spell caster mid-ish game advice?


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

arc

Temple Termagant

Posts: 8

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 01:50

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 03:31

spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Hi,

I've got a couple wins now with Mi[Be,Fi]. I want to try and get a spell caster win so I'm focusing on GrEE after the guide based on 0.17, which I've read mixed things about.

I have a decent grasp now of how to live to D:10 but I always seem to end up dieing in the middle of lair or in one of the S branches before getting my first or second rune. I typically end up not doing damage fast enough to some of the higher HP or more armored enemies. I've noticed that Sand blast, stone arrow, (both at full power), and LRD (at whatever power i'm usually at by then, somewhere between half to 2/3 max) all similar damage (per target in the LRD case).

my questions are:
- What spells do you look for after you have all your Geomancy spells online?
- I often use stone arrow in safe circumstances to save stones. beyond that when do you pick between sandblast and stone arrow?

thanks!

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8666

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 04:29

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

If LRD is doing similar damage to Stone Arrow, either the monster has a lot of AC (LRD applies AC 3 times whereas Stone Arrow only applies it once), or something is very wrong with your spell power. Stone Arrow does a mean of 9+power*0.1875 damage, LRD does a mean of 9+power*0.3 when used on rock walls.
arc wrote:(at whatever power i'm usually at by then, somewhere between half to 2/3 max)
Half of max power displays as ########.. on the spell screen. If you have #####....., that's only 35 to 49 power. Max power is 200. Max power is not something you should aim for, but 49 power is very low...
arc wrote:- What spells do you look for after you have all your Geomancy spells online?
Apportation, Summon Butterflies, and Swiftness, mainly. Animate Skeleton, Animate Dead, and Deflect Missiles are also extremely good if you can tolerate using them. You do not need to (and shouldn't) train any additional skill for these spells; they don't need much spell power, and success rate for deflect missiles doesn't matter since you don't have to actually cast it in combat, it doesn't expire with time like other buffs.
If you are willing to invest in extra skills, then additional summoning and necromancy spells are almost always really good. The main thing not to do is train other elemental spell schools; all of their spellpower-reliant spells are not only redundant with your starting spells, but flat out worse than LRD.
EE is funny because LRD is pretty much your primary damage spell all game. If you find Iron Shot or Borgnjor's Vile Clutch, go ahead and memorize them, but you'll be using LRD even in Zot.
On Gr, you do have the possibility of casting Shatter relatively early, but this will severely cripple your character's ability to do everything that isn't casting Shatter, because the high skill level needed is extremely expensive, even with a +2 aptitude.

edit: fixed mean damage amounts, I accidentally multiplied the power factors by 4 because I'm bad
Last edited by duvessa on Wednesday, 22nd August 2018, 02:13, edited 1 time in total.

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 2
arc, nago

arc

Temple Termagant

Posts: 8

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 01:50

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 04:44

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

hmm I meant by # marks. not numerical power though i didn't realize it was a log-ish scale!

So i typically train conj and earth to the same level until stone arrow is maxed then focus earth + other stuff as I've been experimenting. What should I aim for on power for LRD? Should I be prioritizing conj lower?

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 05:08

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Look for: iron shot, Lehudib's Crystal Spear, orb of destruction. You want one of those three spells on almost any blaster mage because they deal high damage that can't be resisted because it is unbranded. With good spellpower, any of these three spells can kill basically any enemy in the game. Note that orb of destruction is finicky and works best in open areas fired vertically or horizontally.

However, those three spells are all single-target spells, and are inefficient in MP if you are fighting a group. Therefore, you also want to pick up spells that are good at killing groups of enemies at once. LRD is okay at this but requires there to be a wall in the right place, which may not be the case, particularly in swamp where there are almost no walls at all. Also LRD is bad at getting past enemy AC. Also LRD is very loud, which makes it dangerous in some situations.

Fire magic is the most common and probably best school for mass damage. Look for fireball, bolt of fire, bolt of magma. These three spells can handle any enemy or pack of enemies in the game, as long as the enemies do not resist fire.

The main mass damage alternative to fire magic is ice magic, with bolt of cold and/or freezing cloud.

Bolt of draining, bolt of lightning, or in desperate cases venom bolt can also be used for mass damage. However, these are generally inferior choices and should only be used if you can't find fire/ice/magma bolt spells.

Irradiate is also a good spell, particularly if you haven't found iron shot, lehudib's crystal spear, or orb of destruction. Irradiate also does great unbranded damage and is good enough to kill any enemy in the game. However, repeated casts of irradiate cause contam, and you want to avoid yellow contam because it causes bad mutations. Also irradiate is melee range, which is not ideal. On the plus side irradiate hits everything next to you at once, so it's useful if you are being attacked by multiple melee opponents. On the minus side irradiate is extremely loud.

Borgnjor's Vile Clutch is also good for area damage.

You want your damage spell schools to be trained to around 10-15 to do good damage. Earth and Conj will eventually be trained to 15+.

It is in addition possible to use a weapon on a mage. This can help take the place of some of your mass damage - you would generally not want to use the weapon on the most dangerous enemies, but it can help clean up weaker ones at no MP cost. Good weapon choices are demon weapons, morningstars, or highly enchanted artifact weapons. You will want to use a buckler or shield, and you don't want to dump too much XP into the weapon skill, so avoid two handed weapons.

For non-damage spells, you mostly want to look for swiftness, blink, passage of golubria, and regeneration. But worry about getting some damage spells up first.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

Blades Runner

Posts: 531

Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 05:16

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

arc wrote:Hi,

I've got a couple wins now with Mi[Be,Fi]. I want to try and get a spell caster win so I'm focusing on GrEE after the guide based on 0.17, which I've read mixed things about.

I have a decent grasp now of how to live to D:10 but I always seem to end up dieing in the middle of lair or in one of the S branches before getting my first or second rune. I typically end up not doing damage fast enough to some of the higher HP or more armored enemies. I've noticed that Sand blast, stone arrow, (both at full power), and LRD (at whatever power i'm usually at by then, somewhere between half to 2/3 max) all similar damage (per target in the LRD case).

my questions are:
- What spells do you look for after you have all your Geomancy spells online?
- I often use stone arrow in safe circumstances to save stones. beyond that when do you pick between sandblast and stone arrow?

thanks!


Beyond the starting earth spells, I look primarily for iron shot and/or LCS and shatter.
I use sandblast when trying to conserve mana because I'm expecting a larger onslaught incoming. I use stone arrow more when I get the drop on something still asleep and I'm fairly sure I don't need to fight a ton more creatures (so I can afford the extra mana and save a stone.)


Earth magic school is good overall because it isn't resisted, but it does somewhat suffer when going against high AC and high EV targets when there are no walls nearby which are practical to use for LRD. If you have a high int and you invest in conjurations significantly (which isn't a bad idea on a gargoyle), then I recommend branching out into fire. Having versatility to deal with a wider variety of situations is worth it to gain things like flame tongue, throw flame (create clouds on water and break LOS), conjure flame, sticky flames, bolt of magma, fireball, bolt of fire, ignition, and eventually fire storm.

P.S. I'm pretty sure you'll hear a load about how bad bolt of magma is, but ignore it. It's a very useful spell in this hybrid earth/fire build.

Good luck!

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Berder

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8666

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 05:34

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

arc wrote:hmm I meant by # marks. not numerical power though i didn't realize it was a log-ish scale!
It's even weirder than a log scale:
  Code:
#            0-9
##          10-14
###         15-24
####        25-34
#####       35-49
######      50-74
#######     75-99
########   100-149
#########  150-199
########## 200

arc wrote:So i typically train conj and earth to the same level until stone arrow is maxed then focus earth + other stuff as I've been experimenting. What should I aim for on power for LRD? Should I be prioritizing conj lower?
Aiming for a specific spell power is rarely a good idea; I mentioned it because you definitely want more than 49. You don't want to train earth magic to 15 right away or anything, but you do want to increase your intelligence as much as possible.
You should be prioritizing conjurations lower, yes. You've got one conjurations/earth spell and four spells that are earth spells but aren't conjurations.

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks:
nago

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4341

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 05:57

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

What god do you use? If Vehumet, you can easily cast fireball and alike. If Ashenzari, then you can easily become a great hybrid (as Gr). You can even go some unusual paths like Makhleb, Kiku, Ru, Oka or Chei and the characters will be really different from each other.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 07:01

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

As an example, here's my current character. It's a FoWz^Vehumet who has just finished orc. Wizards start without any heavy-hitter spells, so I depended on Vehumet to give me some. He has given me Freeze, Throw Flame, Freezing Cloud, and just now Bolt of Fire, plus some other stuff I didn't want. I also got lucky by finding a Book of Power in lair, which gave me Iron Shot and Bolt of Magma. Also I found Battlesphere somewhere, though I don't really need it.

You can see that I have trained Shields to 9 (which is enough to use a full-sized shield on a Formicid), Fighting to about 10, Dodging to about 8. I trained Spellcasting, Conjurations, Earth Magic, and Fire Magic all to about 10, which is enough to use Iron Shot and Bolt of Magma.

In addition to that I have just a little bit of air and ice magic, like 5 levels of each, so I can cast Freezing Cloud. I may amnesia Freezing Cloud later.

I also found a great weapon in lair, Snakebite, and have trained that a bit.

Mostly this character kills dangerous things with iron shot and with fire magic.

This character will proceed by getting more Spellcasting, Earth, Conjurations, and Fire magic, so that his main spells are stronger, by training Snakebite to minimum delay (12 skill in M&F), and by improving his defenses - training fighting, dodging, maybe switching to a slightly heavier armor. Also, some more Evocations will help for those times when he runs out of MP.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.22.0-25-g7663229 (webtiles) character file.

Berder the Thaumaturge (Formicid Wizard)           Turns: 38483, Time: 02:49:15

Health: 124/124    AC:  8    Str: 12    XL:     16   Next: 67%
Magic:  29/33      EV: 16    Int: 25    God:    Vehumet [******]
Gold:   1709       SH: 11    Dex: 11    Spells: 1/41 levels left

rFire    . . .     SeeInvis +   c - staff of conjuration
rCold    . . .     Gourm    .   w - +1 shield
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   Z - +1 robe {MR+}
rPois    .         Spirit   .   (helmet unavailable)
rElec    .         Reflect  .   S - +0 cloak
rCorr    .         Harm     .   O - +2 pair of gloves
MR       ++...                  U - +0 pair of boots of Meuchimn {Dex+2 SInv}
Stlth    ++........             R - amulet of regeneration
HPRegen  0.70/turn              X - ring of teleportation (curse)
MPRegen  0.23/turn              (no ring)

@: no status effects
A: permanent stasis, dig shafts and tunnels, four strong arms, antennae 3
a: Dig, Shaft Self, Renounce Religion


You are on level 2 of the Orcish Mines.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 21 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ice Cave.

You have collected 2075 gold pieces.
You have spent 366 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +8 whip "Snakebite" {curare, rPois}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It poisons the flesh of those it strikes.
   
   It protects you from poison.
 b - a +0 shortbow
 d - a +2 quarterstaff of holy wrath
 h - a +0 hand axe of electrocution
 D - a +2 halberd of venom
 F - a hand axe of distortion
 V - a +2 dire flail of draining
Missiles
 K - 251 arrows
Armour
 e - a +0 leather armour
 r - a +0 robe
 s - a glowing scale mail
 w - a +1 shield (worn)
 C - a large shield
 O - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 S - a +0 cloak (worn)
 U - the +0 pair of boots of Meuchimn (worn) {Dex+2 SInv}
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It lets you see invisible.
 Z - a +1 robe of magic resistance (worn)
Magical Staves
 c - an uncursed staff of conjuration (weapon)
 g - an uncursed staff of energy
Jewellery
 R - an amulet of regeneration (around neck)
 X - a cursed ring of teleportation (left hand)
Wands
 l - a wand of polymorph (25)
 q - a wand of digging (8)
 z - a wand of iceblast (12)
 J - a wand of scattershot (7)
 L - a wand of random effects (39)
 P - a wand of flame (54)
 Q - a wand of acid (7)
Scrolls
 f - a scroll of fear
 m - 6 scrolls of magic mapping
 n - 3 scrolls of enchant weapon
 p - 4 scrolls of enchant armour
 t - a scroll of fog
 y - 5 scrolls of immolation
 M - a scroll of vulnerability
 N - 5 scrolls of remove curse
Potions
 i - 3 potions of ambrosia
 j - 6 potions of might
 k - a potion of invisibility
 o - 6 potions of flight
 u - 3 potions of lignification
 x - 7 potions of curing
 A - 2 potions of cancellation
 B - 5 potions of heal wounds
 E - a potion of mutation
 H - 3 potions of brilliance
 T - 2 potions of agility
 W - 2 potions of resistance
Comestibles
 v - 44 rations
 G - 10 chunks of flesh


   Skills:
 - Level 10.8 Fighting
 + Level 7.2 Maces & Flails
 - Level 8.3 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 9.0 Shields
 + Level 13.0 Spellcasting
 + Level 11.1 Conjurations
 - Level 1.0 Summonings
   Level 0.8 Translocations
 + Level 8.0 Fire Magic
 - Level 6.2 Ice Magic
 - Level 4.0 Air Magic
 + Level 11.2 Earth Magic
 - Level 0.3 Poison Magic
 + Level 5.8 Evocations


You have one spell level left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         1%          1    None
b - Call Imp              Summ           ###.....     3%          2    None
c - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      #######.     1%          3    None
d - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ######..     1%          3    None
e - Freeze                Ice            ####         1%          1    None
f - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      ######       1%          2    None
g - Freezing Cloud        Conj/Ice/Air   ######....   9%          6    #####..
h - Bolt of Magma         Conj/Fire/Erth #######...   1%          5    ###....
i - Iskenderun's Battles  Conj/Chrm      ######..     3%          5    ###....
j - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #######...   1%          6    #####..
k - Bolt of Fire          Conj/Fire      #######...   3%          6    #####..

Your spell library contains the following spells:

 Spells                   Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
 Corona                   Hex            ###....      3%          1    None
 Infusion                 Chrm           ###.         3%          1    None
 Ensorcelled Hibernation  Hex/Ice        ####..       1%          2    None
 Dazzling Spray           Conj/Hex       ######       1%          3    None
 Inner Flame              Hex/Fire       #####...     1%          3    None
 Throw Icicle             Conj/Ice       ######..     1%          4    None
 Venom Bolt               Conj/Pois      ######....   2%          5    ###....
 Leda's Liquefaction      Hex/Erth       #####.....   3%          4    None
 Irradiate                Conj/Tmut      ######....   3%          5    ###....
 Shroud of Golubria       Chrm/Tloc      ###.......   4%          2    None
 Slow                     Hex            ###.....     5%          2    None
 Song of Slaying          Chrm           ###.....     5%          2    None
 Lesser Beckoning         Tloc           ###.......   8%          3    None
 Portal Projectile        Hex/Tloc       ###...       9%          3    None
 Orb of Destruction       Conj           #######...   9%          7    ######.
 Confuse                  Hex            ###.....     11%         3    None
 Regeneration             Chrm/Necr      ###.......   11%         3    None
 Spectral Weapon          Hex/Chrm       ###.....     11%         3    None
 Tukima's Dance           Hex            ###.....     11%         3    None
 Cause Fear               Hex            ###.......   34%         4    None
 Statue Form              Tmut/Erth      #####....    50%         6    #####..
 Spellforged Servitor     Conj/Summ      ######....   52%         7    ######.
 Summon Forest            Summ/Tloc      ###.......   56%         5    ###....
 Summon Mana Viper        Hex/Summ       ###.....     63%         5    ###....
 Hydra Form               Tmut           ###.......   99%         6    #####..
 Dragon Form              Tmut           ###.......   100%        7    ######.
 Malign Gateway           Summ/Tloc      ###.......   100%        7    ######.
 Tornado                  Air            #####.....   100%        9    #######
 Blink                    Tloc           Unusable     N/A         2    N/A


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (13/15)            Temple (0/1) D:7            Lair (6/6) D:10
 Shoals (0/4) Lair:3        Snake (0/4) Lair:4        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (2/2) D:10            Elf (0/3) Orc:2        Vaults (0/5) D:13

Altars:
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Makhleb
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Zin
Beogh

Shops:
D:6 *   Orc:1 ?   Orc:2 :**[

Annotations:
D:7 exclusion: oklob sapling
D:12 Sonja
Lair:1 3 runed doors, rc+ vault nice loot, Moaqune's ghost, journeyman DDFi
Lair:5 exclusion: oklob plant
Lair:6 4 runed doors, SaitamaSayan's ghost, journeyman TrMo


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You cannot be hasted, slowed, berserked, paralysed or teleported.
You can dig through walls and to a lower floor.
Your four strong arms can wield two-handed weapons with a shield.
You have a pair of large antennae on your head. (SInv)


Message History

You kill the orc warrior!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
You feel your power returning.
Unknown command.
You start resting.
Eating one of 7 chunks of flesh. You eat one of the 7 chunks of flesh.
This raw flesh tastes terrible.
Magic restored.
Unknown command.
Things that are here:
a trident; an orc corpse
You butcher the orc corpse.
G - 8 chunks of flesh (gained 2)
You see here a trident.
Things that are here:
a glaive of venom; a plate armour
There isn't anything to butcher here.
There is a staircase to the Elven Halls here.
Things that are here:
a dagger of venom; a robe
There isn't anything to butcher here.
Things that are here:
a trident; a chain mail; an orc corpse
You butcher the orc corpse.
G - 11 chunks of flesh (gained 3)
Things that are here:
a trident; a chain mail; an orc skeleton
There isn't anything to butcher here.
Things that are here:
a glaive of venom; a plate armour
You see here a trident.
You see here a trident.
You now have 1709 gold pieces (gained 10).
Unknown command.
Items here: )) [ â€
a mace; a short sword; a scale mail; an orc corpse
Things that are here:
a club; a leather armour; an orc corpse
Items here: )) [ â€
a mace; a short sword; a scale mail; an orc corpse
You sense a monster nearby.
You sense a monster nearby.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
You open the door.
An orc, an orc warrior, 2 orc priests and 2 orc sorcerers come into view.
The orc shouts! You hear a shout! The orc sorcerer shouts!
An orc comes into view. It is wielding a flail.
The orc priest moves out of view.
Found a leatherbound book.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
You block the orc warrior's attack.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Casting: Bolt of Fire (safe; 3% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Bolt of Fire (safe; 3% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line
You feel a surge of power! The bolt of fire hits the orc warrior.
You kill the orc warrior!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
You feel your power returning. The bolt of fire hits the orc priest.
You kill the orc priest!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
You feel your power returning. The bolt of fire hits the orc sorcerer.
The orc sorcerer resists.
The orc sorcerer is severely wounded.
The orc sorcerer casts a spell.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Casting: Bolt of Fire (safe; 3% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Bolt of Fire (safe; 3% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line
You feel a surge of power! The bolt of fire hits the orc sorcerer.
The orc sorcerer resists.
You kill the orc sorcerer!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
Your Spellcasting skill increases to level 13!
The bolt of fire hits the orc priest.
You kill the orc priest!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Casting: Bolt of Fire (safe; 3% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Bolt of Fire (safe; 3% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line
You feel a surge of power! The bolt of fire hits the orc.
You kill the orc!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
You feel your power returning. The bolt of fire hits the orc sorcerer.
The orc sorcerer is severely wounded.
The bolt of fire hits the orc.
You kill the orc!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
You feel your power returning.
Unknown command.
Casting: Bolt of Fire (safe; 3% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Bolt of Fire (safe; 3% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line
You feel a surge of power!
The bolt of fire misses the orc sorcerer.
You are feeling hungry.
The orc sorcerer barely misses you.
Unknown command.
Casting: Bolt of Fire (safe; 3% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Bolt of Fire (safe; 3% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line
You feel a surge of power!
The bolt of fire misses the orc sorcerer.
You block the orc sorcerer's attack.
Casting: Bolt of Fire (safe; 3% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Bolt of Fire (safe; 3% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line
You feel a surge of power! The bolt of fire hits the orc sorcerer.
You kill the orc sorcerer!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
You feel your power returning.
You are feeling very hungry.
Items here: )) [ â€
a dagger; a robe; a flail; an orc corpse
You butcher the orc corpse.
G - 12 chunks of flesh (gained 1)
Things that are here:
a dagger; a robe; a flail
There is an open door here.
Things that are here:
a halberd; a plate armour; an orc corpse
You butcher the orc corpse.
G - 16 chunks of flesh (gained 4)
There is an open door here.
Things that are here:
a halberd; a plate armour; an orc skeleton
Items here: )) [[ †â€
Butcher an orc corpse? [(y)es/(n)o/(a)ll/(q)uit/?]
You butcher the orc corpse. x2
G - 17 chunks of flesh (gained 1); G - 20 chunks of flesh (gained 3)
Items here: )) [[
a dagger; an embroidered robe; a mace; a leather armour
You see here a hand axe.
There isn't anything to butcher here.
There is a fountain of blood here.
Eating one of 20 chunks of flesh. You eat one of the 20 chunks of flesh.
This raw flesh tastes terrible.
You pick up a book of Debilitation and begin reading...
You add the spells Inner Flame, Portal Projectile, Cause Fear and Leda's Liquefaction to your library.
There is a fountain of blood here.
Things that are here:
a hand axe; an orc corpse
Unknown command.
You butcher the orc corpse.
G - 20 chunks of flesh (gained 1)
Things that are here:
a hand axe; an orc skeleton
There isn't anything to butcher here.
You see here a hand axe.
There isn't anything to butcher here.
Items here: )) [[
a dagger; an embroidered robe; a mace; a leather armour
There isn't anything to butcher here.
There is an open door here.
Things that are here:
a halberd; a plate armour; an orc skeleton
There isn't anything to butcher here.
Things that are here:
a dagger; a robe; a flail
There isn't anything to butcher here.
There isn't anything to butcher here.
Unknown command.
There is an open door here.
Some of the chunks of flesh in your inventory have rotted away.
You see here a club.
Things that are here:
a chain mail; a trident
There is an open door, spattered with blood here.
You enter the shallow water.
Moving in this stuff is going to be slow.
Key pressed, stopping explore.
Some of the chunks of flesh in your inventory have rotted away.
You enter the shallow water.
Moving in this stuff is going to be slow.
Partly explored, can't reach some places.
Partly explored, can't reach some places.
Partly explored, can't reach some places.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Some of the chunks of flesh in your inventory have rotted away.
Partly explored, can't reach some places.
Partly explored, can't reach some places.
Unknown command.

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 #≈≈≈# #≈≈≈≈....#......'....#..
 #≈≈≈# #≈≈≈≈≈.P##......####.'..
 #≈≈≈##≈#≈≈≈≈.♣##.....#####.#[.
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  #≈≈≈≈#≈≈≈## ###≈..#.##..#)...


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Kirke (D:12)
  An orc warlord (Orc:2)
  2 entropy weavers (Lair:6)
  2 ettins (Orc:2)
  Snorg (Lair:5)
  Josephine (Lair:5)
  Erolcha (Orc:1)
  3 hydras
  4 two-headed ogres
  A queen ant (Lair:6)
  4 orc high priests (Orc:2)
  5 death yaks
  Urug (D:11)
  2 lindwurms (Lair:6)
  A wizard (D:12)
  3 oklob plants
  A deep elf mage (D:12)
  2 ugly things
  6 orc knights
  7 orc sorcerers
  Maurice (D:12)
  5 black mambas
  5 elephants
  An ice statue (IceCv)
  5 torpor snails (Lair:6)
  A gargoyle (D:12)
  12 spiny frogs
  2 rime drakes
  5 komodo dragons
  26 polar bears
  A queen bee (Lair:2)
  6 trolls
  3 tyrant leeches (Lair:6)
  6 hippogriffs
  3 raiju (Lair:6)
  9 dream sheep
  7 hornets
  14 blink frogs
  A slime creature (D:12)
  2 vampires (D:9)
  4 wraiths (Lair:5)
  66 yaks
  2 fire elementals (D:12)
  2 hogs (D:12)
  5 wyverns
  5 humans
  3 hungry ghosts
  3 basilisks
  3 vampire mosquitoes (D:13)
  Edmund (D:6)
  9 wargs
  A naga (Lair:4)
  25 water moccasins
  13 hell hounds
  26 soldier ants
  4 ice beasts
  6 porcupines
  49 orc warriors
  4 sky beasts
  6 phantoms
  A necrophage (D:6)
  15 black bears
  15 ogres
  8 centaurs
  39 wolves
  15 crocodiles
  5 big kobolds
  9 bullfrogs
  A gnoll sergeant (D:6)
  A wyvern skeleton (D:12)
  6 scorpions
  29 killer bees
  2 electric eels
  3 wights (D:9)
  6 crimson imps
  2 bullfrog zombies
  A quasit (D:11)
  3 jellies
  3 centaur skeletons
  30 orc priests
  5 hounds
  3 iguanas
  Jessica (D:3)
  Terence (D:2)
  26 worker ants
  25 orc wizards
  A hell rat (Lair:2)
  2 hound skeletons
  2 worker ant zombies
  3 gnolls (D:6)
  A river rat (Lair:2)
  17 adders
  4 shadow imps
  12 white imps (Lair:3)
  3 oozes
  An adder zombie (D:5)
  2 adder skeletons
  4 worms
  6 dart slugs
  8 leopard geckos
  150 orcs
  3 ball pythons
  8 bats
  6 giant cockroaches
  3 goblins
  7 hobgoblins
  3 jackals
  5 quokkas
  A ball python skeleton (D:6)
  3 frilled lizards (D:1)
  21 kobolds
  A leopard gecko skeleton (D:6)
  A quokka zombie (D:5)
  9 rats
943 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A human (D:12)
  12 fungi
  33 plants
46 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 989 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Berder the Formicid Wizard began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 13/13 MP: 4/4
    13 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Conjurations
   109 | D:1      | Noticed a hound
   336 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/19 MP: 0/6
   400 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Call Imp
   764 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/24 MP: 2/7
  1129 | D:1      | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame
  1505 | D:1      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/30 MP: 5/8
  1535 | D:1      | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud
  1657 | D:1      | Noticed a black bear
  1657 | D:1      | Noticed a swamp worm
  1657 | D:1      | Noticed a redback
  1989 | D:2      | Noticed Terence
  2480 | D:2      | Killed Terence
  2480 | D:2      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 35/35 MP: 2/9
  2563 | D:2      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
  3840 | D:3      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  3895 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 41/41 MP: 6/11
  3986 | D:3      | Noticed Jessica
  3989 | D:3      | Killed Jessica
  4224 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Spellcasting
  4472 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
  5143 | D:4      | Noticed a phantom
  5286 | D:4      | Killed a phantom
  5286 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 38/46 MP: 7/14
  5503 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  5503 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  6574 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  6738 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 58/58 MP: 10/16
  7318 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Spellcasting
  7488 | D:5      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  7598 | D:5      | Became a worshipper of Vehumet
  7734 | D:6      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  8151 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  8204 | D:6      | Reached skill level 7 in Spellcasting
  8397 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 45/69 MP: 2/20
  8901 | D:6      | Reached skill level 8 in Spellcasting
  9217 | D:6      | Noticed Edmund
  9281 | D:6      | Killed Edmund
  9337 | D:6      | Found Gozag's Platinum Reserve.
  9347 | D:6      | Reached * piety under Vehumet
  9347 | D:6      | Offered knowledge of Freeze by Vehumet.
  9440 | D:6      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  9880 | D:7      | You fall through a shaft for 2 floors!
  9925 | D:9      | Reached skill level 9 in Spellcasting
 10324 | D:9      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 82/82 MP: 15/23
 10331 | D:9      | Learned a level 1 spell: Freeze
 10515 | D:7      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
 10604 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic
 11011 | D:7      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
 11371 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
 11950 | D:9      | Reached ** piety under Vehumet
 11975 | D:9      | Offered knowledge of Sting by Vehumet.
 12039 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed hydra
 12044 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed hydra
 12044 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 12348 | D:9      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
 12540 | D:9      | Found an ornate altar of the Wu Jian Council.
 12630 | D:9      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 12681 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 12824 | D:8      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 89/91 MP: 21/25
 13222 | D:9      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
 13343 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 13415 | D:10     | Noticed an elephant
 13419 | D:10     | Noticed a death yak
 13760 | D:10     | Killed a death yak
 13760 | D:10     | Reached skill level 11 in Spellcasting
 13931 | D:10     | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 13993 | D:10     | Offered knowledge of Throw Flame by Vehumet.
 14013 | D:10     | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Flame
 14052 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 14700 | D:9      | Killed an elephant
 14700 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Fire Magic
 14928 | D:9      | Reached *** piety under Vehumet
 15205 | D:10     | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 15326 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 15426 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 15692 | Lair:1   | Found a runed gate.
 15693 | Lair:1   | Found a runed gate.
 15694 | Lair:1   | Found a runed gate.
 15758 | Lair:1   | Offered knowledge of Airstrike by Vehumet.
 16416 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 94/99 MP: 20/27
 16473 | Lair:1   | Noticed Moaqune's ghost (journeyman DDFi)
 17332 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic
 18490 | Lair:2   | Reached **** piety under Vehumet
 18600 | Lair:2   | Offered knowledge of Yara's Violent Unravelling by Vehumet.
 19479 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 55/105 MP: 4/28
 19661 | Lair:3   | Found a frozen archway.
 19681 | IceCv    | Entered an ice cave
 19690 | IceCv    | Reached ***** piety under Vehumet
 19698 | IceCv    | Offered knowledge of Olgreb's Toxic Radiance by Vehumet.
 20022 | IceCv    | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 20661 | IceCv    | Noticed a frost giant
 21562 | Lair:3   | Learned a level 4 spell: Olgreb's Toxic Radiance
 21723 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 21929 | Lair:3   | Found the +8 whip "Snakebite" {curare, rPois}
 22144 | Lair:4   | Learned a level 5 spell: Bolt of Magma
 22150 | Lair:4   | Learned a level 5 spell: Iskenderun's Battlesphere
 22157 | Lair:4   | Learned a level 6 spell: Iron Shot
 22245 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 1 in Earth Magic
 22307 | Lair:4   | Offered knowledge of Freezing Cloud by Vehumet.
 22841 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 5 in Earth Magic
 23062 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 23847 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 88/111 MP: 10/29
 24415 | Lair:5   | Noticed Josephine
 24548 | Lair:5   | Killed Josephine
 24548 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 1 in Maces & Flails
 24663 | Lair:5   | Identified the Grimoire of Icy Dislocation
 25076 | Lair:5   | Learned a level 6 spell: Freezing Cloud
 25077 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 25155 | Lair:5   | Noticed Snorg
 25510 | Lair:5   | Killed Snorg
 25964 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
 26028 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 26222 | Lair:6   | Noticed an entropy weaver
 26524 | Lair:6   | Offered knowledge of Poison Arrow by Vehumet.
 27192 | Lair:6   | Killed an entropy weaver
 27428 | Lair:6   | Found a runed gate.
 27430 | Lair:6   | Found a runed gate.
 27431 | Lair:6   | Found a runed gate.
 27583 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 15. HP: 68/117 MP: 8/30
 27584 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations
 27885 | Lair:6   | Found a runed door.
 28507 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 12 in Spellcasting
 28816 | Lair:6   | Offered knowledge of Lee's Rapid Deconstruction by Vehumet.
 28920 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 29380 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails
 30183 | Lair:6   | Noticed SaitamaSayan's ghost (journeyman TrMo)
 31212 | D:9      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 31354 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Earth Magic
 31702 | D:11     | Offered knowledge of Ozocubu's Refrigeration by Vehumet.
 32285 | D:11     | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
 32512 | D:11     | Noticed Urug
 32517 | D:11     | Killed Urug
 32908 | D:12     | Identified the Papyrus of Sand
 32915 | D:12     | Identified the Incunabulum of Axaxaxas mlö
 33040 | D:12     | Noticed Kirke
 33046 | D:12     | Killed Kirke
 33067 | D:12     | Identified the Tome of Plaster Cramp
 33185 | D:12     | Got a pair of scorched boots
 33191 | D:12     | Identified the +0 pair of boots of Meuchimn {Dex+2 SInv} (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
 33213 | D:12     | Noticed Maurice
 33215 | D:12     | Noticed Sonja
 33222 | D:12     | Killed Maurice
 33548 | D:12     | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic
 33548 | D:12     | Reached XP level 16. HP: 124/124 MP: 20/32
 34251 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 34346 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 34699 | Orc:1    | Found Bailil's Magic Scroll Shop.
 34713 | Orc:1    | Bought a scroll of fear for 52 gold pieces
 34764 | Orc:1    | Noticed Erolcha
 34769 | Orc:1    | Killed Erolcha
 34827 | Orc:1    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 34952 | Orc:1    | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces
 34952 | Orc:1    | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces
 34952 | Orc:1    | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces
 34972 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 36083 | Orc:2    | Reached ****** piety under Vehumet
 36715 | Orc:2    | Found Zulasuf's Book Emporium.
 36718 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 36731 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 36733 | Orc:2    | Offered knowledge of Conjure Ball Lightning by Vehumet.
 36921 | Orc:2    | Found Ofoasesili's Assorted Antiques.
 36941 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll labeled ONI ACOIDYHA for 28 gold pieces
 36941 | Orc:2    | Bought an agate ring for 140 gold pieces
 36944 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 56 gold pieces
 37705 | Orc:2    | Found Goipt's Armour Boutique.
 37976 | Orc:2    | Found Cuxuroh's General Store.
 38001 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 38208 | Orc:2    | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Fire by Vehumet.
 38228 | Orc:2    | Learned a level 6 spell: Bolt of Fire
 38254 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 38376 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 13 in Spellcasting

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------------+-----
Conjurations   |  1  2  3  4     5                 8  9    10 11 | 11.1
Spellcasting   |                 4  5  7  9 10 11          12 13 | 13.0
Fighting       |                    3  5  8 10                   | 10.8
Ice Magic      |                             4              5  6 |  6.2
Shields        |                                8  9             |  9.0
Fire Magic     |                                4  7        8    |  8.0
Dodging        |                                   2  8          |  8.3
Earth Magic    |                                      5  9 10 11 | 11.2
Maces & Flails |                                         4  6  7 |  7.2
Air Magic      |                                         2  4    |  4.0
Evocations     |                                            4  5 |  5.8
Stealth        |                                                 |  2.4
Summonings     |                                                 |  1.0
Translocations |                                                 |  0.8
Poison Magic   |                                                 |  0.3

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Short sword       |     3 |    16 |       |       |       |       ||    19
       Whip              |       |    18 |    12 |       |   488 |   204 ||   722
       Trident           |       |       |   158 |   125 |    27 |       ||   310
       Dire flail        |       |       |     1 |    66 |       |       ||    67
       Quarterstaff      |       |       |       |    15 |       |       ||    15
       Halberd           |       |       |       |       |    34 |       ||    34
 Fire: Hunting sling     |       |       |    30 |       |       |       ||    30
       Shortbow          |       |       |    79 |   151 |       |     2 ||   232
 Cast: Magic Dart        |    83 |   176 |   238 |   214 |    19 |     6 ||   736
       Conjure Flame     |       |     6 |    29 |    57 |    85 |       ||   177
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |     3 |    14 |    32 |     3 |       ||    52
       Call Imp          |       |       |     1 |    15 |     3 |       ||    19
       Freeze            |       |       |       |   239 |    62 |       ||   301
       Throw Flame       |       |       |       |   137 |    75 |    10 ||   222
       Bolt of Magma     |       |       |       |       |   271 |   100 ||   371
       Iron Shot         |       |       |       |       |    21 |    26 ||    47
       Iskenderun's Batt |       |       |       |       |     3 |     1 ||     4
       Bolt of Fire      |       |       |       |       |       |     8 ||     8
       Freezing Cloud    |       |       |       |       |       |     3 ||     3
 Abil: Dig               |     4 |     2 |     3 |    10 |     9 |     4 ||    32
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |     2 |     6 |     2 ||    10
  Use: Scroll            |       |     7 |     8 |     6 |    10 |     6 ||    37
       Potion            |       |       |     1 |     3 |     3 |       ||     7
 Stab: Confused          |       |     1 |     3 |     1 |       |       ||     5
       Distracted        |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
       Sleeping          |       |       |       |     2 |     2 |     3 ||     7
  Eat: Chunk             |     3 |    12 |    15 |    25 |    69 |    27 ||   151
       Ration            |       |       |     1 |     2 |     5 |     1 ||     9
Armor: Robe              |     2 |    11 |     1 |       |    61 |    18 ||    93
       Leather armour    |       |       |    20 |    86 |    35 |       ||   141
Dodge: Dodged            |    13 |    61 |    54 |   164 |   327 |    72 ||   691
Block: Shield            |       |       |       |    68 |   313 |    75 ||   456

Here is the skill table showing when I trained what skills:
  Code:
Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------------+-----
Conjurations   |  1  2  3  4     5                 8  9    10 11 | 11.1
Spellcasting   |                 4  5  7  9 10 11          12 13 | 13.0
Fighting       |                    3  5  8 10                   | 10.8
Ice Magic      |                             4              5  6 |  6.2
Shields        |                                8  9             |  9.0
Fire Magic     |                                4  7        8    |  8.0
Dodging        |                                   2  8          |  8.3
Earth Magic    |                                      5  9 10 11 | 11.2
Maces & Flails |                                         4  6  7 |  7.2
Air Magic      |                                         2  4    |  4.0
Evocations     |                                            4  5 |  5.8
Stealth        |                                                 |  2.4
Summonings     |                                                 |  1.0
Translocations |                                                 |  0.8
Poison Magic   |                                                 |  0.3

This particular character has more skills trained than most, because at first I didn't know if I was going for ice or fire. But, just getting 5 levels in a spell school (or any skill) is pretty cheap, almost a negligible cost by later in the game. So I didn't lose very much by training a little air and ice on the side.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4341

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 07:21

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

I would train Dodging much earlier. For instance, at XL 9 you had Spellcasting 9, Fighting 8 and Shield 0 and trained Spellcasting to 10, Fighting to 10 and Ice to 4. The spellcasting increase is quite expensive and defense from extra Fighting is worse than 5-6 levels in Dodging I think.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 07:24

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

As a wizard, I was spending a lot of time using weapons to attack helpless enemies behind clouds of flame or confused by mephitic clouds. Therefore, the Fighting was trained not only for defense, but also to improve my damage with all weapons. With at the time only 9 dex, and Formicid -1 dodging aptitude (and +1 fighting aptitude), the value of dodging is reduced. My experience with "fsim man" taught me the surprising value of Fighting.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4341

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 07:29

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

My point is that I train defense earlier, it is too risky to be a glass-cannon when you are Fo in robe without shield. Also Spellcasting from 9 to 10 is more important than 3-4 levels in Dodging, really?
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

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nago

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4341

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 07:36

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Based on
{ 0, 50, 150, 300, 500, 750, // 0-5
1050, 1400, 1800, 2250, 2800, // 6-10
3450, 4200, 5050, 6000, 7050, // 11-15
8200, 9450, 10800, 12300, 13950, // 16-20
15750, 17700, 19800, 22050, 24450, // 21-25
27000, 29750 };
it looks like you might train Dodging from 1 to 4 indeed (Spellcasting aptitude 0, Dodging aptitude -1).
Fighting 8->10 cost about 900 points, that would be equivalent to Dodging 1->5.

Basically I'd train Dodging to 6 and Fighting to 9 instead of Spellcasting to 10 and Fighting to 10.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8666

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 08:17

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Wow, made it a whole 7 posts before changing the subject to a completely different person's character. It's a new record!

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 3
bel, Magipi, nago

bel

Dis Charger

Posts: 2100

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 13:48

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

OP should post a character dump or morgue here (or two or three of them if they like). It makes the advice more concrete. It also lets people here see more of the picture; sometimes what you think are doing wrong, is not what you're doing wrong -- the error is more basic and something else altogether.

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duvessa

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 16:13

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

duvessa wrote:Wow, made it a whole 7 posts before changing the subject to a completely different person's character. It's a new record!

What the heck are you complaining about. It's an illustration to show him how a blaster character can be skilled, at just around the point in the game he is having trouble with. I'd like to see you provide a dump of your own character following your own advice, which is imo weird. He asks how he can deal more damage with his spells, and you tell him to learn Apportation, Summon Butterflies, and DMSL without training it? How does that help him whatsoever?

I'd also like to forestall another pointless criticism by saying that, by this point in the game, this FoWz has about the same spells and skills a GrEE might have, so the fact it is a Wz does not matter. I am recommending he take the earth and fire spells that this character has, and train skills in a similar manner.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

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VeryAngryFelid

bel

Dis Charger

Posts: 2100

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 17:10

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

It's probably not good as a GrEE to only train conj for the first 6 XL. The OP is a relative newbie and have trouble getting past D:10. Such a skill-training table will likely confuse them.

Zot Zealot

Posts: 950

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 17:27

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Berder wrote:It's an illustration to show him how a blaster character can be skilled, at just around the point in the game he is having trouble with.


I know you think that there are two type of characters (blasters and brutes), so skilling is the same, but I must say I am not convinced.

Berder wrote: He asks how he can deal more damage with his spells, and you tell him to learn Apportation, Summon Butterflies, and DMSL without training it? How does that help him whatsoever?


The OP specifically asked what other spells to learn after the starting spellbook. This is very good advice, and despite being a bad player, it does not seem to be hard to me to figure out how these spells could help. I assume that maybe the OP could figure it out also.

Berder wrote:
I'd also like to forestall another pointless criticism by saying that, by this point in the game, this FoWz has about the same spells and skills a GrEE might have.


I am not convinced about it.

In particular, I second the opinion that as a GrEE you should train much more earth than conjurations, as LRD is way more important than stone arrow. Only train conj if you found iron shot (or maybe if you decide to go for LCS).

I personally would not learn orb of destruction on most earth elementalists.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 17:41

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

bel wrote:It's probably not good as a GrEE to only train conj for the first 6 XL. The OP is a relative newbie and have trouble getting past D:10. Such a skill-training table will likely confuse them.

Alright, maybe it would confuse them, but I think it should at least be obvious to *you* that I don't intend for them to train conj from XL1. The character is a model for what spells and skills you might want after Orc:2, it's not a model for a GrEE at XL1-10. Obviously a GrEE will be training earth at lower XLs.
sanka wrote:
Berder wrote: He asks how he can deal more damage with his spells, and you tell him to learn Apportation, Summon Butterflies, and DMSL without training it? How does that help him whatsoever?

The OP specifically asked what other spells to learn after the starting spellbook. This is very good advice, and despite being a bad player, it does not seem to be hard to me to figure out how these spells could help. I assume that maybe the OP could figure it out also.

He asked about it in the context of not being able to do enough damage. Of course, Stone Arrow is not going to do enough damage in an S branch, the advice to give him is what higher level damage spells he should take.

Aside from that, duvessa's advice is actually terrible. Cast DMSL without training any skills? Are you kidding me, you'll get red contam and badmuts doing that (from tier 3 charms miscasts) and with no spellpower the DMSL status will end almost as soon as anything shoots you. Apportation is a nice to have but virtually useless in any S branch. Summon Butterflies is a tavern meme that is not actually good beyond the early dungeon. And Duvessa didn't mention the most important utility spells, Blink and Regeneration.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 18:17

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Here is my most recent EE 3 rune win.
  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.22-a0-322-g60b3cfd (webtiles) character file.

1533913 Berder the Acrobat (level 27, 231/231 HPs)
             Began as a Vampire Earth Elementalist on Mar 28, 2018.
             Was the Champion of Ru.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes on Apr 3, 2018!
             
             The game lasted 06:13:56 (86809 turns).

Berder the Acrobat (Vampire Earth Elementalist)    Turns: 86809, Time: 06:13:57

Health: 231/231    AC: 12    Str: 13      XL:     27
Magic:  41/41      EV: 32    Int: 19 (22) God:    Ru [******]
Gold:   1996       SH:  0    Dex: 18      Spells: 15/54 levels left

rFire    + . .     SeeInvis +   a - +6 demon whip
rCold    + . .     Gourm    .   (shield unavailable)
rNeg     + + .     Faith    .   T - +2 robe {Archmagi}
rPois    +         Spirit   .   (no helmet)
rElec    .         Reflect  .   H - +2 cloak {rPois}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   G - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
MR       ++++.                  M - +2 pair of boots
Stlth    ++++......             O - amulet of Mehugof {RegenMP +Blink MR++ Stlth+}
HPRegen  0.24/turn              (ring unavailable)
MPRegen  0.52/turn              x - ring of protection from fire

@: regenerating slowly, studying Unarmed Combat
A: fangs 3, see invisible, deformed body, dopey 1, mutation resistance 1, sense
surroundings 1, screaming 1, unbreathing, missing a hand, inability to use
devices, hated by all, MP-powered wands
0: Orb of Zot
}: 3/15 runes: barnacled, slimy, gossamer
a: Bat Form, Draw Out Power, Power Leap, Apocalypse, Renounce Religion


You escaped.
You worshipped Ru.
Ru was exalted by your worship.
You were thirsty.

You visited 11 branches of the dungeon, and saw 54 of its levels.
You also visited: Ice Cave and Desolation.

You collected 6413 gold pieces.
You spent 4417 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +6 demon whip (weapon)
 b - the +1 demon whip "Fagyuf" {vamp, rC+}
   (You acquired it on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It inflicts no extra harm, but heals its wielder when it wounds a living
   foe.
   
   It protects you from cold.
 c - a +9 antimagic demon whip
 i - the +11 hand axe of Wondrous Power {flame, rF++ rC++ MR-}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Vaults)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to burn those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents. Big, fiery blades are also staple armaments of
   hydra-hunters.
   
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 Q - the +8 whip "Snakebite" {curare, rPois}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It poisons the flesh of those it strikes.
   
   It protects you from poison.
Missiles
 s - 1052 stones (quivered)
 t - 10 throwing nets
Armour
 d - a +2 helmet of see invisible
 A - a +2 cloak of magic resistance
 G - a +2 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
 H - a +2 cloak of poison resistance (worn)
 M - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 T - a +2 robe of the Archmagi (worn)
Magical Staves
 e - an uncursed staff of earth
 p - an uncursed staff of power
 w - an uncursed staff of wizardry
 U - an uncursed staff of air
Jewellery
 x - a ring of protection from fire (right hand)
 z - the ring "Ruodwuud" {rElec rF- rC+ AC+4 Dex+2}
   (You took it off a draconian annihilator on level 3 of the Realm of Zot)   
   
   [ring of protection]
   
   It affects your AC (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
 B - a +4 ring of slaying
 I - the cursed ring of Happiness {*Slow MP+9 AC-2 Int+8 Slay+2}
   (You found it in the Desolation of Salt)   
   
   [ring of protection]
   
   It affects your AC (-2).
   It affects your intelligence (+8).
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+2).
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
   It may slow you when you take damage.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 N - the ring of Wetitis {rC+ AC+5 Str+3 Int-4 SInv}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   [ring of protection]
   
   It affects your AC (+5).
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your intelligence (-4).
   It protects you from cold.
   It lets you see invisible.
 O - the amulet of Mehugof (around neck) {RegenMP +Blink MR++ Stlth+}
   (You found it in the Desolation of Salt)   
   
   [amulet of magic regeneration]
   
   It increases your magic regeneration.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It lets you blink.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 W - an uncursed ring of positive energy
Scrolls
 g - 17 scrolls of amnesia
 l - 10 scrolls of teleportation
 m - 7 scrolls of fear
 q - 4 scrolls of blinking
 y - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 C - a scroll of fog
 F - a scroll of silence
 J - 6 scrolls of immolation
 S - 22 scrolls of remove curse
 V - 14 scrolls of identify
 X - 7 scrolls of enchant armour
 Z - 5 scrolls of vulnerability
Potions
 f - 10 potions of blood
 h - 6 potions of flight
 j - 12 potions of curing
 k - 11 potions of agility
 n - 2 potions of might
 o - a potion of resistance
 r - 2 potions of brilliance
 u - 5 potions of heal wounds
 v - a potion of invisibility
 D - a potion of haste
 E - 7 potions of mutation
 L - 7 potions of berserk rage
 P - 4 potions of cancellation
 R - 7 potions of magic
 Y - 9 potions of ambrosia
Books
 K - a manual of Unarmed Combat


   Skills:
 + Level 22.1 Fighting
 - Level 12.0 Maces & Flails
 + Level 24.8 Dodging
 + Level 23.1 Stealth
 - Level 14.3 Spellcasting
 - Level 8.7 Conjurations
 - Level 4.8 Charms
 - Level 4.8 Necromancy
 - Level 4.1 Translocations
 - Level 11.6 Transmutations
 - Level 6.7 Fire Magic
 - Level 16.2 Earth Magic


You had 15 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           ######       0%          1    None
b - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       1%          3    None
c - Passwall              Tmut/Erth      #######...   1%          2    None
d - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           #######...   1%          5    ####...
e - Bolt of Magma         Conj/Fire/Erth ######....   1%          5    ####...
f - Petrify               Tmut/Erth      #######.     1%          4    None
g - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #######...   4%          6    #####..
h - Statue Form           Tmut/Erth      #######..    2%          6    #####..
i - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
j - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ####....     2%          2    None
r - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #####.....   1%          3    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6            Lair (6/6) D:9
 Shoals (4/4) Lair:3       Spider (4/4) Lair:4        Slime (5/5) Lair:6
    Orc (2/2) D:10            Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (4/5) D:14
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:3     Depths (5/5) D:15            Zot (5/5) Depths:5

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:5 :*   D:12 [   D:14 [?((   Orc:1 (   Orc:2 [!?*   Elf:1 %   Elf:2 [
Vaults:1 *   Vaults:3 *   Depths:3 [?%(

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:2 Depths:4 Depths:5
Pandemonium: Depths:1 Depths:3 Depths:4
Ziggurat: Depths:5
Trove: D:11 (give 5 scrolls of blinking)

Annotations:
D:3 JohnnyTrout's ghost, amateur DsAK
D:6 exclusion: centaur
Lair:5 blood bank


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You heal slowly.
You have razor-sharp teeth.
You have supernaturally acute eyesight. (SInv)
You are dopey. (Int -2)
You can survive without breathing.
You are missing a hand.
You cannot study or use magical devices.
You are hated by all.
Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body.
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.
You passively map a small area around you.
You occasionally shout uncontrollably at your foes.
You expend magic power (3 MP) to strengthen your wands.

You have escaped!

 #.#       #.#    #....
 #.###     #.#    #####
##...# #####.#        #
#..#.# #.....#        #
#.##'###'##..#        #
#%#§§≈≈≈§§##.#        #
#.#§§.ŤŤ##.#       ##
#.#§≈..§§≈##.#      ##.
#...≈.@.§§...#      #..
###§§§..§≈#..#     ##..
  #§§§§.§≈##.#     #...
  #§§≈≈≈.§##.#######.#.
  ##+###+###...........
   #..##.# #########.#.
   ##....#         #.#.
    #.###########  #.#.
    #...........####.#.


There were no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  the Royal Jelly (Slime:5)
  Mara (Depths:3)
  8 orbs of fire (Zot:5)
  3 ancient liches
  Saint Roka (Depths:1)
  Bai Suzhen (Spider:3)
  3 Killer Klowns
  2 bone dragons (Depths:5)
  2 curse toes
  Nikola (Vaults:2)
  7 golden dragons
  the Enchantress (Depths:2)
  2 electric golems
  13 tentacled monstrosities
  Jorgrun (Vaults:1)
  5 liches
  20 Orb Guardians (Zot:5)
  A deep elf master archer (Elf:3)
  3 deep elf blademasters (Elf:3)
  3 quicksilver dragons
  23 acid blobs
  5 death cobs
  Polyphemus (Shoals:2)
  A sphinx (Vaults:4)
  Frances (Shoals:1)
  Kirke (Lair:5)
  An ancient champion (Vaults:3)
  10 shadow dragons
  6 tengu reavers
  9 storm dragons
  Donald (Shoals:2)
  Ilsuiw (Shoals:4)
  5 fire giants
  10 azure jellies
  7 draconian monks
  5 frost giants
  3 draconian scorchers
  Louise (Depths:2)
  4 imperial myrmidons (Desolation)
  A draconian knight (Zot:4)
  Aizul (Spider:1)
  9 deep elf sorcerers
  2 ghost moths
  2 vault wardens
  6 emperor scorpions
  6 deep elf elementalists (Elf:3)
  A juggernaut zombie (Depths:5)
  15 ironheart preservers
  8 draconian shifters
  A caustic shrike skeleton (Depths:2)
  5 draconian annihilators
  5 draconian stormcallers
  3 spriggan defenders (Depths:2)
  19 very ugly things
  A juggernaut skeleton (Depths:2)
  4 deep elf demonologists (Elf:3)
  15 stone giants
  4 vampire knights
  7 green draconians
  5 entropy weavers
  5 black draconians
  Azrael (Spider:2)
  6 deep elf annihilators
  12 purple draconians
  5 spark wasps
  A halazid warlock (Desolation)
  6 yellow draconians
  9 deep elf death magi
  The ghost of SleepCap the Fencer, a journeyman MiFi of Okawaru (Orc:2)
  10 red draconians
  15 fire dragons
  5 white draconians
  5 merfolk javelineers
  4 death oozes
  4 blizzard demons
  3 crystal guardians (Desolation)
  12 ettins
  9 merfolk impalers
  7 deep elf high priests (Elf:3)
  2 jiangshi (Depths:2)
  8 vault guards (D:14)
  14 yaktaur captains
  6 ragged hierophants (Desolation)
  11 rakshasas
  13 great orbs of eyes
  10 ice dragons
  12 ogre magi
  A hell beast (Depths:1)
  9 servants of whispers (Desolation)
  7 hydras
  13 centaur warriors
  5 merfolk avatars
  4 catoblepae
  4 spriggan air magi
  5 peacekeepers (Desolation)
  A death knight (Depths:5)
  3 merfolk aquamancers
  37 dancing weapons
  5 satyrs
  33 two-headed ogres
  3 alligator snapping turtles (Shoals:3)
  7 deep troll earth magi
  5 death yaks
  2 vampire magi
  13 deep troll shamans
  A tengu warrior (D:14)
  Nergalle (D:10)
  4 orc high priests (Orc:2)
  30 deep elf knights
  Sonja (D:10)
  3 spriggan berserkers
  A sun demon (Depths:3)
  2 soul eaters
  8 iron trolls
  2 shadow wraiths
  A sixfirhy (Depths:4)
  4 glowing orange brains
  24 skeletal warriors
  An unseen horror (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  An unseen horror (Depths:5)
  7 small abominations
  29 deep trolls
  An infernal demonspawn (Depths:1)
  A storm dragon skeleton (Depths:2)
  20 sea snakes
  2 gelid demonspawn (Depths:1)
  4 golden dragon skeletons
  4 flayed ghosts
  2 shadow dragon zombies (Depths:5)
  A wizard (Vaults:2)
  23 deep elf archers
  20 ironbrand convokers
  A tengu zombie (Vaults:4)
  78 deep elf magi
  4 necromancers
  An iron dragon zombie (Depths:5)
  5 harpies
  A harpy (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  6 shining eyes
  11 orb spiders
  An orb spider (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  Pikel (D:5)
  6 orc sorcerers
  16 wolf spiders
  30 ugly things
  A manticore (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  A sphinx zombie (Vaults:1)
  An oklob plant (Lair:6)
  9 fauns
  A tengu skeleton (Vaults:4)
  20 orc knights
  15 manticores
  2 sphinx skeletons (Depths:2)
  8 cyclopes
  2 guardian serpents (Desolation)
  26 moths of wrath
  6 merfolk sirens
  An iron dragon skeleton (Depths:2)
  5 water nymphs
  3 stone giant skeletons (Depths:2)
  6 black mambas
  5 fire giant skeletons (Depths:2)
  A rust devil (Depths:1)
  4 eyes of devastation
  26 spiny frogs
  2 torpor snails
  3 ice statues (IceCv)
  17 vault sentinels
  5 spriggan skeletons (Depths:2)
  A black mamba (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  2 human skeletons
  4 gargoyles
  An orange demon (Depths:4)
  A rime drake (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  3 rime drakes
  5 freezing wraiths
  10 komodo dragons
  13 ice devils
  3 efreet
  34 yaktaurs
  4 tengu conjurers
  9 demonic crawlers
  3 yaktaurs (shapeshifter)
  12 trolls
  19 merfolk
  A golden dragon simulacrum (IceCv)
  20 jumping spiders
  52 saltlings (Desolation)
  9 hornets
  6 wind drakes
  Prince Ribbit (D:5)
  25 blink frogs
  A blink frog (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  A harpy skeleton (D:14)
  5 tyrant leeches (Lair:6)
  11 hippogriffs
  An ettin zombie (Vaults:1)
  8 snapping turtles
  85 slime creatures
  11 dream sheep
  A dire elephant simulacrum (IceCv)
  3 air elementals
  64 redbacks
  10 flying skulls (Depths:2)
  An ettin skeleton (Depths:2)
  A shadow (D:14)
  4 spriggans
  A tarantella (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  A centaur simulacrum (D:15)
  26 tarantellas
  4 wraiths
  3 wyverns
  37 yaks
  6 fire elementals
  A human (shapeshifter) (Depths:1)
  18 water elementals
  Eustachio (D:8)
  A golden eye (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  6 humans (Lair:5)
  A hog (Lair:5)
  3 basilisks
  8 chaos spawn
  8 golden eyes
  A steam dragon (Lair:3)
  7 vampire mosquitoes
  A yaktaur simulacrum (Vaults:3)
  2 harpy simulacra (IceCv)
  5 wargs
  3 acid dragons
  An iron troll simulacrum (IceCv)
  10 water moccasins
  4 hydra simulacra (IceCv)
  4 floating eyes
  9 porcupines
  2 hell hounds (Spider:2)
  A black bear (D:6)
  7 eyes of draining
  4 ice beasts
  44 orc warriors
  6 sky beasts
  An eye of draining (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  An ettin simulacrum (IceCv)
  4 slaves
  3 large abominations (Depths:5)
  26 centaurs
  A tengu (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  An ogre (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  A necrophage (D:9)
  7 boggarts
  32 ogres
  12 wolves
  18 crocodiles
  2 human zombies (Vaults:1)
  5 big kobolds
  Blork the orc (D:5)
  30 bullfrogs
  A bullfrog (shapeshifter) (Depths:5)
  2 gnoll sergeants
  An ogre simulacrum (Vaults:1)
  3 earth elementals
  5 scorpions
  A wyvern skeleton (D:7)
  2 wyvern zombies
  14 killer bees
  9 howler monkeys
  7 electric eels
  18 wights
  11 crimson imps
  11 jellies
  3 bullfrog zombies
  3 quasits
  2 centaur zombies
  33 orc priests
  A bullfrog skeleton (D:8)
  4 centaur skeletons
  11 hounds
  2 iron imps
  42 orc wizards
  Crazy Yiuf (D:6)
  2 iguanas
  6 hell rats (Lair:2)
  9 worker ants
  An ogre zombie (D:6)
  3 hound skeletons
  2 worker ant zombies
  2 howler monkey skeletons
  9 gnolls
  10 adders
  An orc zombie (D:6)
  4 white imps
  3 ufetubi
  17 oozes
  An adder zombie (D:5)
  A worm (D:3)
  2 dart slugs
  4 leopard geckos
  105 orcs
  5 giant cockroaches
  3 goblins (D:1)
  12 hobgoblins
  11 jackals
  A quokka (D:4)
  A ball python (D:2)
  6 bats
  2 frilled lizards
  A giant cockroach zombie (D:5)
  A jackal zombie (D:5)
  39 kobolds
  2 rats
  2 bushes (Lair:6)
  2 crawling corpses (Depths:5)
  A fungus (Lair:2)
  11 plants
2471 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A curse toe (Zot:2)
  An electric golem (Zot:5)
  An Orb Guardian (Zot:5)
  A tentacled monstrosity (Zot:1)
  A death cob (Zot:5)
  An acid blob (Slime:4)
  A tengu reaver (Depths:4)
  2 deep elf sorcerers
  2 draconian knights
  A fire giant (Depths:4)
  A deep elf elementalist (Elf:3)
  A draconian shifter (Zot:4)
  A draconian stormcaller (Depths:5)
  A draconian annihilator (Zot:2)
  A stone giant (Vaults:3)
  A deep elf demonologist (Elf:3)
  A red draconian (Zot:4)
  2 yellow draconians (Zot:2)
  2 black draconians
  A merfolk impaler (Shoals:3)
  A fire dragon (Depths:1)
  A servant of whispers (Desolation)
  A vampire mage (Depths:4)
  A deep troll shaman (Depths:4)
  3 two-headed ogres
  2 deep elf knights (Elf:2)
  A skeletal warrior (Depths:5)
  An iron troll (Depths:3)
  A deep elf archer (Elf:3)
  A glowing orange brain (Depths:3)
  An ugly thing (Vaults:4)
  5 deep elf magi
  2 moths of wrath
  A cyclops (D:15)
  A guardian serpent (shapeshifter) (Depths:4)
  A stone giant skeleton (Depths:2)
  A spiny frog (Lair:5)
  An orange demon (Depths:3)
  2 yaktaurs
  A tengu conjurer (Depths:4)
  A merfolk (Shoals:2)
  A red devil (Depths:3)
  2 saltlings (Desolation)
  A blink frog (Lair:6)
  3 slime creatures
  A snapping turtle (Shoals:2)
  A dream sheep (Shoals:4)
  A hippogriff (Lair:6)
  A tarantella (Spider:2)
  A chaos spawn (Depths:5)
  A vampire mosquito (Lair:6)
  A hell hound (Spider:2)
  A water moccasin (Lair:6)
  An orc warrior (Vaults:4)
  2 ogres
  A scorpion (D:10)
  An iron imp (Depths:3)
  A shadow imp (Depths:3)
  2 white imps (Depths:3)
  3 orcs
  A rat (shapeshifter) (Depths:5)
  A bush (D:6)
  10 fungi
  3 pillars of salt (Vaults:4)
  85 plants
180 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 2651 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Berder the Vampire Earth Elementalist began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 13/13 MP: 3/3
   412 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 19/19 MP: 5/5
  1142 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/24 MP: 6/6
  1477 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Stone Arrow
  2086 | D:3      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
  2096 | D:3      | Noticed JohnnyTrout's ghost (amateur DsAK)
  2109 | D:3      | Learned a level 2 spell: Passwall
  2160 | D:3      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  2295 | D:3      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  2496 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 21/30 MP: 1/7
  3108 | D:4      | Noticed a bullfrog
  3125 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Conjurations
  3164 | D:4      | Killed a bullfrog
  3164 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Earth Magic
  3164 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 31/35 MP: 4/9
  3565 | D:4      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  3571 | D:4      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  3574 | D:4      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  3595 | D:4      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  3916 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3946 | D:5      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 41/41 MP: 7/10
  4182 | D:5      | Noticed a slave
  4182 | D:5      | Noticed a slave
  4182 | D:5      | Noticed a slave
  4182 | D:5      | Noticed a slave
  4231 | D:5      | Killed a slave
  4698 | D:5      | Noticed Blork the orc
  4714 | D:5      | Killed Blork the orc
  4714 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/46 MP: 2/13
  4810 | D:5      | Noticed Pikel
  4854 | D:5      | Learned a level 5 spell: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction
  5411 | D:5      | Found Aweoffae's General Store.
  5421 | D:5      | Bought a scroll of fear for 38 gold pieces
  5421 | D:5      | Bought a potion of brilliance for 44 gold pieces
  5442 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
  5453 | D:5      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  5459 | D:5      | Killed Prince Ribbit
  5605 | D:5      | Found Weudaci's Book Shoppe.
  5680 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/52 MP: 12/15
  6272 | D:5      | Killed Pikel
  6272 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  6466 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  6490 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  6727 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Ru the Awakened
  6946 | D:6      | Identified Suixt's Papyrus of Torrid Sinister Secrets
  6958 | D:6      | Learned a level 5 spell: Bolt of Magma
  7070 | D:6      | Found a runed door.
  7273 | D:6      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  7278 | D:6      | Got a bone hand axe
  7323 | D:6      | Identified the +5 hand axe "Ocruloodgh" {chop, rF+ Str+2} (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  7392 | D:6      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  7622 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 37/57 MP: 6/17
  7875 | D:6      | Found a transporter.
  7935 | D:6      | Found a transporter.
  8517 | D:6      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  8519 | D:6      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  8665 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  8808 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Fire Magic
  8898 | D:7      | Gained mutation: You are hated by all. [Ru sacrifice]
  8898 | D:7      | Reached * piety under Ru
 10100 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 63/68 MP: 8/19
 10340 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 10661 | D:8      | Found the +0 sword of Power
 10779 | D:8      | Noticed Eustachio
 10796 | D:8      | Killed Eustachio
 11230 | D:8      | Got a bloodstained mace
 11238 | D:8      | Identified the cursed +0 mace of the Blessed Realm {flame, Str+6} (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)
 11371 | D:9      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 11379 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 11400 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 11400 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Earth Magic
 11897 | D:9      | Learned a level 4 spell: Petrify
 12006 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 12543 | D:9      | Gained mutation: You cannot study or use magical devices. [Ru sacrifice]
 12543 | D:9      | Reached ** piety under Ru
 12543 | D:9      | Reached *** piety under Ru
 12674 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 12674 | D:10     | Noticed Nergalle
 12937 | D:10     | Noticed Sonja
 12942 | D:10     | Killed Sonja
 12942 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 78/78 MP: 7/22
 13527 | D:10     | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
 14003 | D:10     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 14137 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 14306 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 14543 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 14827 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
 15514 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic
 15681 | Lair:2   | Gained mutation: You are missing a hand. [Ru sacrifice]
 15681 | Lair:2   | Reached **** piety under Ru
 15681 | Lair:2   | Reached ***** piety under Ru
 16959 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 88/88 MP: 17/24
 18457 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 18458 | Lair:3   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 18826 | Lair:3   | Noticed a death yak
 18849 | Lair:3   | Killed a death yak
 18849 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging
 19686 | Lair:3   | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 19880 | Lair:4   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 20309 | Lair:4   | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 20309 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging
 20838 | Lair:4   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 21001 | Lair:4   | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 21025 | Lair:4   | Killed a six-headed hydra
 21162 | Lair:4   | Got a wavering lead ring
 21169 | Lair:4   | Identified the ring of Suspected Treachery {Slay+3 Stlth-} (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)
 21647 | D:10     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 21864 | D:10     | Killed Nergalle
 21924 | D:10     | Reached XP level 13. HP: 96/96 MP: 1/26
 22350 | D:11     | Got a shimmering mace
 22374 | D:11     | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 22517 | D:11     | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 23600 | D:12     | You fall through a shaft for 3 floors!
 23600 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 23643 | D:14     | Found Tust's Weapon Shoppe.
 23737 | D:14     | Found Mut Damaexo's Weapon Shoppe.
 24822 | D:12     | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging
 24831 | D:12     | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 25224 | D:12     | Found Ethush's Antique Armour Boutique.
 25232 | D:12     | Bought an ominously black robe for 188 gold pieces
 25242 | D:12     | Identified the +2 robe of Indemnity {Dex+2} (You bought it in a shop on level 12 of the Dungeon)
 26314 | D:14     | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging
 26716 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 26736 | D:14     | Gained mutation: You are dopey. (Int -2) [Ru sacrifice]
 26736 | D:14     | Reached ****** piety under Ru
 26741 | D:14     | Noticed a fire dragon
 26770 | D:14     | Killed a fire dragon
 27108 | D:14     | Reached XP level 14. HP: 106/106 MP: 17/28
 28463 | D:14     | Found Imaob's Magic Scroll Emporium.
 28466 | D:14     | Bought 2 scrolls of identify for 68 gold pieces
 28466 | D:14     | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 28477 | D:14     | Got an ichor-stained demon whip
 28478 | D:14     | Identified the +1 demon whip "Fagyuf" {vamp, rC+} (You acquired it on level 14 of the Dungeon)
 28489 | D:14     | Found Jutyuklon's Antique Armour Boutique.
 28496 | D:14     | Bought a pair of embroidered gloves for 217 gold pieces
 28506 | D:14     | Bought a shimmering helmet for 275 gold pieces
 28516 | D:14     | Identified the +2 helmet of Creativity {MR- Str+8 Dex-2 Stlth+} (You bought it in a shop on level 14 of the Dungeon)
 28669 | D:14     | Upgraded the game from 0.22-a0-303-g4a852b3 to 0.22-a0-305-gd21a89c
 29199 | D:15     | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging
 29372 | D:15     | Got a translucent spear
 29374 | D:15     | Identified the +6 spear of Makhleb's Delight {flame, rC+ MR+ Str+3 Int+3} (You found it on level 15 of the Dungeon)
 29548 | D:15     | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
 30309 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 30697 | D:15     | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
 30817 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 30973 | Orc:1    | Found Utiaquej's Antique Weapon Shop.
 31244 | Orc:1    | You fall through a shaft!
 31244 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 31253 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging
 31835 | Orc:2    | Found Keoqoz's Magic Scroll Boutique.
 31835 | Orc:2    | Found Aleteh's Armour Shop.
 31836 | Orc:2    | Found Rappuwo's Distillery.
 31841 | Orc:2    | Found Egoteb's General Store.
 31993 | Orc:1    | Found a transporter.
 32053 | Orc:1    | Found the +7 longbow "Piercer" {penet, EV-2}
 32480 | Orc:1    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 32481 | Orc:1    | Noticed a stone giant
 33093 | Orc:1    | Killed a stone giant
 33449 | Orc:1    | Reached XP level 15. HP: 115/115 MP: 14/30
 33938 | Orc:1    | Found a transporter.
 33951 | Orc:1    | Got a vibrating ivory ring
 33953 | Orc:1    | Identified the ring of Wetitis {rC+ AC+5 Str+3 Int-4 SInv} (You found it on level 1 of the Orcish Mines)
 33957 | Orc:1    | Got a scorched wooden ring
 33960 | Orc:1    | Identified the cursed ring "Repopp" {+Blink rN+ AC-2 Str+2 Dex-4} (You found it on level 1 of the Orcish Mines)
 34116 | Orc:2    | Bought 2 potions of might for 104 gold pieces
 34116 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of might for 52 gold pieces
 34116 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of might for 52 gold pieces
 34116 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of magic for 104 gold pieces
 34302 | D:14     | Bought the +8 whip "Snakebite" {curare, rPois} for 813 gold pieces
 34302 | D:14     | Found the +8 whip "Snakebite" {curare, rPois}
 34516 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
 34752 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Maces & Flails
 34864 | Spider:1 | Noticed Aizul
 34872 | Spider:1 | Killed Aizul
 35359 | Spider:2 | Found a frozen archway.
 35563 | IceCv    | Entered an ice cave
 36122 | IceCv    | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails
 36707 | IceCv    | Got faintly glowing ice dragon scales
 36799 | IceCv    | Identified the cursed +0 ice dragon scales of Intercession {+Fly rF- rC++ rN+} (You found it in an ice cave)
 37557 | Spider:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Spider Nest
 37557 | Spider:4 | Noticed Bai Suzhen
 39587 | Lair:5   | Noticed Kirke
 39592 | Lair:5   | Killed Kirke
 40600 | Spider:4 | Reached XP level 16. HP: 114/122 MP: 31/31
 41158 | Spider:3 | Killed Bai Suzhen
 41158 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails
 42198 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 42198 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 45224 | Lair:6   | Learned a level 6 spell: Iron Shot
 45234 | Lair:6   | Learned a level 6 spell: Statue Form
 45647 | Spider:4 | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
 46072 | Spider:4 | Got a gossamer rune of Zot
 46284 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
 46305 | Shoals:1 | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations
 46780 | Shoals:1 | Noticed Frances
 46960 | Shoals:1 | Killed Frances
 47569 | Shoals:2 | Noticed Polyphemus
 47589 | Shoals:2 | Killed Polyphemus
 47730 | Shoals:2 | Noticed Donald
 47734 | Shoals:2 | Reached XP level 17. HP: 127/127 MP: 21/32
 47745 | Shoals:2 | Killed Donald
 47799 | Shoals:2 | Got a brightly glowing robe
 47800 | Shoals:2 | Identified the cursed +0 robe of Classification {Dex+6} (You found it on level 2 of the Shoals)
 48040 | Shoals:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Transmutations
 48603 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 48603 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 48603 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy
 49699 | Spider:2 | Noticed Azrael
 49728 | Spider:2 | Killed Azrael
 50941 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 51303 | Shoals:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Shoals
 51868 | Shoals:4 | Noticed Ilsuiw
 51903 | Shoals:4 | Killed Ilsuiw
 52122 | Shoals:4 | Got a heavily runed leather armour
 52124 | Shoals:4 | Identified the cursed +1 leather armour "Xahohe" {-Cast rPois Int+8 Dex-2} (You found it on level 4 of the Shoals)
 52274 | Shoals:4 | Got a barnacled rune of Zot
 52319 | Shoals:4 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 136/136 MP: 33/33
 52387 | Shoals:4 | Reached skill level 11 in Dodging
 52579 | Shoals:4 | Identified the Reference Book on Ice and Heat
 52989 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 53557 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 12 in Dodging
 53776 | Vaults:1 | Noticed Jorgrun
 53793 | Vaults:1 | Killed Jorgrun
 54045 | Vaults:1 | Found Tikiv's General Store.
 54128 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 13 in Dodging
 55309 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 14 in Dodging
 55313 | Vaults:2 | Noticed Nikola
 55315 | Vaults:2 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 132/149 MP: 9/34
 55325 | Vaults:2 | Killed Nikola
 56831 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
 56901 | Vaults:3 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 57612 | Vaults:3 | Found Dyutaps's General Store.
 58228 | Vaults:4 | Found a ruined gateway.
 58305 | Desolati | Entered the Desolation of Salt
 58568 | Desolati | Reached XP level 20. HP: 141/160 MP: 19/35
 58615 | Desolati | Reached skill level 16 in Dodging
 58876 | Desolati | Reached skill level 15 in Earth Magic
 59075 | Desolati | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 59089 | Desolati | Found the cursed +13 scythe of Curses {drain, *Curse}
 59103 | Desolati | Got a wavering bronze amulet
 59106 | Desolati | Identified the amulet of Mehugof {RegenMP +Blink MR++ Stlth+} (You found it in the Desolation of Salt)
 59112 | Desolati | Got a vibrating iron ring
 59113 | Desolati | Identified the cursed ring of Happiness {*Slow MP+9 AC-2 Int+8 Slay+2} (You found it in the Desolation of Salt)
 59119 | Desolati | Identified the Almanac of the Blaze and the Mountains
 59284 | Desolati | Identified the Volume of Ashen Talismans
 59301 | Desolati | Identified The Advanced Guide to Theurgy
 61894 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 17 in Dodging
 62241 | Vaults:4 | Got a warped leather armour
 62243 | Vaults:4 | Identified the +0 leather armour "Taigugg" {rElec rC- rN++} (You found it on level 4 of the Vaults)
 62522 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 62568 | Depths:1 | Noticed Saint Roka
 62981 | Depths:1 | Killed Saint Roka
 63004 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to Hell.
 63126 | Depths:1 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 170/170 MP: 36/36
 63169 | Depths:1 | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium.
 63557 | Depths:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
 63581 | Depths:1 | Identified the Almanac of Feathery Stones
 63588 | Depths:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness
 63766 | Depths:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations
 63781 | Depths:2 | Paralysed by a floating eye for 2 turns
 63792 | Depths:2 | Found a one-way gate to the infinite horrors of the Abyss.
 63794 | Depths:2 | Noticed Louise
 63818 | Depths:2 | Killed Louise
 63902 | Depths:2 | Noticed the Enchantress
 64069 | Depths:2 | Killed the Enchantress
 64302 | Depths:2 | Reached skill level 18 in Dodging
 64947 | Depths:2 | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
 65193 | Depths:2 | Found the +9 staff of Wucad Mu {channel}
 65609 | Depths:3 | Found Bessaa's Antique Armour Boutique.
 65611 | Depths:3 | Found Umaogrit's Food Shop.
 65754 | Depths:3 | Found Yptoode's Magic Scroll Boutique.
 65756 | Depths:3 | Found Vaoh's Antique Weapon Shop.
 65782 | Depths:3 | Bought a pair of embroidered gloves for 375 gold pieces
 65974 | Depths:3 | Noticed Mara
 66096 | Depths:3 | Reached XP level 22. HP: 170/180 MP: 7/38
 66109 | Depths:3 | Noticed Berder's illusion
 66128 | Depths:3 | Killed Mara
 66769 | Depths:4 | Reached skill level 19 in Dodging
 66826 | Depths:4 | Noticed a golden dragon
 66843 | Depths:4 | Killed a golden dragon
 67370 | Depths:4 | Got a scorched ring mail
 67371 | Depths:4 | Identified the cursed +0 ring mail of Ycliryxe {rC+ MR+ Dex+5} (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)
 68045 | Depths:4 | Noticed a golden dragon
 68082 | Depths:4 | Killed a golden dragon
 68408 | Depths:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Depths
 68473 | Depths:5 | Noticed a golden dragon
 68500 | Depths:5 | Killed a golden dragon
 68960 | Depths:5 | Reached skill level 20 in Dodging
 69002 | Depths:5 | Reached XP level 23. HP: 156/190 MP: 29/40
 69358 | Depths:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
 69423 | Depths:5 | Identified the Almanac of Evil Magic
 69527 | Depths:5 | Found a gateway to a ziggurat.
 69591 | Depths:5 | Noticed an ancient lich
 69606 | Depths:5 | Killed an ancient lich
 69849 | Depths:5 | Found a gate to the Realm of Zot.
 70005 | Depths:5 | Upgraded the game from 0.22-a0-305-gd21a89c to 0.22-a0-322-g60b3cfd
 70375 | Slime:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Pits of Slime
 70874 | Slime:3  | Paralysed by a floating eye for 2 turns
 71327 | Slime:4  | Reached skill level 10 in Stealth
 71384 | Slime:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Pits of Slime
 71600 | Slime:5  | Gained mutation: You are frail. (-10% HP) [a shining eye]
 71604 | Slime:5  | Noticed the Royal Jelly
 71887 | Slime:5  | Reached skill level 21 in Dodging
 72246 | Slime:5  | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 72267 | Slime:5  | Got a slimy rune of Zot
 72547 | Slime:5  | Gained mutation: You possess an exceptional clarity of mind. [a shining eye]
 73258 | Orc:2    | Noticed SleepCap's ghost (journeyman MiFi)
 73303 | Orc:2    | Killed SleepCap's ghost
 73459 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 74049 | Slime:5  | Lost mutation: You possess an exceptional clarity of mind. [potion of mutation]
 74049 | Slime:5  | Lost mutation: You are frail. (-10% HP) [potion of mutation]
 74049 | Slime:5  | Gained mutation: Your flesh is cold resistant. (rC+) [potion of mutation]
 74049 | Slime:5  | Gained mutation: You are somewhat resistant to further mutation. [potion of mutation]
 74049 | Slime:5  | Gained mutation: You are robust. (+10% HP) [potion of mutation]
 74059 | Slime:5  | Reached XP level 24. HP: 190/221 MP: 23/41
 74179 | Slime:5  | Killed the Royal Jelly
 74824 | Elf:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls
 74835 | Elf:1    | Gained mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [a neqoxec]
 75256 | Elf:1    | Found Niguwih's Food Shoppe.
 75978 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 75978 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 75978 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 75978 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 75978 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 76273 | Elf:2    | Found Neram's Armour Emporium.
 76848 | Elf:2    | Lost mutation: Your flesh is cold resistant. (rC+) [potion of mutation]
 76848 | Elf:2    | Lost mutation: You are somewhat resistant to further mutation. [potion of mutation]
 76848 | Elf:2    | Lost mutation: You are robust. (+10% HP) [potion of mutation]
 76848 | Elf:2    | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [potion of mutation]
 76849 | Elf:2    | Lost mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [potion of mutation]
 76849 | Elf:2    | Lost mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [potion of mutation]
 76849 | Elf:2    | Gained mutation: You expend magic power (3 MP) to strengthen your wands. [potion of mutation]
 76849 | Elf:2    | Gained mutation: You occasionally shout uncontrollably at your foes. [potion of mutation]
 76849 | Elf:2    | Gained mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [potion of mutation]
 76849 | Elf:2    | Gained mutation: You are somewhat resistant to further mutation. [potion of mutation]
 76938 | Elf:2    | Reached skill level 15 in Stealth
 77016 | Elf:3    | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls
 77578 | Elf:3    | Reached skill level 22 in Dodging
 78156 | Elf:3    | Reached XP level 25. HP: 209/209 MP: 11/41
 78189 | Elf:3    | Got a sparkling tin ring
 78451 | Elf:3    | Identified the Handbook of Creative Conjuration
 78459 | Elf:3    | Got a slimy spear
 78460 | Elf:3    | Identified the +5 spear of Xaotuv {pain, *Noise +Blink Str+2 Dex+4} (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 78463 | Elf:3    | Identified the ring of Dowiskun {rN+ Str+3 Int+2 Dex-3} (You took it off a deep elf blademaster on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 78477 | Elf:3    | Identified the Compendium of Sinister Secrets and Translocation
 79093 | Zot:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Realm of Zot
 79204 | Depths:3 | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 57 gold pieces
 79329 | D:14     | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 51 gold pieces
 79329 | D:14     | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 51 gold pieces
 79329 | D:14     | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 51 gold pieces
 79407 | Vaults:1 | Bought the +11 hand axe of Wondrous Power {flame, rF++ rC++ MR-} for 1767 gold pieces
 79622 | D:5      | Bought 2 potions of heal wounds for 110 gold pieces
 82165 | Zot:3    | Got a pitted bronze ring
 82168 | Zot:3    | Identified the ring "Ruodwuud" {rElec rF- rC+ AC+4 Dex+2} (You took it off a draconian annihilator on level 3 of the Realm of Zot)
 82237 | Zot:4    | Reached skill level 23 in Dodging
 82967 | Zot:5    | Entered Level 5 of the Realm of Zot
 83315 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 83384 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 83482 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 83525 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 83671 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 83686 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 83686 | Zot:5    | Reached XP level 26. HP: 222/222 MP: 13/41
 83792 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 83811 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 83968 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 84104 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 84121 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 84124 | Zot:5    | Gained mutation: Your spells are a little easier to cast, but a little less powerful. [an orb of fire]
 84136 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 84136 | Zot:5    | Reached skill level 24 in Dodging
 84154 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 84174 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 84325 | Zot:5    | Lost mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [potion of mutation]
 84325 | Zot:5    | Lost mutation: Your spells are a little easier to cast, but a little less powerful. [potion of mutation]
 84325 | Zot:5    | Gained mutation: You passively map a small area around you. [potion of mutation]
 84327 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 84350 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 84735 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 85864 | Zot:2    | Reached XP level 27. HP: 231/231 MP: 38/41
 86028 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 86037 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 86078 | Zot:5    | Gained mutation: Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body. [an orb of fire]
 86087 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 86306 | Zot:5    | Got the Orb of Zot
 86542 | Depths:3 | Noticed Qulycliy the pandemonium lord
 86608 | D:13     | Noticed Fohaed the pandemonium lord
 86809 | D:$      | Escaped with the Orb!
             

Vault maps used:
D:1:      ncdulo_lavacross, chequers_big_river, hex_large
D:3:      lemuel_coloured_pillars_altar, marbit_many_paths, grunt_qazlal_clouds,
          first_ration
D:4:      grunt_temple_overflow_diamond
D:5:      serial_shops, shop, shop, uniq_prince_ribbit1, uniq_blork_the_orc,
          uniq_pikel
D:6:      gammafunk_cloud_chamber, okawaru_ov_weapons_minmay,
          fedhas_bush_and_centaur_altar, minmay_temple_entry_trees,
          lemuel_flamethrower_2, uniq_crazy_yiuf_cottage
D:7:      lemuel_slime
D:8:      grunt_ogre_cave, sword_in_stone
D:9:      elyvilon_altar_1, erik_lair_island
D:10:     orc_0_dummy, basic_altar, uniq_nergalle, uniq_sonja
D:11:     cheibrodos_orc_bank, nicolae_trove_entry_crossroad
D:12:     serial_shops, shop
D:14:     erik_vaults_2, minmay_stone_trees_small, serial_shops, shop,
          shop_coins, nicolae_shop_trees, shop
D:15:     hangedman_depths_entry_civil_slaughter, lemuel_blue_sif_altar,
          basic_altar
Temple:   nicolae_temple_figure_eight
Lair:2:   beast_lair_carwin_3
Lair:3:   minmay_shoals_entry_centaurs, nzn_random_ring
Lair:4:   cheibrodos_lair_river_kwai, spider_nest_entry_funnel_web
Lair:5:   grunt_megastairs_3, uniq_kirke
Lair:6:   minmay_lair_end_frog_pond, slime_dummy, minivault_27,
          minmay_lair_oklob_bushes, nicolae_quartered_pool_super, ldierk_geyser,
          lemuel_old_faithful
Shoals:1: uniq_frances
Shoals:2: uniq_donald, uniq_polyphemus
Shoals:3: nzn_motion_control, nicolae_shoals_siren_and_animal_friends
Shoals:4: shoals_end_grunt_garden, shoals_ilsuiw_alternative
Spider:1: uniq_aizul
Spider:2: portal_ice_cave_entry_pillars_four,
          hangedman_spider_tarantella_strand, uniq_azrael
Spider:3: nicolae_spider_cling_halls
Spider:4: grunt_spider_rune_circles, uniq_bai_suzhen
Slime:1:  basic_altar, nicolae_slime_phagocytosis
Orc:1:    gammafunk_beogh_shrine, serial_shops, shop
Orc:2:    st_orc_mages
Elf:1:    serial_glass, glass_columns_b, glass_columns_a, serial_shops, shop,
          evilmike_minifort, hex_medium
Elf:2:    serial_shops, shop_fountains, serial_glass, glass_columns_b,
          glass_columns_a, uniq_louise
Elf:3:    minmay_elf_hall_not_hex
Vaults:1: vaults_dpeg_cross, hangedman_vaults_variations,
          ontoclasm_vaults_gateway, v_misc_3, hangedman_vaults_river_flow,
          st_check, v_misc_14, nicolae_vaults_big_ls,
          vaults_room_grunt_arrival_ludios, ontoclasm_vaults_decontamination,
          vaults_room_semicircle, vaults_dpeg_ring, serial_shops, shop,
          uniq_jorgrun
Vaults:2: nicolae_vaults_diagonal_hallway_9, nicolae_vaults_network_barrier,
          vaults_mumra_minichess_inversion, v_misc_1,
          nicolae_vaults_ninety_degrees, vaults_room_ringed_pool,
          nicolae_vaults_big_angled_halls, nicolae_vaults_hallways_thing,
          ontoclasm_vaults_gallery, v_pattern_2, nicolae_vaults_little_ls,
          serial_glass, uniq_nikola
Vaults:3: minmay_crypt_entry_simple_box, nicolae_vaults_disjoint_gnomons,
          hangedman_vaults_capsules, ontoclasm_vaults_claustrophobia,
          vaults_mumra_hex, ontoclasm_vaults_loading_screen, v_misc_24,
          hangedman_vaults_pinch, dpeg_vaults_monster_box,
          nicolae_vaults_yaktaur_gun_rack, grunt_vaults_focal, serial_shops,
          shop
Vaults:4: hangedman_vaults_slice, nicolae_vaults_an_arrangement,
          vaults_room_hallway, v_rooms_3, nicolae_vaults_network_s,
          v_alt_pattern_6, hangedman_vaults_locks, v_alt_pattern_2,
          nicolae_vaults_circle_grid_b, v_alt_pattern_4, v_alt_pattern_1,
          portal_desolation_entry_garden
Depths:1: grunt_pan_entry_in_and_out, hell_entry, minivault_22,
          serial_bayou_lagoon_a, minmay_librarian, uniq_saint_roka
Depths:2: minmay_skeleton_keep, hell_entry, serial_sigils,
          serial_sigils_hangedman_writhe, serial_sigils_hangedman_gnaw,
          serial_sigils_hangedman_shear, serial_sigils_hangedman_stare,
          lemuel_statue_altar, nicolae_abyss_entry_one_way_or_another,
          uniq_enchantress
Depths:3: hangedman_surveillance_ring, grunt_pan_entry_sceptre,
          grunt_hell_entry_dis_grunt, minmay_shoptagon,
          infiniplex_staircase_zigzag_4, serial_bayou_shore_b, uniq_mara
Depths:4: hangedman_cross_stitches, hell_entry, abyss_entry,
          serial_sigils_hangedman_shear, rand_demon_pan_entry_1,
          kennysheep_kite_vault, infiniplex_staircase_pillars_3a
Depths:5: grunt_zot_entry_alcove, enter_ziggurat_b, nicolae_two_hexagons,
          special_room, minmay_room_of_horrors, hell_entry, spider_trap
Zot:1:    grunt_megastairs_1
Zot:2:    grunt_ministairs_7
IceCv:    ice_cave_tombish

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 |
---------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Earth Magic    |     4     5     6  7  9    10 11    12 13             14 16                      | 16.2
Conjurations   |           1  2           3  4  5  6  7  8                                        |  8.7
Spellcasting   |              3  4     5  6  7  8  9 10 11                   12 13 14             | 14.3
Evocations     |                    2  3  4  0                                                    |  0.0
Fighting       |                          2  4  6  7  8  9       10 13 14 15 16 18 19 20 21    22 | 22.1
Fire Magic     |                          2  3  5  6                                              |  6.7
Dodging        |                                   4  7  9       10 14 15 17 18 20 21 22 23 24    | 24.8
Maces & Flails |                                            9 12                                  | 12.0
Transmutations |                                               8 11                               | 11.6
Charms         |                                                  4                               |  4.8
Necromancy     |                                                  4                               |  4.8
Translocations |                                                              4                   |  4.1
Stealth        |                                                                   11 16 19 22 23 | 23.1

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |    46 |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    46
       Bite              |     3 |       |    18 |     6 |    30 |   207 |   336 |   325 |   193 ||  1118
       Trident           |       |       |    64 |     2 |       |       |       |       |       ||    66
       Hand axe          |       |       |    66 |    86 |    51 |       |       |       |       ||   203
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |    33 |       |       |       |       ||    33
       Spear             |       |       |       |       |    27 |       |       |       |       ||    27
       Whip              |       |       |       |       |   200 |  1825 |  1180 |       |       ||  3205
       Demon whip        |       |       |       |       |       |       |  1473 |  2595 |  1363 ||  5431
 Fire: Hunting sling     |    27 |    78 |     3 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||   108
       Shortbow          |       |       |    35 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    35
Throw: Stone             |     9 |       |     1 |       |       |       |     6 |     8 |    25 ||    49
 Cast: Sandblast         |    29 |    47 |   104 |   196 |   333 |    36 |       |       |       ||   745
       Stone Arrow       |       |     5 |    29 |    29 |    23 |       |       |     1 |       ||    87
       Lee's Rapid Decon |       |       |    16 |   123 |   111 |    14 |    91 |    51 |    23 ||   429
       Petrify           |       |       |       |    18 |     7 |     7 |    12 |     4 |       ||    48
       Passwall          |       |       |       |     2 |     3 |       |       |     2 |     9 ||    16
       Bolt of Magma     |       |       |       |    18 |   242 |   124 |    14 |    21 |    24 ||   443
       Statue Form       |       |       |       |       |       |    79 |   103 |    88 |    49 ||   319
       Regeneration      |       |       |       |       |       |    31 |    62 |   124 |    61 ||   278
       Iron Shot         |       |       |       |       |       |     6 |     8 |    59 |    92 ||   165
       Blink             |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     6 ||     6
Invok: Sacrifice Love    |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Sacrifice Artific |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Sacrifice a Hand  |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Power Leap        |       |       |       |     1 |     8 |    10 |     2 |     5 |     5 ||    31
       Draw Out Power    |       |       |       |     1 |     2 |     1 |     3 |     1 |     1 ||     9
       Reject Sacrifices |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Apocalypse        |       |       |       |       |     4 |     5 |     4 |     5 |     5 ||    23
       Sacrifice Purity  |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
 Abil: End Transformatio |       |     3 |     2 |    15 |     7 |     7 |     1 |     8 |     8 ||    51
       Bat Form          |       |     3 |     2 |    15 |     7 |     5 |       |     8 |     8 ||    48
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     3 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     3
  Use: Scroll            |     7 |     2 |     4 |     6 |    19 |     4 |    16 |    14 |    19 ||    91
       Potion            |     5 |     8 |    22 |    63 |   115 |   129 |   122 |   130 |    95 ||   689
 Stab: Sleeping          |     3 |       |       |       |       |     7 |    10 |    19 |     4 ||    43
       Distracted        |       |       |     1 |     1 |     1 |    10 |    11 |    15 |    12 ||    51
       Invisible         |       |       |       |     1 |     1 |    15 |    23 |    17 |    43 ||   100
       Petrified         |       |       |       |     2 |     5 |       |    15 |       |       ||    22
       Paralysed         |       |       |       |       |    10 |    20 |    17 |    17 |     5 ||    69
       Confused          |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Armor: Robe              |    14 |     8 |    51 |    54 |   121 |    65 |    23 |    38 |    17 ||   391
       Skin              |       |       |       |     6 |       |   537 |   801 |   944 |   392 ||  2680
Dodge: Dodged            |    27 |    15 |   131 |   165 |   497 |  1462 |  2351 |  2911 |  1420 ||  8979

Table legend:
 A = Spawn XP
 B = Non-spawn XP
 C = Spawn XP percentage of total XP
 D = Spawn monster count
 E = Non-spawn monster count
 F = Spawn count percentage of total count
 G = Total turns spent on level

                 A         B        C        D         E        F        G   
            +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------
      Total |       0 | 1529739 |   0.0 |       0 |    2496 |   0.0 |   86809
            +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------
        D:1 |       0 |      36 |   0.0 |       0 |      16 |   0.0 |    1068
        D:2 |       0 |      28 |   0.0 |       0 |       9 |   0.0 |     902
        D:3 |       0 |      37 |   0.0 |       0 |      11 |   0.0 |    1181
        D:4 |       0 |     264 |   0.0 |       0 |       8 |   0.0 |    1056
        D:5 |       0 |    1763 |   0.0 |       0 |      36 |   0.0 |    2369
        D:6 |       0 |     920 |   0.0 |       0 |      21 |   0.0 |    2015
        D:7 |       0 |    2069 |   0.0 |       0 |      50 |   0.0 |    1428
        D:8 |       0 |    1708 |   0.0 |       0 |      28 |   0.0 |    1362
        D:9 |       0 |    3475 |   0.0 |       0 |      27 |   0.0 |    2502
       D:10 |       0 |    6018 |   0.0 |       0 |      50 |   0.0 |    1888
       D:11 |       0 |    3031 |   0.0 |       0 |      38 |   0.0 |    1217
       D:12 |       0 |    4532 |   0.0 |       0 |      32 |   0.0 |    1051
       D:13 |       0 |    6837 |   0.0 |       0 |      37 |   0.0 |    2544
       D:14 |       0 |   21803 |   0.0 |       0 |      66 |   0.0 |    2502
       D:15 |       0 |   33381 |   0.0 |       0 |      78 |   0.0 |    2436
     Lair:1 |       0 |    4457 |   0.0 |       0 |      25 |   0.0 |    1983
     Lair:2 |       0 |    5888 |   0.0 |       0 |      27 |   0.0 |    2280
     Lair:3 |       0 |    6834 |   0.0 |       0 |      28 |   0.0 |    2303
     Lair:4 |       0 |    7489 |   0.0 |       0 |      24 |   0.0 |    2347
     Lair:5 |       0 |   15437 |   0.0 |       0 |      49 |   0.0 |    2715
     Lair:6 |       0 |   13413 |   0.0 |       0 |      53 |   0.0 |    1110
   Shoals:1 |       0 |    9337 |   0.0 |       0 |      16 |   0.0 |    1272
   Shoals:2 |       0 |   23609 |   0.0 |       0 |      40 |   0.0 |     996
   Shoals:3 |       0 |   23128 |   0.0 |       0 |      43 |   0.0 |    1335
   Shoals:4 |       0 |   33386 |   0.0 |       0 |      57 |   0.0 |    1122
   Spider:1 |       0 |    6028 |   0.0 |       0 |      11 |   0.0 |    1120
   Spider:2 |       0 |   15201 |   0.0 |       0 |      53 |   0.0 |    1455
   Spider:3 |       0 |   21873 |   0.0 |       0 |      39 |   0.0 |    4030
   Spider:4 |       0 |   22464 |   0.0 |       0 |      61 |   0.0 |    1847
    Slime:1 |       0 |   25526 |   0.0 |       0 |      29 |   0.0 |     473
    Slime:2 |       0 |   21842 |   0.0 |       0 |      44 |   0.0 |     531
    Slime:3 |       0 |    3845 |   0.0 |       0 |       3 |   0.0 |     170
    Slime:4 |       0 |   18416 |   0.0 |       0 |      27 |   0.0 |    1000
    Slime:5 |       0 |   40057 |   0.0 |       0 |      21 |   0.0 |     769
      Orc:1 |       0 |   11024 |   0.0 |       0 |      53 |   0.0 |    2572
      Orc:2 |       0 |   10126 |   0.0 |       0 |      80 |   0.0 |    1812
      Elf:1 |       0 |   33889 |   0.0 |       0 |      54 |   0.0 |    1042
      Elf:2 |       0 |   40847 |   0.0 |       0 |      61 |   0.0 |    1181
      Elf:3 |       0 |   73135 |   0.0 |       0 |      72 |   0.0 |    1742
   Vaults:1 |       0 |   60689 |   0.0 |       0 |     105 |   0.0 |    2497
   Vaults:2 |       0 |   60791 |   0.0 |       0 |      92 |   0.0 |    1506
   Vaults:3 |       0 |   44012 |   0.0 |       0 |      79 |   0.0 |    1472
   Vaults:4 |       0 |   47037 |   0.0 |       0 |      71 |   0.0 |    1392
   Depths:1 |       0 |   17763 |   0.0 |       0 |      23 |   0.0 |     918
   Depths:2 |       0 |   72839 |   0.0 |       0 |     104 |   0.0 |    1787
   Depths:3 |       0 |   54664 |   0.0 |       0 |      69 |   0.0 |    1684
   Depths:4 |       0 |   80464 |   0.0 |       0 |      82 |   0.0 |    2005
   Depths:5 |       0 |  100796 |   0.0 |       0 |     101 |   0.0 |    1998
      Zot:1 |       0 |   46626 |   0.0 |       0 |      29 |   0.0 |    1468
      Zot:2 |       0 |   45282 |   0.0 |       0 |      32 |   0.0 |     659
      Zot:3 |       0 |   40304 |   0.0 |       0 |      27 |   0.0 |     784
      Zot:4 |       0 |   42526 |   0.0 |       0 |      33 |   0.0 |    1016
      Zot:5 |       0 |  186138 |   0.0 |       0 |      58 |   0.0 |    2011
      IceCv |       0 |    9434 |   0.0 |       0 |      27 |   0.0 |    1251
 Desolation |       0 |   47221 |   0.0 |       0 |      87 |   0.0 |    1371
            +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------


Again, using a combination of Fire and Earth magic, relying in this case mostly on Bolt of Magma and Iron Shot. I could show you my GrEE win, but that was from a long time ago and uses some obsolete spells. It's the same picture, though: use Fire to deal mass damage, Earth for single target damage.

I suspect Duvessa's advice may be based off of speedrunning (winning in the lowest possible turn count, with great risk of dying early). I don't know if Duvessa actually does speedrun. Maybe he plays offline or uses a different account. Or maybe he has just talked to those who speedrun. Speedrunners are on a very low XP budget and therefore spells that require no XP to cast, and can help you escape from things, are more important to the speedrunner death-courting playstyle. Summon Butterflies, Animate Skeleton, Apportation may fall into that category. Also, only training Earth magic may be more suited to speedrunners, because they can't afford to spend the XP to get another school, and Earth Magic alone is technically enough to win, though not comfortably.

My advice is based off of playing for win rate or streaks, which is different. There is more XP available, so you can afford to spend a little XP on spells that are substantially more useful, such as Fire Magic and Regeneration.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8666

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 18:51

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

My advice is always based off playing to win without any other goals, unless someone specifically asks for advice on speedrunning or whatever.

edit: I don't link my character dumps or ttyrecs as advice because I always play DCSS with challenge conditions/conducts, such as not using allies, or not using active god abilities, or not using certain items/gods/etc. So my character dumps do not show optimally built characters.
Last edited by duvessa on Wednesday, 22nd August 2018, 02:18, edited 1 time in total.

Zot Zealot

Posts: 950

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 18:55

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Well, I did not interpret the question for just damage spells. Besides the advice for LRD being very useful all game is very good.

You are absolutely right that DMSL cannot be casted without at least some charms/air trainig, not even with wizardry. But I read this part only that you do not need a very good success rate, which is true, you can switch to robe and wizardry items, it works, and it helps a lot. It is just annoying without macroing the whole process somehow.

I think that butterflies is not a tavern meme, and it is not only useful early on. It is very good all game. It especially works well with LRD, since it has smite targetting.

Blink is a spell that I often memorize, but only cast if I make some stupid mistake. Sometimes you can do some tricks with it, that's true.

I am personally lazy to cast regeneration outside of Vaults$, Hells, and the orb run. I found it not useful enough in other places. It does converse some piety, true, but that is not very useful for Vehumet. It is not a bad spell to learn tough, you may need it.

I would not train fire magic on an earth elementalist, unless I am going for fire storm late, late in the game for some reason. I have no idea why it would be good. LRD can damage more than one monsters, and it seemed better to me than bolt of magma, for instance.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4341

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 19:15

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Berder wrote:
duvessa wrote:Wow, made it a whole 7 posts before changing the subject to a completely different person's character. It's a new record!

What the heck are you complaining about. It's an illustration to show him how a blaster character can be skilled, at just around the point in the game he is having trouble with. I'd like to see you provide a dump of your own character following your own advice, which is imo weird. He asks how he can deal more damage with his spells, and you tell him to learn Apportation, Summon Butterflies, and DMSL without training it? How does that help him whatsoever?


I thanked your message when it contained just this.

I'd also like to forestall another pointless criticism by saying that, by this point in the game, this FoWz has about the same spells and skills a GrEE might have, so the fact it is a Wz does not matter. I am recommending he take the earth and fire spells that this character has, and train skills in a similar manner.


I really disagree with this part which you added later. FoWz is not even close to GrEE.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Tuesday, 21st August 2018, 20:03

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

sanka wrote:Well, I did not interpret the question for just damage spells. Besides the advice for LRD being very useful all game is very good.

You are absolutely right that DMSL cannot be casted without at least some charms/air trainig, not even with wizardry. But I read this part only that you do not need a very good success rate, which is true, you can switch to robe and wizardry items, it works, and it helps a lot. It is just annoying without macroing the whole process somehow.

I think that butterflies is not a tavern meme, and it is not only useful early on. It is very good all game. It especially works well with LRD, since it has smite targetting.

First of all butterflies are only going to block the enemy from getting to you if you are in a thin corridor situation. In an open area the butterflies don't do anything. If you're a blaster mage with a bolt spell in a thin corridor, it's easier to just kill the enemies - it only takes two or three turns to kill all the enemies in the corridor. Casting butterflies not only costs you a turn, it blocks your bolt spell.

If you need the butterflies to escape, there are many more reliable options after the early game: you can cast blink, you can read a scroll of blinking, you can tele, you can read fog. You can just walk away. If you really need monsters to block for you so you can escape, you can evoke a bag of spiders or read a scroll of summoning. If you are playing safely you will have enough of these escape tools that you'd never get down to the last-resort butterflies.

Blink is a spell that I often memorize, but only cast if I make some stupid mistake. Sometimes you can do some tricks with it, that's true.

Sure - or if you get netted or constricted, or if you need to get some space between you and a monster, or if a guardian serpent has surrounded you.

I am personally lazy to cast regeneration outside of Vaults$, Hells, and the orb run. I found it not useful enough in other places. It does converse some piety, true, but that is not very useful for Vehumet. It is not a bad spell to learn tough, you may need it.

It's an excellent spell, moreso for a brute than a blaster because they can just cast it in every combat. On a blaster, in a long fight you still should have regen on - it will give you 20-30 HP you would not otherwise have. Additionally, if you get abyssed or shafted into a dangerous level and need to rest quickly when wandering monsters could discover you at any time, regen gives you a huge survival advantage. I just put it on macro 2 so it's no trouble to cast.

I would not train fire magic on an earth elementalist, unless I am going for fire storm late, late in the game for some reason. I have no idea why it would be good. LRD can damage more than one monsters, and it seemed better to me than bolt of magma, for instance.

LRD is certainly not bad, but it has several disadvantages. LRD only works if the enemies are all next to the same wall tile. This is frequently not the case, enemies may approach you in an open area (plenty of those in shoals, spider, swamp, depths). LRD does poor damage against things with AC such as vault guards in plate. It's also loud as heck, so if you are being cautious in a new level you don't want to cast LRD at first. For example, when first entering any branch you should be wary about casting LRD so things stay asleep, because you have only one stairs back up. Finally, LRD can only be enhanced by a staff of earth or items with archmagi.

Bolt spells can often hit more enemies at a time than LRD can, in addition to piercing armor better. Fire spells are easier to enhance using a ring of fire, staff of fire, staff of conjuration, or archmagi items, so you can get better spellpower on fire spells than LRD (enough to kill almost all enemies in 1-3 hits).

Bolt of magma is not the best bolt spell - bolt of fire is, due to the longer range. With Vehumet it's LOS range. Being able to pick off enemies at edge of LOS that aren't near a wall is a significant advantage of bolt of fire. Bolt of magma is a stepping stone to bolt of fire, or a fallback if you don't find bolt of fire.

Fire spells also obscure LOS in shoals and swamp, due to making steam. This is a substantial advantage that not only protects you from ranged attackers instantly, but also deals extra damage, letting you often kill enemies in a single shot. Shoals is terribly dangerous for most characters, but for characters with Fireball or Bolt of Fire, I will often do Shoals first and find it easiest due to this steam effect.

duvessa wrote:My advice is always based off playing to win without any other goals, unless someone specifically asks for advice on speedrunning or whatever.

I'm not saying that you were intentionally giving him speedrunning advice, but that your views on crawl may be influenced more by speedrunning lore than playing to win.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

arc

Temple Termagant

Posts: 8

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 01:50

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 06:17

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Someone suggested I post a dump:

So I started this char a bit before posting and the advice here I think helped a lot. It's the best I've done with a spell caster. I started paying attention more to enemy armor and a closer eye on spell damage and LRD did me quite well though S branches, though some enemies took 3+ casts. Iron shot really helped too. General advice on this char is welcome!


  Code:
 
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.22.0-27-ga576289 (webtiles) character file.

341481 MrBlue0 the Metallomancer (level 22, -1/141 HPs)
             Began as a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist on Aug 21, 2018.
             Was the Champion of Vehumet.
             Killed from afar by a battlesphere (3 damage)
             ... created by a tengu reaver
             ... on level 1 of the Depths on Aug 22, 2018.
             The game lasted 06:16:02 (65785 turns).

MrBlue0 the Metallomancer (GrEE)                   Turns: 65785, Time: 06:16:03

Health: -1/141     AC: 35    Str: 16    XL:     22   Next: 1%
Magic:  18/49      EV: 15    Int: 29    God:    Vehumet [******]
Gold:   2283       SH:  0    Dex: 10    Spells: 4/49 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis +   k - +2 flail "Enolel Enu" {crush, rPois Int+4}
rCold    + . .     Gourm    +   T - +2 shield {reflect}
rNeg     + . .     Faith    .   w - +3 ring mail {rF+}
rPois    ∞         Spirit   .   p - +2 helmet {SInv}
rElec    +         Reflect  +   t - scarf {rC+ rF+}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   r - +2 pair of gloves
MR       +....                  D - +2 pair of boots
Stlth    ..........             y - amulet of the gourmand
HPRegen  0.33/turn              O - ring of Yneocky {+Inv rF+ MP+9}
MPRegen  0.31/turn              e - ring "Iliy" {Wiz Int+3}

@: confused, flying, very slightly contaminated, studying Charms, invisible
A: big wings, negative energy resistance 1, electricity resistance, unbreathing,
petrification resistance, rot immunity, AC +16
}: 2/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled
a: Stop Flying, Renounce Religion


You were on level 1 of the Depths.
You worshipped Vehumet.
Vehumet was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 9 branches of the dungeon, and saw 39 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 2 times.
You also visited: Sewer and Ossuary.

You collected 4096 gold pieces.
You spent 1813 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +7 mace "Duiv" {pain, rElec rF+ Int+3}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   In the hands of one skilled in necromantic magic, it inflicts extra damage
   on living creatures.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
   It insulates you from electricity.
 b - the +7 long sword "Uruism" {venom, MR- Int+7}
   (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It poisons the flesh of those it strikes.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+7).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 k - the +2 flail "Enolel Enu" (weapon) {crush, rPois Int+4}
   (You took it off a deep elf mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It protects you from poison.
Missiles
 Q - 673 stones (quivered)
Armour
 p - a +2 helmet of see invisible (worn)
 r - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 t - a scarf of resistance (worn)
 w - a +3 ring mail of fire resistance (worn)
 D - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 T - a +2 shield of reflection (worn)
Jewellery
 e - the ring "Iliy" (right hand) {Wiz Int+3}
   (You took it off a deep elf sorcerer on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of wizardry]
   
   It improves your spell success rate.
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
 l - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion
 m - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 y - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 N - a +5 ring of intelligence
 O - the ring of Yneocky (left hand) {+Inv rF+ MP+9}
   (You took it off a deep elf mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of protection from fire]
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
   It lets you turn invisible.
Wands
 i - a wand of scattershot (16)
 x - a wand of clouds (7)
 F - a wand of polymorph (47)
 J - a wand of digging (12)
 S - a wand of disintegration (11)
 U - a wand of iceblast (31)
 W - a wand of flame (68)
Scrolls
 c - 5 scrolls of enchant weapon
 f - a scroll of enchant armour
 g - 23 scrolls of remove curse
 h - 7 scrolls of magic mapping
 o - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 q - a scroll of holy word
 v - 3 scrolls of fear
 E - 4 scrolls of amnesia
 G - 5 scrolls of blinking
 I - 2 scrolls of silence
 K - 6 scrolls of identify
 L - a scroll of brand weapon
 M - 4 scrolls of fog
Potions
 j - 10 potions of curing
 n - 3 potions of ambrosia
 z - a potion of might
 A - 3 potions of brilliance
 B - 3 potions of invisibility
 C - 5 potions of resistance
 H - 5 potions of agility
 P - 4 potions of cancellation
 Y - 6 potions of haste
Books
 u - a manual of Charms
Miscellaneous
 R - 2 boxes of beasts
Comestibles
 d - 55 rations


   Skills:
 + Level 15.8 Fighting
 + Level 11.7 Maces & Flails
 - Level 3.5 Armour
 + Level 12.6 Dodging
 - Level 2.1 Stealth
 - Level 8.5 Shields
 + Level 14.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 17.3 Conjurations
 - Level 5.0 Charms
 - Level 1.0 Necromancy
 - Level 3.0 Translocations
 - Level 0.7 Transmutations
 - Level 5.0 Fire Magic
 * Level 21.3 Earth Magic


You had 4 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           ######       0%          1    None
b - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       0%          3    None
c - Animate Skeleton      Necr           N/A          2%          1    None
d - Petrify               Tmut/Erth      ######..     1%          4    None
e - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           #######...   1%          5    None
f - Bolt of Magma         Conj/Fire/Erth #######...   1%          5    None
g - Orb of Destruction    Conj           #######...   1%          7    #####..
h - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #######...   1%          6    ####...
i - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
j - Shatter               Erth           #######...   17%         9    #######
k - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ####....     2%          2    None

Your spell library contained the following spells:

 Spells                   Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
 Lehudib's Crystal Spear  Conj/Erth      #######...   3%          8    #######
 Fire Storm               Conj/Fire      ######....   99%         9    #######
 Magic Dart               Conj           ####         0%          1    None
 Flame Tongue             Conj/Fire      #####        1%          1    None
 Sting                    Conj/Pois      ####         1%          1    None
 Passwall                 Tmut/Erth      ######..     1%          2    None
 Throw Flame              Conj/Fire      ######       1%          2    None
 Conjure Flame            Conj/Fire      ######..     1%          3    None
 Dazzling Spray           Conj/Hex       ######       1%          3    None
 Ignite Poison            Fire/Tmut/Pois ####....     1%          3    None
 Inner Flame              Hex/Fire       ####....     1%          3    None
 Mephitic Cloud           Conj/Pois/Air  ######..     1%          3    None
 Force Lance              Conj/Tloc      ######..     1%          4    None
 Leda's Liquefaction      Hex/Erth       ######....   1%          4    None
 Sticky Flame             Conj/Fire      ######..     1%          4    None
 Pain                     Necr           ####         2%          1    None
 Beastly Appendage        Tmut           ###...       3%          1    None
 Gell's Gravitas          Tloc           #####.....   3%          3    None
 Regeneration             Chrm/Necr      #####.....   3%          3    None
 Corona                   Hex            ###....      4%          1    None
 Summon Small Mammal      Summ           ###.         4%          1    None
 Corpse Rot               Necr           N/A          4%          2    None
 Sticks to Snakes         Tmut           ###.....     4%          2    None
 Call Imp                 Summ           ###.....     6%          2    None
 Ensorcelled Hibernation  Hex/Ice        ###...       6%          2    None
 Poisonous Vapours        Pois/Air       ###...       6%          2    None
 Slow                     Hex            ###.....     6%          2    None
 Portal Projectile        Hex/Tloc       ####..       7%          3    None
 Recall                   Summ/Tloc      N/A          7%          3    None
 Vampiric Draining        Necr           ####......   9%          3    None
 Spider Form              Tmut/Pois      ###.......   11%         3    None
 Call Canine Familiar     Summ           ###.....     12%         3    None
 Confuse                  Hex            ###.....     12%         3    None
 Summon Guardian Golem    Hex/Summ       ###.....     12%         3    None
 Tukima's Dance           Hex            ###.....     12%         3    None
 Olgreb's Toxic Radiance  Pois           ###.....     12%         4    None
 Passage of Golubria      Tloc           N/A          12%         4    None
 Animate Dead             Necr           N/A          26%         4    None
 Ice Form                 Ice/Tmut       ###.....     32%         4    None
 Cause Fear               Hex            ###.......   38%         4    None
 Summon Ice Beast         Ice/Summ       ###.....     38%         4    None
 Summon Lightning Spire   Summ/Air       ###.....     38%         4    None
 Borgnjor's Vile Clutch   Necr/Erth      ######....   1%          5    None
 Fireball                 Conj/Fire      ######....   1%          5    None
 Irradiate                Conj/Tmut      ######....   1%          5    None
 Venom Bolt               Conj/Pois      ######....   1%          5    None
 Bolt of Fire             Conj/Fire      ######....   1%          6    ####...
 Summon Forest            Summ/Tloc      ####......   50%         5    None
 Blade Hands              Tmut           ###.......   61%         5    None
 Alistair's Intoxication  Tmut/Pois      ###.....     65%         5    None
 Dispersal                Tloc           #####.....   86%         6    ####...
 Death Channel            Necr           ####......   98%         6    ####...
 Darkness                 Hex            ###.......   99%         6    ####...
 Hydra Form               Tmut           ###.......   99%         6    ####...
 Invisibility             Hex            ###.....     99%         6    ####...
 Simulacrum               Ice/Necr       ###.......   99%         6    ####...
 Dragon Form              Tmut           ###.......   100%        7    #####..
 Summon Hydra             Summ           ###.......   100%        7    #####..
 Controlled Blink         Tloc           N/A          100%        8    #######
 Disjunction              Tloc           #####.....   100%        8    #######
 Dragon's Call            Summ           ###.......   100%        9    #######
 Sublimation of Blood     Necr           Unusable     N/A         2    N/A


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6            Lair (6/6) D:10
 Shoals (4/4) Lair:4        Snake (4/4) Lair:2        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (2/2) D:12            Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (3/5) D:14
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:2     Depths (1/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Jiyva

Shops:
D:10 [   D:11 [   D:12 =   Orc:2 ((:[(**   Elf:2 (   Snake:2 ([:([
Snake:4 (![   Vaults:2 (   Vaults:3 !%

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1

Annotations:
D:5 2 transporters
Elf:2 3 runed doors
Elf:3 3 runed doors, Uckyqebi's ghost, adept GrFi
Vaults:1 1 runed door, Radikus's ghost, adept MiBe
Vaults:2 Mennas!, Mennas


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
Your stone body is resilient. (AC +16)
You are immune to poison.
Your large and strong wings let you fly indefinitely.
You resist negative energy. (rN+)
You are resistant to electric shocks. (rElec)
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.
You are immune to rotting.


Message History

Okay, then.
Blink to where?
Press: ? - help, Dir - move target cursor, p - fire dragon
As you read the scroll of blinking, it crumbles to dust.
The fire dragon breathes flames at you.
Unknown command.
Okay, then.
You are confused.
You feel invigorated.
The tengu reaver points at you and mumbles some strange words.
The fireball explodes! The fireball engulfs you! You resist.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The battlesphere fires! The barrage of energy hits you!
You hear a screech!
The yaktaur wields an arbalest. The yaktaur shoots a bolt.
The tengu reaver gestures at you while chanting.
The fireball explodes! The fireball engulfs you! You resist.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The battlesphere fires! The barrage of energy hits you!
You die...

 #...#........∩.#
 #...#..........#  c
 ...#........#.[# ..
 #..............#...
  #.#.c.<†...(c(....
###.#*Q)(c)c.c......
#.......†)..........
#.(....D.C..........
###@#...........####
  #...#..#....C.#
  #........#.##.#
 #......#..... .#
 #....###.......#
 #....#
 ##...#
  #...#


You could see a fire giant, a fire dragon, a tengu reaver, 2 yaktaurs and a
battlesphere.

Vanquished Creatures
  Mara (Vaults:2)
  Nikola (Vaults:1)
  4 deep elf blademasters (Elf:3)
  A deep elf master archer (Elf:3)
  2 tentacled starspawn (Abyss:2)
  Gastronok (Lair:3)
  Frances (D:13)
  Kirke (Shoals:3)
  An azure jelly (shapeshifter) (Elf:3)
  8 nagarajas (Snake:4)
  4 vault wardens
  6 deep elf sorcerers
  A frost giant (Depths:1)
  The ghost of riowarren the Carver, a journeyman CeFi of Wu Jian (Snake:1)
  6 ironheart preservers
  5 deep elf elementalists (Elf:3)
  2 stone giants
  Nessos (D:15)
  2 vampire knights
  3 deep elf demonologists (Elf:3)
  4 deep elf annihilators (Elf:3)
  5 merfolk javelineers (Shoals:4)
  6 merfolk impalers
  A deep elf death mage (Elf:3)
  A fire dragon (D:15)
  4 yaktaur captains
  5 deep elf high priests
  Harold (Lair:2)
  7 vault guards
  20 naga warriors
  3 ice dragons
  7 hydras
  2 rakshasas
  5 ogre magi
  4 merfolk avatars
  5 centaur warriors
  3 death knights
  4 merfolk aquamancers
  Erica (D:11)
  3 tengu warriors
  22 two-headed ogres
  17 dancing weapons
  A satyr (Shoals:1)
  6 anacondas
  2 death yaks (Lair:5)
  A deep troll earth mage (Depths:1)
  2 shock serpents
  Urug (Lair:1)
  16 naga sharpshooters
  A soul eater (Abyss:2)
  Sonja (Lair:3)
  A glowing orange brain (Vaults:3)
  11 deep elf knights
  Nergalle (Lair:3)
  A sixfirhy (Abyss:2)
  2 salamander mystics
  5 skeletal warriors
  2 unseen horrors
  An entropy weaver zombie (Vaults:1)
  11 sea snakes
  A shadow demon (Abyss:2)
  3 deep trolls (Vaults:1)
  18 deep elf archers
  3 phantasmal warriors (Vaults:2)
  6 orc knights
  3 wizards
  6 ironbrand convokers
  5 naga ritualists
  24 harpies
  2 wolf spider zombies
  A necromancer (Vaults:1)
  5 mana vipers
  17 ugly things
  2 orc sorcerers
  10 fauns
  9 cyclopes
  4 elephants
  59 deep elf magi
  12 manticores
  13 salamanders
  44 black mambas
  2 water nymphs
  8 merfolk sirens
  A rust devil (Abyss:2)
  8 vault sentinels
  24 naga magi
  3 guardian serpents (shapeshifter)
  2 guardian serpents (Snake:3)
  A torpor snail (Lair:6)
  A gargoyle (D:14)
  2 large abominations (Abyss:2)
  13 spiny frogs
  10 yaktaurs
  An efreet (D:15)
  7 komodo dragons
  A kobold demonologist (D:15)
  A rime drake (Lair:6)
  2 freezing wraiths (Vaults:2)
  A tengu conjurer (D:14)
  25 merfolk
  A jumping spider (shapeshifter) (D:14)
  An ancient zyme (Abyss:2)
  A polar bear (Lair:6)
  10 trolls
  2 wind drakes (shapeshifter)
  6 slime creatures
  2 tyrant leeches (Lair:6)
  24 blink frogs
  5 hornets
  4 dream sheep (Shoals:1)
  10 snapping turtles
  A raiju (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  A raiju (Abyss:2)
  A human simulacrum (Vaults:1)
  6 hippogriffs
  An ettin zombie (Abyss:2)
  A stone giant simulacrum (Vaults:1)
  5 redbacks (Elf:2)
  A flying skull (Abyss:2)
  2 ynoxinuls (Abyss:2)
  13 spriggans
  A shadow (Vaults:2)
  14 water elementals
  2 wraiths
  6 wyverns
  33 yaks
  A hog (Shoals:3)
  3 basilisks
  4 fire elementals
  A hungry ghost (D:12)
  A golden eye (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  2 steam dragons
  4 vampire mosquitoes (Lair:6)
  56 nagas
  2 chaos spawn (Abyss:2)
  A warg (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  A two-headed ogre zombie (D:12)
  2 wargs
  2 acid dragons
  A soldier ant (D:13)
  5 porcupines
  23 water moccasins
  37 orc warriors
  2 black bears (D:8)
  A necrophage (D:10)
  6 sky beasts
  Purgy (Sewer)
  2 eyes of draining
  4 ice beasts (D:9)
  2 small abominations (Abyss:2)
  An ettin simulacrum (Vaults:1)
  3 boggarts (Lair:4)
  26 wolves
  5 phantoms
  21 ogres
  21 centaurs
  16 crocodiles
  A yaktaur zombie (Vaults:1)
  18 bullfrogs
  An earth elemental (Elf:3)
  A glowing shapeshifter simulacrum (Vaults:2)
  3 wyvern skeletons
  A hornet simulacrum (D:14)
  3 scorpions
  2 troll zombies (D:12)
  2 howler monkeys
  17 wights
  3 electric eels
  9 crimson imps
  A bullfrog zombie (D:7)
  8 hounds
  3 bullfrog skeletons
  A gnoll shaman (D:6)
  10 jellies
  22 orc wizards
  7 centaur skeletons
  An iron imp (Abyss:2)
  18 orc priests
  7 iguanas
  8 worker ants
  A centaur simulacrum (D:9)
  5 ogre zombies (D:12)
  8 mummies (Ossuary)
  A worker ant zombie (D:10)
  25 adders
  10 gnolls
  3 shadow imps
  A white imp (D:9)
  2 ufetubi
  2 adder skeletons
  3 worms
  2 dart slugs
  8 leopard geckos
  86 orcs
  13 bats
  5 giant cockroaches
  4 goblins
  6 hobgoblins
  8 jackals
  5 quokkas
  2 ball pythons
  A ball python zombie (D:4)
  3 frilled lizards
  5 goblin zombies (D:12)
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:12)
  2 hobgoblin zombies
  9 kobolds
  4 kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  2 orc skeletons (D:12)
  17 orc zombies
  2 quokka skeletons
  A quokka zombie (D:7)
  8 rats
  A fungus (Elf:3)
  2 plants
  A starspawn tentacle (Abyss:2)
1425 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  2 nagarajas
  A frost giant (Shoals:4)
  A deep elf elementalist (Elf:3)
  A ghoul (Vaults:2)
  A merfolk impaler (Shoals:4)
  A fire dragon (D:15)
  A slime creature (Vaults:2)
  A merfolk aquamancer (Shoals:4)
  4 ogre magi
  A merfolk avatar (Shoals:4)
  7 two-headed ogres
  A dancing weapon (Elf:2)
  4 naga sharpshooters
  A deep elf knight (Elf:3)
  A skeletal warrior (D:14)
  2 sea snakes
  2 naga ritualists
  5 mana vipers
  A lindwurm (Lair:6)
  3 harpies (Shoals:1)
  A deep elf mage (Elf:3)
  An ugly thing (Vaults:2)
  4 manticores
  2 fauns (Shoals:1)
  A salamander (Snake:3)
  3 elephants (Lair:4)
  9 black mambas
  A water nymph (Shoals:1)
  2 naga magi (Snake:4)
  A centaur skeleton (D:12)
  A komodo dragon (Lair:1)
  9 spiny frogs
  2 yaktaurs
  2 wind drakes
  5 merfolk
  2 tyrant leeches (Lair:6)
  A hippogriff (Lair:3)
  4 snapping turtles
  A blink frog (Lair:6)
  A redback (Elf:2)
  Sigmund (D:6)
  A water elemental (Shoals:1)
  4 yaks
  2 vampire mosquitoes (Lair:6)
  12 nagas
  5 water moccasins
  A porcupine (Lair:1)
  3 orc warriors (Orc:1)
  13 ogres (Orc:2)
  4 wolves
  A bullfrog (Lair:6)
  A wight (D:6)
  2 electric eels
  3 centaur zombies
  4 orc wizards
  An orc priest (D:13)
  2 iguanas
  A gnoll (D:6)
  An adder (D:8)
  5 orcs
  2 orc zombies (D:12)
  A rat (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  3 fungi
  8 plants
175 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A deep elf master archer (Elf:3)
  A yaktaur captain (Vaults:1)
  A centaur warrior (D:13)
  A deep elf knight (Elf:1)
  2 deep elf archers
  2 yaktaurs
  A merfolk (Shoals:1)
  A human (Shoals:3)
  An orc warrior (Orc:1)
  11 fungi
  64 plants
  3 starspawn tentacles (Abyss:2)
  6 withered plants (Elf:3)
95 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1695 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | MrBlue0 the Gargoyle Earth Elementalist began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 3/3
   224 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Earth Magic
   263 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 1/5
   960 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 15/19 MP: 2/6
  1207 | D:2      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  1238 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Earth Magic
  1238 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 18/24 MP: 1/8
  1471 | D:2      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  1505 | D:2      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 19/28 MP: 5/9
  1676 | D:2      | Reached skill level 6 in Earth Magic
  3106 | D:4      | Learned a level 3 spell: Stone Arrow
  3111 | D:4      | Learned a level 4 spell: Petrify
  3235 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 32/32 MP: 4/11
  3433 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Earth Magic
  3961 | D:4      | Learned a level 1 spell: Animate Skeleton
  4365 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4368 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Conjurations
  4368 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/36 MP: 6/12
  4520 | D:5      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  4588 | D:5      | Found a glowing drain.
  4627 | Sewer    | Entered a sewer
  4699 | Sewer    | Noticed Purgy
  4706 | Sewer    | Killed Purgy
  4797 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  4868 | Ossuary  | Reached skill level 8 in Earth Magic
  5452 | D:5      | Found a transporter.
  5773 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/41 MP: 1/14
  5950 | D:5      | Found a transporter.
  6252 | D:5      | Learned a level 5 spell: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction
  6537 | D:6      | Reached skill level 9 in Earth Magic
  6578 | D:6      | Noticed Sigmund
  6638 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
  6753 | D:6      | Killed Sigmund
  6753 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  6933 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 45/45 MP: 2/16
  7139 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  7145 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  7195 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Vehumet
  7722 | D:7      | Reached skill level 10 in Earth Magic
  7788 | D:7      | Reached * piety under Vehumet
  7788 | D:7      | Offered knowledge of Shock by Vehumet.
  7788 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  8091 | D:7      | Got a twitching tin ring
  8215 | D:7      | Identified the cursed ring of the Circus Animal {rElec Dex-2} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon)
  9059 | D:8      | Offered knowledge of Throw Frost by Vehumet.
  9061 | D:8      | Reached ** piety under Vehumet
  9061 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  9695 | D:8      | Reached skill level 11 in Earth Magic
  9695 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 46/57 MP: 15/18
 10064 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 10092 | D:8      | Offered knowledge of Static Discharge by Vehumet.
 10877 | D:9      | Got a shimmering mace
 10888 | D:9      | Identified the +7 mace "Duiv" {pain, rElec rF+ Int+3} (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
 11016 | D:9      | Reached *** piety under Vehumet
 11016 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 11397 | D:9      | Reached skill level 12 in Earth Magic
 11477 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 11518 | D:10     | Got a slimy long sword
 11519 | D:10     | Identified the +7 long sword "Uruism" {venom, MR- Int+7} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 11557 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 11557 | D:10     | Noticed an elephant
 11754 | D:10     | Killed an elephant
 11757 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 67/67 MP: 6/21
 11890 | D:10     | Noticed a green ugly thing
 11900 | D:10     | Killed a green ugly thing
 11902 | D:10     | Found Taoplixa's Antique Armour Emporium.
 12012 | D:10     | Bought an ancient ring mail for 225 gold pieces
 12024 | D:10     | Identified the +2 ring mail of Broken Taboos {Dex+2} (You bought it in a shop on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 12086 | D:10     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 12091 | D:10     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 12263 | D:10     | Noticed an unseen horror
 12269 | D:10     | Killed an unseen horror
 12269 | D:10     | Offered knowledge of Throw Icicle by Vehumet.
 12269 | D:10     | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
 12488 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 12584 | D:10     | Reached skill level 13 in Earth Magic
 12906 | Lair:1   | Reached **** piety under Vehumet
 13009 | Lair:1   | Noticed Urug
 13024 | Lair:1   | Killed Urug
 13221 | Lair:1   | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
 13287 | Lair:1   | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Magma by Vehumet.
 13294 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 5 spell: Bolt of Magma
 13549 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 75/75 MP: 13/23
 13574 | Lair:1   | Found the +8 whip "Snakebite" {curare, rPois}
 14234 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 14 in Earth Magic
 14555 | Lair:2   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 14947 | Lair:2   | Noticed Harold
 14969 | Lair:2   | Killed Harold
 15199 | Lair:2   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 15204 | Lair:2   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 15782 | Lair:3   | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 16044 | Lair:3   | Reached ***** piety under Vehumet
 16044 | Lair:3   | Offered knowledge of Orb of Destruction by Vehumet.
 16066 | Lair:3   | Learned a level 7 spell: Orb of Destruction
 16411 | Lair:3   | Noticed Nergalle
 16417 | Lair:3   | Killed Nergalle
 16417 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 15 in Earth Magic
 16583 | Lair:3   | Noticed Sonja
 16595 | Lair:3   | Killed Sonja
 16607 | Lair:3   | Noticed Gastronok
 16748 | Lair:3   | Killed Gastronok
 16748 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 16748 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 36/82 MP: 13/26
 18380 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 16 in Earth Magic
 19075 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 19967 | Lair:5   | Got an ancient long sword
 19968 | Lair:5   | Identified the cursed +1 long sword of Xutimuint {drain, +Inv Dex+4 Stlth+} (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)
 20266 | Lair:5   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 20266 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 20551 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 20708 | Lair:6   | Gained mutation: Your large and strong wings let you fly indefinitely. [Gargoyle growth]
 20708 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 88/88 MP: 10/27
 20708 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 1 in Maces & Flails
 20930 | Lair:6   | Offered knowledge of Lightning Bolt by Vehumet.
 21380 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 23472 | D:10     | Bought a glowing buckler for 187 gold pieces
 23506 | D:11     | Noticed Erica
 23516 | D:11     | Killed Erica
 24073 | D:11     | Offered knowledge of Iron Shot by Vehumet.
 24139 | D:11     | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 24194 | D:11     | Found Vifity's Antique Armour Shoppe.
 24207 | D:11     | Bought a smelly scale mail for 288 gold pieces
 24217 | D:11     | Identified the +5 scale mail "Rylamn" {rN+} (You bought it in a shop on level 11 of the Dungeon)
 24420 | D:12     | Reached skill level 1 in Fire Magic
 24590 | D:12     | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations
 24904 | Snake:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit
 25357 | Snake:1  | Reached XP level 15. HP: 96/96 MP: 28/29
 25678 | Snake:1  | Found a runed gate.
 25679 | Snake:1  | Found a runed gate.
 25679 | Snake:1  | Found a runed gate.
 25691 | Snake:1  | Learned a level 6 spell: Iron Shot
 25693 | Snake:1  | Noticed riowarren's ghost (journeyman CeFi)
 25697 | Snake:1  | Killed riowarren's ghost
 25721 | Snake:1  | Got a steaming battleaxe
 25727 | Snake:1  | Identified the cursed +1 battleaxe of the Sage {drain, rPois Str-2 SInv} (You found it on level 1 of the Snake Pit)
 26474 | Snake:2  | Offered knowledge of Freezing Cloud by Vehumet.
 27076 | Snake:2  | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 27321 | Snake:2  | Found Urizyfer's Weapon Shoppe.
 27353 | Snake:2  | Found Sujama's Armour Shoppe.
 27442 | Snake:2  | Found Ziunug's Weapon Emporium.
 27463 | Snake:2  | Found Dudy's Book Shop.
 27728 | Snake:2  | Found Itaothra's Armour Emporium.
 27735 | Snake:2  | Bought a +2 helmet of see invisible for 451 gold pieces
 28184 | Snake:3  | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails
 29295 | Snake:3  | Reached XP level 16. HP: 60/102 MP: 23/30
 29420 | Snake:3  | Noticed a nagaraja
 29431 | Snake:3  | Killed a nagaraja
 29444 | Snake:3  | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Cold by Vehumet.
 30342 | Snake:3  | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic
 30403 | Snake:3  | Got a colourful robe
 30414 | Snake:3  | Identified the +1 robe "Yruntaiw" {rElec} (You took it off a naga on level 3 of the Snake Pit)
 31153 | Snake:4  | Entered Level 4 of the Snake Pit
 31317 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 31902 | Snake:4  | Noticed a nagaraja
 31913 | Snake:4  | Killed a nagaraja
 32713 | Snake:4  | Noticed a nagaraja
 32720 | Snake:4  | Killed a nagaraja
 32983 | Snake:4  | Found Ichochi's Weapon Emporium.
 33181 | Snake:4  | Found Tiwno's Distillery.
 33395 | Snake:4  | Offered knowledge of Spellforged Servitor by Vehumet.
 33875 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 17 in Earth Magic
 33957 | Snake:4  | Noticed a nagaraja
 33977 | Snake:4  | Killed a nagaraja
 33977 | Snake:4  | Reached XP level 17. HP: 108/108 MP: 11/32
 34640 | Snake:4  | Found Nuten's Armour Boutique.
 35720 | Snake:4  | Got a serpentine rune of Zot
 36007 | Lair:2   | Upgraded the game from 0.22.0-25-g7663229 to 0.22.0-27-ga576289
 36089 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
 37975 | Shoals:2 | Got a pair of dazzling gloves
 38104 | Shoals:1 | Identified the cursed +0 pair of gloves "Nithizu" {rCorr Str+3 Int-5} (You found it on level 2 of the Shoals)
 38958 | Shoals:2 | Offered knowledge of Conjure Ball Lightning by Vehumet.
 39503 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 18 in Earth Magic
 39555 | Shoals:3 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 105/115 MP: 23/34
 39583 | Shoals:3 | Got an emerald-studded ring mail
 39600 | Shoals:3 | Identified the +2 ring mail of the Nexus {rElec} (You found it on level 3 of the Shoals)
 39636 | Shoals:3 | Noticed Kirke
 39641 | Shoals:3 | Killed Kirke
 39885 | Shoals:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Shoals
 42349 | Shoals:4 | Reached ****** piety under Vehumet
 42452 | Shoals:4 | Got a spiked chain mail
 42463 | Shoals:4 | Identified the +2 chain mail of Emnet {rF+ Int-5 Slay+4} (You found it on level 4 of the Shoals)
 42487 | Shoals:4 | Got a barnacled rune of Zot
 42529 | Shoals:4 | Reached skill level 15 in Conjurations
 42573 | Shoals:4 | Offered knowledge of Lehudib's Crystal Spear by Vehumet.
 42573 | Shoals:4 | Offered knowledge of Fire Storm by Vehumet.
 42573 | Shoals:4 | Offered knowledge of Shatter by Vehumet.
 42954 | D:12     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 43201 | D:12     | Found Kautsit's Jewellery Shoppe.
 43798 | D:13     | Noticed Frances
 43803 | D:13     | Killed Frances
 45575 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 46778 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 47404 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 47697 | D:15     | Noticed Nessos
 47701 | D:15     | Killed Nessos
 47716 | D:15     | Reached XP level 19. HP: 113/121 MP: 27/35
 48195 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 48213 | Orc:1    | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy
 49241 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 49257 | Orc:2    | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
 49267 | Orc:2    | Found Roezekos's Book Shoppe.
 49279 | Orc:2    | Bought a book of Minor Magic for 240 gold pieces
 49488 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 19 in Earth Magic
 49643 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 49742 | Orc:2    | Found Nookh's Antique Weapon Emporium.
 49925 | Orc:2    | Found Wauxi's Antique Armour Boutique.
 49925 | Orc:2    | Found Ataheot's Antique Weapon Emporium.
 49928 | Orc:2    | Found Deaso's General Store.
 49928 | Orc:2    | Found Coron's Assorted Antiques.
 49948 | Orc:2    | Bought a thick robe for 182 gold pieces
 49949 | Orc:2    | Identified the cursed +0 robe "Huumauf" {rPois rC+ rN+ Str+4} (You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)
 50343 | Orc:2    | Found Yghaumeem's Antique Weapon Boutique.
 50566 | Elf:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls
 51125 | Elf:1    | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
 52902 | Elf:2    | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 52933 | Elf:2    | Found Ucisonwu's Weapon Shop.
 53953 | Elf:2    | Found a runed gate.
 53953 | Elf:2    | Found a runed gate.
 53953 | Elf:2    | Found a runed gate.
 53992 | Elf:3    | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls
 54247 | Elf:3    | Found a runed gate.
 54248 | Elf:3    | Found a runed gate.
 54303 | Elf:3    | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails
 54369 | Elf:3    | Found a runed gate.
 54372 | Elf:3    | Noticed Uckyqebi's ghost (adept GrFi)
 54372 | Elf:3    | Noticed Uckyqebi's ghost (adept GrFi)
 54490 | Elf:3    | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
 54728 | Elf:3    | Reached XP level 20. HP: 106/128 MP: 37/37
 55868 | Elf:3    | Cast into level 3 of the Abyss (a deep elf demonologist)
 55907 | Elf:3    | Escaped the Abyss
 55923 | Elf:3    | Cast into level 2 of the Abyss (a deep elf sorcerer)
 56182 | Abyss:2  | Reached skill level 20 in Earth Magic
 56544 | Abyss:2  | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
 56556 | Elf:3    | Escaped the Abyss
 57119 | Elf:3    | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 57461 | Elf:3    | Got a slimy iron ring
 57579 | Elf:3    | Learned a level 9 spell: Shatter
 58056 | Elf:3    | Got a dazzling flail {crush}
 58058 | Elf:3    | Identified the +2 flail "Enolel Enu" {crush, rPois Int+4} (You took it off a deep elf mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 58443 | Elf:3    | Got a fine wooden ring
 58444 | Elf:3    | Got a polished short sword {pierce}
 58458 | Elf:3    | Identified the cursed +0 short sword of Siycvis {pierce, +Blink rF+} (You took it off a deep elf mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 58503 | Elf:1    | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness
 58609 | D:12     | Identified the ring "Iliy" {Wiz Int+3} (You took it off a deep elf sorcerer on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 58611 | D:12     | Identified the ring of Yneocky {+Inv rF+ MP+9} (You took it off a deep elf mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 58760 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 59057 | D:14     | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 59664 | Vaults:1 | Noticed Nikola
 59677 | Vaults:1 | Killed Nikola
 59677 | Vaults:1 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 134/134 MP: 12/38
 60176 | Vaults:1 | Found a runed door.
 60177 | Vaults:1 | Noticed Radikus's ghost (adept MiBe)
 60888 | D:11     | Bought a pair of runed gloves for 240 gold pieces
 62390 | Vaults:2 | Found Domaczen's Antique Weapon Shoppe.
 62607 | Vaults:2 | Noticed Mara
 62617 | Vaults:2 | Noticed MrBlue0's illusion
 62643 | Vaults:2 | Killed Mara
 63116 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations
 63129 | Vaults:2 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 63306 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
 64151 | Vaults:3 | Found Kirask's Distillery.
 64276 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 21 in Earth Magic
 64837 | Vaults:3 | Found Wutisch's Food Shop.
 64879 | Vaults:3 | Noticed Mennas
 64988 | Vaults:2 | HP: 3/136 [Mennas/sacred scourge of holy wrath (6)]
 65603 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 65772 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to Hell.
 65774 | Depths:1 | Reached XP level 22. HP: 44/141 MP: 4/40
 65780 | Depths:1 | HP: 2/141 [tengu reaver/dire flail of protection (19)]
 65785 | Depths:1 | HP: 2/141 [tengu reaver/fireball (10)]
 65785 | Depths:1 | Killed from afar by a battlesphere

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 |
---------------+----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Earth Magic    |  4     5     6  7  8  9 11 12 13 15 16       17 18    19 20 21 | 21.3
Spellcasting   |           3        4  5     6  7  9    10    11 12    13    14 | 14.0
Conjurations   |                 1  3  5  6           8 10 11 13 14 15 16 17    | 17.3
Dodging        |                    2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9    10    11    12    | 12.6
Fighting       |                          4  7  8 10    11 12 13    14    15    | 15.8
Armour         |                                3                               |  3.5
Maces & Flails |                                         3  5  7  8  9 10    11 | 11.7
Shields        |                                         3  5     6  7     8    |  8.5
Fire Magic     |                                         1  4  5                |  5.0
Necromancy     |                                                        1       |  1.0
Charms         |                                                           2  5 |  5.0
Translocations |                                                              3 |  3.0
Stealth        |                                                                |  2.1
Transmutations |                                                                |  0.7

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |     9 |       |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     9
       Dagger            |    96 |   116 |    79 |       |       |       |       |       ||   291
       Falchion          |       |       |    25 |     4 |       |       |       |       ||    29
       Mace              |       |       |       |    43 |    73 |   156 |    97 |       ||   369
       Flail             |       |       |       |       |       |       |    23 |       ||    23
 Cast: Sandblast         |    15 |    44 |    44 |    34 |    73 |   240 |   261 |     5 ||   716
       Stone Arrow       |       |    26 |   130 |   289 |   453 |   634 |   515 |       ||  2047
       Animate Skeleton  |       |       |    24 |    42 |    80 |   145 |   134 |       ||   425
       Lee's Rapid Decon |       |       |     9 |    33 |   119 |   210 |   218 |       ||   589
       Petrify           |       |       |       |       |     3 |     3 |     3 |       ||     9
       Bolt of Magma     |       |       |       |       |     2 |     4 |     6 |       ||    12
       Iron Shot         |       |       |       |       |    11 |    72 |    96 |       ||   179
       Orb of Destructio |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Shatter           |       |       |       |       |       |       |     6 |     1 ||     7
 Abil: Fly               |       |       |       |       |     1 |     2 |       |       ||     3
       Stop Flying       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       ||     2
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
  Use: Scroll            |     2 |     6 |    13 |    14 |     7 |     8 |    23 |     1 ||    74
       Potion            |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |    18 |     2 ||    21
 Stab: Sleeping          |     3 |     2 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     5
       Distracted        |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     1 |    12 |    30 |    34 |    43 |    63 |    73 |       ||   256
       Ration            |       |       |     2 |       |     2 |     9 |       |       ||    13
Armor: Robe              |    58 |    39 |    72 |     8 |       |       |       |       ||   177
       Ring mail         |       |       |       |    89 |   233 |   452 |   422 |    11 ||  1207
Dodge: Dodged            |    81 |    67 |   126 |   153 |   230 |   479 |   371 |    12 ||  1519
Block: Buckler           |       |       |       |       |    53 |   248 |       |       ||   301
       Reflection        |       |       |       |       |     9 |    52 |    61 |       ||   122
       Shield            |       |       |       |       |       |    74 |   442 |    11 ||   527
Rpst.: Falchion          |       |       |    12 |       |       |       |       |       ||    12

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8666

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 07:24

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

At the time of death, that shield was hurting you more than it was helping you by ruining your Shatter success rate. It didn't even have a useful ego on it.

You had a robe of the Archmagi on Orc:2. That would have been a lot better than the ring mail. Archmagi provides an enhancer for all spells, and an enhancer gives you as much spell power as increasing your intelligence (or skill levels) by 50%. Enhancers are incredibly good, and they stack up to 3, so if you have a staff of earth too it's even better.

Other than that, you didn't do anything disastrous strategically. I would literally never memorize Bolt of Magma on a character that already has LRD, but it looks like you weren't going to use those spell slots anyway. I would recommend not training weapon skill on conjurers/elementalists unless you actually have a good weapon - the pain mace could have been good enough to train maces, except you didn't actually have necromancy skill to power it.
The +5 intelligence ring was better than the MP+9 ring. Higher spell power means your spells do more damage, which means you don't have to cast them as many times to kill things, which means you don't use as much MP. Plus it helps with your success rates!
You probably figured this out already, but gourmand is basically useless - you had 55 rations in your inventory. But none of the other amulets would have been significantly useful either except for harm, and most people dislike using harm anyway.

I guess I probably should have said this at the outset, but you can build absolutely horrendously bad characters and still win reliably with good tactics. And you can have a perfect character and still lose if your tactics are bad enough. This character didn't die because its strategy wasn't optimized enough, it died because it stayed downstairs too long, then wasted a turn quaffing invisibility (which does very little defensively), and I guess you just gave up at the end, but you had a decent chance of saving it by quaffing haste, then reading a scroll of fog (the dragon was out of breath range so it couldn't kill you at that time), and then you could think about quaffing ambrosia and waiting for a couple turns (press 's' or '.') instead of stumbling around, and quaff curing once you have enough MP.

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VeryAngryFelid

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 08:27

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

To clarify, you shouldn't have dropped the shield, you should have trained shields to 15 to remove the penalty. You also had Lehudib's Crystal Spear ready to memorize which is better than iron shot.

An easily correctable problem that got you killed is that you spent time casting Sandblast on depths:1 as you were dying. Sandblast is basically a useless spell at this point. Once you're done with Lair, you shouldn't be casting Sandblast, except against low-AC low-HP popcorn enemies such as insubstantial wisps. If you were casting Iron Shot instead, or just getting out of there earlier, you could have killed the things or gotten away. The same goes for Stone Arrow: near useless once you have Iron Shot.

Another problem that got you killed is that you cast LRD soon after entering Depths:1 before clearing anything. I warned against casting LRD on entering a branch, because it makes a huge amount of noise and attracts enemies to the only stairs, which indeed resulted in your death. This is part of the problem of relying on LRD for your only mass damage. Bolt of Magma would have served you better in that situation.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4341

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 08:38

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Also a ring of protection from magic was better than ring of Yneocky {+Inv rF+ MP+9} for the character.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8666

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 08:49

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Berder wrote:To clarify, you shouldn't have dropped the shield, you should have trained shields to 15 to remove the penalty.
To clarify, I meant that they should have dropped the shield.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 08:53

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Well, you were wrong, that's a nice +2 shield with reflection. It's doing a lot for his defenses and it does not take long to get 15 shields when you already have 8.5 trained.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4341

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 09:02

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

I think character with AC 35 and EV 16 (or 17) does not get much from a +2 regular shield without amulet of reflection, also the shield decreased EV by 1 (or 2). A buckler would be fine of course because it would be free.

Edit.
Based on
{ 0, 50, 150, 300, 500, 750, // 0-5
1050, 1400, 1800, 2250, 2800, // 6-10
3450, 4200, 5050, 6000, 7050, // 11-15
8200, 9450, 10800, 12300, 13950, // 16-20
15750, 17700, 19800, 22050, 24450, // 21-25
27000, 29750 };
having shields at 8.5 saves about 30% XP when going for shields 15 (having 2000, need 7050).
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 09:06

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Not this again... the value of SH does not depend on the value of your other defensive stats. A given SH value reduces your average incoming damage by the same percentage regardless of your other stats, assuming the incoming attack can be blocked. He clearly did not have "enough" defenses yet, because he died.

Wearing a fully trained shield does not decrease your casting success, and nor does it decrease your EV. You only take those penalties as long as you haven't fully trained the shield.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4341

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 09:19

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

I was specifically talking about using shield at 8.5 shields, it was a bad idea to wear it. Of course wearing a shield with Shields 15 would be a good idea.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 09:41

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Well, maybe he could cast Shatter if he wasn't wearing it. Or maybe not. If Shatter was still at red fail while not wearing it - and I'd estimate it would be - he should wear the shield anyway (while training it to 15) because it doesn't interfere with any of his other spells. It certainly increases his defenses.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4341

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 09:46

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

I think casting red Shatter in a desperate situation would be a good move, especially at full HP on upstairs in U:1 . Note he had EV decreased all time and SH was 0 when dying due to Confusion. By the way the character might be saved by quaffing brilliance and casting Shatter even with that shield
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 11:04

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

As a matter of fact, watching the tv again, he did cast shatter (at 17% fail) three times on U:1 immediately before he died. It killed the ground enemies that were attacking him, but in all 3 successful casts he did not kill either the reaver or the fire dragon because they both fly. Also a lot more monsters started shouting and screeching beyond LOS once he started casting it. This supports my belief that shatter is the worst level 9.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

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VeryAngryFelid

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1174

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Thursday, 23rd August 2018, 19:42

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Spellpower also increases accuracy...

Spellpower is good.

arc

Temple Termagant

Posts: 8

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 01:50

Post Friday, 24th August 2018, 04:19

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Yeah I got pushed off the stairs on U1 (TBH it could have been a accidental keypress too, i'm not sure what creature could have pushed me) and that stupid red dragon was in my way. I stupidly prioritized a scarier looking target then cast shatter in desparation. I didn't realize the dragon was flying AND didn't put that together with shatter is bad against flying. The former I didn't know but probably should have guessed. The latter I did know but was dumb (99% of my deaths ;)
things I know for sure is half my deaths are hubris, the majority the rest are doing things I know better than doing. I'm getting better at stopping my more idiotic urges though ;)

Also, can you view the turns taken in a game from a morgue file? I didn't know the morgue file had that much detail.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Friday, 24th August 2018, 04:35

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

trample[1/3]: Knockback that doesn't do extra dmg, and the monster gets a step to fill the gap. Things that trample: (dire) elephants, most large dragons (fire/ice/iron/swamp/golden/bone/storm), hell beasts, and thrashing horrors.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8666

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Friday, 24th August 2018, 04:40

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

arc wrote:Also, can you view the turns taken in a game from a morgue file? I didn't know the morgue file had that much detail.
Online games produce ttyrecs (recordings) of the whole game, from race/class choice up to the death screen.
You can check whether a monster is flying by examining it, btw.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4341

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Friday, 24th August 2018, 05:02

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Or maybe Shatter should have a targetter (requires just pressing Enter to confirm) which displays different backgrounds for different enemy monsters (green for normal, red for flying/insubstantial).
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
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pedritolo, RoGGa

Spider Stomper

Posts: 212

Joined: Monday, 3rd April 2017, 11:44

Post Tuesday, 28th August 2018, 12:23

Re: spell caster mid-ish game advice?

Personally by mid game I tend to stop training spell skills once I have reached a comfortably low failure rate for the spell I want to cast and start training other skills till I find another spell I want to train up for.

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