What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Gozag)


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Mines Malingerer

Posts: 36

Joined: Saturday, 10th December 2016, 15:38

Post Saturday, 18th April 2020, 14:50

What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Gozag)

I've never went past 5 runes with a spellcaster, my only 15 rune wins/attempts have been with melee type characters. I've currently got a Mummy fire elementalist of Gozag going and I plan to go extended, but I'm totally unfamiliar with high level spells and how spellcasters deal with late-game threats.

What's the general strategy for an extended game for spellcasters? Do I invest more heavily into a second type of spell damage (Air for example)? What are some must-have spells I should aim for? How important is a weapon skill? What about evocations?


  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.25-a0-796-gd415a3ffb0 (webtiles) character file.

Scuka the Scorcher (Mummy Fire Elementalist)       Turns: 58388, Time: 01:37:20

Health: 122/122    AC: 10    Str: 13    XL:     16   Next: 36%
Magic:  50/50      EV: 20    Int: 21    God:    Gozag
Gold:   7336       SH: 10    Dex: 19    Spells: 16/40 levels left

rFire    . . .     SeeInvis .   a - +7 eveningstar (flame)
rCold    + . .     Gourm    .   F - +0 buckler
rNeg     + + +     Faith    .   H - +2 robe {rF+}
rPois    ∞         Spirit   .   l - +2 helmet
rElec    .         Reflect  +   x - +0 cloak of Riekerae {*Contam rPois Str+2 Slay+4}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   Q - +1 pair of gloves
MR       ++...                  (no boots)
Stlth    ++........             T - +4 amulet of reflection
HPRegen  0.30/turn              r - ring of magical power
MPRegen  0.32/turn              R - ring of Taxtelup {MP+9 Int+2 Dex+4}

@: no status effects
A: no food or potions, fire vulnerability, cold resistance 1, negative energy
resistance 3, torment resistance, unbreathing, in touch with death 1
a: Potion Petition, Call Merchant, Bribe Branch, Renounce Religion


You are on level 15 of the Dungeon.
You worship Gozag.
Gozag is greatly pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 24 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ossuary, Gauntlet and Ice Cave.

You have collected 10114 gold pieces.
You have spent 1543 gold pieces at shops.
You have paid 1235 gold pieces to Gozag.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +7 eveningstar of flaming (weapon)
 b - the +8 hunting sling of Overwhelming Force {flame, Str+3 Dex+2}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 10 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It causes projectiles fired from it to burn those they strike, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents.
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
 P - a +2 demon whip of pain
Missiles
 m - 200 sling bullets
 B - 21 javelins
 E - 37 boomerangs (quivered)
 J - 620 arrows
Armour
 l - a +2 helmet (worn)
 x - the +0 cloak of Riekerae (worn) {*Contam rPois Str+2 Slay+4}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+4).
   It protects you from poison.
   It causes magical contamination when unequipped.
   
   If you remove this armour, your AC will decrease by 1 (10 -> 9).
 y - a +3 leather armour of cold resistance
 F - a +0 buckler (worn)
 H - a +2 robe of fire resistance (worn)
 O - a +2 robe of the Archmagi
 Q - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
Magical Staves
 t - an uncursed staff of death
 I - an uncursed staff of cold
 W - an uncursed staff of wizardry
Jewellery
 r - a ring of magical power (left hand)
 v - the ring of Simuo {Ice rPois Str-4 Int+4 SInv}
   (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of ice]
   
   It enhances your ice magic.
   It affects your strength (-4).
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
   It lets you see invisible.
 D - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 R - the ring of Taxtelup (right hand) {MP+9 Int+2 Dex+4}
   (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of magical power]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
 T - a +4 amulet of reflection (around neck)
 U - an uncursed ring of ice
 X - an uncursed ring of flight
Wands
 p - a wand of digging (23)
 u - a wand of random effects (16)
 z - a wand of polymorph (16)
 C - a wand of clouds (5)
 K - a wand of acid (17)
 L - a wand of disintegration (9)
 M - a wand of paralysis (11)
 N - a wand of enslavement (11)
 S - a wand of flame (63)
Scrolls
 c - 8 scrolls of teleportation
 d - 6 scrolls of blinking
 e - 5 scrolls of enchant weapon
 f - 6 scrolls of magic mapping
 g - 3 scrolls of immolation
 h - 4 scrolls of amnesia
 i - 2 scrolls of vulnerability
 k - 7 scrolls of remove curse
 n - 2 scrolls of summoning
 o - 4 scrolls of fog
 q - 6 scrolls of fear
 s - 6 scrolls of enchant armour
 A - 7 scrolls of identify
 G - a scroll of torment
 Y - a scroll of acquirement
Miscellaneous
 j - a phial of floods
 w - a box of beasts


   Skills:
 - Level 10.0 Fighting
 + Level 6.4 Maces & Flails
 + Level 9.3 Dodging
 - Level 1.5 Stealth
 - Level 4.0 Shields
 + Level 12.8 Spellcasting
 - Level 10.0 Conjurations
 + Level 1.5 Translocations
 * Level 15.0 Fire Magic
 - Level 5.0 Air Magic


You have 16 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Foxfire               Conj/Fire      ####         1%          1    N/A
b - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      ######..     1%          3    N/A
c - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      ######..     1%          4    N/A
d - Fireball              Conj/Fire      ######....   1%          5    N/A
e - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          4%          2    N/A
f - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ####....     1%          3    N/A
g - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         1%          1    N/A
h - Lightning Bolt        Conj/Air       #####.....   6%          5    N/A

Your spell library contains the following spells:

 Spells                   Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
 Inner Flame              Hex/Fire       #####...     1%          3    N/A
 Static Discharge         Conj/Air       #####...     1%          3    N/A
 Stone Arrow              Conj/Erth      ####..       1%          3    N/A
 Corpse Rot               Necr/Air       N/A          2%          2    N/A
 Hailstorm                Conj/Ice       ####....     6%          4    N/A
 Call Imp                 Summ           ##......     8%          2    N/A
 Ensorcelled Hibernation  Hex/Ice        ##....       8%          2    N/A
 Slow                     Hex            ##......     8%          2    N/A
 Recall                   Summ/Tloc      N/A          11%         3    N/A
 Irradiate                Conj/Tmut      ####......   17%         5    N/A
 Summon Ice Beast         Ice/Summ       ##......     43%         4    N/A
 Ignition                 Fire           ######....   54%         8    N/A
 Freezing Cloud           Conj/Ice/Air   ####......   67%         6    N/A
 Summon Forest            Summ/Tloc      ###.......   69%         5    N/A
 Aura of Abjuration       Summ           ##........   80%         5    N/A
 Metabolic Englaciation   Hex/Ice        ##........   80%         5    N/A
 Summon Demon             Summ           ##........   80%         5    N/A
 Summon Mana Viper        Hex/Summ       ##......     80%         5    N/A
 Eringya's Noxious Bog    Tmut/Pois      ##........   100%        6    N/A
 Ozocubu's Refrigeration  Ice            ##........   100%        6    N/A
 Shadow Creatures         Summ           N/A          100%        6    N/A
 Simulacrum               Ice/Necr       ###.......   100%        6    N/A
 Summon Hydra             Summ           ##........   100%        7    N/A
 Shatter                  Erth           ##........   100%        9    N/A
 Tornado                  Air            ####......   100%        9    N/A
 Ice Form                 Ice/Tmut       Unusable     N/A         4    N/A
 Hydra Form               Tmut           Unusable     N/A         6    N/A
 Statue Form              Tmut/Erth      Unusable     N/A         6    N/A
 Dragon Form              Tmut           Unusable     N/A         7    N/A


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:4            Lair (6/6) D:9
 Shoals (0/4) Lair:2        Snake (0/4) Lair:3        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (2/2) D:10            Elf (0/3) Orc:2        Vaults (0/5) D:13
 Depths (0/5) D:15        Ossuary (visited)           IceCv (visited)
Gauntlet (visited)       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4 ?=   D:6 (   D:9 (   D:10 *   Orc:2 ?[?}(

Portals:
Pandemonium: Orc:2

Annotations:
Lair:3 3 runed translucent doors, Feuff's ghost, journeyman MiFi
Lair:4 3 runed translucent doors, WasteTime4's ghost, journeyman OpEE; jt's
ghost, journeyman NaWr
Lair:5 1 runed translucent door


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You do not eat or drink.
Your flesh is vulnerable to fire.
You are immune to poison.
Your flesh is cold resistant. (rC+)
You are immune to negative energy. (rN+++)
You are immune to unholy pain and torment.
You can survive without breathing.
You are in touch with the powers of death.


Message History

Your +7 eveningstar of flaming bursts into flame!
a - a +7 eveningstar of flaming (weapon)
Your +7 eveningstar of flaming stops flaming.
You feel stronger. You feel agile.
The +8 hunting sling of Overwhelming Force {flame, Str+3 Dex+2} bursts into
flame!
b - the +8 hunting sling of Overwhelming Force (weapon) {flame, Str+3 Dex+2}
The +8 hunting sling of Overwhelming Force {flame, Str+3 Dex+2} stops flaming.
Your +7 eveningstar of flaming bursts into flame!
a - a +7 eveningstar of flaming (weapon)
You're wearing all the rings you can. Remove which one? (? for menu, Esc to
quit)
You remove your ring of magical power. You feel your magic capacity decrease.
X - a ring of flight (left hand)
You're wearing all the rings you can. Remove which one? (? for menu, Esc to
quit)
You remove your ring of flight.
You feel your magic capacity increase.
r - a ring of magical power (left hand)
As you read the scroll of identify, it crumbles to dust.
Y - a scroll of acquirement
You start resting.
Magic restored.

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.....#.......#.....#...#......###
.....#.......#.....#...#......#..
.....#.......#.....#...#......#..
.....#.......#..@..#...#......#'#
.....#..##..###.|.###..#.........
.....#..#######[..###..#.........
.....#...#.........#...'.........
.....'...#.........#...#.........
)....################'###.##....#
................................#
.)..............................#
...)..............)....≈≈#≈≈....'


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Rupert (Lair:3)
  A fire giant (D:15)
  A frost giant (IceCv)
  Snorg (D:11)
  The ghost of psellion the Basher, a journeyman MiGl of Ru (D:11)
  5 two-headed ogres
  2 centaur warriors
  Erica (D:9)
  3 catoblepae (Lair:6)
  5 hydras
  2 ogre magi
  19 death yaks
  5 orc high priests (Orc:2)
  Urug (Lair:5)
  Sonja (Lair:6)
  A sixfirhy (Orc:2)
  3 unseen horrors
  2 gelid demonspawn (Orc:2)
  A deep elf archer (D:13)
  2 infernal demonspawn (Orc:2)
  A wizard (D:14)
  7 orc knights
  Pikel (D:8)
  2 deep elf magi (D:13)
  A wolf spider zombie (D:14)
  An oklob plant (Lair:5)
  6 manticores
  7 ugly things
  7 orc sorcerers (Orc:2)
  2 cyclopes
  28 elephants
  Maurice (Orc:2)
  An ice statue (IceCv)
  Psyche (D:11)
  5 black mambas
  A smoke demon (Orc:2)
  2 orange demons (Orc:2)
  A gargoyle (D:13)
  A torpor snail (Lair:6)
  8 spiny frogs
  An efreet (D:12)
  Maggie (D:9)
  6 rime drakes
  5 komodo dragons
  3 yaktaurs (D:13)
  A freezing wraith (D:14)
  An ice devil (Orc:2)
  9 trolls
  The ghost of Hasart the Chiller, a novice DEIE (D:4)
  3 meliai (D:15)
  A polar bear (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  7 hippogriffs
  10 polar bears
  10 dream sheep
  13 slime creatures
  12 blink frogs
  A harpy skeleton (D:15)
  A snapping turtle (Lair:2)
  A spriggan (D:8)
  A ynoxinul (Orc:2)
  2 shadows
  2 vampires
  82 yaks
  A wraith (D:14)
  A steam dragon (D:10)
  9 basilisks
  4 wyverns
  A chaos spawn (Orc:2)
  3 hungry ghosts
  12 vampire mosquitoes
  A soldier ant (D:13)
  8 wargs
  An acid dragon (D:12)
  7 porcupines
  11 water moccasins
  34 orc warriors
  A black bear (D:8)
  An eye of draining (D:12)
  5 sky beasts
  A slave (D:8)
  4 phantoms
  22 ogres
  25 wolves
  3 ice beasts
  A wolf (shapeshifter) (D:14)
  22 centaurs
  11 crocodiles
  4 big kobolds
  16 bullfrogs
  A gnoll sergeant (D:10)
  A water moccasin zombie (D:8)
  14 scorpions
  5 killer bees (D:7)
  12 wights
  An electric eel (Lair:6)
  5 howler monkeys
  6 crimson imps
  2 bullfrog zombies (D:9)
  5 centaur zombies
  6 jellies
  3 hounds
  A human zombie (Ossuary)
  33 orc priests
  A bullfrog skeleton (D:10)
  4 centaur skeletons
  20 orc wizards
  7 iguanas
  8 worker ants
  A killer bee zombie (D:8)
  A big kobold zombie (Ossuary)
  A hound skeleton (D:5)
  3 mummies (Ossuary)
  Robin (D:3)
  7 adders
  3 gnolls (D:10)
  4 scorpion zombies (Ossuary)
  2 shadow imps
  4 worms
  3 dart slugs
  5 leopard geckos
  87 orcs
  8 bats
  4 giant cockroaches
  2 gnoll zombies (Ossuary)
  14 goblins
  13 hobgoblins
  10 jackals
  21 kobolds
  7 quokkas
  2 ball pythons
  3 goblin zombies (Ossuary)
  4 hobgoblin zombies (Ossuary)
  A jackal skeleton (D:7)
  A kobold zombie (Ossuary)
  3 rats
  A butterfly (Lair:2)
876 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A centaur warrior (D:13)
  A polar bear (IceCv)
  2 yaks (IceCv)
  A slave (D:8)
  2 centaurs
  2 scorpions
  A gnoll zombie (Ossuary)
  A hobgoblin zombie (Ossuary)
  A bush (D:9)
  3235 foxfires
  13 fungi
  24 plants
3284 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 4160 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Scuka the Mummy Fire Elementalist began the quest for the
                  | Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 13/13 MP: 4/4
   346 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Conjurations
   444 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 19/19 MP: 1/5
  1172 | D:2      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  1175 | D:2      | Reached skill level 3 in Fire Magic
  1175 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/24 MP: 2/7
  1764 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame
  2084 | D:2      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  2165 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/30 MP: 1/9
  3319 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 35/35 MP: 2/11
  3424 | D:3      | Learned a level 4 spell: Sticky Flame
  3458 | D:3      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  3478 | D:3      | You fall into a shaft and drop 3 floors!
  3595 | D:6      | Reached skill level 4 in Fire Magic
  3742 | D:6      | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
  3762 | D:6      | Found Natas's Antique Weapon Boutique.
  3768 | D:6      | Got a heavy robe
  3774 | D:6      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  3919 | D:6      | Identified the +2 robe of Haxko {Dex+3} (You found it on
                  | level 6 of the Dungeon)
  3947 | D:6      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 41/41 MP: 7/12
  4098 | D:6      | Found an ornate altar of the Wu Jian Council.
  4150 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4369 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic
  4453 | D:5      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  4461 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  4707 | Ossuary  | Reached XP level 7. HP: 33/46 MP: 6/13
  5650 | Ossuary  | Reached skill level 6 in Fire Magic
  7025 | D:4      | Found Keawe's Jewellery Shop.
  7059 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  7066 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  7595 | D:3      | Noticed Robin
  7600 | D:3      | Killed Robin
  7909 | D:4      | Found Setwaph's Magic Scroll Shop.
  7917 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of identify for 20 gold pieces
  7917 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of fog for 20 gold pieces
  8096 | D:4      | Found a runed translucent gate.
  8097 | D:4      | Found a runed translucent gate.
  8097 | D:4      | Found a runed translucent gate.
  8099 | D:4      | Noticed Hasart's ghost (novice DEIE)
  8191 | D:4      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 52/52 MP: 5/14
  8645 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Fire Magic
  9037 | D:6      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  9257 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
  9332 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Fire Magic
  9737 | D:7      | Got a crystal dire flail
  9742 | D:7      | Got a flickering copper ring
  9941 | D:7      | Identified the +4 dire flail "Laah" {venom, MR+} (You found
                  | it on level 7 of the Dungeon)
  9956 | D:7      | Identified the ring of Simuo {Ice rPois Str-4 Int+4 SInv}
                  | (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon)
 10000 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 41/57 MP: 12/15
 10226 | D:7      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
 10250 | D:7      | Became a worshipper of Gozag Ym Sagoz the Greedy
 10309 | D:7      | Noticed a troll
 10463 | D:7      | Killed a troll
 10666 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Fire Magic
 11508 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
 12220 | D:7      | Learned a level 5 spell: Fireball
 12234 | D:8      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
 12295 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
 12615 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 67/67 MP: 17/17
 12656 | D:8      | Noticed Pikel
 12672 | D:8      | Killed Pikel
 13869 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Fire Magic
 14083 | D:9      | Noticed Erica
 14572 | D:9      | Noticed Maggie
 15114 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 15235 | D:9      | Killed Maggie
 15380 | D:9      | Found Asawn's Weapon Boutique.
 15855 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 15887 | D:9      | Killed Erica
 15887 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 69/78 MP: 13/21
 16605 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 17663 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 17933 | D:10     | Identified the cursed +0 hand axe of Duklei Tude {freeze,
                  | rF+ Stlth+}
 17962 | D:10     | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
 17966 | D:10     | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud
 18015 | D:10     | Learned a level 1 spell: Magic Dart
 18487 | D:10     | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 18524 | D:10     | Found Qurin's Assorted Antiques.
 18538 | D:10     | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 105 gold pieces
 18538 | D:10     | Bought a pitted hunting sling for 227 gold pieces
 18538 | D:10     | Bought a scroll of identify for 70 gold pieces
 18540 | D:10     | Identified the +8 hunting sling of Overwhelming Force
                  | {flame, Str+3 Dex+2} (You bought it in a shop on level 10
                  | of the Dungeon)
 19168 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 19624 | D:9      | Reached skill level 11 in Fire Magic
 19787 | Lair:1   | Noticed a five-headed hydra
 19819 | Lair:1   | Killed a five-headed hydra
 20318 | Lair:1   | Got a sapphire-encrusted leather armour
 20329 | Lair:1   | Identified the cursed +1 leather armour "Rocymuar" {rPois
                  | rC- Dex+6} (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
 20530 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 20649 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 78/87 MP: 22/24
 21055 | Lair:2   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 21068 | Lair:2   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 21839 | Lair:2   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 22608 | Lair:3   | Found a gate leading to a gauntlet.
 22608 | Lair:3   | Noticed Rupert
 22638 | Lair:3   | Killed Rupert
 22956 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 22958 | Gauntlet | Entered a Gauntlet
 22958 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 22965 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 22965 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 22971 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 22971 | Gauntlet | Found a runed translucent door.
 22977 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 22980 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 22985 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 22992 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 22996 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 22998 | Gauntlet | Noticed a death yak
 22999 | Gauntlet | Noticed a death yak
 23000 | Gauntlet | Noticed a death yak
 23003 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 23008 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 23012 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 23017 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 23023 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 23196 | Lair:3   | Found a runed translucent gate.
 23196 | Lair:3   | Found a runed translucent gate.
 23197 | Lair:3   | Found a runed translucent gate.
 23198 | Lair:3   | Noticed a ten-headed hydra
 23198 | Lair:3   | Noticed an 11-headed hydra
 23198 | Lair:3   | Noticed Feuff's ghost (journeyman MiFi)
 23457 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 12 in Fire Magic
 25564 | Lair:4   | Found a runed translucent gate.
 25564 | Lair:4   | Found a runed translucent gate.
 25564 | Lair:4   | Found a runed translucent gate.
 25580 | Lair:4   | Noticed jt's ghost (journeyman NaWr)
 25580 | Lair:4   | Noticed WasteTime4's ghost (journeyman OpEE)
 25733 | Lair:4   | Gained mutation: You are in touch with the powers of death.
                  | [Mummy growth]
 25733 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 96/96 MP: 26/26
 26908 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
 27829 | Lair:5   | Noticed Urug
 27850 | Lair:5   | Killed Urug
 28273 | Lair:5   | Found a runed translucent door.
 28273 | Lair:5   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 28273 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 28273 | Lair:5   | Noticed an acid blob
 28367 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 29069 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 29113 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 1 in Maces & Flails
 30641 | Lair:6   | Noticed Sonja
 30664 | Lair:6   | Killed Sonja
 30901 | Lair:6   | Got a faintly humming cloak
 30907 | Lair:6   | Identified the +0 cloak of Riekerae {*Contam rPois Str+2
                  | Slay+4} (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 31930 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 105/105 MP: 20/28
 31956 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 13 in Fire Magic
 33567 | Lair:6   | Learned a level 5 spell: Lightning Bolt
 36403 | D:4      | Killed Hasart's ghost
 36658 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 36658 | Orc:1    | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 37604 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 37612 | Orc:2    | Found Muggut's Weapon Boutique.
 37631 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 38853 | Orc:2    | Found Noytocok's Magic Scroll Emporium.
 38854 | Orc:2    | Found Elesedde's Magic Scroll Shoppe.
 38933 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of magic mapping for 59 gold pieces
 38933 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 51 gold pieces
 38933 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 51 gold pieces
 38933 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 34 gold pieces
 38933 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of summoning for 161 gold pieces
 38935 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of blinking for 82 gold pieces
 38935 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of blinking for 82 gold pieces
 38968 | Orc:2    | Noticed Maurice
 38975 | Orc:2    | Killed Maurice
 39670 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations
 39670 | Orc:2    | Reached XP level 15. HP: 76/113 MP: 21/30
 41564 | Orc:2    | Found Bezyci's Gadget Shop.
 41564 | Orc:2    | Found Ranyst's Antique Armour Boutique.
 41564 | Orc:2    | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium.
 41686 | Orc:2    | Bought a pair of glowing gloves for 292 gold pieces
 42477 | D:11     | Got a scintillating turquoise ring
 42479 | D:11     | Identified the ring of Taxtelup {MP+9 Int+2 Dex+4} (You
                  | found it on level 11 of the Dungeon)
 42865 | D:11     | Noticed Snorg
 42872 | D:11     | Killed Snorg
 42872 | D:11     | Reached skill level 5 in Air Magic
 43088 | D:11     | Noticed Psyche
 43093 | D:11     | Killed Psyche
 43448 | D:11     | Found a runed translucent door.
 43459 | D:11     | Noticed psellion's ghost (journeyman MiGl)
 43887 | Orc:2    | Bought a wand of iceblast (13) for 289 gold pieces
 44214 | D:11     | Killed psellion's ghost
 44795 | D:12     | Reached skill level 14 in Fire Magic
 46201 | D:13     | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails
 46222 | D:13     | Found a frozen archway.
 46229 | IceCv    | Entered an ice cave
 47266 | IceCv    | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 48427 | IceCv    | Noticed a frost giant
 48443 | IceCv    | Killed a frost giant
 49318 | IceCv    | Identified the Collected Works on the Glacier
 50817 | D:13     | HP: 1/115 [something (26)]
 52532 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 52920 | D:14     | Reached XP level 16. HP: 95/122 MP: 29/32
 55986 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 56547 | D:15     | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations
 57173 | D:15     | Reached skill level 15 in Fire Magic
 57659 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 58360 | D:15     | Identified a scroll of acquirement

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------------+-----
Conjurations   |  1           2  3  4  5  6  7     8  9 10       | 10.0
Spellcasting   |     3     4              5  6  8  9 10 11 12    | 12.8
Fire Magic     |     3        4  5  6  8  9 10 11 12    13 14 15 | 15.0
Fighting       |                          2  4  5  7  8  9 10    | 10.0
Dodging        |                          2  4  5  6  7     9    |  9.3
Shields        |                             2  3  4             |  4.0
Air Magic      |                                      3  4  5    |  5.0
Maces & Flails |                                      2  4  5  6 |  6.4
Translocations |                                               1 |  1.5
Stealth        |                                                 |  1.5

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |     5 |       |       |       |       |       ||     5
       Whip              |    23 |       |       |       |       |       ||    23
       Dagger            |       |    39 |    64 |       |       |       ||   103
       Dire flail        |       |       |    49 |    59 |       |       ||   108
       Scimitar          |       |       |       |    61 |    20 |       ||    81
       Eveningstar       |       |       |       |       |   288 |       ||   288
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |    76 |    77 ||   153
 Fire: Hunting sling     |       |       |       |     3 |     4 |       ||     7
 Cast: Foxfire           |    85 |   101 |   319 |   657 |   704 |   140 ||  2006
       Sticky Flame      |       |     1 |    13 |    85 |   234 |    45 ||   378
       Conjure Flame     |       |       |     3 |     9 |    11 |     2 ||    25
       Fireball          |       |       |       |    13 |   179 |    45 ||   237
       Blink             |       |       |       |     4 |    12 |       ||    16
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |       |       |     3 |    20 |     2 ||    25
       Lightning Bolt    |       |       |       |       |    18 |    14 ||    32
Invok: Potion Petition   |       |       |       |       |     5 |     1 ||     6
Evoke: Phial of floods   |       |       |       |     1 |     1 |       ||     2
       Wand              |       |       |       |     2 |    20 |     1 ||    23
  Use: Scroll            |       |     6 |     2 |     6 |    11 |     2 ||    27
 Stab: Sleeping          |       |       |     1 |       |     1 |     1 ||     3
       Distracted        |       |       |       |       |     3 |       ||     3
       Confused          |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3
Armor: Robe              |     4 |    13 |    28 |    34 |     1 |     1 ||    81
       Leather armour    |       |     1 |    23 |    53 |   198 |    22 ||   297
Dodge: Dodged            |    43 |    27 |   113 |   190 |   550 |   107 ||  1030
Block: Buckler           |       |       |       |    26 |   242 |    82 ||   350
       Reflection        |       |       |       |       |    11 |     8 ||    19
Rpst.: Scimitar          |       |       |       |    35 |     9 |       ||    44

Table legend:
 A = Non-vault XP
 B = Vault XP
 C = Vault XP percentage of total XP
 D = Non-vault monster count
 E = Vault monster count
 F = Vault count percentage of total count

                 A         B        C        D         E        F   
            +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------
      Total |  108006 |   68243 |  38.7 |     603 |     275 |  31.3
            +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------
        D:1 |      34 |       0 |   0.0 |      18 |       0 |   0.0
        D:2 |     148 |       0 |   0.0 |      29 |       0 |   0.0
        D:3 |      70 |      38 |  35.2 |      13 |      13 |  50.0
        D:4 |     190 |     373 |  66.3 |       9 |       4 |  30.8
        D:5 |     236 |       0 |   0.0 |       7 |       0 |   0.0
        D:6 |     316 |       0 |   0.0 |       8 |       0 |   0.0
        D:7 |    1374 |    1321 |  49.0 |      31 |      15 |  32.6
        D:8 |    2170 |     827 |  27.6 |      26 |       2 |   7.1
        D:9 |    2719 |    3224 |  54.2 |      29 |      16 |  35.6
       D:10 |    2985 |     531 |  15.1 |      37 |      14 |  27.5
       D:11 |    3088 |    2722 |  46.9 |      21 |       4 |  16.0
       D:12 |    6389 |       0 |   0.0 |      40 |       0 |   0.0
       D:13 |    8836 |    7601 |  46.2 |      46 |      18 |  28.1
       D:14 |   12133 |       0 |   0.0 |      64 |       0 |   0.0
       D:15 |    9113 |    1835 |  16.8 |      39 |       1 |   2.5
     Lair:1 |    5052 |       0 |   0.0 |      22 |       0 |   0.0
     Lair:2 |    4573 |    1030 |  18.4 |      20 |       4 |  16.7
     Lair:3 |    3627 |    5100 |  58.4 |      16 |      11 |  40.7
     Lair:4 |    4641 |       0 |   0.0 |      20 |       0 |   0.0
     Lair:5 |   18269 |     827 |   4.3 |      34 |       1 |   2.9
     Lair:6 |   16392 |   11656 |  41.6 |      38 |      26 |  40.6
      Orc:1 |    2219 |       0 |   0.0 |      12 |       0 |   0.0
      Orc:2 |    3432 |   18326 |  84.2 |      24 |      67 |  73.6
    Ossuary |       0 |     731 | 100.0 |       0 |      29 | 100.0
      IceCv |       0 |   12101 | 100.0 |       0 |      50 | 100.0
            +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1004

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Saturday, 18th April 2020, 16:38

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

some inspiration for you:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6589&p=88146&hilit=muFE+muWz#p88146
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=18246&p=249565&hilit=muFE#p249565
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=26312&p=338389&hilit=+mummy#p338389

I tend to build all my extended spellcasters the same way: extreme burst damage building up towards a level 9 spell, translocation (importantly PoG & Aportation), evocations (mostly for the staff of energy), optionally hexes & summons, and a shield and 12 staves skill.
As a mummy you have to be a bit more focused in your skills, if you want to get those high-level spells up and running.
You need to use a staff of energy because you can't rest as long in extended.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 368

Joined: Thursday, 11th April 2013, 21:07

Post Saturday, 18th April 2020, 22:26

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

Generalized Crawl advice is difficult to give without misleading newer players, because the best answer is often "It depends on your character and what items + spells have generated so far in your game."

Attempts to do this anyway tend to lead to the proliferation of bad advice like that on the chaosforge wiki.

I will now attempt to do this anyway~ :D

Scuka wrote:What's the general strategy for an extended game for spellcasters? Do I invest more heavily into a second type of spell damage (Air for example)? What are some must-have spells I should aim for? How important is a weapon skill? What about evocations?

1) Kill things quickly.
2) This is usually a bad idea.*
3) Try to aim for higher-level spells in the spell school that you're using to kill things. Try to get a staff enhancer for the spell school that you're using to kill things. Try to get lots of Int.
4) Weapon skill gives you the option to fight without using MP. Having options is good. Demon weapons, or a lajatang, are strong low-investment options. You can also carry a staff of energy, take an MP-on-kill god, or just skill a little bit of Staves and whack things with your enhancer staff and some Slaying.
5) Evocations skill tends to be more useful earlygame than in extended.

* Ziggurats go faster if you have some AOE.

If you intend to do 15 runes then stop , you can usually keep doing whatever got you through Zot.
(Even the age-old TSO crypt swap is often a bad idea. God wrath tends to be more dangerous than the monsters you're facing!)

† And not multiple zigs, or 27 all skills, or whatever.

If I were piloting your character: Given your existing skills, stats, and making no assumptions about what items might generate, I'd probably continue using Fire Magic. Mu apts are not good, you have a lot of Fire Magic skill already, and you have Ignition available for later if you want it.


Re: Generalized "spellcasting in extended" advice:
Spoiler: show
The thing about spellcasting in DCSS is that it has been balanced around the assumption of XP scarcity. This works okay-ish in a 3 rune game.

However, XP scarcity goes away the further you progress through a game of DCSS; spell balance in extended tends to break down into "Whatever you can bring online that will deal the most damage so you can end things and maybe get some HP/MP back on kill." If a given spell works with your character apts and you can bring it online soon, or if it's particularly efficient per MP or per aut, or if it can deal damage at the edge of LOS, then that's even better.


Generally-good spells and spell-like things: Tornado, fire storm, shatter, glaciate, ignition, heavy invocations depending on god choice, disc of storms in very old versions, Makhleb, Necromancy, dragon form, bolts of javelin. There are lots of things I'm not listing, you can test spells in any offline Crawl game by entering wizmode with '&' , memorizing the spell with '!' , and setting your relevant skills to 27 with 'S' .

Probably some of ebering's newly reformed spells are nice too, but I haven't played enough recent Crawl to fairly compare these. Absolute Zero sounds like it would be good for ending hell/panlords(/TRJ?) inside of a 15 rune game.


disclaimer: When I play DCSS, I usually play Muscle Wizard.

DCSS spellcasting lies on this weird inflection point where it simultaneously makes the game much easier and *also* makes the game more annoying to play because Crawl's non-melee interfaces have historically been so unpleasant to use. I find the game more fun to play by eschewing all of that. Take this post with as much salt as you feel appropriate.

For this message the author Implojin has received thanks: 2
duvessa, nago

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2173

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Sunday, 19th April 2020, 11:00

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

Ultraviolent4 with a mummy of Gozag, going into extended and beyond:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJsj9nB ... 2whzbOh5if

Blades Runner

Posts: 616

Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19

Post Sunday, 3rd May 2020, 08:12

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

For MuFE of Gozag:

1) Build STR (not Int) until you have a balance of STR/Int
2) Use your FE spells initially to kill stuff, but don't necessarily train spells much beyond a certain point initially
3) Become a decent fighter in dragon scales armour, shield, broad axe/mace - mummies want Vampiric weaons

Once you have a balanced character a few things will happen, first you'll have gold - so after you've exhausted searching for shops, start buying them. Armour shops are the most important. Get solid defenses and balanced resists, don't try to be a nuker straight away. It's possible, but not advised for reliability. With good stats (STR/INT) and dragon armour, with any luck, your first big spells you want to try and get online is Ignition. The other most useful spell that is reasonable to cast to supplement Ignition is iron shot. A little necromancy for the spell vampiric drain (to be used AFTER you take some damage fighting melee) can go a long ways for early/mid game.

It all sounds so easy now right, well it isn't, mainly because of a couple things, mummy aptitudes will drag you down, and you can't quaff healing potions to help with emergency situations, so you'll burn through your blink scrolls quickly until you die unless you're a superb player and lucky. What's the solution? There are two big survival mechanisms for late game mummies, and the strongest one of all is to bite the bullet and worship Lugonu so you can escape into the Abyss. The big crap with this is that means no Makhleb, so you have to take more time whittling things down, but that's still okay as a mummy. The second big crap with this is that you'll get mutated a bunch and have death by stat drain, so you have to be extra cautious to escape back out of the abyss before you take too much stat drain.

The other tool for mummies to survive is controlled blink, but it's not that reliable since it doesn't work in all places. It's also a bit tough to get online.

My last piece of advice for a mummy in extended is that you're still handicapped even though you're immune to torment, because the nice folks who gimped your mummy all the way up to the point to where you normally would have a great advantage (and previously did) screwed you over again badly with dispel undead enabled fiends and demonspawn. Don't underestimate the killing potential of dispel undead on you. Unfortunately, you need yet even more XP to be able to cope with it. The very best solution is... Haunt + any form of smite targeted attack or just more Haunt. You've got to block LOS. It's easier than avoiding torment which screws everyone else, but not by an enormous margin.

A mummy's life just isn't that easy all around. Without dispel undead on monsters, and stat drain from crummy creatures like wretched stars (unless that's changed since I last checked), you could have a pretty strong end-game, but alas, it stays pretty difficult the whole way through. That's okay, I guess, it's an advanced race after-all.

Good luck

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Post Sunday, 3rd May 2020, 09:26

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

It is hard to argue with success, and it is even harder to deny that Svendre is extremely successful in Crawl. However, I always have the feeling that he'd be even more successful with reasonably built characters instead of these weird ones.

What I especially don't understand in the above advice:
1. Why would you want more strength? The above mummy has 13 strength, that is enough for any dragon armour except golden and storm, and you certainly don't want those for a blaster mage.
2. Speaking of which: all this talk about dragon armour is baffling. How would you get any dragon armour at all? Scales don't drop with Gozag. Finding one in a shop is really unlikely. The best chance is probably if the Enchantress generates in the game, and her faerie dragon scales don't suck.
3. Recommending Lugonu is weird. Gozag is a lot better for a mummy than Lugonu.
4. The order of recommended spells: first ignition, then iron shot, then vampiric draining. Um... what?

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Post Sunday, 3rd May 2020, 18:46

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

Extended is kind of annoying now but I do have two recent 15 runes with mummies. One used Chei and cast ignition in gold scales, but we'll set that oddness aside. This was a MuIE build https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/Th ... 071349.txt.

Gozag is fine, you just take whatever the best artifact armor that doesn't ruin your magic you can find/buy. I do like Kiku or Makhleb the most for extended when good gods aren't options though. Heal on kill is always nice, but Kiku's ability to dump 50 zombies on every major hell/pan lord encounter and guaranteed access to high level necro spells that are actually relevant with extended XP are both nice.

I went with hexes this run, and simply used vulnerability scrolls + discord to wreck W:2 and W:3. But blaster magic is fine too, ignition in particular is good there. OOD, crystal spear, and other irresistible magic is nice to have in your pocket for other areas of extended. Or you can just dump 50 high-end zombies on big fights and throw mana vipers on other non-popcorn, whatever works.

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Post Monday, 4th May 2020, 03:55

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

Magipi wrote:It is hard to argue with success, and it is even harder to deny that Svendre is extremely successful in Crawl. However, I always have the feeling that he'd be even more successful with reasonably built characters instead of these weird ones.

What I especially don't understand in the above advice:
1. Why would you want more strength? The above mummy has 13 strength, that is enough for any dragon armour except golden and storm, and you certainly don't want those for a blaster mage.
2. Speaking of which: all this talk about dragon armour is baffling. How would you get any dragon armour at all? Scales don't drop with Gozag. Finding one in a shop is really unlikely. The best chance is probably if the Enchantress generates in the game, and her faerie dragon scales don't suck.
3. Recommending Lugonu is weird. Gozag is a lot better for a mummy than Lugonu.
4. The order of recommended spells: first ignition, then iron shot, then vampiric draining. Um... what?


1. You want strength initially because you're going to be doing a fair amount of melee/ranged style damage until mid-game (at least). Why? Because you need time to find good armour and time to train it. If you start training magic straight away for higher level spells, you're left more vulnerable in the meantime to going splat. The strength helps with spell success chance, melee damage output, shields.. helps lower evasion penalties from wearing heavy armour, so it actually helps you to evade in a sense too. I find that for endgame, 30 STR 30 INT strikes a good balance. It's hard to get of course, just giving a guideline. That perhaps still isn't a good explanation: what I'm trying to convey is, you need good defenses, good defenses require armour, armour requires strength, strength gets the job done for you while you're still setting the stage for casting later. You're removing the penalties in advance before you spend the XP on casting (beyond initial low level spells), while simultaneously creating a viable base for when spells won't work for lots of reasons. Melee is important enough that you don't want to stop at 13 strength and all the rest in INT, so take the additional benefits upfront when your character is still weak, and pump INT later. Ugh, sorry I feel like I'm not explaining this concept very well. It's like training EV before AC. If you want EV, train AC first until you get a point of AC, THEN train EV, because it'll require less XP to get a bump in EV since you'll have lowered your EV penalty (by some amount) first.
2) You're right that it's tough to get dragon scales with Gozag. A few points about this, first of all Gozag is your opening god that you use to gear up with via shops. After a point, you'll have exhausted all the main areas that contain shops. You want to save gold and not buy shops from Gozag if you can help it. There's some balance to be struck. Once you're fairly sure there aren't any free shops around still, spend the rest of your gold on items and more shops. You reach a point where shops are too expensive to buy (just not worth it), that's when it's time to ditch Gozag. Ok about dragon scales specifically: the places you're most likely to find them (other than as loot on the floor which you can in elves etc.) is in Depths5, and Vault5. You can save those levels for after you switch off Gozag. You can also use a dirty technique I sometimes use which is to intentionally not kill the dragons you want hides from. Let them chase you into a room, blink, or just run away (they'll use breath), then close the door on them and mark it as no-open. You come back and kill all the dragons you locked up later if you still didn't get the hides you wanted before you're done with Gozag. This is still just sort of the gist.
3) Gozag is better for mummy, to start out, until you run out of shops and shops are too expensive to buy... see above. Lugonu is the hardcore escape option for mummies after that point. When you're getting beat down and you're out of blink scrolls or blink doesn't really work, and you've got just a couple turns left to live or so you figure, using Lugonu's ability to get into the abyss is about one of the most powerful responses there is. Some people may think, what? Escape to the abyss? Well, yes, you're using this tactic at a stage of the game where the abyss is not the real threat anymore. It's not all that likely you enter fully surrounded... it's a way to get a breather, sort of like using Zin's ability. Note: I do not enjoy playing this way, it lends to being more tedious because no life on kill from Mak, but, as I said, it's a very powerful way to compensate if you're struggling to keep your mummies alive through extended.
4) The order I listed the spells wasn't really anything to do with the order you'd train them. What you train and when depends what spells you find and what gear you find, always. If I had my choice in a mummy game what spells I'd like, in what order, it would be vampiric drain first (low level so you can wear armour ok), blink, then maybe nothing for some time. I do like some low level spells, sand blast, shock, air strike.. you really have to play it by ear. Fire+Earth is a nice combo for the AOE of fire plus the irresistible damage spells, so you can drop ignition on piles of mummies and iron shot orbs of fire to soften them up. Since brilliance was kicked down to not affect spell success rate, I'm not sure if I would really recommend targeting for ignition anymore though, it could be tough as a level 8 to get it online with everything else you need, by the time that it would actually be useful. I've had a tough time deciding where the most bang for the buck is now-a-days with high end spells. Using brilliance to kick-start getting xp to get higher level spells was actually a fairly key strategy. I think nerfing brilliance potions, for me, made a fairly large impact in further sealing the doom of spell casting, even as a late game add-on to already well developed characters. It just seems easier to get all 15 runes before you can even cast the host of higher-level spells you'd want on top of a strong base. Maybe just stick to a set like blink, lesser beckoning, aura of abjuration and haunt (if you're feeling quite casty) and call it a day. It's a little easier to get hybrids going on some other races besides mummy due to the aptitudes so all this advice is of course, about mummies. If you're a gargoyle, well gee, build a strong melee guy with shatter, no sweat.

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Post Monday, 4th May 2020, 06:34

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

svendre wrote:(...)first of all Gozag is your opening god that you use to gear up with via shops. After a point, you'll have exhausted all the main areas that contain shops. You want to save gold and not buy shops from Gozag if you can help it. There's some balance to be struck. Once you're fairly sure there aren't any free shops around still, spend the rest of your gold on items and more shops. You reach a point where shops are too expensive to buy (just not worth it), that's when it's time to ditch Gozag.

This is a terrible idea. As I said, Gozag is much better for a mummy than Lugonu. The main benefit is not shops, they are only a side bonus, the main thing is potion petition and bribe. I think you can bribe even the Tomb.
As an amusing aside, your advice sounded suspiciously like a real game, so I checked it, an yeah it is. Gozag to Lugonu, just as you described, and the action table indeed shows 0 potion petition and 0 bribe. I am out of words at this point, this is just too weird.
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/svend ... 211813.txt

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Post Monday, 4th May 2020, 07:04

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

You can bribe Tomb, yes. You'd need a lot of dosh considering the large numbers of strong stuff, but by then you probably have it.

Lugonu's actually not a bad option either. Not worth switching from Gozag, but corruption and self-banish escape are both pretty useful in tomb.

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Post Saturday, 9th May 2020, 21:25

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

Magipi wrote:
svendre wrote:(...)first of all Gozag is your opening god that you use to gear up with via shops. After a point, you'll have exhausted all the main areas that contain shops. You want to save gold and not buy shops from Gozag if you can help it. There's some balance to be struck. Once you're fairly sure there aren't any free shops around still, spend the rest of your gold on items and more shops. You reach a point where shops are too expensive to buy (just not worth it), that's when it's time to ditch Gozag.

This is a terrible idea. As I said, Gozag is much better for a mummy than Lugonu. The main benefit is not shops, they are only a side bonus, the main thing is potion petition and bribe. I think you can bribe even the Tomb.
As an amusing aside, your advice sounded suspiciously like a real game, so I checked it, an yeah it is. Gozag to Lugonu, just as you described, and the action table indeed shows 0 potion petition and 0 bribe. I am out of words at this point, this is just too weird.
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/svend ... 211813.txt


Yeah, it's such a terrible idea - I just finished that mummy game with 15 runes, and you're still asking how to do it.

There were several occasions where if I had kept Gozag, that guy would be dead. Not almost dead, not maybe dead, not I could've avoided it dead, just DEAD. But, since I switched to Lugonu before those fights, on several occasions I successfully reset my health by using escape to the abyss. One healing potion + others from gozag NO WAY would have been enough. Now I don't know if taking Makhleb (the other sound option) would have made the difference or not instead of having Lugonu, that I'll never know, but I can also tell you that at least a couple occasions, the problem wasn't being overrun with gobs of monsters, but stuff like a couple hell sentinels throwing hellfire. Mak wouldn't have been so useful in those situations since it was already kill or be killed and I started the fight at full health. Sometimes you're lucky and you squash monsters like that and it seems like nothing. But, other times you might miss your swings or do poor damage just a few too many times and they activate hellfire just a few too many times in a row. Those are the times when you're going to die. These are the situations where Zin or Lugonu are more likely to save your butt. You can win because you live to fight another day. Once your probability of winning goes down to a certain point, you just punt and reset the fight.

The main use for Gozag is gearing up, not potion petition. If you're needing to use potion petition so many times that it becomes the main feature of the god, then you're slipping behind. If instead, your gold is used for gearing up to take you to a point where you don't even wind up needing to use potion petition (except maybe in a few rare cases), then you're making progress. The same applies for bribery imo. Using it may make a branch easier, but unless you're doing a quick game (not extended), you're better off applying the gold to gearing up, and not giving up a bunch of XP to partially damaged creatures (damage you didn't deliver). That's another can of worms to discuss, but I'm just going to say for anyone who listens to what I have to say--don't believe the nonsense about losing XP doesn't matter. The game gets harder as you progress, and you want to stay with or ahead of the difficulty curve, not fall behind it.

By the way, that game wasn't in-progress when I first posted. It's actually that I posted the advice, then ate my own dog food immediately afterwards. It wasn't coincidental at all.

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Post Monday, 11th May 2020, 07:26

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

Interesting point about Lucy's strong escape tools - which Mu lack.

However, the thing that baffles me is "gozag's shop to gear up". I've played a good amount of Gozag games, and in most of them I've got shit. I can't really understand how consider that a viable strategy - unless adding the caveat "if the first four shop are shit, quit the game and roll again".

Sure, rarely the first shop opened has an awesome artefact that win the game by itself, but that's like saying: the main benefit of choosing Oka isn't heroism, are the the gift that gear you up.
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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Post Monday, 11th May 2020, 15:25

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

It looks like svendre is good enough to do the 1st part of the game without god powers, so he might as well do whatever gives him the best equipment, which just happens to be using Gozag for shops. Based on my experience I can easily see Gozag giving better equipment than Oka.
I can understand how you could go without god power, but it sounds really tedious.

BTW svendre, can you truly not see a way you could have survived those dangerous situations with Gozag, by playing differently in the turns leading up to those moments? Bribe Branch, Potion Petition, or just different tactics? It seems you are a good player, and some other good players can win 15 rune Mu^Gozags.

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Post Monday, 11th May 2020, 23:10

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

petercordia wrote:It looks like svendre is good enough to do the 1st part of the game without god powers, so he might as well do whatever gives him the best equipment, which just happens to be using Gozag for shops. Based on my experience I can easily see Gozag giving better equipment than Oka.
I can understand how you could go without god power, but it sounds really tedious.

BTW svendre, can you truly not see a way you could have survived those dangerous situations with Gozag, by playing differently in the turns leading up to those moments? Bribe Branch, Potion Petition, or just different tactics? It seems you are a good player, and some other good players can win 15 rune Mu^Gozags.


I suppose you're right that not utilizing the lower hanging fruit god powers earlier on, in favor of longer term gains does have it's moments of extra difficulty. For me, I think it's just that "the game", after having played it so much has become more of a pursuit of trying to be somewhat of a purist in terms of not giving up an inch to deviate from what I think would be a really cool run. It's akin to wanting to hit the jackpot rather than taking a safer, slower route. I'm not quite sure I would characterize it as tedious though. If I played more three rune games, and played more for speed, it could be an entirely different set of challenges where doing anything/everything you can in the moment just to survive another turn of fast descending was being a purist (versus wanting a high powered end-game character.) I can acknowledge that different styles of play can have different sets of advantages depending on the overall objective. Specifically with extended games, which this thread was stated to be about, I do see a relation between playing more conservatively in the beginning/mid game making things easier and more reliable for the late game. Is it more tedious to conserve early on so that you can play more freely later on? That, I think isn't a cut and dry answer. Some of the creatures later on seem a lot more challenging that most of the early creatures though.

To answer your question about could I have survived those situations: I really don't know. If you know what got you into hot water, you can theorize plenty about how you could have avoided it with 20/20 hindsight. But since you don't have that future-vision during a game, you can stumble into problems. I'll bring up a specific example though, for the sake of analysis:

*Keep in mind, you don't always get unlucky combinations in every game, or even necessarily usually - so pointing to any other game of winning isn't quite an all encompassing answer to say you could-have been fine doing X instead of Y. Clearly, there are many players who could win a 15 rune game with a mummy without even a god and playing recklessly just for fun, and sure, skill counts for probabilities.

I was running around in hell, level 7 of the iron city of dis. I was for the most part whittling the level down in a fairly safe manner, when I came across a hell sentinel, not particularly expected, but not particularly surprised. Though I had a few tools for ranged, for the most part, I was oriented for melee. Throughout the game I'd been smashing stuff including hell sentinels in a couple hits even, no big deal. This particular one however, I wound up missing it or just not hurting it much, and it started rapidly taking me down with successive rounds of hellfire, to which there was no defense. Sorry I don't remember all the exact details, but at some point another hell sentinel got in on the action. At this point I started thinking about escape options. Blink could have just got me killed bouncing me into worse locations, controlled blink scrolls (which I had) were made uncontrolled, so would've been as effective as a normal blink. Teleport scrolls could have landed me in the same hot water, or worse. I've actually had them move me a few spaces before only to be finished off. If i had gozag, I could have in the best case gotten a healing potion, maybe a curing potion, haste... but, I've also had times where potion petition had no heal wounds at all! Even if I got those best case scenarios, a couple hell sentinels could make short work of a healing potion, leaving you close to where you began, or worse, dead. Summons wouldn't necessarily have saved me from taking more hellfire. Fog scrolls are a very strong response (fog+blink can be even more amazing) I know I would have considered (plus running away), but they don't always work out quickly enough depending on where you are. What else..... there wasn't much else. I suppose death's door could be one good option, but I did not have it memorized nor do I recall if it was in the game at that point. You're also pretty vulnerable when you come out of that, a hell effect could just kill you randomly with low HP, so I consider it like a little better than a blink. That leaves, what could I have done differently in advance. The answer, with future-vision, plenty! But, that's not really fair.

Taking a serious look at what I could have possibly done, there are some options, though if you want to talk about tedious games, some of this stuff would be ridiculous. The first and strongest possibility is that if I had played so conservatively that I focused on making noise throughout the level, while clinging to the stairs, and resting a million turns on it if needed until I had stair danced every potentially dangerous creature to death, and ran 7 levels back down again for each one. This runs the risk of hell effects resulting in your death for all of the delays, but, all in all probably could have theoretically been safer since once you're out of hell, you could use a death's door like tactic to just get away, leave the vestibule and reset the fight (without risk of hell effects killing you). I'll do that if the entrance fight goes really badly and I don't want to die, but we're talking pretty hardcore cheese tactics, and not a lot of fun (for me anyhow).

The next strategy, potentially safer than how I played involves making sure you're covered in summons at ALL times, and performing repeated ordering them to retreat ahead of you to pull aggressive monsters out and lure them back to stairs. Mummy could have done this. Again, it wouldn't be without risk, but yeah, I can honestly say that I think I could have played in this manner and have been safer. But again to keep this all in context, I would still have to actually kill the hell sentinel(s), and if my offense failed while they pummeled hellfire rapidly enough, all this mucking around would really accomplish would be to possibly more easily reset the fight. I suppose with enough summoning via Haunt, and being incredibly retreaty and ultra-paranoid, you could progress more carefully while still killing stuff without always stair dancing.

Ranged weapons could have kited stuff to death if played carefully enough. Combine with summons order to retreat ahead of you and portal projectile, you could lure hellfire to hit your summons while you take stuff out from long range. Sure there are other ways I could have built the character and played. I wasn't built for that in this particular game however, and to say that if I were built that way would have been a guarantee of success is to ignore all the situations where my melee capabilities may have served me better than a ranged capability, so, there is somewhat of a factor of inherent unfairness to say if I had been built another way to deal with this specific enemy/time/location, the game outcome would have been assured to be better.

Long story short, is there any way I could have played Gozag and survived those situations, truthfully, yes. I know enough cheesy BS like things mentioned above (and more) to pull it off. Would I actually recommend it to someone? Probably not. Not unless the player was just getting kicks out of gaming the system. There are still ways to do it, and I'm not going to cover every cheesy tactic I know here and now. But, in answering yes I could have, I would still say that it wouldn't have been mainly attributed to continued worshiping of Gozag over Lugonu. I could have been worshipping any god and improved my odds of survival if I played the most conservative of tactics. It's just that I was able to play more reasonably and still survive with Lugonu.

Anyhow, thanks for the built-in compliments as well. I do really like dungeon crawl, and it's not my intention to be combative here on the forums about the game. There is a lot of interesting depth to it, and interesting things to discuss about it. Certainly not all people agree on everything, and that's okay. If anyone finds my rambling on about my experiences with the game useful or interesting, that's enough for me. I'm surely not right about everything, but I have some insights that don't always make obvious sense. I can say some things I've learned about the game didn't strike me as being good ideas before I tried some of them, and gave them time to be more fully play tested.
Last edited by svendre on Tuesday, 12th May 2020, 12:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Tuesday, 12th May 2020, 09:12

Re: What's the strategy for extended spellcaster (MuFE of Go

svendre wrote:I suppose you're right that not utilizing the lower hanging fruit god powers earlier on, in favor of longer term gains does have it's moments of extra difficulty. For me, I think it's just that "the game", after having played it so much has become more of a pursuit of trying to be somewhat of a purist in terms of not giving up an inch to deviate from what I think would be a really cool run. It's akin to wanting to hit the jackpot rather than taking a safer, slower route. I'm not quite sure I would characterize it as tedious though. If I played more three rune games, and played more for speed, it could be an entirely different set of challenges where doing anything/everything you can in the moment just to survive another turn of fast descending was being a purist (versus wanting a high powered end-game character.) I can acknowledge that different styles of play can have different sets of advantages depending on the overall objective. Specifically with extended games, which this thread was stated to be about, I do see a relation between playing more conservatively in the beginning/mid game making things easier and more reliable for the late game. Is it more tedious to conserve early on so that you can play more freely later on? That, I think isn't a cut and dry answer. Some of the creatures later on seem a lot more challenging that most of the early creatures though.
...


Very detailed answer, and serves to highlight the inherent differences in deity choice. I would also add onto this - there doesn't seem to be a lot of talk in this thread about having to deal with less danger under Gozag than Lugonu. In my experience, having an abundant gold supply (from minimal use of Petition or Bribe) gives passive damage mitigation through "distracted by gold" mechanic. I don't know if anything in the game is outright immune, and having even one turn of otherwise dangerous enemies tripping out on imagined wealth has saved my chars. Being able to quaff, read, or just walk away in peace is an incredible benefit in extended.
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