaWarrior]

I like to play casters because it's more engaging than "hold down tab and win" (even if you don't necessarily "win"). But, I REALLY love to play Melee-casters because it's unconventional and I am a fan of unconventional. I've been playing less and less straight-melee lately because I find it two-dimensional, although it becomes amazing when I worship Xom (as does anything, ever, with Xom), but that's just about the only "remedy" to playing a melee character and enjoying it.

Oh, that and Blink. I like the Warper class because I can play a Melee/Ranged character and use Blink as my only spell; I killed three Hill Giants in a group one time by doing that with a Bow and Poisoned Arrows, it was AMAZING.

(Speaking of Poisoned Arrows: I hate, HATE, the unique Nessos. He loves to show up at the worst possible times and one-shot me from across the map. o__o The only thing I hate more than Nessos is Rupert because he'll kill you no matter what by HOLDING DOWN TAB ON YOU AHAHAH)

[TehDruid]

I hate, HATE, the unique Nessos. He loves to show up at the worst possible times and one-shot me from across the map. o__o The only thing I hate more than Nessos is Rupert because he'll kill you no matter what by HOLDING DOWN TAB ON YOU AHAHAH)

Yup, Nessos is a tough cookie If you can't run for cover and lure him to a corner for a lot of early to mid XL, as I also find most centaurs/yaktaurs/giants that throw giant rocks to be. Unless you have deflect missiles and/or a shield (of reflection, if possible ) and good shield skill, of course. Rupert on the other hand I find extremely easy when I have an amulet of clarity and decent gear.

[SchwaWarrior]

Nessos is suceptable to Confusion, so Mephitic Cloud works, but the one problem is his range is better than yours. You either have to survive like 6 initial attacks just to get within firing range (and even more if you Miscast or the Confusion doesn't kick in right away), or get behind a corner and make him come closer in order to hit you and then blast him. Normally I can make that happen. One time he spawned in the Orc Mines and there were hardly any such places. x_x I was lucky he hurt himself in confusion (lol like in Pokemon) and died in one hit when I finally landed the Cloud.

Rupert is just impossible. X'D Okay, I beat him ONCE, but the fact is that mages do not handle Beserkers well, and Rupert really enjoys spawning with crazy weapons (I KNOW they're crazy because Ashenzari tells me EXACTLY how crazy they are @_@). The Confusion isn't even an issue, because again, Ashenzari, which means Confusion immunity. The issue is the MOMENT he's adjacent to me I've got three turns to live because he's all like WHAP WHAP WHAP GAME AV4R (and yes, neither one of these times I had any Blink Scrolls left, and one of the times I had the spell Blink but it 'ported me on the other side of Rupert, still adjacent, twice in a row).

As for Cyclops: I have an easier time with them than I do with Hill Giants for some reason. When I get in melee range, they're easier to take down. Either they don't hit as hard as Hill Giants do, or I'm just bizarrely lucky.

[AtT]

Do not EVER engage Nessos in the presence of other powerful uniques/monsters because he will bring them back. You'll end up fighting whatever you killed twice.

[Tiber]

Luring Nessos is a risky proposition since he can always blink away. You can always try polymorphing him. I make no guarantees that he won't turn into something bad (Based on my own experiences and testing in wiz mode I've turned him into a cyclops (x2), a giant orange brain, a crocodile, a giant slug, a boulder beetle, an ettin, a trapdoor spider, and a merfolk), but he'll drop the bow, and even if he picks it up he loses his cheating double-branded arrows.

He's also pretty easy for an EE. Just petrify and LRD him for some easy exp.

[SchwaWarrior]

He's also pretty easy for an EE. Just petrify and LRD him for some easy exp.

o_o You know what, this sounds exactly like something I'd see in Mortal Kombat. Don't you think?

MORTALLLL KOMMMBAAAAT

[TwilightPhoenix]

"Finish him!"

*BOOM!*

"Earth Elementalist, wins."

"Flawless victory."


Everything you mentioned polymorphing Nessos into sounds less dangerous. Except possibly the Ettin.

[Stormfox]

Even the ettin loses the centaur speed advantage, though it has more HD if I'm not mistaken so your Mephitic just became that much less effective.

[SchwaWarrior]

GUYS.

I just figured something out.

Stabbing a sleeping Hill Giant with a character I thought was powerful,

is a bad idea.

^__^;;