How can I deal with this hydra?


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Dungeon Dilettante

Posts: 2

Joined: Sunday, 16th December 2018, 06:34

Post Sunday, 16th December 2018, 07:04

How can I deal with this hydra?

I've been enjoying my first game of DCSS (playing as a minotaur fighter), and with the help of Ultraviolent4's guide I've just entered the Lair. The Lair entrance was located on D:11, and I've cleared D:1 to D:11.

Shortly after entering the lair, I've spotted an eight headed hydra. I've been using long blades (along with some thrown weapons) for all my combat so far, and these sound like a poor choice based on the ability of the hydra to grow new heads. I do not have any flaming weapons, which seem to be a commonly recommended approach.

I could throw my javelins / tomahawks, but as I've found that this typically only weaken enemies (and as the hydra is poison resistant), this sounds unlikely to be effective to me. I also have a bunch of scrolls and wands, however I have not really used any of these in my run so far, and so I have very little intuition as to whether they would kill the hydra, or even be safe to use at this point.

Alternatively, I could run back to the stairs and try to clear D:12 and hope to find a flaming weapon. This potentially sounds like the safest choice, assuming that D:12 is not much harder than D:10 or D:11. However, if I don't find a flaming weapon I'm then in a similar scenario as before.

Any insight on general strategy in this case (or cases like it), as well as some intuition as to whether any of my wands or scrolls might be appropriate to this case would be greatly appreciated. (I've included the character file below). Thanks!

Spoiler: show
  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.22.1-2-g9c5b331 (webtiles) character file.

millsmess the Carver (Minotaur Fighter)            Turns: 16797, Time: 06:31:54

Health: 101/101    AC: 20    Str: 23    XL:     11   Next: 40%
Magic:  10/10      EV:  7    Int:  5    God:    Trog [***...]
Gold:   927        SH: 12    Dex: 15    Spells: 10/10 levels left

rFire    . . .     SeeInvis .   o - +0 scimitar
rCold    . . .     Gourm    .   c - +1 shield
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   R - +0 plate armour
rPois    .         Spirit   .   N - +1 hat
rElec    .         Reflect  .   P - +1 cloak
rCorr    .         Harm     .   s - +1 pair of gloves
MR       +....                  (no boots)
Stlth    ..........             (no amulet)
HPRegen  0.26/turn              m - +4 ring of dexterity
MPRegen  0.12/turn              G - ring of protection from magic

@: no status effects
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2
a: Berserk, Trog's Hand, Renounce Religion


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Trog.
Trog is most pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 13 of its levels.

You have collected 927 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +2 long sword
 o - a +0 scimitar (weapon)
 q - an uncursed dagger
 K - a great sword of freezing
Missiles
 n - 29 sling bullets
 B - 325 stones
 E - 92 bolts
 F - 80 poisoned needles
 U - 3 poisoned javelins (quivered)
 X - 12 tomahawks
Armour
 b - a +1 scale mail
 c - a +1 shield (worn)
 s - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
 N - a +1 hat (worn)
 P - a +1 cloak (worn)
 R - a +0 plate armour (worn)
Jewellery
 e - an uncursed ring of fire
 j - an uncursed ring of flight
 m - a +4 ring of dexterity (left hand)
 A - an uncursed ring of ice
 G - a ring of protection from magic (right hand)
Wands
 h - a wand of acid (10)
 p - a wand of disintegration (8)
 x - a wand of paralysis (20)
 y - a wand of polymorph (7)
 L - a wand of iceblast (17)
 O - a wand of scattershot (7)
 S - a wand of flame (24)
Scrolls
 g - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 r - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 v - 2 scrolls of fear
 w - 5 scrolls of fog
 D - a scroll of blinking
 T - 4 scrolls of immolation
Potions
 d - a potion of might
 k - 2 potions of cancellation
 l - a bubbling silvery potion
 t - 2 potions of mutation
 u - 2 potions of flight
 z - a murky cyan potion
 C - 2 potions of heal wounds
 H - 3 potions of agility
 I - 2 metallic cyan potions
 J - a fuming amethyst potion
Comestibles
 f - 13 rations
 i - a chunk of flesh


   Skills:
 + Level 10.4 Fighting
 + Level 12.4 Long Blades
 + Level 7.4 Throwing
 + Level 9.2 Armour
 + Level 2.3 Dodging
 + Level 1.7 Stealth
 + Level 7.7 Shields
 + Level 1.0 Evocations


You have 10 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.
Your spell library is empty.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (11/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6            Lair (1/6) D:11
   Orc: D:9-12     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Annotations:
D:6 3 runed doors, grinrain's ghost, novice HuAM
D:7 1 runed door, 4 exclusions, adso's ghost, novice MiFi
D:9 4 exclusions


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.


Message History

The porcupine is almost dead.
You block the porcupine's attack.
You miss the porcupine. Your headbutt misses the porcupine.
The porcupine is almost dead.
You block the porcupine's attack.
You hit the porcupine. You headbutt the porcupine.
You kill the porcupine!
Trog accepts your kill.
Found 17 gold pieces.
You see here a porcupine corpse.
You butcher the porcupine corpse.
i - a chunk of flesh
You start resting.
HP restored.
An eight-headed hydra comes into view.
The eight-headed hydra roars!
Press: ? - help, v - describe, . - travel
Here: an eight-headed hydra
The floor.
Unknown command.

 #.#......     .#
 #.......     ..#
 #......     ...#
##.##..+##+#....#
#................
##.......<.......
#................
 #...............
 #?@###+.P##.....
 #...............
 #..#..........##
 #..#......#.....
 #..P......#...#.
 .......$..# ..
 #..#  ..D.#
 #..#  .#.#


You can see an eight-headed hydra.

Vanquished Creatures
  2 two-headed ogres (D:10)
  Pikel (D:8)
  Maurice (D:10)
  A gargoyle (D:10)
  A komodo dragon (D:11)
  2 trolls
  Grinder (D:5)
  A hornet (D:9)
  3 hippogriffs
  A wyvern (D:9)
  A steam dragon (D:9)
  3 water moccasins
  A porcupine (Lair:1)
  7 orc warriors
  2 slaves
  An eye of draining (D:11)
  3 ice beasts
  2 sky beasts
  A black bear (D:9)
  A necrophage (D:10)
  4 ogres
  2 centaurs (D:9)
  A crocodile (D:9)
  A big kobold (D:7)
  9 bullfrogs
  A gnoll sergeant (D:7)
  A wyvern zombie (D:7)
  A water moccasin zombie (D:7)
  4 scorpions
  7 killer bees
  A howler monkey (D:6)
  5 wights (D:10)
  A bullfrog zombie (D:10)
  2 centaur zombies
  3 crimson imps
  7 orc priests
  7 hounds
  3 centaur skeletons
  2 jellies
  2 bullfrog skeletons
  5 iguanas
  7 worker ants
  12 orc wizards
  A worker ant zombie (D:10)
  A howler monkey skeleton (D:8)
  A howler monkey zombie (D:6)
  13 gnolls
  7 adders
  4 shadow imps
  2 oozes
  4 adder skeletons
  A worm (D:2)
  2 dart slugs
  2 leopard geckos
  39 orcs
  A ball python (D:4)
  6 giant cockroaches
  9 hobgoblins
  11 jackals
  6 quokkas
  5 bats
  4 frilled lizards
  16 goblins
  2 jackal zombies
  9 kobolds
  A leopard gecko skeleton (D:8)
  A quokka skeleton (D:6)
  A quokka zombie (D:6)
  5 rats
278 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An adder (D:9)
  A fungus (Lair:1)
  6 plants (D:11)
  2 withered plants (D:7)
10 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 288 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | millsmess the Minotaur Fighter began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 19/19 MP: 0/0
   317 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 23/27 MP: 1/1
   946 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 33/33 MP: 2/2
  1101 | D:2      | Reached skill level 3 in Long Blades
  2404 | D:3      | Noticed an ogre
  2447 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 40/40 MP: 3/3
  2822 | D:1      | HP: 1/40 [gnoll/spear (7)]
  3262 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  3546 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  3567 | D:4      | Reached skill level 4 in Long Blades
  3747 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 42/47 MP: 4/4
  4371 | D:4      | Killed an ogre
  4371 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  4371 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Long Blades
  4371 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 56/56 MP: 5/5
  4459 | D:4      | Got a faintly humming ring mail
  4503 | D:4      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  4751 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4791 | D:5      | Noticed Grinder
  5325 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Long Blades
  5406 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 63/63 MP: 6/6
  6200 | D:6      | Reached skill level 7 in Long Blades
  6427 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  6434 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  6665 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Trog the Wrathful
  6844 | D:6      | Found a runed gate.
  6845 | D:6      | Found a runed gate.
  6845 | D:6      | Found a runed gate.
  6846 | D:6      | Noticed grinrain's ghost (novice HuAM)
  6846 | D:6      | Noticed a troll
  7080 | D:7      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 36/74 MP: 7/7
  7257 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Long Blades
  7481 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  7481 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Dodging
  7785 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  7785 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
  7883 | D:7      | Found a runed door.
  7884 | D:7      | Noticed adso's ghost (novice MiFi)
  7953 | D:7      | Noticed a hippogriff
  7963 | D:7      | Killed a hippogriff
  7963 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Long Blades
  8438 | D:7      | Reached * piety under Trog
  8536 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 82/82 MP: 8/8
  8627 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
  8990 | D:5      | Killed Grinder
  8990 | D:5      | Reached skill level 10 in Long Blades
 10225 | D:8      | Reached ** piety under Trog
 10777 | D:8      | Reached skill level 11 in Long Blades
 11155 | D:9      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 86/91 MP: 9/9
 11632 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
 11884 | D:9      | Noticed Pikel
 11917 | D:9      | Paralysed by a hornet for 3 turns
 11924 | D:9      | Paralysed by a hornet for 1 turns
 12172 | D:8      | Killed Pikel
 13423 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 13683 | D:10     | Noticed a gargoyle
 13691 | D:10     | Killed a gargoyle
 13973 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 14103 | D:10     | Reached *** piety under Trog
 14474 | D:10     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 14498 | D:10     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 14498 | D:10     | Reached skill level 12 in Long Blades
 14498 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 100/100 MP: 10/10
 14745 | D:10     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 14890 | D:10     | Noticed Maurice
 15092 | D:10     | Killed Maurice
 15361 | D:10     | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 15475 | D:10     | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
 15905 | D:10     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 16416 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 16756 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 16796 | Lair:1   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 |
---------------+----------------------------------+-----
Armour         |  4                    5  7  8  9 |  9.2
Fighting       |     4        5  6  8     9 10    | 10.4
Shields        |     4                 5  6  7    |  7.7
Long Blades    |        3  4  5  6  7  9 11 12    | 12.4
Dodging        |                       1     2    |  2.3
Throwing       |                       1  4  6  7 |  7.4
Stealth        |                          1       |  1.7
Evocations     |                                1 |  1.0

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Long sword        |   108 |   100 |     5 |       ||   213
       Headbutt          |    15 |    15 |    70 |    48 ||   148
       Scimitar          |       |       |   313 |   201 ||   514
Throw: Stone             |    12 |     8 |       |    44 ||    64
       Javelin           |       |     3 |    88 |    90 ||   181
       Throwing net      |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
       Tomahawk          |       |       |       |    14 ||    14
Invok: Berserk           |       |       |     4 |     4 ||     8
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     3 |     4 ||     7
  Use: Scroll            |       |    12 |     3 |     8 ||    23
       Potion            |       |       |     4 |     1 ||     5
  Eat: Chunk             |     3 |     4 |     7 |     6 ||    20
       Ration            |     1 |     1 |     5 |     4 ||    11
Armor: Scale mail        |    42 |    42 |     2 |       ||    86
       Chain mail        |       |       |   145 |    40 ||   185
       Plate armour      |       |       |       |    29 ||    29
Dodge: Dodged            |    30 |    33 |    63 |    45 ||   171
Block: Shield            |    44 |    65 |   134 |   112 ||   355
Rpst.: Long sword        |     5 |     7 |     1 |       ||    13
       Scimitar          |       |       |    18 |     9 ||    27

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8782

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Sunday, 16th December 2018, 07:31

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

You don't need to kill every monster as soon as you find it. Hydras are not faster than you, you can just walk away from them. It's no reason to postpone Lair.

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 2
nago, Rast

Dungeon Dilettante

Posts: 2

Joined: Sunday, 16th December 2018, 06:34

Post Sunday, 16th December 2018, 17:31

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

Interesting. I've run away from monsters before, but always by switching dungeon levels.

I guess I hadn't considered this option properly, as the idea of exploring the Lair with a monster I don't want to fight at my back (and potentially between me and the only flight of stairs) sounds really scary. However, I guess this is not as bad as it necessarily sounds, as I have some items that can help me escape in that context. Also, I guess I can always use a pillar to manipulate the hydra so that I can return to the stairs afterwards.

EDIT: I tried exploring the floor without fighting the hydra, but after a few mistakes it caught up to me. (Maybe I should have used a scroll to blink away instead of just running?) Anyways, it turns out I was able to kill it with javelins and tomahawks pretty easily. I think I was underestimating how armored my character is (?), as the hydra had trouble doing a lot of damage quickly.
User avatar

Zot Zealot

Posts: 982

Joined: Monday, 29th September 2014, 09:04

Post Sunday, 16th December 2018, 22:29

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

You don't want the hydra constantly following you, you need to get away from it and then just keep autoexploring while avoiding the area where you last saw the hydra. If it finds you again, you just repeat your steps. On a non-branch-entry level this is easy because you just go up one staircase and down another, but it can be tricky on Lair:1.

For this message the author chequers has received thanks: 2
duvessa, nago
User avatar

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 454

Joined: Thursday, 1st November 2018, 02:33

Post Sunday, 16th December 2018, 23:58

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

A melee character with more than 20 AC and reasonable EV or SH can kill hydras with floor junk. Short blades are a good, often overlooked option. They don't chop heads and they're common enough that you usually have a branded one lying around.
This is where mechanical excellence and one-thousand four-hundred horsepower pays off.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4426

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Monday, 17th December 2018, 05:38

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

Another approach is to avoid using long blades, as Mi you could use maces & flails which are more common and deal more damage. I normally use long blades only with stabbers.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Blades Runner

Posts: 584

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Monday, 17th December 2018, 19:42

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

tealizard wrote:A melee character with more than 20 AC and reasonable EV or SH can kill hydras with floor junk. Short blades are a good, often overlooked option. They don't chop heads and they're common enough that you usually have a branded one lying around.


20AC melee can take them up stairs and park them somewhere too, letting you deal with them later/in less complicated fashion.

For skill-less short blades elec is good for damage, cold for slow, and draining is great because it screws the hit dice on the hydra, gimping its ability to do anything back. Lets you swing the fight in your favor heavily if you get good initial first hits, otherwise reset the fight.

That said, with 10+ throwing javelins or even tomahawks should have no trouble killing hydras outright, it's not like player has to stop throwing them in melee. Control encounter so these can be thrown/do damage as hydra approaches.

Dungeon Dilettante

Posts: 1

Joined: Tuesday, 18th December 2018, 15:57

Post Tuesday, 18th December 2018, 15:58

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

Can the hydras by kited in a way and dealt with that way? I've not managed to do it, but I hope someone has.

Blades Runner

Posts: 584

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Tuesday, 18th December 2018, 17:01

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

Lederman wrote:Can the hydras by kited in a way and dealt with that way? I've not managed to do it, but I hope someone has.


They regen fast and have normal move speed. Since they have rpois most normal means of kiting won't work well. I guess you could chop a head using a fire weapon, then back off until full health and do it again until it has no heads.

Fast characters like centaurs/spriggans/felids can kite them with ranged attacks, assuming decent damage. Any non-naga can put down a lightning spire that isn't in direct path then run while the hydra gets blasted. Sticking them with cold attacks or the slow spell should work too, assuming you have enough damage.

Usually due to the regen kiting them is annoying/impractical. Usually best to just have a means to attack them from LoS and kill/mostly kill before they get to melee, be strong enough in melee to actually win, or maybe hex them. They have MR but not so much that you can't apply hexes with good investment.

If you have enough defensive investment to pull them upstairs you can pillar dance forever to reset the fight every time it goes kind of badly until you win. It's annoying but consistent, having a regen item is a big QoL booster to such an approach.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 138

Joined: Friday, 13th March 2015, 13:33

Post Wednesday, 19th December 2018, 01:17

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

or get 5 evo and one shot it with scattershot or couple acid shots

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Rast

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 34

Joined: Saturday, 10th December 2016, 15:38

Post Wednesday, 19th December 2018, 16:53

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

millsmess wrote:I've been enjoying my first game of DCSS (playing as a minotaur fighter), and with the help of Ultraviolent4's guide I've just entered the Lair. The Lair entrance was located on D:11, and I've cleared D:1 to D:11.

Shortly after entering the lair, I've spotted an eight headed hydra. I've been using long blades (along with some thrown weapons) for all my combat so far, and these sound like a poor choice based on the ability of the hydra to grow new heads. I do not have any flaming weapons, which seem to be a commonly recommended approach.

I could throw my javelins / tomahawks, but as I've found that this typically only weaken enemies (and as the hydra is poison resistant), this sounds unlikely to be effective to me. I also have a bunch of scrolls and wands, however I have not really used any of these in my run so far, and so I have very little intuition as to whether they would kill the hydra, or even be safe to use at this point.

Alternatively, I could run back to the stairs and try to clear D:12 and hope to find a flaming weapon. This potentially sounds like the safest choice, assuming that D:12 is not much harder than D:10 or D:11. However, if I don't find a flaming weapon I'm then in a similar scenario as before.

Any insight on general strategy in this case (or cases like it), as well as some intuition as to whether any of my wands or scrolls might be appropriate to this case would be greatly appreciated. (I've included the character file below). Thanks!

Spoiler: show
  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.22.1-2-g9c5b331 (webtiles) character file.

millsmess the Carver (Minotaur Fighter)            Turns: 16797, Time: 06:31:54

Health: 101/101    AC: 20    Str: 23    XL:     11   Next: 40%
Magic:  10/10      EV:  7    Int:  5    God:    Trog [***...]
Gold:   927        SH: 12    Dex: 15    Spells: 10/10 levels left

rFire    . . .     SeeInvis .   o - +0 scimitar
rCold    . . .     Gourm    .   c - +1 shield
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   R - +0 plate armour
rPois    .         Spirit   .   N - +1 hat
rElec    .         Reflect  .   P - +1 cloak
rCorr    .         Harm     .   s - +1 pair of gloves
MR       +....                  (no boots)
Stlth    ..........             (no amulet)
HPRegen  0.26/turn              m - +4 ring of dexterity
MPRegen  0.12/turn              G - ring of protection from magic

@: no status effects
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2
a: Berserk, Trog's Hand, Renounce Religion


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Trog.
Trog is most pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 13 of its levels.

You have collected 927 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +2 long sword
 o - a +0 scimitar (weapon)
 q - an uncursed dagger
 K - a great sword of freezing
Missiles
 n - 29 sling bullets
 B - 325 stones
 E - 92 bolts
 F - 80 poisoned needles
 U - 3 poisoned javelins (quivered)
 X - 12 tomahawks
Armour
 b - a +1 scale mail
 c - a +1 shield (worn)
 s - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
 N - a +1 hat (worn)
 P - a +1 cloak (worn)
 R - a +0 plate armour (worn)
Jewellery
 e - an uncursed ring of fire
 j - an uncursed ring of flight
 m - a +4 ring of dexterity (left hand)
 A - an uncursed ring of ice
 G - a ring of protection from magic (right hand)
Wands
 h - a wand of acid (10)
 p - a wand of disintegration (8)
 x - a wand of paralysis (20)
 y - a wand of polymorph (7)
 L - a wand of iceblast (17)
 O - a wand of scattershot (7)
 S - a wand of flame (24)
Scrolls
 g - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 r - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 v - 2 scrolls of fear
 w - 5 scrolls of fog
 D - a scroll of blinking
 T - 4 scrolls of immolation
Potions
 d - a potion of might
 k - 2 potions of cancellation
 l - a bubbling silvery potion
 t - 2 potions of mutation
 u - 2 potions of flight
 z - a murky cyan potion
 C - 2 potions of heal wounds
 H - 3 potions of agility
 I - 2 metallic cyan potions
 J - a fuming amethyst potion
Comestibles
 f - 13 rations
 i - a chunk of flesh


   Skills:
 + Level 10.4 Fighting
 + Level 12.4 Long Blades
 + Level 7.4 Throwing
 + Level 9.2 Armour
 + Level 2.3 Dodging
 + Level 1.7 Stealth
 + Level 7.7 Shields
 + Level 1.0 Evocations


You have 10 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.
Your spell library is empty.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (11/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6            Lair (1/6) D:11
   Orc: D:9-12     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Annotations:
D:6 3 runed doors, grinrain's ghost, novice HuAM
D:7 1 runed door, 4 exclusions, adso's ghost, novice MiFi
D:9 4 exclusions


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.


Message History

The porcupine is almost dead.
You block the porcupine's attack.
You miss the porcupine. Your headbutt misses the porcupine.
The porcupine is almost dead.
You block the porcupine's attack.
You hit the porcupine. You headbutt the porcupine.
You kill the porcupine!
Trog accepts your kill.
Found 17 gold pieces.
You see here a porcupine corpse.
You butcher the porcupine corpse.
i - a chunk of flesh
You start resting.
HP restored.
An eight-headed hydra comes into view.
The eight-headed hydra roars!
Press: ? - help, v - describe, . - travel
Here: an eight-headed hydra
The floor.
Unknown command.

 #.#......     .#
 #.......     ..#
 #......     ...#
##.##..+##+#....#
#................
##.......<.......
#................
 #...............
 #?@###+.P##.....
 #...............
 #..#..........##
 #..#......#.....
 #..P......#...#.
 .......$..# ..
 #..#  ..D.#
 #..#  .#.#


You can see an eight-headed hydra.

Vanquished Creatures
  2 two-headed ogres (D:10)
  Pikel (D:8)
  Maurice (D:10)
  A gargoyle (D:10)
  A komodo dragon (D:11)
  2 trolls
  Grinder (D:5)
  A hornet (D:9)
  3 hippogriffs
  A wyvern (D:9)
  A steam dragon (D:9)
  3 water moccasins
  A porcupine (Lair:1)
  7 orc warriors
  2 slaves
  An eye of draining (D:11)
  3 ice beasts
  2 sky beasts
  A black bear (D:9)
  A necrophage (D:10)
  4 ogres
  2 centaurs (D:9)
  A crocodile (D:9)
  A big kobold (D:7)
  9 bullfrogs
  A gnoll sergeant (D:7)
  A wyvern zombie (D:7)
  A water moccasin zombie (D:7)
  4 scorpions
  7 killer bees
  A howler monkey (D:6)
  5 wights (D:10)
  A bullfrog zombie (D:10)
  2 centaur zombies
  3 crimson imps
  7 orc priests
  7 hounds
  3 centaur skeletons
  2 jellies
  2 bullfrog skeletons
  5 iguanas
  7 worker ants
  12 orc wizards
  A worker ant zombie (D:10)
  A howler monkey skeleton (D:8)
  A howler monkey zombie (D:6)
  13 gnolls
  7 adders
  4 shadow imps
  2 oozes
  4 adder skeletons
  A worm (D:2)
  2 dart slugs
  2 leopard geckos
  39 orcs
  A ball python (D:4)
  6 giant cockroaches
  9 hobgoblins
  11 jackals
  6 quokkas
  5 bats
  4 frilled lizards
  16 goblins
  2 jackal zombies
  9 kobolds
  A leopard gecko skeleton (D:8)
  A quokka skeleton (D:6)
  A quokka zombie (D:6)
  5 rats
278 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An adder (D:9)
  A fungus (Lair:1)
  6 plants (D:11)
  2 withered plants (D:7)
10 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 288 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | millsmess the Minotaur Fighter began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 19/19 MP: 0/0
   317 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 23/27 MP: 1/1
   946 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 33/33 MP: 2/2
  1101 | D:2      | Reached skill level 3 in Long Blades
  2404 | D:3      | Noticed an ogre
  2447 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 40/40 MP: 3/3
  2822 | D:1      | HP: 1/40 [gnoll/spear (7)]
  3262 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  3546 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  3567 | D:4      | Reached skill level 4 in Long Blades
  3747 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 42/47 MP: 4/4
  4371 | D:4      | Killed an ogre
  4371 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  4371 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Long Blades
  4371 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 56/56 MP: 5/5
  4459 | D:4      | Got a faintly humming ring mail
  4503 | D:4      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  4751 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4791 | D:5      | Noticed Grinder
  5325 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Long Blades
  5406 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 63/63 MP: 6/6
  6200 | D:6      | Reached skill level 7 in Long Blades
  6427 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  6434 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  6665 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Trog the Wrathful
  6844 | D:6      | Found a runed gate.
  6845 | D:6      | Found a runed gate.
  6845 | D:6      | Found a runed gate.
  6846 | D:6      | Noticed grinrain's ghost (novice HuAM)
  6846 | D:6      | Noticed a troll
  7080 | D:7      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 36/74 MP: 7/7
  7257 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Long Blades
  7481 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  7481 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Dodging
  7785 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  7785 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
  7883 | D:7      | Found a runed door.
  7884 | D:7      | Noticed adso's ghost (novice MiFi)
  7953 | D:7      | Noticed a hippogriff
  7963 | D:7      | Killed a hippogriff
  7963 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Long Blades
  8438 | D:7      | Reached * piety under Trog
  8536 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 82/82 MP: 8/8
  8627 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
  8990 | D:5      | Killed Grinder
  8990 | D:5      | Reached skill level 10 in Long Blades
 10225 | D:8      | Reached ** piety under Trog
 10777 | D:8      | Reached skill level 11 in Long Blades
 11155 | D:9      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 86/91 MP: 9/9
 11632 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
 11884 | D:9      | Noticed Pikel
 11917 | D:9      | Paralysed by a hornet for 3 turns
 11924 | D:9      | Paralysed by a hornet for 1 turns
 12172 | D:8      | Killed Pikel
 13423 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 13683 | D:10     | Noticed a gargoyle
 13691 | D:10     | Killed a gargoyle
 13973 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 14103 | D:10     | Reached *** piety under Trog
 14474 | D:10     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 14498 | D:10     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 14498 | D:10     | Reached skill level 12 in Long Blades
 14498 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 100/100 MP: 10/10
 14745 | D:10     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 14890 | D:10     | Noticed Maurice
 15092 | D:10     | Killed Maurice
 15361 | D:10     | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 15475 | D:10     | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
 15905 | D:10     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 16416 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 16756 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 16796 | Lair:1   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 |
---------------+----------------------------------+-----
Armour         |  4                    5  7  8  9 |  9.2
Fighting       |     4        5  6  8     9 10    | 10.4
Shields        |     4                 5  6  7    |  7.7
Long Blades    |        3  4  5  6  7  9 11 12    | 12.4
Dodging        |                       1     2    |  2.3
Throwing       |                       1  4  6  7 |  7.4
Stealth        |                          1       |  1.7
Evocations     |                                1 |  1.0

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Long sword        |   108 |   100 |     5 |       ||   213
       Headbutt          |    15 |    15 |    70 |    48 ||   148
       Scimitar          |       |       |   313 |   201 ||   514
Throw: Stone             |    12 |     8 |       |    44 ||    64
       Javelin           |       |     3 |    88 |    90 ||   181
       Throwing net      |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
       Tomahawk          |       |       |       |    14 ||    14
Invok: Berserk           |       |       |     4 |     4 ||     8
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     3 |     4 ||     7
  Use: Scroll            |       |    12 |     3 |     8 ||    23
       Potion            |       |       |     4 |     1 ||     5
  Eat: Chunk             |     3 |     4 |     7 |     6 ||    20
       Ration            |     1 |     1 |     5 |     4 ||    11
Armor: Scale mail        |    42 |    42 |     2 |       ||    86
       Chain mail        |       |       |   145 |    40 ||   185
       Plate armour      |       |       |       |    29 ||    29
Dodge: Dodged            |    30 |    33 |    63 |    45 ||   171
Block: Shield            |    44 |    65 |   134 |   112 ||   355
Rpst.: Long sword        |     5 |     7 |     1 |       ||    13
       Scimitar          |       |       |    18 |     9 ||    27

A common strategy for melee characters is to carry a stabbing weapon or a blunt weapon just for the purpose of dealing with hydras. Search for short swords, rapiers, maces, flails, tridents... Pick whichever one has the best enchantment level or the best brand and have it on you in case you run into a hydra. You don't need to train any levels in it, just have it by your side and use it in conjunction with god powers or wands to kill the hydra.

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 799

Joined: Wednesday, 19th June 2013, 09:31

Post Thursday, 20th December 2018, 14:28

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

TheMeInTeam wrote:If you have enough defensive investment to pull them upstairs you can pillar dance forever to reset the fight every time it goes kind of badly until you win. It's annoying but consistent, having a regen item is a big QoL booster to such an approach.


Can you? It was my understanding that there was a random element to movement that essentially was put in the game to stop this being possible. Essentially every few turns a monster will catch you a bit, and every few turns you'll pull away a bit, even with identical move speed. This allows things to attack you every now and then while pillar dancing.

Or am I misinformed?
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 4434

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Thursday, 20th December 2018, 18:19

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

Generally, you can, as long as being in melee with the hydra for a turn or two won't kill you. On average, you stay about the same distance from the hydra.

But pillar-dancing a hydra (or anything, really) is a fate worse than death. If you can pull a hydra upstairs and pillar dance it to death, you can also pull it upstairs, move until you have a free space between you (or use Swiftness or something), and then go back down the stairs and it's trapped on the other level forever.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

Blades Runner

Posts: 584

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Thursday, 20th December 2018, 20:18

Re: How can I deal with this hydra?

njvack wrote:Generally, you can, as long as being in melee with the hydra for a turn or two won't kill you. On average, you stay about the same distance from the hydra.

But pillar-dancing a hydra (or anything, really) is a fate worse than death. If you can pull a hydra upstairs and pillar dance it to death, you can also pull it upstairs, move until you have a free space between you (or use Swiftness or something), and then go back down the stairs and it's trapped on the other level forever.


Monsters wander around. I will do this with things that I definitely can't kill easily (early phantoms or dangerous uniques), but broadly speaking there's always a small risk you'll have to go up stairs to get away with something and wind up with a hydra in your face, unless you're willing to run it up multiple floors I guess. Gets old fast when you go back down and see another hydra or two. If I have a setup that can kill them safely I *usually* will.

Most cases you can find some head-chopping flame brand and swing it with no skill. Doesn't matter if hydra heals to full, 0 heads = dead hydra.

Hydras are something of a special case with regards to movement. From what I've been told/seen in game, they always use all their auts on attack per turn. So if a hydra is slightly faster than you it will attack you every round as you run, but only with 1-2 heads. Either way on rando energy generally isn't going to kill you unless you're running while very weak. Taking it up the stairs is the bigger risk since that's >1 turn of action and the hydra can and will use those to attack. With good AC + decent evasion + maybe shield you'll be fine. If you're a felid you shouldn't try it.

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