Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Temple Termagant

Posts: 7

Joined: Friday, 28th June 2019, 20:44

Post Friday, 28th June 2019, 20:58

Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

I only now discovered this amazing game. I used to play ADOM, so this takes me back to those times.

After many runs as a Human Wizard, the furthest I got was Lair 4.
I now want to go an easier approach which is Minotaur Fighter I figured. On my first run I made it all the way to the swamp, after which I got heavily poisoned by a swamp dragon.

I just have a couple questions to improve my game.

Which weapon is best for my class, long sword, Axe, flail, ...?
Should I be using a shield vs a 2H weapon?
How should I balance my Str vs Dex?
Should I be investing any skill at all in a ranged attack? if so which one, bows slings or blowgun?

Blades Runner

Posts: 625

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Friday, 28th June 2019, 21:42

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

I would advice playing with both axes and flails. Axes are easier, but flails teach you to play well. Swords play basically the same as flails but are a bit more gimmicky, and spears allow you to do some neat things with reaching but I don't think they teach you much that helps when playing with a axe/mace/sword.
I find winning with a shield much easier than with 2H weapons.
Go Str all the way.
I usually go with Evocations for the ranged attack, and sometimes god powers.
Throwing & slings are also fine to complement a 1H weapon. Bows & crossbows are a bit expensive if you want to also have a 2H weapon at min delay (because they cost a lost of XP), but you can transition into pure bow/xbow and have a good game. A Centaur Hunter gives you an even easier game than a Minotaur Fighter imo btw. You can play without a ranged attack, but I never do. If you stop training you 1H weapon at mindelay, throwing can become your most potent attack.

bel

Dis Charger

Posts: 2117

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Saturday, 29th June 2019, 02:22

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

A lot depends on what god you choose. Good gods for new players are Trog, Okawaru, Makhleb and Yred. If you want to play with Trog, you might want to start as a Berserker instead of Fighter, since you get to worship Trog from the start.

Minotaurs are good with all weapons and you can use shields if you like. This is why Minotaurs are great physical fighters. Pick any weapon class you like and stick with it. Polearms are pretty good. Personally, I like axes.

For ranged attacks: if you use bows and crossbows, you cannot use a shield. If you use slings (or throwing), you can use shields. You can train ranged weapons once you have your main melee weapon to a reasonable delay.

My personal preference is two handed axes for melee (battleaxes are good for most of the game) and bows for ranged attacks. But, as I said, many options are viable. For instance, Yredelemnul gives you allies, and you want to tank for your allies -- so, in this case, I would go with a shield and one-handed weapon.

As for Str vs Dex, it really doesn't matter either way.

If you post character dumps of your deaths, people can give you more concrete advice.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 214

Joined: Saturday, 25th March 2017, 16:51

Post Saturday, 29th June 2019, 09:22

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

Welcome to this great game! I too made the transition from Adom and never went back. I would advise you to go MiBe until you learn the ropes:
  • Pick Minotaur Berserker
  • I like axes but I would advise you to go maces to learn how to play since with axes a bad player like me tends to fight lots of monsters at the same time
  • Use your god's powers; they're all very, very good
  • Always choose Str. I know it sounds lame but actually the rationale is brutes pick Str, casters pick Int (this is not true as sometimes, casters pick Str to be able to avoid the encumberance of armour)
  • Just train your weapon for a couple of levels, or focus your weapon and train fighting as well
  • Always pick the heaviest armour you can find, and the best weapon from your weapon skill
  • Later train fighting, your weapon, armour, dodging
  • Shields increase your survivability by a lot, especially in ranger infested zones
  • Pick a shield as soon as you find one, it will help even if unskilled
  • Good end weapons with shield: Evening star/Demon Whip > Morning star; Broad axe
  • An early weapon of venom or lighting can mow down mobs for the initial levels (up to Lair) even if it is not your chosen skill, just use it unskilled and try to see if it is better than your best mace/axe
  • Pick evocations till level 10ish, this is your "magic" and can destroy your oponents when well used
  • Pick darts and use them, they can trivialize a fight if used well
  • Study other people's morgue files, at the end there is a table with what skills they trained at what level
  • Read this and follow it as a bible: http://www.ultraviolent4.com/patashutactics.html
  • Here is a typical MiBe: https://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/zhorgal/morgue-zhorgal-20190614-105659.txt
The most important thing to remember: read the guide! Follow it. I die a lot because I don't follow it because I'm too impatient.

Temple Termagant

Posts: 7

Joined: Friday, 28th June 2019, 20:44

Post Saturday, 29th June 2019, 14:22

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

Thanks all for your valuable advice.

If I put most of my points in Str, having lower Dex is there any point to training dodging?
User avatar

Slime Squisher

Posts: 351

Joined: Sunday, 27th January 2019, 13:50

Post Saturday, 29th June 2019, 14:35

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

demeyt wrote:If I put most of my points in Str, having lower Dex is there any point to training dodging?


Short answer: yes.
There are areas in the game where you really don't want to get hit. With the aptitudes and bonus Dex of a minotaur, getting a respectable EV is not difficult at all. Train it.
There is always something new to learn.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 37

Joined: Sunday, 27th February 2011, 19:28

Post Sunday, 30th June 2019, 03:08

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

MiFi are probably my favorite combination. I 15 runed with one the other day, in less than four hours. I started as a Gozag worshipper to buy all sorts of sweet gear, before switching to TSO for the extended endgame.
http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 220455.txt

For skills I typically train my weapon up to 16, and then just turn on fighting/armor/dodge/shield/weapon and leave them all on until they are maxed. I don't really trying to micromanage skills beyond that. I might make an exception for some evocations for an amulet of rage, or invocations of I am Oka/Trog.

Put on the first plate armor you can find. Replace it with crystal plate or golden dragon armor when/if you find them.

>>Which weapon is best for my class, long sword, Axe, flail, ...?
For weapons, my favorite for MiFi currently mace and flail, mostly because I try to get my hand on an eveningstar any way I can. Oka/Trog gifting, Gozag purchasing, acquirement, or dumb luck are all viable methods of procurement. It is hard to go wrong with the highest base damage one hander, if you can get one. If you bomb out on it, a morningstar or demon whip will still work fine.

>>Should I be using a shield vs a 2H weapon?
I used to be big for 2h weapons, but since their damage has been nerfed down I kind of prefer 1h these days. I used to play with a lot of executioner axes and bardiches. Now I mostly just aim for ye olde eveningstar. Shields can be pretty helpful, particular in low-rune runs, and having an extra slot for resists is always good.

>>How should I balance my Str vs Dex?
Get all the strength, and forget dex exists.

>>Should I be investing any skill at all in a ranged attack? if so which one, bows slings or blowgun?
Throwing if you are going for 1h+shield, since you want something you can use with your shield. Crossbows or Bows are fine if you are going 2h. Throwing is often important if you get spider, to take care of orb weavers.

The most important piece of advice I have for playing melee? Unless you are extremely confident, don't rush towards enemies, revealing new map. That can potentially reveal new enemies, leading to a bad sitaution. You can often be better off retreating back and breaking line of sight, making the enemies come to you.

Temple Termagant

Posts: 7

Joined: Friday, 28th June 2019, 20:44

Post Sunday, 30th June 2019, 06:36

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

All great advice, looks like I am doing better, just finished The Lair.

Any idea how challenging Shoals, The Mines, Snakepit and slime pits are?
Should I wait a number of levels before attempting these branches?

I'm having some doubts when comparing weapons. At this point in the game I have a whole bunch of nice weapons, but no idea which one is better.
e.g. how much impact does the enchantment level have?
And which one of the following is better?:
* +4 broad axe of chopping
* + 0 broad axe "Ataifail" {drain, *Contam rElec rPois dex +6}
* +2 war axe of freezing

bel

Dis Charger

Posts: 2117

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Sunday, 30th June 2019, 06:59

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

Finish Orc mines and Dungeon before doing the Lair branches.

Snake is a bit easier than Shoals. Keep in mind that Nagas are slow and snakes are fast, so split them apart to make them easier to fight. There's also plenty of cover in Snake and very little cover in Shoals. Watch out for Guardian Serpents and Shock Serpents in Snake. Naga Sharpshooters can also be tricky.

As for the weapons, the broad axe of chopping is the best. You want a good base type (broad axe is the highest damage for one-handed), and good enchantment. Brand is mostly not relevant, unless it's vampiric/antimagic (which are great on good base damage weapon) or distortion (very good on any weapon, but annoying to use). All of these brands are quite rare.

So, enchant it up: a +9 broad axe of chopping is endgame-quality weapon. Also, you'll find plenty of large shields in Snake, if you're going for 1h-weapon + shield.

If you post a character dump, people can give more concrete advice. To get a character dump, type "#" in-game. Copy-paste the file contents in "Code" tags here.

Temple Termagant

Posts: 7

Joined: Friday, 28th June 2019, 20:44

Post Sunday, 30th June 2019, 14:54

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

See below my character dump.

If any advice on my current situation or what I could have done better earlier, let me know!

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.23.2-33-g5129a83 (webtiles) character file.

demeyt the Fighter (Minotaur Fighter)              Turns: 22679, Time: 03:00:38

Health: 133/133    AC: 21    Str: 25    XL:     14   Next: 77%
Magic:  17/17      EV: 13    Int:  9    God:    Okawaru [******]
Gold:   1413       SH: 13    Dex: 16    Spells: 13/13 levels left

rFire    + . .     SeeInvis .   t - +4 broad axe (chop)
rCold    + + .     Gourm    .   c - +0 shield
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   Q - +0 plate armour {rC+}
rPois    .         Spirit   .   W - +2 hat "Geiwar" {MR+ Regen+ Int+4}
rElec    .         Reflect  .   v - scarf {rC+ rF+}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   w - +0 pair of gloves of Defiance {+Blink Dex+3}
MR       ++...                  D - +1 pair of boots
Stlth    ..........             (no amulet)
HPRegen  0.72/turn              n - +4 ring of dexterity
MPRegen  0.15/turn              (no ring)

@: no status effects
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2, clumsy 1, low mp 1
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion, Evoke Blink


You are on level 10 of the Dungeon.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 20 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ossuary and Gauntlet.

You have collected 1413 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +9 dagger of Indomitability {chaos, MP+9 Str+3 Int-3 SInv}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   Each time it hits an enemy it has a different, random effect.
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your intelligence (-3).
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
   It lets you see invisible.
 l - the +0 broad axe "Ataifail" {drain, *Contam rElec rPois Dex+6}
   (You acquired it on level 10 of the Dungeon)   
   
   A truly terrible weapon, it drains the life of those it strikes.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+6).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
   It causes magical contamination when unequipped.
 t - a +4 broad axe of chopping (weapon)
 R - a +2 war axe of freezing
Missiles
 K - 3 throwing nets (quivered)
Armour
 c - a +0 shield (worn)
 v - a scarf of resistance (worn)
 w - the +0 pair of gloves of Defiance (worn) {+Blink Dex+3}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It lets you blink.
 D - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
 Q - a +0 plate armour of cold resistance (worn)
 W - the +2 hat "Geiwar" (worn) {MR+ Regen+ Int+4}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 8 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
Jewellery
 n - a +4 ring of dexterity (left hand)
Wands
 r - a wand of clouds (4)
 s - a wand of disintegration (4)
 y - a wand of digging (24)
 C - a wand of random effects (30)
 G - a wand of paralysis (9)
 J - a wand of iceblast (18)
 M - a wand of enslavement (11)
 Z - a wand of acid (3)
Scrolls
 b - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon
 e - 5 scrolls of enchant armour
 h - 13 scrolls of teleportation
 i - 2 scrolls of fog
 j - 5 scrolls of immolation
 k - a scroll of magic mapping
 m - 3 scrolls of blinking
 p - 12 scrolls of remove curse
 u - a scroll of amnesia
Potions
 d - 4 potions of might
 o - 7 potions of curing
 q - 5 potions of agility
 x - 3 potions of ambrosia
 z - 5 puce potions
 A - 2 ruby potions
 B - 3 lumpy black potions
 F - a murky sapphire potion
 I - 5 amethyst potions
 N - a pink potion
Comestibles
 f - 23 rations


   Skills:
 * Level 14.5 Fighting
 * Level 14.1 Axes
 + Level 11.9 Armour
 + Level 10.3 Dodging
 + Level 12.0 Shields
 + Level 7.6 Invocations
 + Level 8.4 Evocations


You have 13 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.
Your spell library contains the following spells:

 Spells                   Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
 Animate Skeleton         Necr           N/A          99%         1    ##.....
 Apportation              Tloc           #.....       99%         1    ##.....
 Beastly Appendage        Tmut           #.....       99%         1    ##.....
 Confusing Touch          Hex            #.....       99%         1    ##.....
 Magic Dart               Conj           #...         99%         1    ##.....
 Pain                     Necr           #...         99%         1    ##.....
 Sandblast                Erth           #.....       99%         1    ##.....
 Summon Small Mammal      Summ           #...         99%         1    ##.....
 Blink                    Tloc           N/A          100%        2    ###....
 Call Imp                 Summ           #.......     100%        2    ###....
 Passwall                 Tmut/Erth      #.......     100%        2    ###....
 Slow                     Hex            #.......     100%        2    ###....
 Sticks to Snakes         Tmut           #.......     100%        2    ###....
 Call Canine Familiar     Summ           #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Confuse                  Hex            #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Conjure Flame            Conj/Fire      #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Gell's Gravitas          Tloc           #.........   100%        3    ####...
 Mephitic Cloud           Conj/Pois/Air  #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Regeneration             Chrm/Necr      #.........   100%        3    ####...
 Spider Form              Tmut/Pois      #.........   100%        3    ####...
 Stone Arrow              Conj/Erth      #.....       100%        3    ####...
 Summon Guardian Golem    Hex/Summ       #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Vampiric Draining        Necr           #.........   100%        3    ####...
 Animate Dead             Necr           N/A          100%        4    #####..
 Ice Form                 Ice/Tmut       #.......     100%        4    #####..
 Petrify                  Tmut/Erth      #.......     100%        4    #####..
 Summon Ice Beast         Ice/Summ       #.......     100%        4    #####..
 Summon Lightning Spire   Summ/Air       #.......     100%        4    #####..
 Blade Hands              Tmut           #.........   100%        5    ######.
 Lee's Rapid Deconstruct  Erth           #.........   100%        5    ######.
 Metabolic Englaciation   Hex/Ice        #.........   100%        5    ######.
 Yara's Violent Unravell  Hex/Tmut       #.........   100%        5    ######.


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (13/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5            Lair (6/6) D:10
 Shoals (0/4) Lair:3        Snake (0/4) Lair:2        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (0/2) D:12       
Vaults: D:13-14     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:4 (   D:6 %*   D:10 *   D:12 [

Annotations:
D:12 exclusion: hungry ghost


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.
You are clumsy. (Dex -2)
Your magical capacity is low. (-10% MP)


Message History

There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
You climb upwards. Welcome back to the Dungeon!
There is a staircase to the Lair here.
Items here: ! "" ((( )))))))) // = ? [[[[[[ | }}}
Drop what? 45/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You drop a sack of spiders.
You drop a crystal ball of energy.
You drop a fan of gales.
You drop a +4 vampiric executioner's axe.
You drop a glowing falchion.
Okay, then.
Items here: ! "" ((( )))))))))) // = ? [[[[[[ | }}}}}}
Okay, then.
Okay, then.
Save game and exit?
Welcome back, demeyt the Minotaur Fighter.
Okawaru says: Bring me glory in combat!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
Char dumped successfully.
Save game and exit?

#..'....#.........#     #.....#..
...#....#.........##  ###[....#).
..##....#.####.....####.......#..
####....#.##.........##.......#..
...#....#.#.......P...#.......#..
..##....##...P................#..
..##....#.......>.............#..
..'....................##.....#..
..#.......#..P..@.....#.#.....#..
..#.....####.........##.#.....#..
..##....######.....####.#.....#..
'###.....#.......##....>#.....#..
.........#.......##.....#.....#..
..##....##..............#.....#..
..#####'##....<.........#.....#..
...#....###'#######.....#.....#..
...'....##.......##....##.....#..


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Gastronok (Lair:2)
  Kirke (Lair:4)
  Azrael (D:13)
  A dire elephant (Lair:5)
  A minotaur (Gauntlet)
  Snorg (D:11)
  Josephine (D:10)
  6 hydras
  A catoblepas (Lair:6)
  5 two-headed ogres
  8 death yaks
  Nergalle (D:11)
  The ghost of HaroldFreecs the Magician, a novice GnSk of Makhleb (D:8)
  A death drake (Gauntlet)
  An unseen horror (D:13)
  3 lindwurms (Lair:6)
  A cyclops (D:12)
  12 elephants
  An ugly thing (D:11)
  2 manticores (Lair:6)
  2 spectral centaurs (Gauntlet)
  Maurice (D:9)
  3 merfolk sirens (Lair:3)
  6 black mambas
  A centaur zombie (D:6)
  2 torpor snails (Lair:6)
  7 spiny frogs
  2 centaur skeletons
  3 rime drakes
  A gargoyle (D:11)
  9 komodo dragons
  A minotaur zombie (Gauntlet)
  An ice devil (Gauntlet)
  A merfolk (Lair:3)
  A hornet (D:10)
  A slime creature (Lair:5)
  15 blink frogs
  4 dream sheep (Lair:6)
  9 hippogriffs
  8 flying skulls (Gauntlet)
  6 wraiths
  A shadow (D:8)
  A wyvern (Lair:4)
  A basilisk (Lair:6)
  3 hogs (Lair:4)
  4 fire elementals (D:13)
  33 yaks
  3 steam dragons
  A hungry ghost (D:12)
  Edmund (D:5)
  2 wargs (D:10)
  Duvessa (D:3)
  A hell hound (D:13)
  9 porcupines
  6 water moccasins
  10 orc warriors
  2 sky beasts
  4 phantoms
  A black bear (D:5)
  2 ice beasts
  A hornet zombie (D:8)
  10 ogres
  A necrophage (D:6)
  5 centaurs
  9 wolves
  2 big kobolds
  9 crocodiles
  A gnoll sergeant (D:9)
  Dowan (D:3)
  14 bullfrogs
  A wyvern zombie (D:12)
  2 scorpions
  2 water moccasin skeletons
  22 killer bees
  12 wights
  8 electric eels
  4 crimson imps
  2 howler monkeys
  A bullfrog zombie (D:9)
  3 quasits
  5 bullfrog skeletons
  5 hounds
  5 jellies
  10 orc wizards
  10 orc priests
  2 iguanas
  A statue (D:6)
  8 worker ants
  A killer bee zombie (D:5)
  A hound zombie (D:6)
  A hound skeleton (D:5)
  8 mummies (Ossuary)
  A howler monkey skeleton (D:4)
  A worker ant zombie (D:10)
  6 gnolls
  11 adders
  3 shadow imps
  2 white imps (Gauntlet)
  An adder zombie (D:5)
  An adder skeleton (D:4)
  A worm (D:4)
  A dart slug (D:1)
  2 leopard geckos
  57 orcs
  7 giant cockroaches
  9 goblins
  12 hobgoblins
  6 jackals
  15 kobolds
  A quokka (D:5)
  2 ball pythons
  8 bats
  2 frilled lizards
  2 gnoll zombies (Ossuary)
  3 hobgoblin zombies (Ossuary)
  2 jackal skeletons
  2 kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  An orc zombie (Ossuary)
  2 quokka skeletons
  A quokka zombie (D:5)
  4 rats
  A butterfly (D:5)
  13 fungi
  2 plants
569 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  3 humans (Lair:4)
  A killer bee (D:12)
  A jelly (D:13)
  An orc wizard (D:7)
  A dart slug (D:3)
  14 demonic plants (Gauntlet)
  9 fungi
  2 plants
32 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 601 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | demeyt the Minotaur Fighter began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 19/19 MP: 0/0
   103 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 27/27 MP: 1/1
   538 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 33/33 MP: 2/2
   916 | D:2      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
   917 | D:2      | Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana.
   919 | D:2      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
   920 | D:2      | Found an ornate altar of the Wu Jian Council.
   920 | D:2      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
   921 | D:2      | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
   922 | D:2      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
   934 | D:2      | Became a worshipper of Warmaster Okawaru
  1225 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Dodging
  1267 | D:2      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  1616 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 32/40 MP: 3/3
  1900 | D:3      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  1993 | D:3      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  2367 | D:4      | Found Juengoe's Weapon Shop.
  2374 | D:4      | Noticed Dowan
  2374 | D:4      | Noticed Duvessa
  2394 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 41/47 MP: 4/4
  2661 | D:4      | Reached * piety under Okawaru
  2689 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  2736 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 51/55 MP: 5/5
  2778 | D:4      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  2797 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  2797 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
  3293 | D:3      | Killed Duvessa
  3303 | D:3      | Killed Dowan
  3303 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
  3303 | D:3      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 49/61 MP: 6/6
  3334 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3334 | D:5      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  3343 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  3896 | Ossuary  | Reached ** piety under Okawaru
  4175 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4284 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4508 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Axes
  4536 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 66/70 MP: 8/8
  4690 | D:5      | Noticed Edmund
  4699 | D:5      | Killed Edmund
  4742 | D:5      | Reached *** piety under Okawaru
  4780 | D:5      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  5307 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  5422 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 79/79 MP: 10/10
  5468 | D:6      | Found Jituakona's Food Shop.
  5887 | D:6      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  6006 | D:6      | Found Xiostip's Serpentskin Sales.
  6440 | D:7      | Reached **** piety under Okawaru
  7240 | D:7      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  7396 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  7410 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  7410 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
  7410 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 66/90 MP: 10/12
  7808 | D:8      | Found a runed translucent gate.
  7809 | D:8      | Found a runed translucent gate.
  7809 | D:8      | Found a runed translucent gate.
  7811 | D:8      | Noticed HaroldFreecs's ghost (novice GnSk)
  8011 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  8027 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  8027 | D:8      | Reached ***** piety under Okawaru
  8040 | D:8      | Got a smoking ring mail
  8258 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
  8647 | D:9      | Found the +6 arbalest "Damnation" {damnation}
  9548 | D:8      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 33/99 MP: 10/14
  9554 | D:8      | Received a gift from Okawaru
  9890 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  9901 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  9918 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
  9991 | D:9      | Noticed Maurice
 10006 | D:9      | Paralysed by Maurice for 2 turns
 10012 | D:9      | Paralysed by Maurice for 6 turns
 10072 | D:9      | Killed Maurice
 10283 | D:8      | Killed HaroldFreecs's ghost
 10283 | D:8      | Received a gift from Okawaru
 10286 | D:8      | Got a brightly glowing hat {god gift}
 10297 | D:8      | Identified the +2 hat "Geiwar" {MR+ Regen+ Int+4} (Okawaru
                  | gifted it to you on level 8 of the Dungeon)
 10379 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 10397 | D:10     | Found Plog's Assorted Antiques.
 10462 | D:10     | Got a smoking whip
 10533 | D:10     | Identified the +1 ring mail of the Dwarven Hall {Str+2}
                  | (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)
 10699 | D:10     | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 10751 | D:10     | Paralysed by a hornet for 1 turns
 10757 | D:10     | Noticed Josephine
 10821 | D:10     | Killed Josephine
 10821 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Axes
 11137 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 11226 | D:10     | You fall through a shaft for 2 floors!
 11252 | D:12     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 11257 | D:12     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 11273 | D:12     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 11394 | D:12     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 67/110 MP: 7/15
 11517 | D:12     | Found Ynuukhug's Antique Armour Emporium.
 11547 | D:12     | Identified the +1 whip "Jybysed" {venom, Int+3} (You found
                  | it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 11566 | D:11     | Noticed Nergalle
 11574 | D:11     | Killed Nergalle
 11756 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Shields
 12603 | D:11     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 12642 | D:11     | Noticed Snorg
 12653 | D:11     | Killed Snorg
 12758 | D:12     | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 12778 | D:12     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 12791 | D:12     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 13150 | D:12     | Noticed a frost giant
 13259 | D:13     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 13260 | D:13     | Noticed Azrael
 13283 | D:13     | Killed Azrael
 13283 | D:13     | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 13451 | D:12     | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 13475 | D:12     | Killed a 14-headed hydra
 13577 | D:12     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 13689 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 14045 | Lair:1   | Received a gift from Okawaru
 14053 | Lair:1   | Got a pair of twisted gloves {god gift}
 14064 | Lair:1   | Identified the +0 pair of gloves of Defiance {+Blink Dex+3}
                  | (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
 14219 | Lair:1   | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 14232 | Lair:1   | Killed a nine-headed hydra
 15043 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 119/119 MP: 17/17
 15065 | Lair:2   | Noticed Gastronok
 15213 | Lair:2   | Killed Gastronok
 15909 | Lair:2   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 16390 | Lair:3   | You fall through a shaft for 2 floors!
 16428 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 16496 | Lair:5   | Noticed a dire elephant
 16513 | Lair:5   | Killed a dire elephant
 16721 | Lair:4   | Noticed Kirke
 16768 | Lair:4   | Killed Kirke
 16810 | Lair:4   | Found a gate leading to a gauntlet.
 16819 | Gauntlet | Entered a Gauntlet
 16819 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16819 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16820 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16820 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16823 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16824 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16864 | Gauntlet | Received a gift from Okawaru
 16905 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16944 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16975 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16978 | Gauntlet | Found a large runed translucent door.
 16978 | Gauntlet | Found a large runed translucent door.
 17159 | Gauntlet | Found a large runed translucent door.
 17159 | Gauntlet | Found a large runed translucent door.
 17171 | Gauntlet | Got a pair of spiked gloves
 17174 | Gauntlet | Identified the +1 pair of gloves "Opnututy" {rF- Str+4
                  | Int+3} (You found it in a Gauntlet)
 17179 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 17211 | Gauntlet | Identified the cursed +2 great mace "Xinisusi" {drain,
                  | *Noise Dex+8 SInv}
 17211 | Gauntlet | Noticed a minotaur
 17229 | Gauntlet | Killed a minotaur
 17701 | Gauntlet | Found a runed translucent gate.
 17701 | Gauntlet | Found a runed translucent gate.
 18803 | Lair:3   | Got a steaming dagger
 18912 | Lair:3   | Identified 2 scrolls of acquirement
 18998 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 19286 | D:10     | Identified the +9 dagger of Indomitability {chaos, MP+9
                  | Str+3 Int-3 SInv} (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of
                  | Beasts)
 19303 | D:10     | Got a crystal broad axe
 19304 | D:10     | Identified the +0 broad axe "Ataifail" {drain, *Contam
                  | rElec rPois Dex+6} (You acquired it on level 10 of the
                  | Dungeon)
 19340 | D:10     | Gained mutation: Your magical capacity is low. (-10% MP)
                  | [mutagenic glow]
 20125 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 129/129 MP: 8/16
 21042 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 21107 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 21818 | Lair:6   | Received a gift from Okawaru
 21895 | Lair:6   | Gained mutation: You are clumsy. (Dex -2) [mutagenic glow]
 22128 | Lair:6   | Reached ****** piety under Okawaru

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------+-----
Armour         |     4        5     6  7  8     9 10 11    | 11.9
Shields        |     4           5  6  7  8  9    10 11 12 | 12.0
Fighting       |     4           5  6  7  8  9 11 12 13 14 | 14.5
Dodging        |        1     2  3  4  5  6  7  8     9 10 | 10.3
Axes           |        3        4  5  6  7  9 10 11 13 14 | 14.1
Evocations     |                 1  2  3  4  5  6  7     8 |  8.4
Invocations    |                          1  2  4  5  6  7 |  7.6

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: War axe           |    93 |   118 |   377 |   853 |   244 ||  1685
       Headbutt          |    12 |    24 |    77 |   174 |   181 ||   468
       Broad axe         |       |       |       |       |   264 ||   264
Throw: Throwing net      |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Invok: Heroism           |       |       |     6 |    20 |    13 ||    39
       Finesse           |       |       |       |     9 |     9 ||    18
 Abil: Evoke Blink       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |     6 |    15 ||    21
  Use: Scroll            |       |     8 |     6 |    12 |    13 ||    39
       Potion            |       |       |     2 |     2 |     4 ||     8
  Eat: Chunk             |     2 |     6 |    10 |    24 |    15 ||    57
       Ration            |       |       |     1 |     1 |     5 ||     7
Armor: Scale mail        |    32 |    52 |   135 |    34 |       ||   253
       Plate armour      |       |       |       |   382 |   200 ||   582
Dodge: Dodged            |    39 |    61 |   171 |   283 |   223 ||   777
Block: Shield            |    62 |    72 |   239 |   526 |   395 ||  1294

bel

Dis Charger

Posts: 2117

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Sunday, 30th June 2019, 15:09

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

You have a +4 vampiric executioner's axe, which is a really good weapon. 60% of the time you hit a living monster with it, it will heal you based on how much damage you did. An executioner's axe does a ton of damage, so you'll get healed a lot in-combat, which makes it very hard to die.

If you are willing to switch to two-handed weapons and ditch your shield, you can use that weapon and use all your enchant weapon scrolls on it. With Okawaru's Heroism, you get 5 skill levels for your weapon for free, so you don't need to train Axes to a very large amount. Should still train Axes to about 20 or so (eventually).

However, if you want to keep to 1-handed weapons, that is fine as well. The broad axe of chopping is a good, endgame quality weapon.

As for the rest, it seems like you're using Heroism and Finesse a decent amount, which is good. Heroism is fairly cheap, so you can even use it more often (basically, every non-trivial fight).

You can cure your mutations using a potion of mutation (if you want -- currently, they aren't too bad). You should identify all your potions. If you buy an potion marked "unknown" from a shop, it will identify the potion for you.

For ranged attacks, you can train throwing or evocations. The sack of spiders, box of beasts etc. are good evocables. Wands are also good.
Last edited by bel on Sunday, 30th June 2019, 15:28, edited 2 times in total.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 37

Joined: Sunday, 27th February 2011, 19:28

Post Sunday, 30th June 2019, 15:14

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

Bel's weapon advice is good.

For branches, I would say a safe order is something like the following.

1) Dungeon until lair.
2) Clear lair.
3) Clear orc.
4) Dungeon down until the depths portal.
5) The easier of the random lair branches. I would rank them in order of increasing difficulty as swap/spider/snake/shoals.
6) The harder of the two lair branches. If you want to push this one off, you can.
7) Vault down to 4.
8) All of depths.
9) Vault 5
10) Clear zot all the way to the orb. If you are going for your first win, grab the orb and win here. If you want to get more runes, continue.
11) Swap to TSO for postgame now. Clear crypt. Bless weapon.
12) Elf. I save elf for post-swap as I don't consider it terribly dangerous for the type of character doing this, and it gives time to burn off god wrath.
13) Slime. Everything after this can basically be done in whatever order you want, but I'll list what I would suggest anyway.
14) Pandemonium. All 5 runes. Likely escape via an abyss portal. Grab the abyss rune while you are there.
15) Tomb. Very dangerous branch now with the stair removal.
16) Hell. All four runes.
17) Back to zot, grab the orb, and escape.

For your dump, I would personally train up my weapon skill up a bit more. If sticking with the broad axe, min delay is at 18 skill, so I would turn off everything but axes until I get to 18. Then you can turn all of those other things back on and just ride it out. I know heroism gets you +5, but I personally don't like relying on it for min delay for a melee-oriented character. If we were talking about a hybrid it would be different.

Also yeah, I would probably swap to the vampiric executioner axe. Leeching a bunch of life back is also a good defense.

Temple Termagant

Posts: 7

Joined: Friday, 28th June 2019, 20:44

Post Sunday, 30th June 2019, 16:32

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

Just found a pair of boots: the +1 pair of boots of Raugaza { rPois MR+++, Str-5}

Is the loss of 5 strength worth to have MR+++++ in total on my character? Especially considering since I play pure melee axe?

bel

Dis Charger

Posts: 2117

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Sunday, 30th June 2019, 18:02

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

No.

For this message the author bel has received thanks:
duvessa

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 37

Joined: Sunday, 27th February 2011, 19:28

Post Sunday, 30th June 2019, 18:16

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

I would wear them if I was ready to do swamp/snake/spider, and that was my only source of rPois. Apart from that though, I agree with the no.

Blades Runner

Posts: 625

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Sunday, 30th June 2019, 19:41

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

I'd also wear them if there was no other way to get at least MR+++, because getting instant killed by banishment is really annoying. A bunch of other hexes are also annoying. Dying due to a lack of Str can usually/always be avoided with consumable use. If you're low on consumables this line of reasoning doesn't hold.
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4313

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Monday, 1st July 2019, 08:26

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

Use your scrolls of enchant armour and enchant weapon. They don't do any good in your inventory.
...CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}
DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}
DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}

For this message the author Sprucery has received thanks:
duvessa

Temple Termagant

Posts: 7

Joined: Friday, 28th June 2019, 20:44

Post Monday, 1st July 2019, 17:20

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

Below is my current character dump. Doing depths now and I feel a bit over powered.

My idea is to wait with using my enchantment scrolls until I have found the best armor & weapon, then max it out. Does that make sense?
Through cross-training I also need minimal investment to train Maces to the max level for an evening star ( I have found a plain +0 one). Maybe even switch to that for the end of the game. Is that worth it?

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.23.2-33-g5129a83 (webtiles) character file.

demeyt the Slayer (Minotaur Fighter)               Turns: 52314, Time: 07:35:51

Health: 220/220    AC: 29    Str: 43    XL:     22   Next: 54%
Magic:  25/25      EV: 34    Int:  9    God:    Okawaru [******]
Gold:   3857       SH: 26    Dex: 16    Spells: 21/21 levels left

rFire    + . .     SeeInvis .   R - +6 broad axe "Bisy" {chop, Str+4 Dex+7 Stlth-}
rCold    + . .     Gourm    .   H - +0 large shield
rNeg     + + .     Faith    .   N - +3 plate armour {rN+}
rPois    .         Spirit   .   W - +2 hat "Geiwar" {MR+ Regen+ Int+4}
rElec    .         Reflect  .   v - scarf {rC+ rF+}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   S - +1 pair of gloves {Str+3}
MR       ++...                  X - +2 pair of boots {Stlth+}
Stlth    ..........             u - amulet of the acrobat
HPRegen  0.86/turn              g - +6 ring of strength
MPRegen  0.19/turn              T - ring of Piamn {rN+ Slay+2}

@: acrobat, studying Throwing
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2, clumsy 1, low mp 1
}: 2/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion


You are on level 10 of the Dungeon.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 38 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ossuary and Gauntlet.

You have collected 4242 gold pieces.
You have spent 385 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 R - the +6 broad axe "Bisy" (weapon) {chop, Str+4 Dex+7 Stlth-}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 4 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+7).
   It makes you less stealthy.
Missiles
 l - 6 javelins of penetration (quivered)
Armour
 v - a scarf of resistance (worn)
 H - a +0 large shield (worn)
 N - a +3 plate armour of positive energy (worn)
 S - a +1 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
 W - the +2 hat "Geiwar" (worn) {MR+ Regen+ Int+4}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 8 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 X - a +2 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
Jewellery
 g - a +6 ring of strength (left hand)
 u - an amulet of the acrobat (around neck)
 T - the ring of Piamn (right hand) {rN+ Slay+2}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Shoals)   
   
   [ring of slaying]
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+2).
   It protects you from negative energy.
Wands
 n - a wand of flame (27)
 r - a wand of clouds (4)
 y - a wand of digging (24)
 G - a wand of paralysis (27)
 J - a wand of iceblast (27)
 M - a wand of enslavement (27)
 Q - a wand of disintegration (29)
Scrolls
 h - 17 scrolls of teleportation
 j - 2 scrolls of summoning
 k - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
 m - 7 scrolls of blinking
 p - 18 scrolls of remove curse
 F - 9 scrolls of identify
 O - a scroll of fear
Potions
 a - a potion of resistance
 d - 8 potions of might
 o - 7 potions of curing
 q - 6 potions of agility
 x - 4 potions of ambrosia
 z - 5 potions of cancellation
 A - 3 potions of flight
 B - 3 potions of berserk rage
 D - 2 potions of invisibility
 I - 7 potions of heal wounds
 P - 6 potions of haste
Books
 c - a manual of Throwing
Comestibles
 f - 59 rations


   Skills:
 * Level 23.3 Fighting
 - Level 18.0(18.8) Axes
   Level 10.3(15.2) Maces & Flails
 + Level 12.8 Throwing
 + Level 18.2 Armour
 + Level 16.4 Dodging
 + Level 18.2 Shields
 - Level 10.0 Invocations
 + Level 10.0 Evocations


You have 21 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.
Your spell library contains the following spells:

 Spells                   Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
 Animate Skeleton         Necr           N/A          96%         1    ##.....
 Apportation              Tloc           #.....       96%         1    ##.....
 Beastly Appendage        Tmut           #.....       96%         1    ##.....
 Confusing Touch          Hex            #.....       96%         1    ##.....
 Corona                   Hex            #......      96%         1    ##.....
 Freeze                   Ice            #...         96%         1    ##.....
 Infusion                 Chrm           #...         96%         1    ##.....
 Magic Dart               Conj           #...         96%         1    ##.....
 Pain                     Necr           #...         96%         1    ##.....
 Sandblast                Erth           #.....       96%         1    ##.....
 Sting                    Conj/Pois      #...         96%         1    ##.....
 Summon Small Mammal      Summ           #...         96%         1    ##.....
 Blink                    Tloc           N/A          99%         2    ###....
 Call Imp                 Summ           #.......     99%         2    ###....
 Passwall                 Tmut/Erth      #.......     99%         2    ###....
 Shroud of Golubria       Chrm/Tloc      #.........   99%         2    ###....
 Slow                     Hex            #.......     99%         2    ###....
 Song of Slaying          Chrm           #.......     99%         2    ###....
 Sticks to Snakes         Tmut           #.......     99%         2    ###....
 Sublimation of Blood     Necr           #.........   99%         2    ###....
 Swiftness                Chrm/Air       #.......     99%         2    ###....
 Call Canine Familiar     Summ           #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Confuse                  Hex            #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Conjure Flame            Conj/Fire      #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Gell's Gravitas          Tloc           #.........   100%        3    ####...
 Ignite Poison            Fire/Tmut/Pois #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Inner Flame              Hex/Fire       #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Mephitic Cloud           Conj/Pois/Air  #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Portal Projectile        Hex/Tloc       #.....       100%        3    ####...
 Regeneration             Chrm/Necr      #.........   100%        3    ####...
 Spectral Weapon          Hex/Chrm       #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Spider Form              Tmut/Pois      #.........   100%        3    ####...
 Static Discharge         Conj/Air       #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Stone Arrow              Conj/Erth      #.....       100%        3    ####...
 Summon Guardian Golem    Hex/Summ       #.......     100%        3    ####...
 Vampiric Draining        Necr           #.........   100%        3    ####...
 Animate Dead             Necr           N/A          100%        4    #####..
 Cause Fear               Hex            #.........   100%        4    #####..
 Force Lance              Conj/Tloc      #.......     100%        4    #####..
 Ice Form                 Ice/Tmut       #.......     100%        4    #####..
 Leda's Liquefaction      Hex/Erth       #.........   100%        4    #####..
 Passage of Golubria      Tloc           N/A          100%        4    #####..
 Petrify                  Tmut/Erth      #.......     100%        4    #####..
 Summon Ice Beast         Ice/Summ       #.......     100%        4    #####..
 Summon Lightning Spire   Summ/Air       #.......     100%        4    #####..
 Alistair's Intoxication  Tmut/Pois      #.......     100%        5    ######.
 Blade Hands              Tmut           #.........   100%        5    ######.
 Irradiate                Conj/Tmut      #.........   100%        5    ######.
 Lee's Rapid Deconstruct  Erth           #.........   100%        5    ######.
 Metabolic Englaciation   Hex/Ice        #.........   100%        5    ######.
 Silence                  Hex/Air        #.........   100%        5    ######.
 Venom Bolt               Conj/Pois      #.........   100%        5    ######.
 Yara's Violent Unravell  Hex/Tmut       #.........   100%        5    ######.
 Conjure Ball Lightning   Conj/Air       #.........   100%        6    #######
 Darkness                 Hex            #.........   100%        6    #######
 Deflect Missiles         Chrm/Air       #.........   100%        6    #######
 Invisibility             Hex            #.......     100%        6    #######
 Haunt                    Necr/Summ      #.........   100%        7    #######
 Borgnjor's Revivificati  Necr           #.........   100%        8    #######
 Death's Door             Chrm/Necr      #.........   100%        8    #######
 Infestation              Necr           #.........   100%        8    #######
 Necromutation            Tmut/Necr      #.........   100%        8    #######
 Tornado                  Air            #.........   100%        9    #######


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5            Lair (6/6) D:10
 Shoals (4/4) Lair:3        Snake (4/4) Lair:2        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (1/2) D:12         Vaults (4/5) D:14          Crypt (0/3) Vaults:3
 Depths (3/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:4 (   D:6 %*   D:10 *   D:12 [   Depths:1 ==}

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3
Abyss: Depths:1
Pandemonium: Depths:1 Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:3
Trove: Vaults:4 (give 2 scrolls of acquirement)

Annotations:
D:12 exclusion: hungry ghost


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.
You are clumsy. (Dex -2)
Your magical capacity is low. (-10% MP)


Message History

Items here: ! " ))))))))))))))))) //// : ==== ?????? [[[[[[[[[[[ | }}}}
You drop a +4 broad axe of chopping.
Items here: ! " ))))))))))))))))) //// : ==== ?????? [[[[[[[[[[[ | }}}}
Drop what? 41/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You drop 13 throwing nets.
Items here: ! " ( ))))))))))))))))) //// : ==== ????? [[[[[[[[[[[ | }}}}
You drop the +0 pair of gloves of Defiance {+Blink Dex+3}.
You drop a wand of scattershot (4).
Save game and exit?
Welcome back, demeyt the Minotaur Fighter.
Okawaru says: Bring me glory in combat!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
Char dumped successfully.
Save game and exit?
Welcome back, demeyt the Minotaur Fighter.
Okawaru says: Bring me glory in combat!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
Items here: ! " ( )))))))))))))))) ///// : ==== ????? [[[[[[[[[[[ | }}}}
Char dumped successfully.
Save game and exit?

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..#.......#..P..@.....#.#.....#..
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'###.....#.......##....>#.....#..
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..#####'##....<.........#.....#..
...#....###'#######.....#.....#..
...'....##.......##....##.....#..


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Bai Suzhen (Vaults:4)
  Saint Roka (Vaults:4)
  Rupert (Snake:1)
  A titan (Shoals:3)
  Frances (Snake:1)
  2 krakens
  Gastronok (Lair:2)
  A sphinx (Vaults:1)
  Kirke (Lair:4)
  A tengu reaver (Vaults:4)
  9 nagarajas (Snake:4)
  A fire giant (Depths:1)
  Aizul (Snake:1)
  7 frost giants
  2 orc warlords (Orc:1)
  14 vault wardens
  A spriggan defender (Depths:3)
  14 ironheart preservers
  17 very ugly things
  15 stone giants
  2 vampire knights
  An entropy weaver (Vaults:3)
  An entropy weaver (shapeshifter) (Depths:3)
  Azrael (D:13)
  2 spark wasps (Depths:3)
  A dire elephant (Lair:5)
  2 minotaurs
  5 ettins
  7 merfolk javelineers
  7 fire dragons
  Snorg (D:11)
  3 deep elf death magi
  Josephine (D:10)
  7 hydras
  6 great orbs of eyes
  9 merfolk impalers
  19 vault guards
  The ghost of azarias the Slinger, a journeyman HaHu of Okawaru (D:15)
  9 rakshasas
  5 yaktaur captains
  An ice dragon (Depths:1)
  18 naga warriors
  A catoblepas (Lair:6)
  An alligator snapping turtle (Shoals:4)
  4 death knights
  10 ogre magi
  19 anacondas
  2 spriggan air magi (Depths:3)
  2 merfolk aquamancers
  3 merfolk avatars
  27 two-headed ogres
  13 centaur warriors
  6 deep troll shamans
  6 deep troll earth magi
  3 satyrs
  7 tengu warriors
  8 naga sharpshooters
  8 death yaks
  A vampire mage (Depths:3)
  10 shock serpents
  4 spriggan berserkers
  10 deep elf knights
  6 salamander mystics (Snake:4)
  Nergalle (D:11)
  An iron troll (Depths:1)
  The ghost of HaroldFreecs the Magician, a novice GnSk of Makhleb (D:8)
  A shadow wraith (Vaults:2)
  12 skeletal warriors
  24 deep trolls
  13 sea snakes
  An unseen horror (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  3 glowing orange brains
  A death drake (Gauntlet)
  6 deep elf archers
  2 wolf spider zombies
  A lindwurm (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  4 unseen horrors
  7 lindwurms
  A flayed ghost (Vaults:4)
  6 naga ritualists
  2 phantasmal warriors
  2 necromancers
  15 ironbrand convokers
  2 wolf spiders
  26 orc knights
  7 wizards
  15 deep elf magi
  12 mana vipers
  17 harpies
  9 orc sorcerers
  12 cyclopes
  A salamander (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  2 tengu skeletons (Vaults:3)
  12 elephants
  45 ugly things
  17 manticores
  8 salamanders
  2 spectral centaurs (Gauntlet)
  Maurice (D:9)
  8 fauns
  11 merfolk sirens
  24 naga magi
  16 vault sentinels
  A stone giant skeleton (Vaults:3)
  7 water nymphs
  40 black mambas
  A black mamba (shapeshifter) (Depths:3)
  2 human skeletons (Vaults:3)
  10 guardian serpents
  2 centaur zombies
  2 torpor snails (Lair:6)
  An orc skeleton (Vaults:3)
  7 spiny frogs
  7 centaur skeletons
  3 rime drakes
  A gargoyle (D:11)
  29 yaktaurs
  A redback zombie (D:15)
  10 komodo dragons
  A minotaur zombie (Gauntlet)
  An ice devil (Gauntlet)
  15 trolls
  2 tengu conjurers
  2 meliai (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  2 jumping spiders (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  29 merfolk
  6 meliai
  10 hornets
  8 freezing wraiths
  A queen bee (D:12)
  A hippogriff (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  A blink frog (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  34 slime creatures
  A meliai zombie (D:13)
  12 wind drakes
  15 blink frogs
  A snapping turtle (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  15 snapping turtles
  7 dream sheep
  14 hippogriffs
  8 flying skulls (Gauntlet)
  3 redbacks (Vaults:3)
  A vampire (D:14)
  An ettin skeleton (Vaults:3)
  6 spriggans (Depths:3)
  A tarantella (Vaults:3)
  11 wraiths
  A tarantella (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  2 shadows
  12 water elementals
  3 wyverns
  2 hogs (shapeshifter)
  A basilisk (Lair:6)
  3 hogs (Lair:4)
  A vampire mosquito (D:12)
  6 fire elementals (D:13)
  34 yaks
  3 steam dragons
  2 human simulacra (Vaults:2)
  2 hungry ghosts (D:12)
  Edmund (D:5)
  A yaktaur simulacrum (Vaults:2)
  18 wargs
  3 acid dragons
  31 nagas
  A water moccasin (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  A soldier ant (D:14)
  Duvessa (D:3)
  2 hell hounds (D:13)
  9 porcupines
  6 water moccasins
  53 orc warriors
  A meliai simulacrum (D:14)
  An ice beast (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  4 sky beasts
  An eye of draining (D:13)
  5 phantoms
  A black bear (D:5)
  5 ice beasts
  2 hornet zombies
  46 ogres
  A necrophage (D:6)
  6 boggarts
  16 centaurs
  9 wolves
  An elf skeleton (Vaults:3)
  2 big kobolds
  9 crocodiles
  A gnoll sergeant (D:9)
  A bullfrog (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  Dowan (D:3)
  19 bullfrogs
  2 wyvern zombies
  4 scorpions
  A wyvern skeleton (D:14)
  2 water moccasin skeletons
  44 killer bees
  16 wights
  8 electric eels
  7 crimson imps
  6 howler monkeys
  A bullfrog zombie (D:9)
  4 quasits
  6 bullfrog skeletons
  5 hounds
  8 jellies
  22 orc wizards
  23 orc priests
  3 iguanas
  A statue (D:6)
  9 worker ants
  A killer bee zombie (D:5)
  A hound zombie (D:6)
  A hound skeleton (D:5)
  8 mummies (Ossuary)
  A howler monkey skeleton (D:4)
  A worker ant zombie (D:10)
  6 gnolls
  11 adders
  4 shadow imps
  3 white imps
  An adder zombie (D:5)
  An adder skeleton (D:4)
  A worm (D:4)
  A dart slug (D:1)
  2 leopard geckos
  121 orcs
  7 giant cockroaches
  9 goblins
  12 hobgoblins
  6 jackals
  15 kobolds
  A quokka (D:5)
  2 ball pythons
  8 bats
  2 frilled lizards
  2 gnoll zombies (Ossuary)
  3 hobgoblin zombies (Ossuary)
  2 jackal skeletons
  2 kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  An orc zombie (Ossuary)
  2 quokka skeletons
  A quokka zombie (D:5)
  4 rats
  A butterfly (D:5)
  13 fungi
  28 plants
  3 tentacles (Shoals:2)
1827 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An ogre mage (Vaults:4)
  An unseen horror (D:14)
  A naga mage (Snake:4)
  3 humans (Lair:4)
  A naga (Snake:3)
  A boggart (Depths:3)
  An ogre (Vaults:3)
  A killer bee (D:12)
  A jelly (D:13)
  2 orc wizards
  A dart slug (D:3)
  2 orcs
  14 demonic plants (Gauntlet)
  9 fungi
  10 plants
  12 tentacles
61 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1888 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | demeyt the Minotaur Fighter began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 19/19 MP: 0/0
   103 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 27/27 MP: 1/1
   321 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
   538 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 33/33 MP: 2/2
   916 | D:2      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
   917 | D:2      | Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana.
   919 | D:2      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
   920 | D:2      | Found an ornate altar of the Wu Jian Council.
   920 | D:2      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
   921 | D:2      | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
   922 | D:2      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
   934 | D:2      | Became a worshipper of Warmaster Okawaru
  1225 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Dodging
  1267 | D:2      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  1616 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 32/40 MP: 3/3
  1900 | D:3      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  1993 | D:3      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  2367 | D:4      | Found Juengoe's Weapon Shop.
  2374 | D:4      | Noticed Dowan
  2374 | D:4      | Noticed Duvessa
  2394 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 41/47 MP: 4/4
  2661 | D:4      | Reached * piety under Okawaru
  2689 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  2736 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 51/55 MP: 5/5
  2778 | D:4      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  2797 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  2797 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
  3293 | D:3      | Killed Duvessa
  3303 | D:3      | Killed Dowan
  3303 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
  3303 | D:3      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 49/61 MP: 6/6
  3334 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3334 | D:5      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  3343 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  3896 | Ossuary  | Reached ** piety under Okawaru
  4175 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4284 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4499 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting
  4508 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Axes
  4536 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 66/70 MP: 8/8
  4690 | D:5      | Noticed Edmund
  4699 | D:5      | Killed Edmund
  4742 | D:5      | Reached *** piety under Okawaru
  4780 | D:5      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  5307 | D:6      | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting
  5307 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  5422 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 79/79 MP: 10/10
  5468 | D:6      | Found Jituakona's Food Shop.
  5887 | D:6      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  6006 | D:6      | Found Xiostip's Serpentskin Sales.
  6440 | D:7      | Reached **** piety under Okawaru
  6503 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting
  7240 | D:7      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  7396 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  7410 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  7410 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
  7410 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 66/90 MP: 10/12
  7808 | D:8      | Found a runed translucent gate.
  7809 | D:8      | Found a runed translucent gate.
  7809 | D:8      | Found a runed translucent gate.
  7811 | D:8      | Noticed HaroldFreecs's ghost (novice GnSk)
  8011 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  8027 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  8027 | D:8      | Reached ***** piety under Okawaru
  8027 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting
  8040 | D:8      | Got a smoking ring mail
  8258 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
  8647 | D:9      | Found the +6 arbalest "Damnation" {damnation}
  9548 | D:8      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 33/99 MP: 10/14
  9554 | D:8      | Received a gift from Okawaru
  9890 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  9901 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  9918 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
  9991 | D:9      | Noticed Maurice
 10006 | D:9      | Paralysed by Maurice for 2 turns
 10012 | D:9      | Paralysed by Maurice for 6 turns
 10072 | D:9      | Killed Maurice
 10283 | D:8      | Killed HaroldFreecs's ghost
 10283 | D:8      | Received a gift from Okawaru
 10286 | D:8      | Got a brightly glowing hat {god gift}
 10297 | D:8      | Identified the +2 hat "Geiwar" {MR+ Regen+ Int+4} (Okawaru
                  | gifted it to you on level 8 of the Dungeon)
 10379 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 10397 | D:10     | Found Plog's Assorted Antiques.
 10462 | D:10     | Got a smoking whip
 10533 | D:10     | Identified the +1 ring mail of the Dwarven Hall {Str+2}
                  | (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)
 10699 | D:10     | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 10751 | D:10     | Paralysed by a hornet for 1 turns
 10757 | D:10     | Noticed Josephine
 10821 | D:10     | Killed Josephine
 10821 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Axes
 11137 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 11188 | D:10     | Reached skill level 11 in Fighting
 11226 | D:10     | You fall through a shaft for 2 floors!
 11252 | D:12     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 11257 | D:12     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 11273 | D:12     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 11394 | D:12     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 67/110 MP: 7/15
 11517 | D:12     | Found Ynuukhug's Antique Armour Emporium.
 11547 | D:12     | Identified the +1 whip "Jybysed" {venom, Int+3} (You found
                  | it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 11566 | D:11     | Noticed Nergalle
 11574 | D:11     | Killed Nergalle
 11756 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Shields
 12603 | D:11     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 12642 | D:11     | Noticed Snorg
 12653 | D:11     | Killed Snorg
 12758 | D:12     | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 12778 | D:12     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 12791 | D:12     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 13150 | D:12     | Noticed a frost giant
 13259 | D:13     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 13260 | D:13     | Noticed Azrael
 13283 | D:13     | Killed Azrael
 13283 | D:13     | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 13449 | D:12     | Reached skill level 12 in Fighting
 13451 | D:12     | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 13475 | D:12     | Killed a 14-headed hydra
 13577 | D:12     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 13689 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 14045 | Lair:1   | Received a gift from Okawaru
 14053 | Lair:1   | Got a pair of twisted gloves {god gift}
 14064 | Lair:1   | Identified the +0 pair of gloves of Defiance {+Blink Dex+3}
                  | (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
 14219 | Lair:1   | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 14232 | Lair:1   | Killed a nine-headed hydra
 15043 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 119/119 MP: 17/17
 15065 | Lair:2   | Noticed Gastronok
 15213 | Lair:2   | Killed Gastronok
 15909 | Lair:2   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 16390 | Lair:3   | You fall through a shaft for 2 floors!
 16428 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 16496 | Lair:5   | Noticed a dire elephant
 16513 | Lair:5   | Killed a dire elephant
 16634 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 13 in Fighting
 16721 | Lair:4   | Noticed Kirke
 16768 | Lair:4   | Killed Kirke
 16810 | Lair:4   | Found a gate leading to a gauntlet.
 16819 | Gauntlet | Entered a Gauntlet
 16819 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16819 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16820 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16820 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16823 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16824 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16864 | Gauntlet | Received a gift from Okawaru
 16905 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16944 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16975 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 16978 | Gauntlet | Found a large runed translucent door.
 16978 | Gauntlet | Found a large runed translucent door.
 17159 | Gauntlet | Found a large runed translucent door.
 17159 | Gauntlet | Found a large runed translucent door.
 17171 | Gauntlet | Got a pair of spiked gloves
 17174 | Gauntlet | Identified the +1 pair of gloves "Opnututy" {rF- Str+4
                  | Int+3} (You found it in a Gauntlet)
 17179 | Gauntlet | Found a transporter.
 17211 | Gauntlet | Identified the cursed +2 great mace "Xinisusi" {drain,
                  | *Noise Dex+8 SInv}
 17211 | Gauntlet | Noticed a minotaur
 17229 | Gauntlet | Killed a minotaur
 17701 | Gauntlet | Found a runed translucent gate.
 17701 | Gauntlet | Found a runed translucent gate.
 18803 | Lair:3   | Got a steaming dagger
 18912 | Lair:3   | Identified 2 scrolls of acquirement
 18998 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 19286 | D:10     | Identified the +9 dagger of Indomitability {chaos, MP+9
                  | Str+3 Int-3 SInv} (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of
                  | Beasts)
 19303 | D:10     | Got a crystal broad axe
 19304 | D:10     | Identified the +0 broad axe "Ataifail" {drain, *Contam
                  | rElec rPois Dex+6} (You acquired it on level 10 of the
                  | Dungeon)
 19340 | D:10     | Gained mutation: Your magical capacity is low. (-10% MP)
                  | [mutagenic glow]
 20125 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 129/129 MP: 8/16
 21042 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 21051 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 14 in Fighting
 21107 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 21818 | Lair:6   | Received a gift from Okawaru
 21895 | Lair:6   | Gained mutation: You are clumsy. (Dex -2) [mutagenic glow]
 22128 | Lair:6   | Reached ****** piety under Okawaru
 22888 | D:12     | Killed a frost giant
 23243 | D:12     | Reached XP level 15. HP: 131/139 MP: 18/18
 23286 | D:12     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 23295 | D:12     | Got a bloodstained war axe {god gift}
 23296 | D:12     | Identified the +1 war axe of Wariness {drain, rElec Dex-5
                  | Stlth+} (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 12 of the
                  | Dungeon)
 23873 | D:12     | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 24408 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 24895 | Orc:1    | Found Soamen's Food Shop.
 24903 | Orc:1    | Bought a ration for 55 gold pieces
 24903 | Orc:1    | Bought a ration for 55 gold pieces
 24903 | Orc:1    | Bought a ration for 55 gold pieces
 24903 | Orc:1    | Bought a ration for 55 gold pieces
 24903 | Orc:1    | Bought a ration for 55 gold pieces
 24903 | Orc:1    | Bought a ration for 55 gold pieces
 24903 | Orc:1    | Bought a ration for 55 gold pieces
 25073 | Orc:1    | Noticed an orc warlord
 25093 | Orc:1    | Killed an orc warlord
 25182 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Okawaru
 25262 | Orc:1    | Noticed an orc warlord
 25282 | Orc:1    | Killed an orc warlord
 25282 | Orc:1    | Reached skill level 15 in Axes
 25406 | Orc:1    | Found the +7 lajatang of Order {silver, rMut}
 25428 | Orc:1    | Got an encrusted spear
 25450 | Orc:1    | Got a crude leather armour
 26205 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 26580 | D:14     | Got an iridescent war axe
 26581 | D:14     | Identified the +6 war axe "Ebouf" {venom, rC+} (You found
                  | it on level 14 of the Dungeon)
 26909 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 26910 | D:15     | Noticed azarias's ghost (journeyman HaHu)
 27124 | D:15     | Found a runed translucent gate.
 27124 | D:15     | Found a runed translucent gate.
 27124 | D:15     | Found a runed translucent gate.
 27165 | D:15     | Killed azarias's ghost
 27176 | D:15     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 27446 | D:15     | Reached XP level 16. HP: 149/151 MP: 19/19
 27561 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 27618 | D:15     | Reached skill level 16 in Fighting
 28332 | D:10     | Got a pair of faintly humming boots
 28343 | D:10     | Identified the +1 pair of boots of Raugaza {rPois MR+++
                  | Str-5} (You acquired it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 28420 | Snake:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit
 28515 | Snake:1  | Received a gift from Okawaru
 28844 | Snake:1  | Noticed Frances
 28892 | Snake:1  | Killed Frances
 28996 | Snake:1  | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 29012 | Snake:1  | Noticed Aizul
 29029 | Snake:1  | Killed Aizul
 29206 | Snake:1  | Noticed Rupert
 29239 | Snake:1  | Killed Rupert
 30130 | Snake:2  | You fall through a shaft!
 30282 | Snake:3  | Received a gift from Okawaru
 30292 | Snake:3  | Got a twisted chain mail {god gift}
 30431 | Snake:3  | Identified the +9 chain mail "Ibefyn" {rPois Str-4 Int-2
                  | Dex+10} (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Snake
                  | Pit)
 32000 | Snake:4  | Entered Level 4 of the Snake Pit
 32073 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations
 32073 | Snake:4  | Reached XP level 17. HP: 149/160 MP: 21/21
 32161 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 17 in Fighting
 32719 | Snake:4  | Received a gift from Okawaru
 32724 | Snake:4  | Got a crude battleaxe {god gift}
 32894 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations
 33749 | Snake:4  | Received a gift from Okawaru
 33775 | Snake:4  | Got a bloodstained broad axe {god gift}
 33785 | Snake:4  | Identified the +6 broad axe "Bisy" {chop, Str+4 Dex+7
                  | Stlth-} (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 4 of the Snake
                  | Pit)
 34162 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 18 in Fighting
 34236 | Snake:4  | Got a serpentine rune of Zot
 34547 | Snake:4  | Reached XP level 18. HP: 157/172 MP: 21/21
 34870 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
 35084 | Shoals:1 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 36139 | Shoals:2 | Found a transporter.
 36301 | Shoals:2 | Found a transporter.
 36353 | Shoals:2 | Paralysed by the power of Zot for 4 turns
 36416 | Shoals:2 | Got a glittering granite ring
 36442 | Shoals:2 | Got a sparkling lead ring
 36444 | Shoals:2 | Identified the Compendium of Blows and Bruises and Cold
 36458 | Shoals:2 | Identified the ring of Warphi Wyemn {Wiz MR+} (You found it
                  | on level 2 of the Shoals)
 36460 | Shoals:2 | Identified the ring of Piamn {rN+ Slay+2} (You found it on
                  | level 2 of the Shoals)
 36699 | Shoals:3 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 36699 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Shields
 36714 | Shoals:3 | Identified the +2 battleaxe "Goynk" {distort, rElec rPois
                  | rC- Int+2} (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 4 of the
                  | Snake Pit)
 36813 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 19 in Fighting
 37018 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Armour
 37308 | Shoals:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Shoals
 37625 | Shoals:4 | Identified the +2 quarterstaff "Egiatum" {crush, *Corrode
                  | rN+ Int+2 Dex+2}
 38059 | Shoals:4 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 122/179 MP: 16/22
 38062 | Shoals:4 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 38084 | Shoals:4 | Got a barnacled rune of Zot
 38098 | Shoals:4 | Got a transparent battleaxe {god gift}
 38442 | D:10     | Identified the +1 battleaxe of Tender Mercy {freeze, *Drain
                  | rC+ MR++ Dex+4} (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 4 of the
                  | Shoals)
 42085 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 42135 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
 42393 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 20 in Fighting
 42739 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 43199 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 43469 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Maces & Flails
 43469 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
 44480 | Vaults:2 | Reached XP level 20. HP: 190/190 MP: 23/23
 44512 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 44823 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 21 in Fighting
 44925 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails
 44943 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 44953 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
 45347 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 45804 | Vaults:3 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 46524 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 206/206 MP: 24/24
 46609 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 10 in Throwing
 46645 | Vaults:4 | Identified the ring "Diamn" {rF+ MR+++ Str-2 SInv}
 46682 | Vaults:4 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 46682 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 22 in Fighting
 46701 | Vaults:4 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 46966 | Vaults:4 | Noticed Saint Roka
 46984 | Vaults:4 | Killed Saint Roka
 47105 | Vaults:4 | Noticed Bai Suzhen
 47138 | Vaults:4 | Killed Bai Suzhen
 47150 | Vaults:4 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 47295 | Vaults:4 | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 47535 | Vaults:4 | Got a faintly glowing scimitar
 48583 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 48606 | Depths:1 | Found Ciofufakk's Jewellery Shop.
 48608 | Depths:1 | Found Ufuoqerph's Gadget Emporium.
 48610 | Depths:1 | Found Telegeq's Jewellery Shop.
 48908 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to Hell.
 49129 | Depths:1 | Found a one-way gate to the infinite horrors of the Abyss.
 49184 | Depths:1 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 49303 | Depths:1 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 49452 | Depths:1 | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium.
 49728 | Depths:2 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 49971 | Depths:2 | Reached XP level 22. HP: 197/217 MP: 25/25
 50814 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 23 in Fighting
 50909 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails
 51219 | Depths:3 | Found a gateway to a ziggurat.
 51322 | Depths:3 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 51332 | Depths:3 | Got a steaming hat {god gift}
 51343 | Depths:3 | Identified the +0 hat of the Guilds {*Slow rPois Str-4
                  | Int+8} (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Depths)

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Armour         |     4        5     6  7  8     9 10 11 12    13 14 15 16 17    18 | 18.2
Shields        |     4           5  6  7  8  9    10 11 12    13 14 15 16 17    18 | 18.2
Fighting       |     4           5  6  7  8  9 11 12 13 14 15 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 | 23.3
Dodging        |        1     2  3  4  5  6  7  8     9 10 11    12 13 14 15 16    | 16.4
Axes           |        3        4  5  6  7  9 10 11 13 14 15 16 17 18             | 18.0
Evocations     |                 1  2  3  4  5  6  7     8  9 10                   | 10.0
Invocations    |                          1  2  4  5  6  7  8  9 10                | 10.0
Throwing       |                                                        6  9 11 12 | 12.8
Maces & Flails |                                                        3  7  9 10 | 10.3

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: War axe           |    93 |   118 |   377 |   853 |   330 |       |       |       ||  1771
       Headbutt          |    12 |    24 |    77 |   174 |   354 |   455 |   451 |   102 ||  1649
       Broad axe         |       |       |       |       |   789 |  1306 |  1272 |   286 ||  3653
       Dagger            |       |       |       |       |     4 |       |       |       ||     4
Throw: Throwing net      |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Javelin           |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
Invok: Heroism           |       |       |     6 |    20 |    24 |    18 |     6 |     4 ||    78
       Finesse           |       |       |       |     9 |    16 |     4 |     1 |     2 ||    32
 Abil: Evoke Blink       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |       |       ||     2
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |     6 |    16 |     8 |       |       ||    30
  Use: Scroll            |       |     8 |     6 |    12 |    18 |     7 |     5 |       ||    56
       Potion            |       |       |     2 |     2 |     6 |     4 |     1 |     1 ||    16
 Stab: Distracted        |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     2 |     6 |    10 |    24 |    27 |    32 |    22 |     4 ||   127
       Ration            |       |       |     1 |     1 |     6 |     1 |     5 |     1 ||    15
Armor: Scale mail        |    32 |    52 |   135 |    34 |       |       |       |       ||   253
       Plate armour      |       |       |       |   382 |   380 |   281 |   165 |    53 ||  1261
Dodge: Dodged            |    39 |    61 |   171 |   283 |   447 |   610 |   359 |    87 ||  2057
Block: Shield            |    62 |    72 |   239 |   526 |   764 |   325 |       |       ||  1988
       Large shield      |       |       |       |       |       |   932 |  1012 |   244 ||  2188

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6251

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Monday, 1st July 2019, 17:35

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

demeyt wrote:Below is my current character dump. Doing depths now and I feel a bit over powered.

My idea is to wait with using my enchantment scrolls until I have found the best armor & weapon, then max it out. Does that make sense?

No, it's nearly never a good idea to wait "until you find the best" armour and weapons, you should find stuff that's "good enough" and enchant that, where "good enough" is in 95% of all cases "the best thing you've found so far when you pick up the scroll" Another way to look at it is these scrolls increase the odds that you'll live to find that next-better weapon, if you don't ever find it (because you die or win), then having the scrolls and not have used them just reduced your chances of winning, whereas having used a scroll on a weapon or armour and then replacing it pretty much just means you have to wait slightly longer to find another scroll, which you've already increased your chances of finding by way of increasing your odds of living longer.

The only time it's really *ever* worth hanging on to one of these scrolls is if you're in a part of the game which is very easy for you *and* you haven't yet found something that's very common and easy to find which would be an upgrade for what you're using, and even that's questionable (the RNG sometimes just is stingy even with common items)

demeyt wrote:Through cross-training I also need minimal investment to train Maces to the max level for an evening star ( I have found a plain +0 one). Maybe even switch to that for the end of the game. Is that worth it?

No, eveningstars are only minimally better than broad axes against a single opponent, there's no point in wasting XP to switch to a nearly-equal weapon. For one-handed weapons, broad axes, eveningstars, demon blades, double swords, demon whips, demon tridents are all in the same tier, and are roughly equal (with some weapons requiring more XP to get to min delay, but once you've spent the XP to get min delay in broad axes, it's not really worth it to switch.)
If you find some really amazing randart of a cross-training type, it might just barely be worth it to cross train to min delay, but only once you're done with the rest of your training

Ideally you'd have a few weapons of the same category with different brands to provide *flexibility* in optimizing for a given type of fight (so you can switch around for different types of fights) and you should make investing more in weapon skills your last priority. Some very helpful but situational brands are vampiric and antimagic, if you stumble across a broad axe of either of those types, definitely pick them up and make use of them when appropriate, chopping is a "decent against everything" brand, it's not as good as some of the brands damage wise, but there's nothing that resists it either, you can definitely win the game with a +6 broad axe of chopping.

Evocations makes a decent ranged option (you definitely want some ability to damage at range, it helps a lot), as does throwing, I would stop evocation training at 10 if you're training throwing though (Stop throwing at 16)
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bel

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Post Monday, 1st July 2019, 18:05

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

Character looks fine. Don't die due to hubris.

You can train Axes past 18 (which is min-delay for broad axe). The extra training increases damage, and more damage is always good.

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Post Tuesday, 2nd July 2019, 09:43

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

Siegurt wrote:Stop throwing at 16

Why stop throwing at 16? If you train throwing high enough it will start out-damaging the broad axe.
I belief that throwing skill gives you an extra point of base damage for every point of skill. As a result throwing a javelin with 27 skill will greatly out-damage a broad-axe at 27 skill. Plus, all javelins are piercing now.

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Post Tuesday, 2nd July 2019, 15:50

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

petercordia wrote:
Siegurt wrote:Stop throwing at 16

Why stop throwing at 16? If you train throwing high enough it will start out-damaging the broad axe.
I belief that throwing skill gives you an extra point of base damage for every point of skill. As a result throwing a javelin with 27 skill will greatly out-damage a broad-axe at 27 skill. Plus, all javelins are piercing now.

16 is min delay for javelins, beyond that you're getting less bang for your buck, (Similar rationale to not training most weapons past min delay until much much later) not to say you should *never train throwing ever again* but that's a good stopping point to go focus on defense or something. That was meant as short-term advice, not "forever advice" I wouldn't recommend training axes to 27 either, and yes, I'd probably train throwing to 27 before axes, although frankly in a 3 rune game, I'm unlikely to approach 27 in either one (if I'm at 27 in anything at the end of a 3 rune game it's probably going to be fighting)
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Post Thursday, 4th July 2019, 00:43

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

What's your opinion on gold dragon scales? rF+ rC+ rPois and can be enchanted +12.
Is it better than crystal armor?

Mines Malingerer

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Post Thursday, 4th July 2019, 04:11

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

If you need the resists, then gold dragon armor. If you can max your resists other ways then use crystal plate, as it has higher damage reduction. Your goal should be the crystal plate, if you can get the rest of your gear in order.
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Post Thursday, 4th July 2019, 06:21

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

There's no need to max your resists. A single pip is enough and you shouldn't compromise your AC or EV even for that single pip. For Zot you want at least rF+.

The resists seem to be already covered in that character dump. The rPois from GDS is not important.
...CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}
DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}
DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}

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petercordia

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Post Thursday, 4th July 2019, 15:02

Re: Newby advice for Minotaur Fighter

demeyt wrote:What's your opinion on gold dragon scales? rF+ rC+ rPois and can be enchanted +12.
Is it better than crystal armor?


Gold dragon armour is almost always better. Even if you have gear to get resists in other slots, there is an opportunity cost to using that gear. You have to ask yourself what you could use in those other slots (that cover your rF+, rC+ and poison). There are cases where GDA might not be the right choice, for example if crystal plate is artefact with other properties, or if you have a ring that looks like "rF++ rC++ str+6 slay+3" or something similar. The general rule of thumb I'd offer you is to look at the gear you have that is absolutely awesome and you'll always want to use it because it is so good, and make the rest of your decisions based around those items. Keep your defenses balanced and only leave holes in resists with very good reason.

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