Blaster caster questions


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

at

Temple Termagant

Posts: 11

Joined: Saturday, 13th April 2019, 16:33

Post Thursday, 2nd May 2019, 20:14

Blaster caster questions

So I felt like getting the conjuration blaster caster experience. Vehumet because wanted pure blaster caster. Human because no special pros or cons should provide the true blaster caster experience and still bring some defence.

It has been painstakingly slow, I didn't feel like auto explore was up to the task of keeping me alive.

I know feel like killing everything by conjurations is not going to work out. My food is running out and I'm afraid of spreading myself to thin by investing into to many magic schools.

I've been unable to clear lair:5 because I feel I need to kill the mobs one by one and the hunger cost is to great. So I'll leave and head for orc.

The game gifted me with some nice weapons and lots of spells on lair:5, no 5+ fire spells though.

I'm thinking the correct play to win the game (even though this goes against my initial intentions of how I wanted to play) would be to use the crossbow, get lightening spire, get animate skeleton, train crossbow and take it sort of easy with the conjurations for a while.
Do you agree?

Is it realistic to do only conjurations like I've tried to do, if so how should I continue to achieve this?

I feel like stealth is very much a reason I'm still alive. Most uniques have been sleeping when I've first seen them. I've yet to train stealth, is there some good rule of thumb how much stealth I need to make it sort of reliable for me to be able to retreat undetected?

Do stealth checks happen on the move taking you out of line of sight of mobs?

Also it was most frustrating having to abandon Volcano since first the first mob was completely immune to both fire and negative. Are there combinations of elements that are often good or bad in regards to monster immunities?

Comments on play and how to continue is most welcome.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.23.2 (tiles) character file.

Game seed: 1949752342323023933

Ywypal the Blocker (Human Fire Elementalist)       Turns: 35099, Time: 09:50:30

Health: 108/108    AC:  6    Str: 10    XL:     14   Next: 53%
Magic:  27/27      EV: 16    Int: 19    God:    Vehumet [****..]
Gold:   1219       SH: 11    Dex: 14    Spells: 7/31 levels left

rFire    . . .     SeeInvis .   A - +10 hand crossbow {elec, rPois MR+}
rCold    + . .     Gourm    .   L - +0 shield
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   P - +0 troll leather armour
rPois    +         Spirit   .   O - +0 helmet
rElec    .         Reflect  .   (no cloak)
rCorr    .         Harm     .   n - +0 pair of gloves
MR       ++...                  (no boots)
Stlth    ++........             (no amulet)
HPRegen  0.68/turn              T - ring of protection from cold
MPRegen  0.20/turn              (no ring)

@: no status effects
A: no striking features
a: Renounce Religion


You are on level 11 of the Dungeon.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is greatly pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 18 of its levels.
You have also visited: Volcano.

You have collected 1315 gold pieces.
You have spent 96 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 e - the +7 spear of the Peculiar Beds {drain, MR+ Int+2}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   A truly terrible weapon, it drains the life of those it strikes.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 u - the +10 trident of Sharkskin {pain, Str+5}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   In the hands of one skilled in necromantic magic, it inflicts extra damage
   on living creatures.
   
   It affects your strength (+5).
 A - the +10 hand crossbow of a Gauntlet (weapon) {elec, rPois MR+}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It charges the ammunition it shoots with electricity; occasionally upon a
   hit, such missiles may discharge and cause terrible harm.
   
   It protects you from poison.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 F - a +2 falchion of flaming
 G - the +8 halberd of Vanity {chop, rF- rC+ MR++ Dex+4}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 S - a +1 hand axe of electrocution
Missiles
 B - 97 bolts (quivered)
 D - a throwing net
Armour
 n - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 E - a +0 buckler
 I - a +2 robe of cold resistance
 L - a +0 shield (worn)
 O - a +0 helmet (worn)
 P - a +0 troll leather armour (worn)
 U - the +1 leather armour of the Wild Haggis {rF+ Int+3}
   (You took it off Joseph on level 7 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
Magical Staves
 a - an uncursed staff of death
 j - an uncursed staff of air
 x - an uncursed staff of earth
Jewellery
 f - an uncursed ring of ice
 T - a ring of protection from cold (left hand)
Wands
 o - a wand of flame (29)
 p - a wand of random effects (11)
 v - a wand of polymorph (7)
 J - a wand of enslavement (7)
 M - a wand of disintegration (28)
Scrolls
 b - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon
 g - a scroll of holy word
 i - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 k - 5 scrolls of fog
 l - 4 scrolls of enchant armour
 m - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 r - 3 scrolls of identify
 w - a scroll of amnesia
 y - 4 scrolls of teleportation
 C - 2 scrolls of immolation
 H - 4 scrolls of fear
 K - a scroll of noise
Potions
 d - a potion of flight
 h - a potion of cancellation
 q - 4 potions of curing
 s - 3 potions of lignification
 t - 2 potions of invisibility
 z - a potion of resistance
 N - a potion of brilliance
 Q - 2 potions of heal wounds
 R - 3 potions of berserk rage
Comestibles
 c - 3 rations


   Skills:
 - Level 9,1 Fighting
 + Level 8,9 Dodging
 - Level 2,0 Stealth
 - Level 11,1 Shields
 + Level 9,2 Spellcasting
 - Level 10,2 Conjurations
 - Level 5,0 Necromancy
 - Level 1,0 Translocations
 - Level 9,3 Fire Magic
 - Level 3,0 Air Magic
 - Level 3,0 Poison Magic


You have 7 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      #####        1%          1    None
b - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      #####.       1%          2    None
c - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      #####...     1%          3    None
d - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      #####...     1%          4    ###....
e - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #####.....   2%          5    #####..
f - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ####....     1%          3    None
g - Bolt of Draining      Conj/Necr      #####.....   6%          5    #####..
h - Apportation           Tloc           ##....       12%         1    None

Your spell library contains the following spells:

 Spells                   Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
 Bolt of Cold             Conj/Ice       ####......   61%         6    ######.
 Sting                    Conj/Pois      ####         1%          1    None
 Dazzling Spray           Conj/Hex       ####..       1%          3    None
 Animate Skeleton         Necr           N/A          2%          1    None
 Ignite Poison            Fire/Tmut/Pois ###.....     2%          3    None
 Inner Flame              Hex/Fire       ####....     2%          3    None
 Poisonous Vapours        Pois/Air       ###...       8%          2    None
 Venom Bolt               Conj/Pois      ####......   9%          5    #####..
 Olgreb's Toxic Radiance  Pois           ###.....     14%         4    ###....
 Confusing Touch          Hex            #.....       19%         1    None
 Summon Small Mammal      Summ           #...         19%         1    None
 Conjure Ball Lightning   Conj/Air       ####......   41%         6    ######.
 Summon Guardian Golem    Hex/Summ       #.......     50%         3    None
 Summon Lightning Spire   Summ/Air       ##......     69%         4    ###....
 Yara's Violent Unravell  Hex/Tmut       #.........   75%         5    #####..
 Cause Fear               Hex            #.........   88%         4    ###....
 Silence                  Hex/Air        ##........   95%         5    #####..
 Darkness                 Hex            #.........   100%        6    ######.
 Deflect Missiles         Chrm/Air       ##........   100%        6    ######.
 Discord                  Hex            #.........   100%        8    #######
 Tornado                  Air            ###.......   100%        9    #######


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (12/15)            Temple (0/1) D:5            Lair (6/6) D:8
 Shoals (0/4) Lair:3       Spider (0/4) Lair:4        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
   Orc: D:9-12     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Hepliaklqana
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Beogh

Shops:
D:8 ?

Annotations:
D:10 exclusion: 2 downstairs
Lair:2 exclusion: oklob plant
Lair:4 beware volcano mobs!
Lair:5 exclusion: 3 oklob plants
Lair:6 vaults left, death yaks

Message History

Okay, then.
Casting: Bolt of Draining (safe; 6% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You can't see any susceptible monsters within range! (Use Z to cast anyway.)
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Casting: Bolt of Draining (safe; 6% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You can't see any susceptible monsters within range! (Use Z to cast anyway.)
Casting: Bolt of Draining (safe; 6% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You can't see any susceptible monsters within range! (Use Z to cast anyway.)
Your movement speed is average.
Your attack speed is quite slow (and is slowed by your insufficient shield
skill).
Char dumped to 'C:/Users/Ove/AppData/Roaming/crawl/morgue/Ywypal.txt'.
Unknown command.
Saving game... please wait.

... ########[#...###....#....#########
           #)....#......#....#........
           #.....#......#....#........
           #.....#......#.>..#........
           #...<.#....z.#....#........
           #.....#......#....#........
           #...(.#......#....#........
           ###########..######.....#..
              #....................#..
              #....................#..
              #....................#..
              #....................#..
              #....@...............#..
              #....................#..
              ########################


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Fannar (Lair:1)
  5 hydras
  Erolcha (D:9)
  A catoblepas (Lair:2)
  A two-headed ogre (D:8)
  A death yak (Lair:6)
  2 unseen horrors (D:10)
  A lindwurm (Lair:4)
  An oklob plant (Lair:5)
  An ugly thing (D:12)
  10 elephants
  3 black mambas
  Joseph (D:7)
  The ghost of Fawysot the Skirmisher, a novice FoFi of Hepliaklqana (D:5)
  5 spiny frogs
  7 komodo dragons
  A rime drake (Lair:3)
  A troll (D:12)
  2 polar bears (Lair:6)
  A hornet (D:8)
  Prince Ribbit (D:7)
  12 hippogriffs
  2 slime creatures (Lair:5)
  12 dream sheep
  Sigmund (D:6)
  3 wyverns
  40 yaks
  6 basilisks
  A human (D:11)
  Eustachio (D:6)
  2 hungry ghosts (D:11)
  2 wargs (D:11)
  10 water moccasins
  3 porcupines
  4 ice beasts
  3 sky beasts
  A black bear (D:9)
  7 orc warriors
  5 ogres
  2 phantoms
  6 centaurs
  6 wolves (Lair:6)
  21 crocodiles
  2 eyes of draining (D:10)
  Blork the orc (D:6)
  4 big kobolds
  19 bullfrogs
  2 gnoll sergeants
  A water moccasin zombie (D:10)
  6 scorpions
  10 killer bees
  A wight (D:6)
  2 howler monkeys
  4 crimson imps
  7 hounds
  2 centaur zombies
  4 bullfrog zombies
  4 centaur skeletons
  5 jellies
  11 orc priests
  4 bullfrog skeletons
  3 iguanas
  12 orc wizards
  2 worker ants
  A worker ant zombie (D:8)
  9 adders
  8 gnolls
  A shadow imp (D:6)
  An ooze (D:2)
  An adder zombie (D:4)
  9 worms
  3 dart slugs
  6 leopard geckos
  69 orcs
  9 giant cockroaches
  9 hobgoblins
  9 jackals
  17 kobolds
  2 quokkas
  2 ball pythons
  13 bats
  5 frilled lizards
  8 goblins
  A quokka skeleton (D:4)
  9 rats
  3 plants (Lair:5)
499 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  2 bushes (D:5)
  13 fungi
  17 plants
32 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 531 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Learned a level 1 spell: Flame Tongue
     0 | D:1      | Ywypal the Human Fire Elementalist began the quest for the
                  | Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 13/13 MP: 3/3
   316 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 19/19 MP: 5/5
   906 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/24 MP: 3/6
  1514 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/30 MP: 3/8
  1565 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame
  2669 | D:2      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  2670 | D:2      | Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana.
  2670 | D:2      | Noticed a Killer Klown
  2671 | D:2      | Noticed a Killer Klown
  2671 | D:2      | Noticed a spectral ugly thing
  2831 | D:3      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  2834 | D:3      | Became a worshipper of Vehumet
  3158 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 35/35 MP: 5/9
  3195 | D:2      | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Flame
  3653 | D:2      | HP: 1/35 [orc (5)]
  5338 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 35/41 MP: 1/10
  6598 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  6699 | D:5      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  7059 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 22/47 MP: 9/11
  7242 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  7440 | D:5      | Reached * piety under Vehumet
  7440 | D:5      | Offered knowledge of Sandblast by Vehumet.
  7579 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  7603 | D:5      | Found a runed translucent door.
  7603 | D:5      | Noticed Fawysot's ghost (novice FoFi)
  7606 | D:5      | You fall through a shaft for 3 floors!
  8076 | D:8      | Noticed a wyvern
  8079 | D:8      | a wyvern changed into a scorpion
  8184 | D:8      | Learned a level 4 spell: Sticky Flame
  8296 | D:7      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/58 MP: 8/12
  8869 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  9325 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  9943 | D:5      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  9943 | D:5      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  9944 | D:5      | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
 10058 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
 10058 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic
 10171 | D:6      | Noticed Sigmund
 10312 | D:6      | Noticed Eustachio
 10312 | D:6      | Noticed Blork the orc
 10523 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 26/68 MP: 4/13
 10838 | D:7      | Noticed a hippogriff
 10871 | D:7      | Killed a hippogriff
 11520 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
 11912 | D:7      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
 12172 | D:7      | Noticed Joseph
 12966 | D:5      | Killed Fawysot's ghost
 13148 | D:5      | Learned a level 5 spell: Fireball
 13339 | D:7      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 14/76 MP: 9/19
 13989 | D:8      | Found Donweo's Magic Scroll Shop.
 13993 | D:8      | Bought a scroll of identify for 24 gold pieces
 13993 | D:8      | Bought a scroll of identify for 24 gold pieces
 13993 | D:8      | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 36 gold pieces
 13993 | D:8      | Bought a scroll of random uselessness for 12 gold pieces
 14726 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 14770 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 14847 | D:8      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
 15076 | D:8      | Reached ** piety under Vehumet
 15078 | D:8      | Offered knowledge of Sting by Vehumet.
 15982 | D:9      | Noticed a three-headed hydra
 15997 | D:9      | Killed a three-headed hydra
 15997 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 72/81 MP: 17/20
 16023 | D:9      | Got a polished halberd
 16024 | D:9      | Identified the +8 halberd of Vanity {chop, rF- rC+ MR++
                  | Dex+4} (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
 16709 | D:9      | Offered knowledge of Searing Ray by Vehumet.
 16734 | D:9      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
 16787 | D:9      | Noticed Erolcha
 16971 | D:9      | Killed Erolcha
 17281 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 17668 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 17917 | D:10     | Noticed an unseen horror
 17920 | D:10     | Killed an unseen horror
 17920 | D:10     | Reached skill level 2 in Shields
 17964 | D:10     | Reached *** piety under Vehumet
 18509 | D:10     | Reached skill level 3 in Shields
 18556 | D:10     | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 18939 | D:10     | Offered knowledge of Mephitic Cloud by Vehumet.
 18944 | D:10     | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud
 19113 | D:10     | Noticed an unseen horror
 19117 | D:10     | Killed an unseen horror
 19117 | D:10     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 89/92 MP: 15/22
 19120 | D:10     | Reached skill level 4 in Shields
 19927 | D:6      | Killed Sigmund
 19927 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
 19927 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Poison Magic
 20107 | D:6      | Reached **** piety under Vehumet
 20233 | D:6      | Killed Eustachio
 20336 | D:6      | Killed Blork the orc
 20661 | D:7      | Killed Prince Ribbit
 20798 | D:7      | Identified the cursed +1 leather armour of the Wild Haggis
                  | {rF+ Int+3}
 21535 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 21696 | D:11     | You fall through a shaft!
 21699 | D:12     | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Draining by Vehumet.
 21720 | D:12     | Learned a level 5 spell: Bolt of Draining
 21833 | D:12     | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy
 22170 | D:11     | Noticed a skeletal warrior
 22235 | D:11     | Noticed a skeletal warrior
 22557 | D:11     | Noticed a skeletal warrior
 23081 | D:7      | Killed Joseph
 23398 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 23759 | Lair:1   | Noticed Fannar
 24435 | Lair:2   | Noticed a catoblepas
 25239 | Lair:3   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 25381 | Lair:2   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 25590 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 69/101 MP: 19/25
 25660 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 25805 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 6 in Shields
 26037 | Lair:3   | Got a polished spear
 26180 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 7 in Shields
 26459 | Lair:3   | Reached ***** piety under Vehumet
 26475 | Lair:3   | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Cold by Vehumet.
 26594 | Lair:3   | Identified the +7 spear of the Peculiar Beds {drain, MR+
                  | Int+2} (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)
 26955 | Lair:1   | Killed Fannar
 26955 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 8 in Shields
 27158 | Lair:2   | Killed a catoblepas
 27403 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 9 in Shields
 27681 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 27876 | Lair:4   | Found a dark tunnel.
 27898 | Volcano  | Entered a volcano
 28511 | Lair:4   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 29714 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 10 in Shields
 29909 | Lair:5   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 29912 | Lair:5   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 30258 | Lair:5   | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
 30410 | Lair:5   | Got a jewelled hand crossbow
 30411 | Lair:5   | Identified the +10 hand crossbow of a Gauntlet {elec, rPois
                  | MR+} (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)
 30833 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 11 in Shields
 30944 | Lair:5   | Got a fine trident
 31291 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 31365 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 31419 | Lair:6   | Identified the +10 trident of Sharkskin {pain, Str+5} (You
                  | found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)
 31668 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 108/108 MP: 6/26
 32792 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Necromancy
 33025 | Lair:6   | Learned a level 1 spell: Apportation
 33027 | Lair:6   | Identified Sif Muna's Incunabulum of the Blaze and
                  | Enchantment (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 33358 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations
 33455 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------+-----
Conjurations   |        2     3     4  5  6  8  9       10 | 10,2
Dodging        |           3     4  5        7           8 |  8,9
Spellcasting   |           3              6        8     9 |  9,2
Fire Magic     |                 4     5  6  8  9          |  9,3
Fighting       |                    3  5  6     7  9       |  9,1
Shields        |                                3  4 11    | 11,1
Air Magic      |                                   3       |  3,0
Poison Magic   |                                   3       |  3,0
Necromancy     |                                   4     5 |  5,0
Translocations |                                         1 |  1,0
Stealth        |                                           |  2,0

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Mace              |     4 |     2 |       |       |       ||     6
       Club              |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Unarmed           |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Spear             |       |    27 |       |       |    93 ||   120
       Trident           |       |     7 |    39 |       |    13 ||    59
       Long sword        |       |       |    61 |    19 |       ||    80
       Falchion          |       |       |       |    41 |       ||    41
       Halberd           |       |       |       |    17 |       ||    17
       Staff             |       |       |       |     2 |    21 ||    23
Throw: Tomahawk          |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
 Cast: Flame Tongue      |    52 |   158 |   237 |   655 |   395 ||  1497
       Conjure Flame     |       |     4 |     6 |    15 |     2 ||    27
       Throw Flame       |       |    21 |     7 |     5 |    31 ||    64
       Sticky Flame      |       |       |       |    17 |     1 ||    18
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |       |       |    16 |     2 ||    18
       Bolt of Draining  |       |       |       |    31 |   126 ||   157
       Fireball          |       |       |       |     6 |     5 ||    11
       Apportation       |       |       |       |       |     3 ||     3
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     3 |       |     2 ||     5
  Use: Scroll            |       |     8 |     6 |    14 |     5 ||    33
       Potion            |       |       |     4 |     3 |     1 ||     8
 Stab: Sleeping          |     4 |     1 |       |       |       ||     5
  Eat: Chunk             |     2 |    11 |     4 |    18 |    27 ||    62
       Ration            |       |     3 |     4 |    11 |    10 ||    28
Armor: Robe              |     6 |     9 |    17 |    24 |       ||    56
       Leather armour    |       |       |    39 |    30 |     1 ||    70
       Troll leather arm |       |       |       |    12 |    38 ||    50
Dodge: Dodged            |    10 |    69 |   208 |   316 |   166 ||   769
Block: Buckler           |       |       |       |    43 |    35 ||    78
       Shield            |       |       |       |       |    55 ||    55
Rpst.: Long sword        |       |       |    30 |    21 |       ||    51
       Falchion          |       |       |       |    26 |       ||    26

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Slime Squisher

Posts: 405

Joined: Sunday, 27th January 2019, 13:50

Post Thursday, 2nd May 2019, 20:57

Re: Blaster caster questions

Just by looking through your action counts, the most used spells are flame tongue, bolt of draining, and throw flame. You barely used conjure flame and fireball, both of which are solid spells. Honestly, the more recommendable caster backgrounds to start with (at least to me) would be EE or Cj. The reasoning is quite simple: many enemies have resistances and immunities that screw up your plans. Just about all casters can supplement their primary element, in this case fire, with either another element or with element-independent (physical/energy) damage spells. Good examples for those would be fulminant prism, stone arrow->iron shot->crystal spear, and of course orbs.

Taking up Vehumet as your saviour is neat because the spell gifts are almost always going to help you branch out this way. Very early on, you are likely to get an offer of searing ray or stone arrow. Another thing to note is that you should be diligent when looking at effective damage casting: the worst thing you can do is cast a spell with a to-hit roll and fail to connect four times in a row. Spells like fireball, cloud spells, and prism operate on an area without rolling to hit.
There is also powerful synergy between vile clutch and aimed spells, because anything caught by the hands is treated as having a really low EV. If it is generated, learn the spell and just lock your problems in place. Obviously, examine any enemies you're not familiar with. The descriptions show just about everything you need to blast them: high AC counters rapid deconstruction shrapnel (but not being deconstructed), high EV counters bolts and aimed shots, resistances / immunities / vulnerabilities are also listed.
There is always something new to learn.

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Swamp Slogger

Posts: 182

Joined: Monday, 2nd July 2018, 16:47

Location: United States

Post Thursday, 2nd May 2019, 22:26

Re: Blaster caster questions

Do you butcher every corpse all the time, or only butcher when you're hungry? If you butcher every corpse all the time, this gives you the advantage of having the chunks in your inventory when you get hungry later.

Looking at your game notes, the real source of your food problems may be your skilling. You had level 5 in Dodging AND Fighting before level 5 in Conjurations, Fire, OR Spellcasting. You also had level 11 in Shields before level 10 in Conjurations. This emphasis on defense over offense means that your spell success rate and spell power were relatively low, forcing you to cast more times in order to kill things (which not only gives monsters more turns to fight you, but also causes problems with food and MP). You're right to put some skill into Dodging/Fighting/Shields, but I think you kind of overdid it and sacrificed too big a chunk of your experience at the time.

You are correct that this crossbow is an incredible weapon, and if you wanted to change your game plan (to training crossbows and support magic), it is certainly the kind of weapon that would allow you to do that.

It is realistic to do only conjurations, but only if you lure and pick your battles carefully (as any build should do, it's just extra important with a build like this) to avoid biting off more than you can chew and running out of MP. Killing enemies as quietly as possible helps with this, which you are probably good at, based on your preference for flame tongue and bolt of draining over mephitic cloud and fireball.

You can win either way. There is no right or wrong choice here - while a hypothetical optimal player might do better one way or the other, this difference is microscopic compared to the factor of how effective or interested you are in playing a particular style.

I'm not sure I understand your stealth question. All enemy activity is calculated after player activity, so if a step takes you out of LOS of a sleeping enemy, stealth isn't checked - it won't wake up. On the step that takes you into LOS of an enemy, stealth is checked, of course. No matter how much stealth you have, you cannot really count on not waking enemies up. However, I find 5-10 levels of stealth to be pretty worthwhile for another reason: when an enemy notices you, and you retreat and break LOS, it will walk to the spot where it last saw you. If, at that point, it still cannot see you, there is a chance based on your stealth (which is in turn based on your armour, stealth skill, and a few other factors) that it will lose track of you and start to wander, instead of chasing you. That seems to happen pretty often for me with 5-10 levels of stealth in light armour.

Regarding monster immunities, it is best to just accept that you cannot kill every monster (this is true even without immunities - some are just too powerful). However, for weak monsters with immunities, you can kill them with a weapon. Eventually you can learn Iron Shot or Orb of Destruction, which are powerful irresistible spells. Fire Storm also does a huge amount of irresistible damage, but is usually too expensive for a 3-rune game.

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Zot Zealot

Posts: 1004

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Friday, 3rd May 2019, 00:45

Re: Blaster caster questions

This advice might only be applicable if you start a new game.
some recent YAVP blaster casters: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=26146 viewtopic.php?f=12&t=26213
Notice how both of these picked a species which is more suited to blasting - Tengu and Deep Elves. If you want to learn to play a blastercaster, it seems wise to pick a character which is well suited to that playstyle. That way optimal play will be more similar to your game plan :)
Also, seconding stormdragon, these characters trained relatively little defences, although the tengu at one point had shields as his best skill. (For me shields is often the first skill to 15).
I agree with Sorcerous that EE and Conjurer seem easier to me than FE. With FE you have to learn to abuse conjure flame and/or sticky flame.
I usually don't have to eat rations very much, except in corpse-poor branches. I use the setting Autobutcher=True, maybe that helps? Also, there are some tactics to help with chunk management, but I don't know how important those are.
If you end your turn out-of-LOS, you can't be detected.
For another example of a blaster caster, see my recently-deceased mummy https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/pete ... 000046.txt Because he was a mummy he didn't train much defences until XL 8, but it was fine, though not having spell hunger was a significant part of that.

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Halls Hopper

Posts: 81

Joined: Monday, 18th March 2019, 22:11

Post Friday, 3rd May 2019, 01:34

Re: Blaster caster questions

I'd avoid Tengu and Deep Elves as they in practice are more difficult than a human due to their worse hp aptitude. My biggest piece of advice is to first skill for your key spell before training defenses. For a Fire Elementalist, the best spells are Sticky Flame and Conjure Flame. Conjure Flame is a little tricky to use but you can get some enemies to walk right into the flame clouds. With stickly flame, simply apply the spell and walk back and reapply when the spells runs out. Both of these spells should get your through lair with good play. Once you have defenses and both of these spells castable, you can work towards fireball which is a decent AOE spells. Be wary that while the spell itself is good, it makes quite a bit of noise so use it near the stairs or in cleared areas. Along the way vehumet will start granting spells, your main priorities as a fire elementalist would be bolt of fire and ignition, but will also needs ways to hurt fire immune enemies. The best spells long term for this will be irradiate, iron shot, and orb of destruction though other bolt spells can be serviceable. The level 9 spell fire storm, can also be castable with Vehumet for your 3rd rune, some of Depths and Zot if Vehument grants it to you.

This method of play is quite consistent with vehumet, though the other options you detailed are often done as well with non Sif/Vehument gods when the spells available in the game is low.

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Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 454

Joined: Thursday, 1st November 2018, 02:33

Post Friday, 3rd May 2019, 01:59

Re: Blaster caster questions

The +10 pain/+5 str trident and +10 elec hand crossbow really stand out in this dump, as well as the 11 points in shields. You could easily win this game without putting any further skill points into conjurations and that may be the best way to go. I would be working on getting more ac with this character and not be considering branching out for more types of elemental damage -- it is a major red flag when someone advises you to spend xp to get more elemental attack flavors.

Of the spells you have, animate skeleton and lightning spire stand out as worth learning and using soon. I would like to see more necromancy spells available before committing heavily to a pain melee/necromancy route, but the truth is pain melee is extremely good and can carry you a long way even without a lot of good spells to make use of the necromancy skill. As for your action chart, you should use conjure flame and sticky flame far more often. Not using fireball much or at all is a reasonable stylistic preference imo, though for a character like this that devotes a lot of early xp to developing physical skills (shields), it would be better not to spend the xp to get fireball online at all.

[edit] Ha, on a second look at this thread, it is surprisingly low on the sorts of things I assume people are going to be saying when I see the words "blaster caster" and a dump like this. Main thing I disagree with is the idea of committing to the crossbow instead of the trident.
This is where mechanical excellence and one-thousand four-hundred horsepower pays off.

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Friday, 3rd May 2019, 14:12

Re: Blaster caster questions

Blaster caster is close to glass canon, especially early game. I usually avoid training anything but magic schools and spellcasting until my main starting spell (level 4-5 depending on background) is online. Buckler is the heaviest shield until my level 9 spell is online. As is you trained a hybrid and tried playing like a blaster caster, no surprise it is very hard.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

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Tomb Titivator

Posts: 809

Joined: Wednesday, 19th June 2013, 09:31

Post Friday, 3rd May 2019, 22:53

Re: Blaster caster questions

I have been playing almost exclusively DEFE (Deep Elf Fire Elementalist) for a few years now, on and off.

My tips:

-HP is useful, but if you are getting hit much (if at all) you are doing it wrong. Kill everything from edge of LOS. Your survivability is your ability to kill everything in a few turns with a pure caster.
-Fireball is a good spell, but be careful using it for noise purposes. Always have a clear retreat path, never use it before exploring probably 20% of the level, and default to bolt of flame if you don't need AOE damage. If you do, try to lure enemie into a line and use bolt of flame anyway. Sticky flame is also a great spell against some monsters (Read: Not two headed ogres and other things that can potentially one shot you)
-Train nothing except conjurations and fire magic until you get sticky flame really castable. Keep doing that a little longer, then once you have fireball around 10%, switch on spellcasting to reduce your hunger costs a bit and increase MP if you need it, but you shouldn't - theres plenty of chunks all the way to the end of lair. Once you have fireball to around 4-5% failure rate (This should be around lair) switch off all magic training and get fighting and dodging to about 10. After this, train whatever magic skills you need for the spells you've found / been gifted.
-Sticky flame / Fireball / Bolt of fire are your bread and butter.
-Retreat early in fights. No MP = dead character. Be on stairs with a gap between you and the enemy before this happens.
-Edit your RC. Add "auto_butcher = full" to it. This will make you butcher every corpse you can and will help your hunger issues.

My current DEFE character, 10/15 runes so far. Just taking my first hell rune (hopefully!)

https://pastebin.com/H955J6Nk

Skill build:
  Code:
Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 |
---------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Conjurations   |     2  3     4  5  7  9             12 13 15    16 18          19 20 21       24 | 24.1
Fire Magic     |     4     5     6  7  9          10 12 14 15 16 17 18          19 20 21       24 | 24.0
Dodging        |                       3  6 10 12 14                                     17    27 | 27.0
Fighting       |                          3  6  8 10                                        12 24 | 24.5
Shields        |                          4                                                       |  4.4
Spellcasting   |                             4  5     6  7    12 14 16 17 19       22 23       27 | 27.0
Necromancy     |                                   4  5  6           7  9 12 16 17          19    | 19.0
Evocations     |                                               7       10                14 16 27 | 27.0
Earth Magic    |                                               4                          6 10 20 | 20.0
Summonings     |                                                  6                               |  6.5
Charms         |                                                       11 15 19 20                | 20.0
Staves         |                                                                               12 | 12.0
Translocations |                                                                               17 | 17.5
Armour         |                                                                               16 | 16.8
Stealth        |                                                                               13 | 13.0
Throwing       |                                                                               10 | 10.0
Maces & Flails |                                                                                6 |  6.0

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Temple Termagant

Posts: 11

Joined: Saturday, 13th April 2019, 16:33

Post Saturday, 4th May 2019, 17:01

Re: Blaster caster questions

My conclusions are:
    I have spend to much exp on defense this early, I should have spent more exp on spellcasting,fire magic and conjurations.

    Supplementing your primary magic school with physical/energy damage spells is optimal in order to handle all kinds of mobs.

    Some extra stealth is worthwhile as a caster.

    Use Sticky Flame more to decrease hunger costs.

    Use Conjure Flame more to decrease hunger costs.

Reading about spell hunger it seems reduction of it is directly proportional to Int so maybe it would have been better putting points into Int this early instead of Str for future dragon armours (fire or cold). Is fire/ice dragon to heavy an armour target for a blaster caster, more suitable to hybrids?

Also I butcher every corpse I find, In fact I butcher so much I think all butchering and being forced to eat awfully tasting corpses will be quite detrimental to the mental health of my character ;) What I don't do is wait until being starved before eating rations, maybe I should?

I passed up knowledge of searing ray because a level 2 damage spell did not really interest me but in hindsight maybe I shouldn't because then I might have been able to do volcano. I't seemed like it would very soon be turned into a waste of spell levels. Good or bad gamble?

Does Conjure Flame have any use in open spaces?

Thanks for all comments and tips!
User avatar

Slime Squisher

Posts: 405

Joined: Sunday, 27th January 2019, 13:50

Post Saturday, 4th May 2019, 18:27

Re: Blaster caster questions

at wrote:Reading about spell hunger it seems reduction of it is directly proportional to Int so maybe it would have been better putting points into Int this early instead of Str for future dragon armours (fire or cold). Is fire/ice dragon to heavy an armour target for a blaster caster, more suitable to hybrids?

Also I butcher every corpse I find, In fact I butcher so much I think all butchering and being forced to eat awfully tasting corpses will be quite detrimental to the mental health of my character ;) What I don't do is wait until being starved before eating rations, maybe I should?

I passed up knowledge of searing ray because a level 2 damage spell did not really interest me but in hindsight maybe I shouldn't because then I might have been able to do volcano. I't seemed like it would very soon be turned into a waste of spell levels. Good or bad gamble?

Does Conjure Flame have any use in open spaces?


In order:
1) Either approach is good, though I tend to get Int almost every time. Ozocubu's armour and Statue form can both substantially increase durability, as can (to a lesser degree) Ice form. Depends on what you consider a hybrid, honestly. Items with Int+ and Str+ can also shift your priorities, be mindful of those.

2) Food management is not much of a concern once you have decent skills. I rarely even use rations in early D and L, aside from hunger ghosts or really bad spawn placements.

3) Waste of spell levels is another subjective matter. Gambling tends to be worth it, but only if the spell in question is versatile enough to justify the bet. As posted above, spells with a partial or full physical / energy hit are more broadly useful than pure electricity or ice. This will be less of a question the more you play casters. Experience solves a lot of problems.

4) Conjure flame is a strange mix of outright damage and spatial denial. A common use for it is to make a wall just in front of your char, then use ranged hits and spells to kill off anything on the other side of it. Mindless enemies (zombies and slimes) will happily burn themselves to nothing, as will fearless ones (hydra and death yaks).
There is always something new to learn.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 81

Joined: Monday, 18th March 2019, 22:11

Post Saturday, 4th May 2019, 20:01

Re: Blaster caster questions

at wrote:My conclusions are:
    I have spend to much exp on defense this early, I should have spent more exp on spellcasting,fire magic and conjurations.

    Supplementing your primary magic school with physical/energy damage spells is optimal in order to handle all kinds of mobs.

    Some extra stealth is worthwhile as a caster.

    Use Sticky Flame more to decrease hunger costs.

    Use Conjure Flame more to decrease hunger costs.

Reading about spell hunger it seems reduction of it is directly proportional to Int so maybe it would have been better putting points into Int this early instead of Str for future dragon armours (fire or cold). Is fire/ice dragon to heavy an armour target for a blaster caster, more suitable to hybrids?

Also I butcher every corpse I find, In fact I butcher so much I think all butchering and being forced to eat awfully tasting corpses will be quite detrimental to the mental health of my character ;) What I don't do is wait until being starved before eating rations, maybe I should?

I passed up knowledge of searing ray because a level 2 damage spell did not really interest me but in hindsight maybe I shouldn't because then I might have been able to do volcano. I't seemed like it would very soon be turned into a waste of spell levels. Good or bad gamble?

Does Conjure Flame have any use in open spaces?

Thanks for all comments and tips!


1. Early on I'd prioritize int as it will get your more spell levels and improve the success rate of your spells. In the later game, it ultimately depends on how hybridy vs pure mage you are. For example, if you find a robe of the archmagi as a conjurer you will often want to continue pumping int, while if you find a well enchanted dragon armour you may pump strength instead. If in lighter option, you do have other options like statue form or ozo's armour (be wary of stat form as a pure caster. You are essentially slowed and don't do more damage with spells. It is still good in some context though).

2. Don't wait until your near starving. The main thing I would recommend is to push your food clock to its limits if you have to. Generally, food can be an issue through both lair runes, but past that you'll generally start gaining more food than you use. I've never actually starved in games either, though even if you do, you'll get a better idea of how far you can push the food issue until it becomes a problem for future games.

3. Searing ray alone probably isn't enough to clear a volcano. An early volcano for a FE can often not be clearable without good wands (and a few points of evocations) or if a more hybrid approach early on is taken. It's not a big deal bailing out of it anyway, I only find sewers, ossuaries and guantlets to strengthen the character by a significant amount.

4. Conjure flame can be used on some enemies like hydras in open spaces and they will walk in them. It mostly just involves trial and error to see which enemies will.

Blades Runner

Posts: 616

Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19

Post Sunday, 5th May 2019, 05:37

Re: Blaster caster questions

If you're going pure blaster caster, I agree with a lot of the tips from del who said he plays a lot of DeFe.

Don't hybridize in this case at all. Cram as much as you can into int and blow stuff up at the edge of LOS if possible, and keep retreating as needed to recharge mana. Fire is probably the strongest of the elements for starting out and in general. Where my advice varies a bit is that at some point when training fire to go all out aggressive, I like to add in a splash of earth magic, mainly for iron shot or crystal spear. The added earth magic picks up the slack when you run into fire resistant/immune critters. Secondly, instead of going for some str and armour, you'll be on the lookout for statue form as your panic button when your ranged attacks aren't going well or you know you're about to enter into a situation where taking damage is going to be harder to prevent. Not running out of mana is the biggest challenge overall. Staff of energy can help some if you find it. So does sublimation of blood if you have a good means to restore health quickly. If not doing extended, probably the best bet is Vehumet. If doing extended, then statue form + TSO is the way to go. It's quite doable, just tedious as heck as compared to a dumb brute with all str, an axe, and wearing gold dragon armour.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 182

Joined: Monday, 2nd July 2018, 16:47

Location: United States

Post Monday, 6th May 2019, 13:20

Re: Blaster caster questions

at wrote:Reading about spell hunger it seems reduction of it is directly proportional to Int so maybe it would have been better putting points into Int this early instead of Str for future dragon armours (fire or cold). Is fire/ice dragon to heavy an armour target for a blaster caster, more suitable to hybrids?

Raising STR while wearing robes and killing things with spells is a bad strategy, STR does nothing for you. The assumption of ending up in fire/ice dragon armour is false, you are more likely to end the game with a robe of archmagi or some good randart. You should raise INT (because it increases spell power and spell success, as well as reducing spell hunger) until you come across some equipment that changes your plan (which may or may not happen).

at wrote:Use Conjure Flame more to decrease hunger costs.

While it will probably decrease your hunger costs, the main reason to use conjure flame is because it's good. It's quiet and it does a ridiculous amount of damage. Every turn that an enemy spends in it is like half a fireball worth of damage (approximately). In general, if you're standing in a corridor and drop a conjure flame adjacent to you, either (A) the enemy won't go in it, so you effectively disable its melee attacks, or (B) the enemy does go in it, in which case your one cast of a level three spell is likely to do multiple fireballs worth of damage quietly. As for using it in open spaces, you can, but you generally have to cast it 3 times to make a wall of clouds. The fact that it kills things food-efficiently is going to seem like a fringe perk once you get the hang of using it to its full potential.

Sticky flame is not bad, it's quiet and it does pretty good damage, but it's a level higher spell and its damage is generally less than conjure flame. It's worth using to stack with conjure flame, and it works in some situations where conjure flame won't work. For example, if you open a door and a centaur is on the other side and immediately shoots at you, you want to step adjacent to it to stop it from using its bow, and conjure flame would stop you from doing that - but you can sticky flame it after getting adjacent. Or if you opened the door and an enemy on the other side immediately stepped adjacent to you, you have no chance to use conjure flame, but sticky flame still works.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6454

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Monday, 6th May 2019, 19:35

Re: Blaster caster questions

stormdragon wrote:Sticky flame is not bad, it's quiet and it does pretty good damage, but it's a level higher spell and its damage is generally less than conjure flame. It's worth using to stack with conjure flame, and it works in some situations where conjure flame won't work. For example, if you open a door and a centaur is on the other side and immediately shoots at you, you want to step adjacent to it to stop it from using its bow, and conjure flame would stop you from doing that - but you can sticky flame it after getting adjacent. Or if you opened the door and an enemy on the other side immediately stepped adjacent to you, you have no chance to use conjure flame, but sticky flame still works.

Also you can use sticky flame on something and walk away from it while it dies which doesn't work with conjure flame, if it's a thing that has a lot of hps and does non-trivial damage this may be a lot more survivable than conjure flame. But also stacking them together kills most things.
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