Troll


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Mines Malingerer

Posts: 39

Joined: Monday, 23rd April 2018, 04:59

Post Monday, 27th January 2020, 18:36

Troll

Trying out Troll, but can not figure out "Claws" and way people use late in the game. Seems the limit is 9damge/0.5delay, no proc, so sort of underwhelming.

As for skilling, I skilled unarmed/fighting till unarmed in 6, then added shield/armor/dodge. When I picked a god needing invocation, plan to skill that up to 8, and then switch to throwing.

That being said, what am i missing on unarmed combat, and what is the best way to play with skills on a troll melee?

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6303

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Monday, 27th January 2020, 20:20

Re: Troll

You're missing out on the fact that weapon skill adds to melee damage, for weapons it increases the damage done by a percentage of the weapon's base damage (this is why a larger base damage weapon with a smaller enchantment is usually better at moderate skill). For unarmed, it adds directly to the base damage of your attack. Troll claws are one of the best weapons in the game at Unarmed skill 27 (Better than any regular two handed weapon, and can be used with a shield, with only a small loss in DPS).

Also FWIW fighting additionally increases damage by a percentage of your base weapon damage (as does strength)

Note that a top tier maximally enchanted two handed weapon with a decent brand is *nearly* as good as troll claws with 27 unarmed, the difference isn't massive, but you start the game with troll claws, no worrying about finding/enchanting such a thing.
Last edited by Siegurt on Tuesday, 28th January 2020, 00:29, edited 1 time in total.
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vt

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 28

Joined: Saturday, 7th December 2019, 17:58

Post Monday, 27th January 2020, 23:49

Re: Troll

Seems the limit is 9damge/0.5delay, no proc, so sort of underwhelming.


I don't understand how you came to this conclusion. You can definitely get to more than 9 dam per 5 aut with a troll using unarmed combat. Am I misunderstanding you?

Edit: ah nevermind, I understand what you were thinking (and I see I was not reading Siegurt's reply carefully enough, to boot).

In the interest of having a post that adds some value, I'll say that I did some highly unsystematic fight simulating. With some approximately mid-game stats (level 15, 28 str, 15 fighting, 20 uc, and 20 m&f) a troll does better damage with unarmed combat than a +9 giant spiked club against a stone giant: about 30 vs 35 dam per 10 aut. Adding a large shield with enough shield skill to get rid of the penalty brings the UC damage down to ~30, but of course adds 21 SH in defenses. Bumping up a few levels in xl and skills, I tested some late-game enemies (orb guardians and orbs of fire) to see similar results, with UC and giant spiked club pretty comparable in damage (~27 for orb guardians, ~18 for oofs) but with more defenses for UC (or drop the shield and see somewhat higher damage).

Obviously this was pretty slap-dash testing, and perhaps not with exactly the parameters that would apply to your actual games; but hopefully it's enough to show that UC on a troll remains viable in the mid- and late-game. It compares well to a strong melee weapon alternative.
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Dis Charger

Posts: 1935

Joined: Monday, 18th February 2013, 07:59

Location: France

Post Tuesday, 28th January 2020, 11:05

Re: Troll

grinrain wrote:As for skilling, I skilled unarmed/fighting till unarmed in 6, then added shield/armor/dodge. When I picked a god needing invocation, plan to skill that up to 8, and then switch to throwing.

That being said, what am i missing on unarmed combat, and what is the best way to play with skills on a troll melee?
I'd train only UC to ~8-10 then add Throwing or Evoc or Invoc depending on what you find/worship.

Train also some Fighting/Shield.

I only start training Armour when I have some Dragon scales, and Dodging even later. Troll's defenses are big HP pool, regen and big damage.

Whatever happens, I have UC training on almost all game long.
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Fastest Hell runes (enter Hell branch -> get the rune)
Icy : 56 / Iron : 126 / Obsidian : 215 / Bone : 125

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Airwolf

Snake Sneak

Posts: 95

Joined: Monday, 14th March 2011, 11:14

Post Tuesday, 28th January 2020, 12:35

Re: Troll

The strategy that's effective for me is train Unarmed to around 6, where you get the first mindelay increase, then switch over to Dodging. Around that point melee monsters start to become worrying, and Dodging needs some time before the training pays off. Seriously, how do you play that Spiny Frogs or Two-Headed Ogres don't ruin your day if you postpone Dodging so much?
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Dis Charger

Posts: 1935

Joined: Monday, 18th February 2013, 07:59

Location: France

Post Tuesday, 28th January 2020, 12:51

Re: Troll

b0rsuk wrote:The strategy that's effective for me is train Unarmed to around 6, where you get the first mindelay increase, then switch over to Dodging. Around that point melee monsters start to become worrying, and Dodging needs some time before the training pays off. Seriously, how do you play that Spiny Frogs or Two-Headed Ogres don't ruin your day if you postpone Dodging so much?
I throw/evok at them before they come to melee range, then just claw them in the face.
As I said, troll's design is "the best defense is offense" ;)

I honestly think that a skill training of 25% Fighting / 50% UC / 25% Throwing (swap Invo/Evoc if needed) until you've cleared Orc/Lair is totally worth it for trolls
Online stats
Fastest Hell runes (enter Hell branch -> get the rune)
Icy : 56 / Iron : 126 / Obsidian : 215 / Bone : 125

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Airwolf

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8733

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Tuesday, 28th January 2020, 18:31

Re: Troll

b0rsuk wrote:The strategy that's effective for me is train Unarmed to around 6, where you get the first mindelay increase
It doesn't work like this anymore (and when it did the breakpoints were at multiples of 5, not 6). The delay is randomly rounded now so that each level of unarmed combat skill reduces delay by 1/54 on average.

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