New Nemelex is overpowered. Use it while you can!


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Snake Sneak

Posts: 95

Joined: Monday, 14th March 2011, 11:14

Post Monday, 20th January 2020, 12:33

New Nemelex is overpowered. Use it while you can!

Hi!

Use the new Nemelex Xobeh before devs figure out what's going on. It's very inexpensive artillery support.

21 Invocations is admittedly high, but Deal Four can wipe out half of the guardians at Vault:5 and severely wound the rest. Early in the game, a couple of skill levels lets you one shot hydras with energy orbs. Degeneration might sound scary, but it can instantly save you if demonologists start summoning 1's. Polymorphed monsters lose their spellcasting skills and any summons they have are instantly dismissed. I'm sure you'd rather degenerate a Nicola than let him zap you when you lack electricity resistance. Last time I checked equipment they have is dropped on the ground. Storm and Wild Magic can really devastate groups of tough enemies.

I don't know the exact threshold, but Invocation at 15 can sometimes summon a friendly pandemonium lord. Sometimes your own illusion, or a floating blade, or a few yaktaurs/naga sharpshooters. Summons are a bit unreliable but I had a friendly catoblepas cripple several uniques, like The Enchantress.

The kicker: activated powers were balanced with old, deadly Nemelex in mind. The one that could banish you or swap your stats permanently. Drawing a single card from a deck is no less powerful because it depends only on your current piety and costs Nothing (technically also a card from a deck but they regenerate pretty quickly as you explore, just have enough Invocations so it's cost-effective). In practice you don't need piety-costing abilities 90% of the time. Triple Draw against tricky enemies like non-living so you don't waste a turn for instance polymorphing them. Deal Four when you're in a hurry to deal lots of damage before they close in. Then you can safely follow up with summoning.

Polymorphing monsters with high Invo is rarely dangerous in practice, Storm causes explosions of lightning far from you if there are no monsters next to you, etc. Deck of Escape is a bit more tricky, but even Shaft is optional because it generates one on your space but you still have a chance to move. I had the escape deck Slow me as well as the enemies occassionally, but I pulled a few dozen cards from it and no major accident happened. The Tomb is very nice if there's at least 1 square between you and monsters - you can wait out poison, hostile enchantments, corrosion, heal.

The nice thing is that it goes really well with Demonspawn, who have the Invocation aptitude of +3. Just watch out for noise. It allowed my current Demonspawn Fighter (Dodging/Shields/Stealth) to collect 4 runes.

The bad thing is that you can't predict what exactly is going to happen - sometimes a bolt of acid, maybe loud explosions, polymorphing, or one hit kill with orb. Unless you use cheap Triple Draw. But if it can carry a squishy demonspawn, it can work for anyone. Still much stealthier than Qazlal.
Last edited by b0rsuk on Monday, 20th January 2020, 18:55, edited 1 time in total.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8733

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Monday, 20th January 2020, 18:37

Re: New Nemelex is overpowered. Use it while you can!

b0rsuk wrote:The kicker: activated powers were balanced
lol

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nago

bel

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2145

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Tuesday, 21st January 2020, 04:38

Re: New Nemelex is overpowered. Use it while you can!

I think Nemelex was always OP. The new system just removed most of the inventory headaches.

Blades Runner

Posts: 543

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Tuesday, 21st January 2020, 15:18

Re: New Nemelex is overpowered. Use it while you can!

Nemelex got nerfed relative to its .22 or so days. It's still a top tier god choice, but it's a lot less annoying to use now.

Calling it "overpowered" in the company of Trog, Kiku, Gozag, Hep, for example is something of a reach though. It's better than picking Sif Muna early or taking Xom at all, but that doesn't make it special.

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nago

Dungeon Master

Posts: 623

Joined: Thursday, 23rd October 2014, 03:08

Post Wednesday, 22nd January 2020, 03:26

Re: New Nemelex is overpowered. Use it while you can!

b0rsuk wrote:I'm sure you'd rather degenerate a Nicola than let him zap you when you lack electricity resistance.

I degenerated Nikola into a Iron Giant so I'm not sure if this is entirely true.

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Airwolf

Blades Runner

Posts: 638

Joined: Saturday, 12th December 2015, 23:54

Post Wednesday, 22nd January 2020, 21:32

Re: New Nemelex is overpowered. Use it while you can!

I think that Nemelex is pretty close to Kiku etc. power level wise. Pretty much always optimal to take off an early altar, may or may not win out over the other op gods if you find their altars together.
Remove spell hunger.
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4331

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Thursday, 23rd January 2020, 00:26

Re: New Nemelex is overpowered. Use it while you can!

About degeneration: Gastronok -> Shard Shrike is a "funny" exchange as well.
...MiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}
DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu
{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWr

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nago

Snake Sneak

Posts: 95

Joined: Monday, 14th March 2011, 11:14

Post Thursday, 23rd January 2020, 09:38

Re: New Nemelex is overpowered. Use it while you can!

As a rule of thumb, fat monsters tend to have big HD and are dangerous to polymorph. This includes Gastronok, Hydra, Dire Elephant, Bone Dragon.

I'm not 100% sure I polymorphed Nicola - he does seem to have 20 HD. I do remember using summoned catoblepas to make very short work of Enchantress. So it seems you need to use wiki to learn about HD to be safe. Erolcha has pathetic 6 HD. Louise is 13 (the same as hydra), Aizul 14. I suppose it could have had to do with my impressive Invocations. The wiki says it the Degeneration card morphs monsters into stuff with *lower* HD. Shard Shrike is 21 HD, so you clearly failed at the invocation.

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