Advice for melee extended


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Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Monday, 17th September 2018, 20:43

Post Tuesday, 26th March 2019, 15:50

Advice for melee extended

Hi guys,

I have been playing crawl for over a year now. I am by no means an expert thoug, having won only 2 times, with an OP OpTm^Chei (15 runes) and a FoFi^Qazl (3 runes). My only experience of extended was over a year ago with that Octopode who was uber strong attack-wise, but also used lots of magic to easily survive all of extended. My Formicid, was also very strong (tabbed all the way to ZOT5) but a couple of sketchy situations in Abyss (lots of noise, no chance to rest) made me choose to get the orb and run.

This Time I made it till the end of Zot with a MiGl^Zin. I have found the new Singing sword on an early dungeon level and it literally obliterated everything (maybe a lil overpowered but still very much fun, so I wouldn't revert it back). I have just found the Zephyr bow and I have a triple sword of Holy Wrath for the extended.

char dump: https://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/g ... cchini.txt

I am not sure how to approach this as a pure melee char like this. Should i switch to TSO? should I try to make magic castable or is it doable with just my consumables?

All advice on melee extended is very welcome.

Blades Runner

Posts: 593

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Tuesday, 26th March 2019, 16:09

Re: Advice for melee extended

TSO vs Zin is up to you, both are fine for extended. If you can get rN+++ I'd probably keep Zin, but that's partly just because of how much I hate mutations.

It's worth training up some utility magic, as you're already near max on fighting/armor/dodging anyway. You can evoke blink, but passage of golubria is excellent in extended so I'd train some translocations anyway. I would also recommend confusing touch, swiftness, and pproj. I *strongly* recommend pproj. You're training longbows and have one of the best weapons in the game (Zephyr), having the ability to smite-shot annoying enemies that can torment or summon spam is very useful.

Of the above only passage is level 4, rest is 3 or less so even with minotaur aptitudes + low int these can be castable soon enough with extended experience, even in gold scales. You CAN get higher level magic going eventually, but most of that isn't very attractive compared to pproj zephyr-shotting anything that matters.

Zin/TSO both benefit from maxing invocations eventually in extended also.

Especially once you get passage of golubria going, your consumables should hold out as long as you're careful.

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Slime Squisher

Posts: 405

Joined: Sunday, 27th January 2019, 13:50

Post Tuesday, 26th March 2019, 16:18

Re: Advice for melee extended

grocchini wrote:Hi guys,

I have been playing crawl for over a year now. I am by no means an expert thoug, having won only 2 times, with an OP OpTm^Chei (15 runes) and a FoFi^Qazl (3 runes). My only experience of extended was over a year ago with that Octopode who was uber strong attack-wise, but also used lots of magic to easily survive all of extended. My Formicid, was also very strong (tabbed all the way to ZOT5) but a couple of sketchy situations in Abyss (lots of noise, no chance to rest) made me choose to get the orb and run.

This Time I made it till the end of Zot with a MiGl^Zin. I have found the new Singing sword on an early dungeon level and it literally obliterated everything (maybe a lil overpowered but still very much fun, so I wouldn't revert it back). I have just found the Zephyr bow and I have a triple sword of Holy Wrath for the extended.

char dump: https://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/g ... cchini.txt

I am not sure how to approach this as a pure melee char like this. Should i switch to TSO? should I try to make magic castable or is it doable with just my consumables?

All advice on melee extended is very welcome.


The singing sword is your endgame weapon, nothing can resist the sound bursts and it will damage everything in LOS. Extended can be done with both Zin and TSO, so choosing one over the other is a question of your playstyle and convenience. Case in point: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26193

I have done extended with Zin and between the active abilities and passive mutation immunity there is not much that can stop you from running roughshod over Pandemonium and even Tomb. With the code you provided, I would say you don't need spells because evokables and wands can really make a lot of fights easy. In terms of skills, get max invocations: recite can obliterate even greater mummies and Panlords, vitalise grants +9 on all stats, and sanctuary is a powerful escape/panic button.

Surviving as a melee char will involve some use of consumables for survival, so make sure you never forget which ones you have at any time: the worst thing you can do in extended is forget you can neutralise a problem and then feel stupid in hindsight. Haste and cancellation potions are among the most useful, and scrolls of blink and especially fog can make a world of difference when used well.
There is always something new to learn.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 368

Joined: Thursday, 11th April 2013, 21:07

Post Tuesday, 26th March 2019, 16:31

Re: Advice for melee extended

grocchini wrote:I am not sure how to approach this as a pure melee char like this. Should i switch to TSO? should I try to make magic castable or is it doable with just my consumables?

TSO vs Zin for melee extended is kind of "6 of one, half dozen of the other". They're both good, if I were playing that character I probably wouldn't switch. Remember that you have Sanctuary and Imprison available.

Re: How to approach extended as pure melee: Just remember that you will sometimes have to deal with Torment and Hellfire(/Damnation). Be ready to use LOS-blocking terrain/items/abilities when appropriate, as long as you don't stand in the open eating damage you will be fine. Digging can be helpful here, as can fog, haste, ?blink.

Re: That character specifically: Rather than trying to get magic reliably castable with GDA and 9 int, you might instead find it faster to train your bow skill up a bit more and use "Zephyr". You could, of course, just continue to play through with Long Blades -- but choosing to stick to pure melee will mean that your best answer for dealing with threats at range is often to break LOS and wait a few turns. With a good longbow, you can mostly just tab things down, even in extended.

What you choose to do here is entirely preference: You're playing a Mi that's done with Zot, your character is strong enough to blast through everything the game has to offer.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 36

Joined: Saturday, 10th December 2016, 15:38

Post Tuesday, 26th March 2019, 16:44

Re: Advice for melee extended

grocchini wrote:I am not sure how to approach this as a pure melee char like this.

You don't approach it as a pure melee char.

Having a ranged option is super useful. I usually go for throwing, or if I find a good sling, I go for slings. Without ranged attacks, in the best case scenario you're just wasting turns when closing up to the enemies. Ranged is also important for taking out priority targets (torment sources, summoners...). I choose throwing and slings because they're compatible with the sword+shield style.
Second, evocations, as high as you can go. For one skill you get what casters get by training 3-4-5 different skills. Lamp of fire is super powerful. Lightning rod is quite decent for reaching priority targets in the back row or doing moderate damage to a group. Wand of clouds is an "I win" button in many tough situations. Wand of acid is awesome. I've had situations where I took down pan lords with a wand of acid exclusively.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1739

Joined: Tuesday, 13th March 2012, 02:48

Post Tuesday, 26th March 2019, 16:56

Re: Advice for melee extended

If you're going to use a shield, use a large shield.

TSO is quite straightforward in extended. Passive heal on kills is amazing.

Axes are generally the best weapon type in extended, but I haven't played current Singing Sword, so I can't say how the AOE compares to axes.

Blades Runner

Posts: 593

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Tuesday, 26th March 2019, 17:26

Re: Advice for melee extended

You don't approach it as a pure melee char.


Despite what he said, he isn't. He is carrying Zephyr, has 15.6 skill in bows already, and has it focused in training. That doesn't sound like "pure melee" to me :p.

I have done some of extended as a stabber with support magic. It's doable (and you quickly learn that some tier 1 demons/lords can be confusing touched and others aren't even worth attempting that). Rapier of holy wrath will handle the popcorn and massacres on even a tier 3 stab, but this is a pretty taxing way to play extended overall.
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Barkeep

Posts: 4435

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Wednesday, 27th March 2019, 13:20

Re: Advice for melee extended

If you have zephyr, you should definitely not be a pure melee character. It's one of the very best weapons in the game. Also you have portal projectile which makes it even more great; basically you have an LCS-class attack, except smite-targeted and at full LOS range.

Dunno about new singing sword but you have a +9 holy triple sword and 25 skill in long blades and that's gonna be a pretty good melee weapon in extended.

Even with crazy damage output, it's very possible, even easy, to die in extended. I'd probably take Zin; it's easy to get in over your head (especially without an LOS nuke) and sanctuary is essentially "on the other hand, what if I didn't die" as long as you remember to, y'know, use it. Recite is basically free and affects all manner of extended monsters.

Don't get me wrong; TSO is also very strong. But there ain't nothing like sanctuary when things go wrong.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

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Swamp Slogger

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Joined: Monday, 2nd July 2018, 16:47

Location: United States

Post Wednesday, 27th March 2019, 15:37

Re: Advice for melee extended

Other spells to mention: Lesser Beckoning and Spectral Weapon are very strong in conjunction with a powerful melee weapon. Song of Slaying could be useful in some situations.

Blades Runner

Posts: 593

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Wednesday, 27th March 2019, 17:53

Re: Advice for melee extended

^ pproj + Zephyr isn't just a "LoS nuke", it's a *smite targeted* nuke and training for it will also get him closer to passage. Holy triple sword will do more damage to demons/undead in melee but you don't always have time to casually walk up to something that can torment/hurl damnation, nor is it always a safe call to simply walk away from them.

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Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Monday, 17th September 2018, 20:43

Post Sunday, 31st March 2019, 23:32

Re: Advice for melee extended

Thank you all for your great suggestions.

The character was truly a force to reckon with mostly chopped things up with triple sword in Hell and shoot at things with Zephyr. Happily cleared Gehenna without too much hassle until...

Unitl I went to tartarus (had the right resist and thought it would be a cake). It was a piece of caek for the most part. but then I forgot about Silence (being a melee dude I forgot it could affect god abilities). Silence from Eresh-whatever-her-name-is effectively took off all my escape options (mostly sanctuary from Zin) and she managed to kill me.

I feel bad that it will have to pass a lot of time before a char set up like that is going to find both the singing sword AND zephyr in the same run...

Blades Runner

Posts: 616

Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19

Post Monday, 1st April 2019, 04:36

Re: Advice for melee extended

:cry:
grocchini wrote:Thank you all for your great suggestions.

The character was truly a force to reckon with mostly chopped things up with triple sword in Hell and shoot at things with Zephyr. Happily cleared Gehenna without too much hassle until...

Unitl I went to tartarus (had the right resist and thought it would be a cake). It was a piece of caek for the most part. but then I forgot about Silence (being a melee dude I forgot it could affect god abilities). Silence from Eresh-whatever-her-name-is effectively took off all my escape options (mostly sanctuary from Zin) and she managed to kill me.

I feel bad that it will have to pass a lot of time before a char set up like that is going to find both the singing sword AND zephyr in the same run...


Bummer! So for that fight, it's helpful to get your evocations up just a bit and drag along several items such as bags of spiders, boxes of beasts. Both of those evocables can create a mess of allies even during silence, and in heavy armour with no casting ability, to help you try to escape if needed and/or hamper and kill the boss. One more tip is to quaff brilliance and cast aura of abjuration (with just a wee bit of training in summoning) just before the fight and landing into silence.

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