How can I get all skills to 27


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Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 723

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Saturday, 21st September 2019, 20:37

How can I get all skills to 27

I'd like to get all skills to 27 on a character. So I'm playing a gnoll ;) . Currently with Vehm, at Zot:1.

Character dump is here: https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/pete ... cordia.txt

So questions I have for this character:
How much of the game am I likely to have to play through to get all skills to 27? Is Hell+Pan enough, or will I have to do a Zig?
Should I switch to TSO? I can almost get Necromutation at the cost of only 8 spell slots, and Vehm is better in a Zig, and I'm relying on Vehm for my most powerful spells, but health regen on kills would be nice. I can also get a +9 Holy Fustibalus (in addition to a +9 blowgun) if I go with TSO.
Is it worth using a scroll of amnesia to get rid of PoG in Zot? It's good in Hell and Pan AFAIK. I have 5 amnesia scrolls available.

Again, my goal is to max out all skills.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 279

Joined: Monday, 17th December 2012, 16:04

Post Saturday, 21st September 2019, 20:48

Re: How can I get all skills to 27

I recently started a Gnoll and have everything on 27, it took me Hells, Tomb, clear Zot till 4, abyssal rune and about 3 Ziggs to get there. I havent set foot in Pandemonium yet because getting runes is boring.

You could also:

1: grind Abyss,
2: grind Pan,

Instead.

good luck!
aka: Innameasone and electricaloddity
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1751

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Sunday, 22nd September 2019, 04:49

Re: How can I get all skills to 27

Very slowly.

You should at least do part of a Zig, early on they're not hard and can still be a good XP source.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 723

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Sunday, 22nd September 2019, 15:05

Re: How can I get all skills to 27

So it sounds like I need advice for a Zig.

Can you tell me what combination of spells, gods, equipment & consumables you used for your Gnoll Zigs? Any important tactics I should know of?
Also, can anyone tell me how important starting piety is for a Zig?

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5303

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Friday, 27th September 2019, 00:06

Re: How can I get all skills to 27

There are multiple strategies for Ziggs, and I'm not going to try to be super complete here, but the most common strategy is usually necromutation and level 9 aoe spells. Firestorm and Tornado (both, not just one) being the general standard. This might be slightly harder to do on a gnoll since you can't focus those skills, but if you've cleared extended already you're probably good enough to cast both with maybe a wizardry ring and some +int. Controlled blink is also recommended, although it can be hard to find. After you clear a couple of floors in a zigg you can probably do it without the wizardry.

For god choices I think Makhleb is usually best, but if you want Vehumet for the mana restore that's fine too. But you don't die with 0 mana, and you do die with 0 health. You can also use basically any god for the first 1-2 ziggs, it's only the megaziggs that "require" Makhleb.

Require is in quotes because there are crazy people who have done >100 ziggs on a gargoyle of Zin. So alternate builds definitely exist.

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petercordia

Crypt Cleanser

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Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Friday, 27th September 2019, 13:24

Re: How can I get all skills to 27

The challenge lies in getting lv 9 spells online. I suppose I could drop down to archmagi robes + medium shield (instead of my current +8 Firedragon scales + large shield), but I'd feel safer if that could be avoided.

How do you deal with mana with Makleb + necromutation? Sublimation of blood wouldn't work anymore...

Also, if I'm using Necromutation I can play mutation roulette until I get a good enough mutation set right? I've currently settled for {clumsy 1, sense surroundings 1, robust 1, no potion heal 1}, but I've got 10 or so more !mut I could play around with, if that'd be helpful.

Blades Runner

Posts: 531

Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19

Post Saturday, 28th September 2019, 20:14

Re: How can I get all skills to 27

petercordia wrote:The challenge lies in getting lv 9 spells online. I suppose I could drop down to archmagi robes + medium shield (instead of my current +8 Firedragon scales + large shield), but I'd feel safer if that could be avoided.

How do you deal with mana with Makleb + necromutation? Sublimation of blood wouldn't work anymore...

Also, if I'm using Necromutation I can play mutation roulette until I get a good enough mutation set right? I've currently settled for {clumsy 1, sense surroundings 1, robust 1, no potion heal 1}, but I've got 10 or so more !mut I could play around with, if that'd be helpful.


Here are some tips:
Don't drop to robes, you'd be better off with steam dragon or other lightish dragon scales
Use the medium shield, don't worry about large shield if it affects your casting ability, just wait until your skills are all higher
Drop your initial expectation of firestorm down to ignition, it's almost as good and even better in some cases
Quaff brilliance potions strategically if you need to get tornado and/or necromutation launched
Mana comes primarily from either sublimate if you're on a non-tormenting level and you stay alive, OR it comes from channelling a staff of energy at opportune moments
Channel mana and sublimate especially during spells like tornado that kill over several turns
Do not worry about mutations if you're planning to Zig, you'll get a lot of mutation potions, gaining XP to push you into decent armour + critical spells is more important
If you finish a zig all the way and get a token, you'll likely be strong enough to finish several more with much less risk, so quaff mut potions until you're happy with a set
Timing is very important, don't unload all your firepower every second just because you can, keep topping off your mana and unload when you stand to benefit from it most
For your first zig, use liberal amounts of potions in-advance of the encounters because you pick up lots of potions, and you need room for all the gear you find
After you're pretty strong from doing an entire zig, potions won't be quite as critical to survival (you'll stabilize by being much stronger and having better gear overall)
Balance all your resists, don't leave holes if possible, beyond that items with big +Int and +Str are the most valuable.
Consider swapping between an elemental staff and staff of energy for quick bursts to your spell power before unloading at key moments.
If you encounter a level you don't think you can handle, use liberal fog/teleport/blink scrolls to get out ASAP. A last ditch effort is intentionally unwielding distortion brand to get yourself banished.
Evocable items that summon stuff like spiders, beasts, etc. can serve as good distractions if you get into trouble and need to try and buy time to escape/recharge.
Keep a couple good evocable items for dealing with situations where you might find yourself silenced.
Dragon Form + UC is a very good last line of defense if you're in big trouble (smash anything without needing mana or spells)

Good luck!

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Airwolf, petercordia

Dis Charger

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Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Monday, 30th September 2019, 15:23

Re: How can I get all skills to 27

I had a similar run in May this year, here is the dump:
https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/ma ... 155457.txt

I reached 27 with all skills on lvl 23 of the second Zig.

The spell list of the character is misleading, the lvl 9 big spells are only a late development, the first Zig (and before that the entire game) was mostly about vile clutch and lightning spire. Great spells.

If you want to melee stuff (or have to) I recommend a weapon - and certainly not dragon form. Dragon form is best for 1v1 combat, it is dangerous against multiple opponents because your defenses are crap.

Finally, I recommend Ultraviolent4's Ziggy Golddust videos. Ziggy is not a gnoll, but a mummy (of Gozag), but whatever. There are a couple of Zigs cleared with lower level spells.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJsj9nB ... 2whzbOh5if

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petercordia

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1187

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Monday, 30th September 2019, 18:39

Re: How can I get all skills to 27

All the other advice in this thread is great. There is more in other threads here and there, some of it by me, if that helps you to search.

Javelins are strong to pick off summoners & smiters behind other monsters and also to damage many monsters at once.

Otherwise, go slow and use your brain. Most of the floors will be easy but a few can be very deadly if you aren't careful. Think through *all* of your options. Buff, flee, etc early.

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petercordia

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