Questions I should know the answer to at this point


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Halls Hopper

Posts: 74

Joined: Monday, 23rd April 2018, 04:59

Post Friday, 26th March 2021, 14:10

Questions I should know the answer to at this point

Shields. I know on one hand, just swap a kite and a tower shield out to see which gives the best total (AC/EV/SH) but given the effects on attack and from confusion, is that the best metric or do you wait to higher skill levels to swap to tower?

Range weapons. A +2 sling using bullets at min delay has a ratio of 11/6 or almost two. A +2 hand crossbow at min delay has a ratio of 14/10 or much lower than the sling. Somehow, I feel I should be using the crossbow anyway .. ..

Given how slow Trolls progress with weapons, would you ever use anything other than unarmed combat?

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1131

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Friday, 26th March 2021, 17:04

Re: Questions I should know the answer to at this point

Aiming the best total of the three defences is not a good metric, regardless of the shield penalties.
Shield also slows your attack speed until you have a certain level of skill, which is quite high for tower shields (for normal races). Towars shield slows you more than kite shield. Tower also gives a lot more spellcasting penalties.
All of these means that it is quite hard to give definite advice, it is better to ask for a specific character from those who know the game from their hearth.

You calculated the 11 (for sling) and 14 (for hand crossbow) by adding together the base damage (9 or 12, respectively) and the enchantment. Be aware that they are not the same: the base damage is mulitplied based on your skills and attributes, but the enchantment does not. 1 point of base damage worths more than 1 enchantement.

If you train shields, it does not make much sense to train crossbows. The hand crossbow is very weak later, and the rest is twohanded. While the better sling (fustibalus) is still one handed.

For a troll melee weapon skills almost never worth it, unarmed combat is always better (exclude some insane early artefact weapon maybe). This is not because of the aptitute difference, but because they have claws 3 mutation. Throwing can also be a good offensive skill for a Troll.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 74

Joined: Monday, 23rd April 2018, 04:59

Post Friday, 26th March 2021, 20:36

Re: Questions I should know the answer to at this point

Given I am currently playing a Gnoll Wanderer, so I do not pick what I train in. I am going to use a shield, so I can equip either a sling or a hand crossbow. A sling, a fustibalus, or a hand crossbow .. ..

A related question. I am using a +9 flaming scimitar. I also have access to two scrolls of branding. Would you use them hoping to get a better brand? I am about to hit Vault 3, so not many hyrdas left. Would love freeze, but what other brand would be better for a Gnoll at this point?

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1131

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Friday, 26th March 2021, 21:01

Re: Questions I should know the answer to at this point

I personally would not rebrand it - there are no strictly better brands to generate but there is a good chance to get a worse one. A scimitar is a little it week at Vault 3. As a gnoll you could use any demon weapon or eveningstar/double sword if you insist using a shield - none has generated so far?

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andrew, petercordia

Blades Runner

Posts: 616

Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19

Post Wednesday, 2nd June 2021, 05:45

Re: Questions I should know the answer to at this point

Well, I have some vastly different opinions. A tower shield is usually a good thing to use unless you have excellent brands on a smaller shield. The amount it can boost your shields is quite high even without a lot of skill, while sacrificing evasion - which isn't as useful.

The primary exception besides a good brand on a smaller shield that I wouldn't use a tower on finding it is if it would stop me from casting something I need to cast. However, I generally find it true that it's almost always better to train melee/armour/shields before even attempting to cast any spells other than low-level utility stuff, and then a lot of games you simply never find the gear or even need spells once you've trained what you need.

As for ranged weapons, in my opinion the hand crossbow is the best of them.I rarely use two-handed ranged weapons unless it's "sniper", or before I have found a good shield, or it's very early in the game and I'm not even training them and just taking advantage of some nice drop for awhile to supplement my tactics. It's not true at all that a hand-crossbow isn't useful late game. In fact, I just finished a game where I killed off a huge majority of vault 5 with one. You don't *just* want to use it for everything, but swap between it and a melee weapon strategically. Level 9-12 skill maximum should be sufficient for most games to add quite a bit of overall effectiveness. Would I don a tower shield at lowish skill and use a hand-crossbow? Heck yeah I would.

Throwing is theoretically awesome, and I suppose it's pretty good, but personally I'd still rather train for a hand-crossbow. That's a long discussion why though, but I could at least point to a couple things like, thrown weapons can't have properties from an artefact launcher..

I'd also use a shield on a troll using unarmed damage. I don't have formulas at hand to back up why precisely, but I have enough games under my belt to tell you it's more reliable. The jist here is that defence > offense.

I use broad axes with trolls as well as unarmed. Sometimes I use a combination of both. Unarmed being how you survive early/mid game or on extra tough targets for one-on-one fights, and broad axes being more helpful later on when you're constantly getting surrounded and managing god-based life on kill tactics.

Well, that's enough for now :D Good luck.

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