Thinking Challenge: Bad Move in Tomb 3 - What Would You Do?


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Spider Stomper

Posts: 206

Joined: Thursday, 28th July 2011, 06:11

Post Monday, 13th August 2018, 21:45

Thinking Challenge: Bad Move in Tomb 3 - What Would You Do?

I'm playing a character who is carrying the "Black Torch". He has turned out to be quite versatile and utilizes many different tools (ways) while progressing through the dungeon. I haven't played for a number of years, and certain things in the game have changed, so sometimes I catch myself in situations where I realize that I have played badly.

So here is a situation which I found to be interesting and, maybe those of you who enjoy playing a thinking type of game, might also find.


So I'm in the Tomb of Ancients area of the dungeon. I have recently battled a few greater mummies in the above levels (reason for some of the stat drains), and after verifying the available amount of blood potions in inventory, decided I had enough to start working on the final level.

I set my god gifted servants on guard duty, and preemptively cast the darkness spell before accessing the chute to level 3.



Picture 1:

Spoiler: show
Image


I appeared two squares above the position in the above picture. I see no death scarabs about, so decide on moving down and stab the guardian mummy. Nothing else has been revealed and the monster is still asleep, so looks like it's a go, for the stab...



Picture 2:

Spoiler: show
Image


The resulting noise from the stab was minimal, and I'm confident that it has not alerted anything lurking to the South. Since I'm already close to the Eastern wall, tentatively I step down one square - revealing another guardian mummy - another square down shows nothing more, and then one square down and right, so as to place me within one move of the doorway. The last move reveals the first row of the large corridor mob. I know there are two more rows of monsters a little below them, likely containing some mummy priests, ushabti, and maybe a few greater mummies.

Everything is still asleep but, making any moves towards the Southern mob will likely result in waking a few and I know that things will start spiraling into either a major noisy fight, or in me being forced to withdraw to an exit and leaving a pile of monsters now wandering all over the place. I decide to go for the doorway, to reveal one row below them, and also see what's lurking behind it, and maybe to start establishing a "hold position" for a protracted fight.


Picture 3:

Spoiler: show
Image


Okay, a mummy priest and a death scarab, both still asleep, are revealed in the room so far. However, a skeletal champion has woken from the South and is starting to move up to my last known position in the doorway. I paused here to contemplate the new information. Every move in the Tomb of Ancients can have potential to result in a spiraling situation whereby I lose the ability to maintain control and manage things effectively.

Stabbing the mummy priest on the very next move is a given, but what I do after that will be consequential...


Picture 4:

Spoiler: show
Image


I stabbed the mummy priest and decided that the death scarab would also need to go. It is within two moves of the doorway holding position. The skeletal champion, I would handle when he would be a few squares inside the room, in order to minimize the sound being projected to the outside corridor. I also wanted to see what else was lurking "in the black" within the room. So I took a few steps towards the death scarab, revealing some more (all still asleep), and when the skeletal champion arrived in the doorway and saw me, he cast haste - making noise (look at the noise meter in the picture) - and waking the death scarab next to me!

Now I froze - immediately recognizing my bad playing.

I forgot that the skeletal champion had spells (making noise), and now I'm next to an awake death scarab whereby a successful hit with damage will slow me. Also, if you count the squares to the awake death scarab, you can see that the distance also carries to the line of monsters in the outside corridor, likely awakening some (or all) of them also. I'm out of position to hold the doorway, if slowed I'm within one move of getting hit multiple times by the remaining scarabs and two moves of the hasted skeletal champion. There will be noise and I have to consider that there can very well be a couple of liches still unrevealed in the room.

I cursed myself for being so impetuous after stabbing the mummy priest. The correct play would have been to invoke my cloak and gone invisible. The skeletal champion would not have seen me when reaching the doorway and thus not cast the spell to make the noise, etc., etc.



So now you have the background to the situation. My very next move is now crucial. I was faced with three pressing questions:

- Can I somehow regain control of the situation?

- If so, how can I minimize the consumption of consumables?

- if not, how can I make an exit while waking the least amount of monsters?


It's like playing a very tight game of chess, or a very intricate puzzle game. When I was considering all this, it came to me that this would make for a good "What would you do?" question. So I saved the game and extracted the character file at the very point you see in picture 4.


Character Dump:

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.21.1 (tiles) character file.

Black Blood the Maledictor (Vampire Monk)      Turns: 80619, Time: 1 , 10:27:28

Health: 195/195    AC: 40    Str: 18      XL:     25   Next: 61%
Magic:  29/32      EV: 22    Int: 13 (19) God:    Yredelemnul [******]
Gold:   6626       SH:  9    Dex: 33      Spells: 6/24 levels left

rFire    + . .     SeeInvis +   a - +9 dagger {pierce, rN+ Dex+3}
rCold    + + +     Gourm    .   V - +2 buckler
rNeg     + + +     Faith    +   z - +5 storm dragon scales of Idealism {rElec Dex+3}
rPois    8         Spirit   .   h - +2 hat {Int+3}
rElec    +         Reflect  .   l - +2 cloak {+Inv}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   i - +2 pair of gloves {archery}
MR       ++...                  N - +2 pair of boots of Focus {Regen+ Dex+6 Stlth+}
Stlth    ++++++++..             g - amulet of faith
HPRegen  0.00/turn              B - +5 ring of protection
MPRegen  0.23/turn              o - ring of Mafobeq {rF+ rC+ rN+ Dex+4}

@: darkness, very slightly contaminated, bloodless, non-regenerating
A: fangs 3, see invisible, unbreathing
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, silver, gossamer
a: Bat Form, Recall Undead Slaves, Injury Mirror, Animate Dead, Drain Life,
Enslave Soul, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility


You are on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients.
You worship Yredelemnul.
Yredelemnul is exalted by your worship.
You are bloodless.

You have visited 11 branches of the dungeon, and seen 49 of its levels.
You have visited 1 bazaar.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Trove and Sewer.

You have collected 9529 gold pieces.
You have spent 2903 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +9 dagger of the Big Fish (weapon) {pierce, rN+ Dex+3}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Spider Nest)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It protects you from negative energy.
 b - the +7 trident "Rozat" {elec, rN+}
   (You took it off a deep elf knight on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   Occasionally, upon striking a foe, it will discharge some electrical energy
   and cause terrible harm.
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
 m - a +4 demon blade of flaming
Missiles
 I - 56 tomahawks (quivered)
Armour
 h - a +2 hat of intelligence (worn)
 i - a +2 pair of gloves of archery (worn)
 l - a +2 cloak of invisibility (worn)
 y - a +0 troll leather armour
 z - the +5 storm dragon scales of Idealism (worn) {rElec Dex+3}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It insulates you from electricity.
 N - the +2 pair of boots of Focus (worn) {Regen+ Dex+6 Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+6).
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 V - a +2 buckler (worn)
Jewellery
 g - an amulet of faith (around neck)
 o - the ring of Mafobeq (right hand) {rF+ rC+ rN+ Dex+4}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Crypt)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 B - a +5 ring of protection (left hand)
 W - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
Wands
 v - a wand of digging (46)
 F - a wand of clouds (14)
Scrolls
 d - 17 scrolls of teleportation
 r - 2 scrolls of immolation
 t - 9 scrolls of blinking
 w - 4 scrolls of silence
 x - 31 scrolls of remove curse
 C - 9 scrolls of fear
 E - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
 Q - 6 scrolls of fog
 S - 17 scrolls of identify
Potions
 e - 6 potions of heal wounds
 j - 6 potions of might
 k - 22 potions of curing
 n - 5 potions of resistance
 p - 5 potions of haste
 q - 12 potions of blood
 s - 4 potions of agility
 G - 2 potions of cancellation
 K - 7 potions of ambrosia
 U - 3 potions of invisibility
Miscellaneous
 A - a lamp of fire
 X - a lightning rod (4/4)


   Skills:
 + Level 15.6 Fighting
 - Level 12.0 Short Blades
 - Level 14.0 Polearms
 - Level 16.1 Armour
 - Level 16.0 Dodging
 - Level 20.0 Stealth
 - Level 4.0 Shields
 - Level 8.0 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 22.1 Hexes
 - Level 6.0 Charms
 - Level 6.0 Necromancy
 - Level 10.1 Air Magic
 - Level 12.0 Invocations
 - Level 8.0 Evocations


You have 6 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Confusing Touch       Hex            ######       1%          1    ##.....
b - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ###.......   43%         3    ####...
c - Confuse               Hex            ######..     1%          3    ####...
d - Darkness              Hex            ######....   3%          6    #######
e - Silence               Hex/Air        #####.....   7%          5    ######.


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:7            Lair (6/6) D:9
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:2       Spider (4/4) Lair:2        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (2/2) D:10            Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:2       Tomb (3/3) Crypt:3      Depths (3/5) D:15

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4 ?   D:8 !([%   D:9 **}   D:13 }   Orc:2 ([}(   Elf:1 =}}   Vaults:1 }![:   Vaults:3 =*[

Portals:
Hell: Lair:6 Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3
Abyss: Depths:3
Pandemonium: Depths:1 Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:2

Annotations:
D:4 Crazy Yiuf
Orc:1 Blood Bank - Not Cleared


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You do not heal naturally.
You are immune to poison.
You have razor-sharp teeth.
You have supernaturally acute eyesight. (SInv)
You can survive without breathing.


Message History

Found 99 gold pieces and a chain mail. Found a one-way staircase leading up.
You see here a battleaxe.
Unknown command.
The helpless mummy priest fails to defend itself.
You spit the mummy priest like a pig!!!!!
You destroy the mummy priest!
Yredelemnul accepts your kill.
You feel extremely nervous for a moment...
Something just walked over your grave. No, really!
A death scarab comes into view.
Found 125 gold pieces.
A death scarab comes into view.
Found 232 gold pieces and a scroll of fear.
You see here 9 stones.
A death scarab comes into view.
The ancient champion casts a spell.
The ancient champion seems to speed up.
Found 243 gold pieces and a runed falchion.
Unknown command.
Saving game... please wait.

########
#......# ##$$)$##
#......###$$$$$s#
#......##..$$[$$$
#......##..$$$$$$
#......#....s$s?s
#......#.".@$$$$$
+......z^.(.$$$$$
#......#)....$$$$
 ..M...#......$$$
 .....z##......$$
 zMMz.z##........
  ..... ##......
          #<...


You can see an ancient champion and 4 death scarabs.


Things that aren't visible in the dump:


Percentage concerning abilities:

Recall Undead Slaves, Injury Mirror, Animate Dead = 0%

Drain Life = 1%

Enslave Soul = 7%

Evoke Invisibility = 38%


Available Undead Slaves to potentially be recalled:

Profane Servitor (x2), Bone Dragon, Vampire, Spectral Deep Troll Shaman (haste other, might other)


Game Goals:

- All rune the character.

- Explore the viability of Yredelemnul in the extended portion of the game.



For those who find interest in such things, I would very much appreciate your thoughts and explanation behind them, as to the next few turns and what you hope to achieve. What I did is within the spoiler below. Only look after you've thought about it, or if you don't want to bother engaging in the discussion.

Thanks and have fun.




What I Did:
Spoiler: show
Picture 5:

Image


- Quaffed potion of invisibility.

I don't have many, and certainly wished there was a way that didn't require to use it but, I could not risk several failures at trying to evoke the cloak. Sure enough, the awake death scarab got a damaging hit on me, and I was slowed.


- Invisibility stabbed all death scarabs and the skeletal champion.

Kept the dagger in hand, in order to minimize noise.


- Cast confusion when invisibility wore off.

Two skeletal warriors and a guardian mummy soon followed the skeletal warrior into the room. Two more guardian mummies came from the black, on the Eastern side of the room. Confusion stabbing with the dagger was quiet in both casting and actual stabs. If any liches and/or casting mummies would have come instead, I fully planned to use silence and one of my bigger weapons to take them out. If there would have been a swarm of casters coming from the corridor, then I would have again silenced and draw what I could to the escape hatch and dealt with those on the exit floor.


- Raise dead ability on the death scarab corpses and finished exploring the room.

Yredelemnul gifted me a skeletal warrior, on the last monster kill. So with this small band, I closed the door to the corridor, and finished exposing the black squares within the room. This is the point in the above picture.


Now the situation has been recovered, several monsters eliminated, the Eastern treasure room cleared, and the exit to safety secured. I can now quaff a potion of blood, wear the troll leather armor and cast regeneration, to speed up the recovery of lost hit points. Change back into the dragon scales, and cast darkness a few times to get back to bloodless satiation. I will look at the new items available on the floor for possible improvement to the character. I might now try to clear the Western room, or start exploring the possibility of proceeding through the Southern door in the room, where I know there is less a concentration of monsters.

The cost was a potion of invisibility, but that is my fault due to the dumb course of action I took, after stabbing the mummy priest. Time will tell if it was worth it, or not...

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1193

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Tuesday, 14th August 2018, 01:42

Re: Thinking Challenge: Bad Move in Tomb 3 - What Would You

Before reading your spoiler, I'd blink back to the square SE of the door and try to fight from there until things start looking bad, at which point I'd blink or walk to the upstairs, fight from there as long as I could, then escape up. Hopefully, I'd kill enough monsters that I'd feel OK going back downstairs with darkness and maybe pre-hasted, pre-invisible.

(If I were actually playing and not thinking too hard, I would I'd probably try to walk, not blink, back to the square SE of the door or to the upstairs.)

Now to look at the spoiler...

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1193

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Tuesday, 14th August 2018, 01:44

Re: Thinking Challenge: Bad Move in Tomb 3 - What Would You

Your solution is obviously better than mine. I don't play enough stabbers...

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Tuesday, 14th August 2018, 02:11

Re: Thinking Challenge: Bad Move in Tomb 3 - What Would You

You aren't prepared for tomb. You may be immune to torment as long as you are Bloodless, but ushabtis can cast dispel undead, and there are a lot of them on tomb:3. You are also a Vampire and you are not prepared for extended because you have no way of getting enough blood or healing (Kiku or Makhleb are recommended for this). Also, your weapon is weak. You should be using a +9 Demon Trident or some other +9 Demon weapon if a demon trident is not available.


You do have 9 blinks and 17 teles, though. So, if you really want to get the rune right now, you can ninja it.

A problem with the ninja plan is that most things on the level are asleep, so there may be a big crowd right on top of the rune. If you had Apportation this would not be a problem, but you don't, so it is. Your options therefore are to either wake up the entire level and draw it away from the rune by making noise at the north, or to memorize Apportation. Maybe you can cast Apportation with Brilliance, which you don't currently have. So instead you can leave, train some translocations and/or pick up some potions of brilliance, and come back later.

How to ninja it: first read magic mapping, then look at the map to see where the rune probably is. Then teleport repeatedly until you are within one or two blinks of the rune. Then, you can haste and burn your blinks and grab the rune, then tele again until you land in or near one of the exit chambers, burning more blink scrolls to get to the exit if necessary.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

Dungeon Master

Posts: 585

Joined: Sunday, 9th June 2013, 17:13

Post Wednesday, 15th August 2018, 16:00

Re: Thinking Challenge: Bad Move in Tomb 3 - What Would You

Mod note: Moved this to Dungeon Crawling Advice, since that's the appropriate home for this kind of topic.

Blades Runner

Posts: 616

Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19

Post Wednesday, 15th August 2018, 21:07

Re: Thinking Challenge: Bad Move in Tomb 3 - What Would You

As someone else already said, you really aren't prepared for this level. If you want to try it anyways, here is my advice:

1) Park all your allies on level 2 in the spot where the stairs (from level 3) takes you up to level 2 and put them in guard mode.
2) Go down to level 3
3) Immediately proceed to the stairs back to level 2 (where you parked your allies above)
4) Use blink scroll if you cannot make it to the stairs quickly enough
5) Pull a set of monsters up the stairs and let your allies clobber them as they arrive on the new level
6) Rince and repeat as many times as it takes to empty level 3 of all monsters
7) Get rune and loot

Remain as quiet as possible throughout the process. Attract as few as possible enemies to the stairs, you don't want the whole level to swarm the area between where you land and the stairs up to level 2. This is essentially "handicapped" stair dancing since they added some space between the landing spot and stairs up.

Good luck.

For this message the author svendre has received thanks:
PseudoLoneWolf

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