OpWz with willies in the Lair

[OwlQaeda]

Hi All,

This is my first direct dip into the wealth of knowledge that lingers here in the Tavern.

I've had one 3 rune victory in the past with a sturdy tab-centric MiBe. Since then I've been branching out with other combos often in ending in endless bitter tasting lonely deaths of stupidity. So I decided to step out from lurking in the shadows of the Tavern and ask for some help with a young Octopode with high dreams of progressing in some classic Zero-to-Hero Coming of Age saga in pursuit of the Orb. For some reason I've become attached, perhaps it's because of his jaunty hat. Actually it probably is due to his jaunty hat. Such a sartorial angle it sits on his bulbous head.

Anyway, he's creeping around the Lair like a young man who's bravely gone to prom without a date.

Here's his Character Dump: (apologies if it's overly bloated)

  Code:

OwlQaeda the Thaumaturge (Octopode Wizard)         Turns: 17735, Time: 02:32:19

Health: 72/72      AC:  5    Str:  6    XL:     11   Next: 74%
Magic:  24/24      EV: 16    Int: 31    God:    Kikubaaqudgha [**....]
Gold:   770        SH:  5    Dex: 12    Spells: 9/28 levels left

rFire    . . .     SeeInvis .   a - +12 trident "Pojusor" {flame, Int+8}
rCold    . . .     Gourm    .   u - +0 buckler
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   f - +0 hat
rPois    .         Spirit   .   v - amulet of magic regeneration
rElec    .         Reflect  .   r - +4 ring of protection
rCorr    .         Harm     .   h - +1 ring of evasion
MR       .....                  (no ring)
Stlth    ++++......             (no ring)
HPRegen  0.22/turn              (no ring)
MPRegen  0.44/turn              (no ring)
                                (no ring)
                                (no ring)

@: no status effects
A: almost no armour, stealthy swim, amphibious, 8 rings, constrict 8, camouflage
1, gelatinous body 1
a: Receive Corpses, Renounce Religion


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Kikubaaqudgha.
Kikubaaqudgha is pleased with you.
You are near starving.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 11 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth.

You have collected 770 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +12 trident "Pojusor" (weapon) {flame, Int+8}
 i - a +0 trident
 l - a +2 hunting sling of freezing
 x - a +3 dagger of holy wrath
 F - the +5 whip of a bazaar {slash, rPois MR++ Int+4}
 
Missiles
 e - 281 stones (quivered)
 g - 84 sling bullets

Armour
 f - a +0 hat (worn)
 u - a +0 buckler (worn)
   
Magical Staves
 b - an uncursed staff of power {MP+17, !a}
   
Jewellery
 h - a +1 ring of evasion (right tentacle)
   
 o - an uncursed amulet of regeneration {+regen, !d}
   
 q - a +2 amulet of reflection
   
 r - a +4 ring of protection (left tentacle)
 t - an uncursed ring of ice {rC+, rF-}
 v - an amulet of magic regeneration (around mantle)
 B - a tubular bronze ring
 D - a ring of ice {rC+, rF-}
 E - a twisted moonstone ring
 
Wands
 s - a wand of polymorph (8)
 H - a wand of digging (13)
Scrolls
 k - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon
 p - 3 scrolls of magic mapping {!r}
 y - 4 scrolls of fear
 C - 2 scrolls of remove curse
Potions
 d - 3 potions of heal wounds
 j - a fizzy white potion
 m - 3 potions of curing
 n - a potion of magic
 w - a purple potion
 z - a smoky amethyst potion
 A - a bubbling ruby potion
Comestibles
 c - 16 rations


   Skills:
 - Level 6.0 Fighting
 + Level 3.4 Polearms
 - Level 3.0 Slings
 + Level 4.7 Dodging
 - Level 7.0 Stealth
 - Level 4.0 Shields
 + Level 9.2 Spellcasting
 - Level 5.0 Conjurations
 - Level 2.4 Summonings
 - Level 7.0 Necromancy
 - Level 1.5 Translocations
 - Level 3.7 Fire Magic
 + Level 1.4 Ice Magic
 - Level 2.1 Air Magic
 - Level 5.0 Poison Magic


You have 9 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         1%          1    None
b - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          2%          2    None
c - Call Imp              Summ           ####....     1%          2    None
d - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      #####...     1%          3    None
e - Summon Ice Beast      Ice/Summ       ####....     16%         4    None
x - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  #####...     1%          3    None
A - Animate Dead          Necr           N/A          1%          4    None

Your spell library contains the following spells:

 Spells                   Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
 Animate Skeleton         Necr           N/A          1%          1    None
 Apportation              Tloc           ###...       1%          1    None
 Freeze                   Ice            ###.         1%          1    None
 Pain                     Necr           ####         1%          1    None
 Summon Small Mammal      Summ           ####         1%          1    None
 Sublimation of Blood     Necr           ######....   1%          2    None
 Throw Frost              Conj/Ice       ####..       1%          2    None
 Vampiric Draining        Necr           ######....   1%          3    None
 Regeneration             Chrm/Necr      #####.....   2%          3    None
 Confusing Touch          Hex            ##....       3%          1    None
 Sandblast                Erth           ##....       3%          1    None
 Spider Form              Tmut/Pois      ####......   3%          3    None
 Slow                     Hex            ##......     5%          2    None
 Ozocubu's Armour         Chrm/Ice       ###.....     8%          3    None
 Throw Icicle             Conj/Ice       ####....     10%         4    None
 Bolt of Magma            Conj/Fire/Erth ####......   30%         5    ###....
 Petrify                  Tmut/Erth      ##......     34%         4    None
 Dragon Form              Tmut           ##........   100%        7    ######.



Can anyone offer a lost young Octopode with high hopes of getting into Hogwarts one day any advice on what to do next?

Cheers,

[Sprucery]

Put on those unidentified rings to see what they are. I would memorize Apportation, Sublimation, Regeneration and Ozo's Armour for now. Later Throw Icicle.

Do Lair, then D to 12, then Orc, then D to 15. Then the Lair branches (not Slime).

Disclaimer: I suck with Octopodes.

[Airwolf]

Turn off Spellcasting. Turn on Fighting.

[Implojin]

Find Gastronok and kill him so that you can have two hats

[OwlQaeda]

The rings turned out to be a +1 EV and a protection from cold.

Fighting is on, Spellcasting is off.

I proceed with caution, with my hopes set on Hufflepuff.

Wish me luck.

[sanka]

I personally would only train dodging for a while, until you have at least 20+ EV (but I may keep training it even after that). I would also put some stats into DEX.

[Vajrapani]

I'd train a ton of dodge. Dodge is the lifeblood of any octopode.

I follow the mikee formula for earlygame training and tend to get 7ish fighting and 20~ EV by lair (while also investing in anything you find that will boost your survivability)

From looking at your morgue, this is the stuff that I'd invest in if I really wanted to have the highest chance to win the game :
- Memorise vampiric draining, this spell is clutch. (It does nothing at full HP, and barely anything at near-full HP though so keep that in mind)
- Memorise animate skeleton , macro it to cast on 'c'. It's always useful
- Dodging = good EV lets you fight most guys 1v1
- Polearms = great randart trident, even better when you're poking over summons or undead allies
- Summoning = get your ice beast failure rate down a little

This a good guide for general Octopode tactics : http://www.ultraviolent4.com/characters/opwn.html

It took me around 70~ tries to win my first octopode, but now it only takes me 1 attempt to win. It's all about careful use of turns and investing in the thing that will give you the most immediate benefit.

[OwlQaeda]

So I'm slipping my way through Lair:5. Regen + Sublimation is a killer Combo (thanks Sprucery)
I'm pushing my EV up towards 20 (thanks sanka and Vajrapani)
With any luck I'll find that fashion victim Gastronok and plunder his stylish hat for my own collection. From then on I shall be known as Johnny "Two Hats".
Wish me luck

[severen]

General Octopode advice:

1) Know when to run. This mostly means certain things are too dangerous and as soon as you see them you should GTFO and that stealth is actually rather important for certain Op starts.
a) Specifically for Lair Hydra are prohibitively dangerous to melee even with decent EV, unless you have some other thing to help (a good shield, rather good ice form, summon ice beast)
b) Its is perfectly fine to leave various things for later as an Op, especially in Lair. Op starts can often require you to put many pieces together and having enough xp for all pieces or getting lucky on drops may not happen. You can wind up
making a large jump in effectiveness just because something came online.

2) Op need shields to be able to melee well.
a) As a general rule I do not like to fight Death Yaks without a combined defense of roughly 50. This is obtainable on Op who have a shield and have trained dodging and shield and/or got lucky on rings and/or can supplement AC with something like Ozo Armor. Its unlikely on a caster start.

3) Whether you should train dodging a lot depends on your start, Fi might do more shield, summoner can usually be fine with lower dodge.

4) Many people will tell you to focus on defense and this is not wrong per se. But I would encourage you to explore overhwhelming offense as well, especially in the early levels.
a) If you are curious what I mean by this, try some throw away games where you start melee Op. Maybe an OpFi. On one put 100% training into unarmed up to 9 then train fighting to 7 and train some shield as well, on another put like 33/33/33 into a weapon skill(UC if you like or whatever)/Shield/Dodge. This is not meant to prove all offense is better or that UC optimal or even good. But you may be surprised by the results. Note: this is not meant to get you through lair.
b) an Op with Summon Ice Beast online does not need significant dodge if they know what they are doing, and an Op typically has enough early offense to get it castable.

Wizard starting book isn't bad per se but does little to counter balance Op issues, finding some other book early can make the start much easier. Op needs to be able to do one or a combination of the following in the early game:
1) kill quickly
2) have a shield
3) have spells/weapons that soften up from a distance or keep things at a distance (summons, clouds etc)
a) note that this is helped greatly by having decent stealth (not necessarily excellent, decent is often enough )

20 EV is a good goal, but it will not be sufficient without one or more of these factors to buttress it. Additionally certain cases will be better served by putting less into dodge if they are able to develop one or more of these strategies fully.

However you will always eventually invest in dodge to at least 15 or so. Whether you should immediately invest can vary.

[OwlQaeda]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Unfortunately my OpWz didn't make it into Hufflepuff. After 3 hours of glorious cautious critical thinking I let a Lindwurm kill me after I'd cleared the majority of Lair:6.

Such sleepy hubris!

Please kids, don't play Crawl tired.

I've had a sufficient period of mourning, wiped my tears away, had a stern talk with myself in the mirror and have started again with enough Ritalin to write two PhD thesises. This plus the collected wisdom above should equal a glorious victory for this magical cephalopod.

[Airwolf]

Performance-enhancing drugs!!!

[OwlQaeda]

It worked for Lance, so why can't it work for this cephalopod? Just because we have difficulties on bicycles doesn't mean we shouldn't have access to the same drugs as pro-athletes.

I feel an Internet campaign coming on.

[svendre]

Try an Octopode hunter of Gozag with a hand crossbow. Melee most of the early stuff, use the xbow on things that can hurt you. Save your pennies and go for a jewelry store. Look for as many items as you can with str/dex and slaying. If you're lucky enough you can have a very effective sniper. Be on the lookout for the blink spell and toss a little xp at it as well.

[severen]

If you wanna melee and not go caster start. OpFi (or a few other starts like hunter) of Oka and train throwing early (some, like 5 or so) can help a lot. Not saying its the best or whatever, but Oka gifts are actually quite useful for Op since they are so focused. You are basically going to get an at least ok shield and hat. Heroism is very very useful for Op, the buff to dodge and shield and throw when used ahead of time can really help a lot.

If you wanna be a caster its quite different. In fact I generally have that decision be the first major deicision point on an Op and do fairly different things based on it.

I think the easiest start may be OpBe but it really really falls off in effectiveness, I have 3 runed it and I killed OOFs on Zot5 when I did it, but its a scary feeling the whole way. IMO ending with Trog on Op is one of if not the least effective builds. But the start is really easy, Berserk with excellent aux attacks is strong.