How to win Deep Elves?


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 467

Joined: Wednesday, 25th May 2016, 23:37

Post Saturday, 21st July 2018, 15:22

How to win Deep Elves?

I have won some casters in the past (1 GrEE 15 rune, 1 DrCj 3 rune), but never a deep elf. Gr and Dr are both easy races, with bonus AC, resistances, and in the case of Dr, health. Both, even when primarily casters, are still decent at melee. In fact, in both games, I think I managed to beat Mennas to death in melee. However, deep elves are a different story. They have little health and no intrinsic resistances, so are very squishy throughout the game. Their weapon and most of their defensive aptitudes are poor, so they require large exp investment to get good at melee, and even then, it is risky because of the low hp. Because of this, I have never managed to win a DE caster, despite their good aptitudes (in fact, I don't see how they are particularly good. +3 spellcasting is nice, but spellcasting isn't that useful. Hexes don't see much use on a blaster mage, and charms are nice, but you are primarily a blaster, and +1 to all elemental schools (except air) and conjurations isn't that much different from +1 to conjurations and earth magic, +0 to the rest, and -2 to air as a gargoyle). How do you win a DE?

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 131

Joined: Wednesday, 2nd May 2012, 10:32

Post Saturday, 21st July 2018, 21:24

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Disclaimer: I'm a mediocre-at-best player, so take my advice with a grain of salt. Also, all of the following is based on a blaster setup. For other character types I'll defer to someone who has actually won one.

Personally, I think Deep Elves are one of the easiest races to win with, particularly in 3-rune games, which is why most of my wins are DE ones. Let's go over their traits:
  • Little health and no resistances. True. Fortunately, 95% of the time it's not going to matter because most enemies will be dead before they can damage you.
  • Poor weapon and defensive aptitudes. True. There's a simple solution for this: don't engage in melee. Kill monsters from range if you can, run if you can't. Just for reference: in my current run I have killed 2770 monsters so far. I have used a weapon a grand total of 61 times. Most of those were probably for fodder I couldn't be bothered to waste MP on.
  • Good magic aptitudes. While Spellcasting might not seem all that useful at first, it has three important functions. First, it increases your MP, allowing to cast more spells before you have to disengage. Second, it gives you more spell slots, allowing you to have a greater variety of spells and thus answer for more situations. Third, it reduces spell hunger, allowing you to sling your big offensive spells continuously without worrying about running out of rations. While the other aptitudes might not be amazing, they're good enough to let you quickly train any school you need.
  • Lastly, and most importantly: easier outs. If you're a melee character and a fight isn't going your way, you have a problem. The monster is right beside you, so you can't safely run up stairs. With a blaster, you have several turns to see if you're going to kill something before it reaches you. If a fight's not going your way, just step back, go up the nearest stairs, rest, and go down a different set of stairs.

That said, here's the overall strategy I use for winning a DE in the current version of Crawl:
  1. Choose a DEFE
  2. For your own sanity, hotkey your spells (I use the function keys)
  3. Turn off every skill except Spellcasting, Conjurations, Fire Magic and Dodging. Keep these on until at least 20+
  4. Don't expect to ever wear anything heavier than robes or leather armor
  5. Use Flame Tongue until you have about 10-15 MP, at which point you can switch to Throw Flame
  6. After every fight, retreat to cleared space and rest until you have full MP
  7. Learn Conjure Flame as soon as you hit level 3. It's good for escaping tough foes, like Ogres, and for killing them, since almost nothing willingly steps into flames in the early game. Just cast it in a hallway and pelt the monster to death from behind the fire
  8. Don't bother with Inner Flame and Sticky Flame
  9. Worship Vehumet
  10. By the time you get to Lair, the usefulness of Throw Flame will start falling off. Good news: Fireball should be coming online. Not only does it deal decent damage, it also gives you AoE for yak packs and is even good at dealing with high EV enemies, such as bees. Just this spell will carry you through Lair, Orc and the Lair branches
  11. If at all possible, try to learn a non-fire damage spell for fire-resistant/immune enemies. At some point Vehumet will likely offer you one
  12. Once you can reliably cast Fireball, turn on Fighting
  13. Learn a more powerful single-target spell, such as Bolt of Fire and/or Iron Shot/LCS
  14. Optional: If you can get it, Spellforged Servitor is amazing at increasing your damage output, conserving your MP and distracting enemies
  15. At this point, you should have everything you need to win. But since you're playing a DE anyway, why not go for one of nukes they might have access to? Ignition should be doable in most 3-rune games if you can find it, but is situational. Getting Fire Storm running is more gear-dependent, but is great at dealing with almost anything. Getting Fire Storm hungerless won't always be possible, but when you do it's hilarious
  16. Win
Wins: DEWz^Veh (4 runes), DEWz^Veh (15 runes), DEWz^Sif (3 runes), HOBe^Trog (3 runes), MiDK^Yred (3 runes), DECj^Sif (4 runes), GrBe^Trog (3 runes), DECj^Vehu (3 runes), MiFi^Wu Jian (3 runes), DEFE^Veh (3 runes), DEFE^Veh (15 runes)

For this message the author FalconNL has received thanks:
arandomperson12

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Saturday, 21st July 2018, 22:23

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

First, read the "safe tactics" guide: viewtopic.php?t=16109 . When playing without melee, it's important to retreat back towards the stairs if there are a lot of monsters (if the monsters aren't too fast) so you don't get stuck in the open without any MP.

Fire Elementalist is the easiest, and you worship Vehumet. You want flame tongue, throw flame, conjure flame, sticky flame, fireball, bolt of fire as your basic spells. To cast a spell you should get it <10% failure. In the early dungeon you can use any weapon without training it, especially ranged weapons (slings/bows). Once you have your basic spells online you want around 10 fighting, 10 dodging, and 10 Evocations for zapping wands when you run out of MP. Later you will need a source of unbranded damage: Iron Shot, Lehudib's Crystal Spear, or Orb of Destruction. Until you find those you can get by with Irradiate, Stone Arrow, or whatever (worst case you can use evocables for resistant enemies). You will also want Bolt of Fire or Bolt of Magma. At some point you should grab a buckler and train 5 shields.

Of course you also want utility spells: Blink and Regeneration.

You may go for Firestorm once you are comfortable with the above stuff.

When you're comfortable with your spell set you will need more fighting and dodging, and you can swap your buckler for a shield, and train 15 shields.

You want to kill things in an MP-efficient way, hitting as many enemies at once as possible. Sometimes you have to walk a little to line up better shots for Fireball or Bolt of Fire.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

For this message the author Berder has received thanks:
arandomperson12
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4224

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Saturday, 21st July 2018, 23:09

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

If it does not have to be a spellcaster, try DeHu (Hunter is always strong and you can easily pick up support spells as you find them) or DeBe (harder than most Be, but still strong).
...{HEMoDEHuDDAs}{HaBeKoAK}CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz
{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMo
HuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6101

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Saturday, 21st July 2018, 23:33

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

I really like DEEN, personally.
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Spider Stomper

Posts: 225

Joined: Monday, 12th September 2016, 16:25

Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 02:01

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

I went DEFE of Usk; I have already won Sif and Veh, and I'm still at the point where I can resolve not to repeat a god.

I am a mediocre player.

Usk works quite well with DEFE because you can do a lot of damage early in a fight, and then Usk paralyses or better yet pain bonds everything (which works delightfully with Ignition, if you have it). You have to remember to burn a lot of consumables in an emergency; you can do this because Usk let you obliterate every other fight, so you have plenty of them.

https://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/d ... 202824.txt
Ascension reports with too many words since 2016.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8609

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 03:14

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

FalconNL wrote:
  • Turn off every skill except Spellcasting, Conjurations, Fire Magic and Dodging. Keep these on until at least 20+
  • Use Flame Tongue until you have about 10-15 MP, at which point you can switch to Throw Flame
  • Don't bother with Inner Flame and Sticky Flame
  • Worship Vehumet
I realize you're just trying to help, but these points are bad advice.

Training skills to 20+ is almost never a good idea unless you've run out of other useful skills entirely; higher skill levels are more expensive than lower ones, and by a large degree. Training a skill from 15 to 20 takes as much XP as training a skill from 0 to 15, or training two skills from 0 to 11. There are niche situations where higher skill levels are useful, but that is not the norm.
Training Dodging early in the game is never a good idea; getting all your spells castable is much, much more important and more useful than an extra point of EV or two. (Training Dodging after getting all your desired spells to good success rates is fine.)

Throw Flame should be used earlier than that. It has a longer range than Flame Tongue and does more damage. You generally want to go ahead and memorize and cast it at level 2. You'll still use Flame Tongue for MP-efficiency against many nearby monsters, but ignoring Throw Flame for several levels is not a good idea.

Ignoring Inner Flame is good advice, it's a useless spell. Ignoring Sticky Flame is not good advice, it's one of the best damage spells in the game. It does a ton of damage over its duration and it can't miss.

Vehumet is one of the weaker gods. You can certainly worship Vehumet if you want to, it's a very fun god (people win atheist games all the time, after all), but most other gods are better for winning - just look at what Fedhas, Gozag, Kiku, or Nemelex offer you, Vehumet doesn't remotely compare.



I can't imagine a situation where I would train shields to 15 on an elementalist, let alone a deep elf one.

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 3
arandomperson12, Midn8, VeryAngryFelid

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 04:48

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Vehumet is one of the weaker gods. You can certainly worship Vehumet if you want to, it's a very fun god (people win atheist games all the time, after all), but most other gods are better for winning - just look at what Fedhas, Gozag, Kiku, or Nemelex offer you, Vehumet doesn't remotely compare.

Vehumet is the #1 choice for blaster mages, because it roughly doubles the time you can stay in combat blasting stuff, maybe even lets you stay in combat indefinitely depending on how MP efficiently you can kill things. It also grants you extra damage spells, early on, for resistant enemies.

The other gods you listed are all terrible choices for a DEFE. Fedhas and Nemelex are "crutch gods" that give early strong allies for characters that are too weak to handle early enemies; a DEFE should have no trouble killing almost anything up to lair:6 with just the starting book (and a few wand shots on rF+ enemies) so a DEFE does not need a crutch god. Fedhas and Nemelex drop off severely in their power level towards the mid and late game, whereas Vehumet only gets stronger.

Kiku is a god whose main benefit is to provide corpses for zombies and simulacra. Undead allies interfere with your line of sight for your damage spells. Blaster mage + allies in the way = sad time. Simulacrum is also a spell that requires Necro and Ice, two entirely separate schools that don't have a lot to do with Fire and Conjuration.

Gozag is a god that curtails your food. That can actually be an issue for a blaster mage trying to cast lots of high level spells. Aside from that, Gozag isn't Vehumet, and doesn't give anything like the MP return that Vehumet does. Just not as strong. (for blaster mages. Gozag is very strong for brutes.)

I can't imagine a situation where I would train shields to 15 on an elementalist, let alone a deep elf one.

It's quite difficult to increase your defensive stats without wearing heavy armor. A full sized shield is a relatively cheap way of doing this, compared to getting the same amount of points of EV by training dodging. On most blaster mages a shield should be a given; deep elves have the -2 aptitude so the full sized shield can wait until after they have all the spells they want for the endgame. Don't underestimate shields. Sometimes a shield will also give you AC or resistances.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

bel

Dis Charger

Posts: 2024

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 05:30

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

To the OP, you can watch some people play Deep Elves online and see how they play.

Vehumet is ok for Deep Elf elementalist. It may be not the strongest, but it's straightforward and smooth. For a DESu, Sif would be better.
I don't ever wear full shields on a DE caster. A buckler is more than enough. Anything more is usually too expensive.

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VeryAngryFelid

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 08:30

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

As an example of when to train shields on a DE: I started a DEAE today because the thread got me thinking about deep elves. Having finished Orc:2 I found a +2 shield. I was using a +0 buckler, but now I am training shields to 15. Why? Because I already have a set of spells suitable for Zot at 2% fail or less! Fcloud, battlesphere, OOD, lightning bolt. If I had better defenses and resists I could be killing orb guardians and orbs of fire. I am in a quandary of what to spend my XP on. Better defenses in the form of a full shield is the only thing that I need!

Granted, this was an unusual case where I found good items and spells. But it should be noted there is no selection bias. This is the only DE I started as a result of this thread.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.22-a0-815-gb582571 (webtiles) character file.

Berder the Eclecticist (Deep Elf Air Elementalist) Turns: 25879, Time: 01:33:31

Health: 88/88      AC: 16    Str:  5    XL:     15   Next: 5%
Magic:  45/45      EV: 14    Int: 39    God:    Vehumet [*****.]
Gold:   570        SH:  5    Dex: 15    Spells: 9/45 levels left

rFire    . . .     SeeInvis .   c - staff of conjuration
rCold    . . .     Gourm    .   m - +0 buckler
rNeg     + . .     Faith    .   U - +4 ring mail {MR+}
rPois    .         Spirit   .   T - +0 helmet of the Slug {rN+ Int+7}
rElec    .         Reflect  .   E - +2 cloak {+Inv}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   (no gloves)
MR       ++...                  J - +2 pair of boots {run}
Stlth    +.........             (no amulet)
HPRegen  0.24/turn              K - +5 ring of intelligence
MPRegen  0.29/turn              G - ring of magical power

@: quick
A: no striking features
a: Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility


You are on level 2 of the Orcish Mines.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 19 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth and Volcano.

You have collected 2044 gold pieces.
You have spent 1474 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +1 short sword of venom
 b - a +5 hunting sling
Missiles
 j - 21 poisoned javelins (quivered)
 t - 376 stones
Armour
 m - a +0 buckler (worn)
 E - a +2 cloak of invisibility (worn)
 J - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 O - a +2 shield
 T - the +0 helmet of the Slug (worn) {rN+ Int+7}
   (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+7).
   It protects you from negative energy.
 U - a +4 ring mail of magic resistance (worn)
Magical Staves
 c - an uncursed staff of conjuration (weapon)
 V - an uncursed staff of cold
Jewellery
 l - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 o - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 G - a ring of magical power (right hand)
 K - a +5 ring of intelligence (left hand)
 R - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
Wands
 q - a wand of polymorph (6)
 u - a wand of digging (26)
 v - a wand of paralysis (16)
 D - a wand of iceblast (8)
 M - a wand of disintegration (63)
 Q - a wand of clouds (5)
Scrolls
 g - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 n - 3 scrolls of fog
 p - a scroll of holy word
 r - 9 scrolls of teleportation
 x - 2 scrolls of amnesia
 y - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 L - 2 scrolls of fear
 N - a scroll of vulnerability
 S - 2 scrolls of summoning
Potions
 d - 2 potions of magic
 e - a potion of cancellation
 f - 3 potions of might
 h - 6 potions of brilliance
 i - 2 potions of agility
 k - 3 potions of lignification
 s - 4 potions of flight
 w - 2 potions of heal wounds
 z - 4 potions of curing
 B - a potion of ambrosia
 H - a potion of mutation
 I - 4 potions of resistance
 P - a potion of haste
Miscellaneous
 A - a lightning rod (4/4)
 F - a phantom mirror
 W - 3 boxes of beasts
 Y - a phial of floods
Comestibles
 C - 6 chunks of flesh
 Z - 21 rations


   Skills:
 - Level 7.8 Fighting
 - Level 11.3 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 + Level 5.3 Shields
 - Level 15.7 Spellcasting
 - Level 15.0 Conjurations
 + Level 2.2 Charms
 - Level 8.0 Ice Magic
 - Level 10.1 Air Magic
 - Level 5.1 Evocations


You have 9 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Shock                 Conj/Air       ####         1%          1    None
b - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ######..     1%          2    None
c - Airstrike             Air            #######...   1%          4    None
d - Lightning Bolt        Conj/Air       ########..   1%          5    None
e - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      #######.     1%          3    None
f - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  #######.     1%          3    None
g - Freezing Cloud        Conj/Ice/Air   ########..   2%          6    None
h - Orb of Destruction    Conj           ########..   2%          7    ###....
i - Iskenderun's Battles  Conj/Chrm      #######.     1%          5    None

Your spell library contains the following spells:

 Spells                   Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
 Magic Dart               Conj           ####         0%          1    None
 Fireball                 Conj/Fire      #######...   1%          5    None
 Bolt of Magma            Conj/Fire/Erth #######...   5%          5    None
 Slow                     Hex            ####....     8%          2    None
 Throw Flame              Conj/Fire      ######       1%          2    None
 Ring of Flames           Chrm/Fire      #####.....   100%        7    ###....
 Venom Bolt               Conj/Pois      #######...   1%          5    None
 Blink                    Tloc           N/A          8%          2    None
 Sticky Flame             Conj/Fire      #######.     1%          4    None
 Summon Ice Beast         Ice/Summ       ######..     10%         4    None
 Call Imp                 Summ           ####....     8%          2    None
 Iron Shot                Conj/Erth      #######...   10%         6    None
 Flame Tongue             Conj/Fire      #####        1%          1    None
 Call Canine Familiar     Summ           ####....     16%         3    None
 Summon Butterflies       Summ           ####....     4%          1    None
 Static Discharge         Conj/Air       ########     1%          3    None
 Summon Hydra             Summ           ####......   100%        7    ###....
 Inner Flame              Hex/Fire       ####....     4%          3    None
 Fulminant Prism          Conj/Hex       #######...   1%          4    None
 Spellforged Servitor     Conj/Summ      #######...   43%         7    ###....
 Summon Mana Viper        Hex/Summ       ####....     80%         5    None
 Poisonous Vapours        Pois/Air       ######       1%          2    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (10/15)            Temple (1/1) D:4            Lair (6/6) D:8
 Shoals (0/4) Lair:3        Snake (0/4) Lair:3        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (2/2) D:10            Elf (0/3) Orc:2       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4 :   D:8 [   Orc:1 [   Orc:2 ?[(!

Portals:
Hell: Lair:6

Annotations:
D:1 Terence
D:10 necromuncher's ghost, journeyman GrBe
Lair:4 pmoppi's ghost, journeyman KoVM

Message History

The orc knight is moderately wounded.
Unknown command.
Casting: Shock (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Shock (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - orc knight
Aim: an orc knight, wielding a war axe of electrocution and wearing a plate armour (moderately wounded)
You feel a surge of power! The zap hits the orc knight.
The orc knight is moderately wounded.
Your battlesphere fires!
The barrage of energy hits the orc knight.
The orc knight is moderately wounded.
Unknown command.
Casting: Shock (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Lightning Bolt (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, p - orc knight
You feel a surge of power!
You hear a mighty clap of thunder!
The bolt of lightning hits the orc knight.
The orc knight is moderately wounded.
The bolt of lightning hits the orc knight.
The orc knight is almost dead.
Your battlesphere fires!
The barrage of energy hits the orc knight.
You kill the orc knight!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
Your Charms skill increases to level 2!
Casting: Lightning Bolt (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Shock (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - orc
Aim: an orc, wielding a flail (unusually strong)
You feel a surge of power! The zap hits the orc.
The orc is severely wounded.
Your battlesphere fires!
The barrage of energy hits the orc.
You kill the orc!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
You feel your power returning.
Casting: Shock (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Shock (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - orc warrior
Aim: an orc warrior, wielding a dire flail and wearing a plate armour (unusually strong)
You feel a surge of power! The zap hits the orc warrior.
The orc warrior appears unharmed.
Your battlesphere fires!
The barrage of energy hits the orc warrior.
The orc warrior is moderately wounded.
Unknown command.
Casting: Shock (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Lightning Bolt (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - orc warrior
Aim: an orc warrior, wielding a dire flail and wearing a plate armour (moderately wounded, unusually strong)
You feel a surge of power!
You hear a mighty clap of thunder!
The bolt of lightning hits the orc warrior.
The orc warrior is severely wounded.
Your battlesphere fires!
The barrage of energy hits the orc warrior.
The orc warrior is severely wounded.
Your battlesphere expends the last of its energy and dissipates.
The orc warrior hits you with a dire flail.
Casting: Lightning Bolt (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Lightning Bolt (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - orc warrior
Aim: an orc warrior, wielding a dire flail and wearing a plate armour (severely wounded, unusually strong)
You feel a surge of power!
You hear a mighty clap of thunder!
The bolt of lightning hits the orc warrior.
You kill the orc warrior!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
You feel your power returning.
Things that are here:
a dire flail; a plate armour; an orc corpse
You butcher the orc corpse.
C - 6 chunks of flesh (gained 3)
Things that are here:
a dire flail; a plate armour
There isn't anything to butcher here.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
You now have 1124 gold pieces (gained 23).
Things that are here:
a war axe of electrocution; a plate armour
There isn't anything to butcher here.
There isn't anything to butcher here.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Things that are here:
a short sword; an orc corpse
You now have 1158 gold pieces (gained 34).
Things that are here:
a dagger; a robe
There is an open door here.
An orc comes into view. It is wielding a club.
The orc warrior shouts! The orc shouts!
Casting: Lightning Bolt (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Shock (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - orc warrior
Aim: an orc warrior, wielding a hand axe of chopping and wearing a plate armour
You feel a surge of power! The zap hits the orc warrior.
The orc warrior is lightly wounded.
The zap hits the orc.
The orc is almost dead.
Unknown command.
Casting: Shock (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Lightning Bolt (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, p - orc warrior
You feel a surge of power!
You hear a mighty clap of thunder!
The bolt of lightning hits the orc warrior.
You kill the orc warrior!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
You feel your power returning.
Casting: Lightning Bolt (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Shock (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line
You feel a surge of power! The zap hits the orc.
You kill the orc!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
Things that are here:
a hand axe of chopping; a plate armour; an orc corpse
You butcher the orc corpse.
C - 7 chunks of flesh (gained 1)
Things that are here:
a hand axe of chopping; a plate armour
There isn't anything to butcher here.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Things that are here:
a club; a ring mail; an orc corpse
You butcher the orc corpse.
C - 9 chunks of flesh (gained 2)
Things that are here:
a club; a ring mail
There isn't anything to butcher here.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Things that are here:
a leather armour; a mace
You see here a club.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Search for what [Enter for "@", or ? for help]? @
Unknown command.
Things that are here:
a chain mail; a halberd
Some of the chunks of flesh in your inventory have rotted away.
Magic restored.
Some of the chunks of flesh in your inventory have rotted away.
There is an open door here.
Things that are here:
a chain mail; a hand axe
Things that are here:
a falchion; a ring mail; a hand axe
You see here a dagger.
You see here a halberd.
There is a roughly hewn altar of Beogh here.
There is an entrance to Boticothri's Distillery here.
w - 2 potions of heal wounds (gained 1); d - 2 potions of magic (gained 1)
P - a potion of haste
Thank you for shopping at Boticothri's Distillery!
There is an open door here.
Things that are here:
a chain mail; a hand axe
You see here a tomahawk.
You see here a tomahawk.
You see here a ring mail.
You see here a bolt.
You see here a whip.
You see here a club.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
Things that are here:
a chain mail; a hand axe
You see here a falchion.
You see here a +3 leather armour of fire resistance.
There is an entrance to Votanu Idio's Magic Scroll Shoppe here.
S - 2 scrolls of summoning
Thank you for shopping at Votanu Idio's Magic Scroll Shoppe!
Okay, then.
Unknown command.
You see here a +3 leather armour of fire resistance.

     #......#####.....)..##
     #.....##   #.......##
     #......#####........##
     ###.................#.
     ####.#.........###....
 #####........)...####.....
##..##.#########...# ##....
#......#.8!...##..##  ##...
##.....#∩[@=...#.## ####...
##.....#.8.....#.#  #.#....
#......#####)._#.#  ##.....
##.....#...[...#.#  ##...#.
##.....#.8.#...#.####...###
#......'...#..##.........##
##.....#########.#o.......#
 ##..........oo..##.##...##
 #.......###########.##...#


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  An orc warlord (Orc:2)
  A minotaur (Lab)
  9 hydras
  18 death yaks
  4 two-headed ogres
  A queen ant (Lair:2)
  2 orc high priests (Orc:2)
  A sixfirhy (Lair:6)
  A wizard (Lair:6)
  4 orc knights
  5 oklob plants
  7 orc sorcerers
  An ugly thing (Volcano)
  A manticore (Lair:3)
  3 elephants (Lair:2)
  A guardian serpent (Lair:3)
  6 black mambas
  A smoke demon (Volcano)
  An orange demon (Lair:6)
  11 spiny frogs
  A gargoyle (D:9)
  A hellwing (Lair:6)
  6 komodo dragons
  5 rime drakes
  4 ice devils (Lair:6)
  3 trolls
  4 red devils (Volcano)
  3 polar bears
  6 dream sheep (Lair:5)
  10 hippogriffs
  11 blink frogs
  Sigmund (D:2)
  A spriggan (D:9)
  3 wyverns
  6 redbacks (Lab)
  A wraith (D:9)
  A shadow (Lab)
  36 yaks
  A steam dragon (D:10)
  6 basilisks
  8 hungry ghosts
  4 wargs (Orc:2)
  5 soldier ants (Lair:2)
  Duvessa (D:7)
  24 water moccasins
  6 hell hounds
  8 porcupines
  34 orc warriors
  An ice beast (D:9)
  5 sky beasts
  A black bear (D:9)
  6 ogres
  3 phantoms
  A wolf (Lair:6)
  3 centaurs
  9 crocodiles
  10 bullfrogs
  A big kobold (D:10)
  2 gnoll sergeants
  Dowan (D:7)
  An earth elemental (Lab)
  A wyvern skeleton (D:10)
  A water moccasin zombie (D:9)
  2 scorpions
  2 howler monkeys
  3 wights (D:6)
  An electric eel (Lair:5)
  8 crimson imps
  12 hounds
  3 bullfrog zombies
  4 jellies
  3 bullfrog skeletons
  21 orc priests
  Crazy Yiuf (D:5)
  11 orc wizards
  A centaur skeleton (D:10)
  2 iguanas
  11 worker ants
  Robin (D:3)
  16 gnolls
  11 adders
  2 shadow imps
  2 white imps (D:7)
  2 adder skeletons (D:6)
  4 worms
  3 dart slugs
  4 leopard geckos
  87 orcs
  3 giant cockroaches
  12 goblins
  14 hobgoblins
  15 jackals
  15 kobolds
  4 quokkas
  A ball python (D:1)
  6 bats
  6 frilled lizards
  A jackal skeleton (D:4)
  7 rats
  2 fungi
  2 plants (Lair:6)
630 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A blink frog (Lair:5)
1 creature vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  6 fungi
  12 plants
18 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 649 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Berder the Deep Elf Air Elementalist began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 6/6
   222 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 2/8
   952 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 6/9
   962 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness
  1492 | D:2      | Noticed Terence
  1731 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 24/24 MP: 3/10
  2605 | D:2      | Noticed Sigmund
  2727 | D:3      | Learned a level 4 spell: Airstrike
  2735 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 28/28 MP: 9/11
  2783 | D:3      | Noticed Robin
  2797 | D:3      | Killed Robin
  3873 | D:4      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
  3873 | D:4      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  4050 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 32/32 MP: 5/14
  4141 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
  4153 | D:4      | Learned a level 5 spell: Lightning Bolt
  4198 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4224 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4469 | D:4      | Found Sidwoduf's Book Shoppe.
  4597 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4794 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Air Magic
  4802 | D:5      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  4805 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  4854 | D:5      | Noticed a sky beast
  4857 | D:5      | Killed a sky beast
  4857 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/36 MP: 3/17
  4950 | D:5      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  5293 | D:5      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  5516 | D:5      | Found a runed door.
  5763 | D:5      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  5766 | D:5      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  6014 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/41 MP: 15/20
  6132 | D:6      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  7255 | D:7      | Noticed Duvessa
  7255 | D:7      | Noticed Dowan
  7317 | D:7      | Killed Duvessa
  7328 | D:7      | Killed Dowan
  7974 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 41/45 MP: 13/23
  8202 | D:8      | Found Wecoozo's Antique Armour Emporium.
  8212 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
  8221 | D:8      | Killed a death yak
  8229 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
  8230 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
  8233 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
  8669 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  8683 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  8915 | D:8      | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
  9173 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
  9177 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
  9326 | D:2      | Killed Sigmund
  9338 | D:2      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  9348 | D:2      | Became a worshipper of Vehumet
  9583 | D:8      | Killed a death yak
  9583 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 53/53 MP: 24/26
  9586 | D:8      | Killed a death yak
  9587 | D:8      | Killed a death yak
  9587 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  9736 | D:8      | Bought a pair of embroidered boots for 217 gold pieces
  9746 | D:8      | Identified a +2 pair of boots of running (You bought it in a shop on level 8 of the Dungeon)
  9749 | D:8      | Bought a smoking ring mail for 261 gold pieces
  9760 | D:8      | Identified the +2 ring mail of Xom's Reproof {rC- rN+++ Dex+3 SInv} (You bought it in a shop on level 8 of the Dungeon)
  9818 | D:9      | Noticed a gargoyle
  9820 | D:9      | Killed a gargoyle
 10118 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 10121 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 10121 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations
 10173 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 10192 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 10192 | D:9      | Reached * piety under Vehumet
 10192 | D:9      | Offered knowledge of Flame Tongue by Vehumet.
 10192 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 57/61 MP: 2/28
 10552 | D:9      | Found the +5 scythe "Finisher" {speed, Str+3}
 10898 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 10906 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 11030 | D:9      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
 11248 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 11248 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 11401 | D:10     | Found a runed gate.
 11401 | D:10     | Found a runed gate.
 11408 | D:10     | Found a runed gate.
 11411 | D:10     | Noticed necromuncher's ghost (journeyman GrBe)
 11419 | D:10     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 11422 | D:10     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 12030 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Air Magic
 12113 | D:10     | Reached ** piety under Vehumet
 12114 | D:10     | Offered knowledge of Sting by Vehumet.
 12128 | D:10     | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 12614 | D:10     | Got a heavily runed helmet
 12620 | D:10     | Identified the +0 helmet of the Slug {rN+ Int+7} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 12693 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 12749 | Lair:1   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 12796 | Lair:1   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 13082 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 70/70 MP: 19/30
 13340 | Lair:1   | Offered knowledge of Throw Frost by Vehumet.
 13655 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 14190 | Lair:2   | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 14223 | Lab      | Entered a labyrinth
 14399 | Lab      | Reached *** piety under Vehumet
 14404 | Lab      | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 14489 | Lab      | Got a fine leather armour
 14960 | Lab      | Identified the +2 leather armour of Vojodwul {rN+ Stlth+} (You found it in a labyrinth)
 15074 | Lab      | Noticed a minotaur
 15077 | Lab      | Killed a minotaur
 15077 | Lab      | Offered knowledge of Inner Flame by Vehumet.
 15098 | Lab      | Got a bloodstained shield
 15110 | Lab      | Identified the Collected Works on Combat Magic and Air
 15130 | Lab      | Identified the cursed -3 shield of Kajass {Str+4 Dex+3 Stlth-} (You took it off a minotaur in a labyrinth)
 15189 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame
 15193 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud
 15200 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 6 spell: Freezing Cloud
 15518 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic
 15864 | Lair:2   | Reached **** piety under Vehumet
 16085 | Lair:2   | Noticed a queen ant
 16095 | Lair:2   | Killed a queen ant
 16360 | Lair:2   | Got a scorched hand crossbow
 16361 | Lair:2   | Identified the +4 hand crossbow of Armageddon {elec, rC+ MR++ Int-5 Dex+3} (You found it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)
 16393 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 16420 | Lair:2   | Offered knowledge of Throw Icicle by Vehumet.
 16603 | Lair:3   | Noticed a five-headed hydra
 16608 | Lair:3   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 16612 | Lair:3   | Killed a five-headed hydra
 16612 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 76/76 MP: 25/31
 17269 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 17300 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 17722 | Lair:4   | Found a transporter.
 17725 | Lair:4   | Noticed pmoppi's ghost (journeyman KoVM)
 18007 | Lair:4   | Found a transporter.
 18596 | Lair:4   | Learned a level 7 spell: Orb of Destruction
 18739 | Lair:5   | Found a dark tunnel.
 18762 | Volcano  | Entered a volcano
 19353 | Lair:5   | Reached ***** piety under Vehumet
 19356 | Lair:5   | Offered knowledge of Force Lance by Vehumet.
 20309 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 20313 | Lair:5   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 20592 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 20608 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 81/82 MP: 8/33
 21647 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 15 in Conjurations
 21717 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 15 in Spellcasting
 22553 | Lair:6   | Offered knowledge of Ozocubu's Refrigeration by Vehumet.
 22647 | Lair:6   | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 22653 | Lair:6   | Found a gateway to Hell.
 22967 | D:8      | Bought a steaming shield for 275 gold pieces
 22977 | D:8      | Identified the +8 shield "Ditz" {*Slow rPois rC- rN++} (You bought it in a shop on level 8 of the Dungeon)
 23048 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 23048 | Orc:1    | Found Temoidif's Antique Armour Boutique.
 23144 | Orc:1    | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 23296 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 23451 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 23643 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 23659 | Orc:2    | Found Boticothri's Distillery.
 23878 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 24152 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 24164 | Orc:2    | Found Votanu Idio's Magic Scroll Shoppe.
 24171 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 28 gold pieces
 24193 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of blinking for 105 gold pieces
 24218 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 24435 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 24492 | Orc:2    | Offered knowledge of Poison Arrow by Vehumet.
 24606 | Orc:2    | Noticed an orc warlord
 24752 | Orc:2    | Killed an orc warlord
 24961 | Orc:1    | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 25292 | Orc:1    | Reached XP level 15. HP: 76/88 MP: 29/36
 25417 | Orc:1    | Learned a level 5 spell: Iskenderun's Battlesphere
 25512 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 25569 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 25569 | Orc:2    | Found Ocvazop's Antique Armour Shop.
 25572 | Orc:2    | Found Ziannack's Antique Weapon Boutique.
 25693 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 25802 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 70 gold pieces
 25802 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of magic for 112 gold pieces
 25802 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of haste for 140 gold pieces
 25877 | Orc:2    | Bought 2 scrolls of summoning for 266 gold pieces

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 |
---------------+----------------------------------------------+-----
Conjurations   |  2  3     4     5  6  8  9 10       13 15    | 15.0
Air Magic      |           4     5  6  7  8  9 10             | 10.1
Spellcasting   |              4  5  6  8 10 11 12    13 15    | 15.7
Fighting       |                          2  4  6  7          |  7.8
Dodging        |                          4  6  9 10 11       | 11.3
Evocations     |                                   4  5       |  5.1
Ice Magic      |                                   7  8       |  8.0
Shields        |                                         5    |  5.3
Charms         |                                            2 |  2.2
Stealth        |                                              |  2.4

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |       |     1 |    11 |    11 |       ||    23
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |     4 ||     4
       Short sword       |       |       |       |       |    28 ||    28
 Fire: Hunting sling     |       |       |       |       |    52 ||    52
 Cast: Shock             |    89 |   161 |   197 |   366 |   296 ||  1109
       Swiftness         |       |     1 |     1 |     1 |     3 ||     6
       Airstrike         |       |     3 |    26 |   108 |   115 ||   252
       Lightning Bolt    |       |       |     7 |    65 |   106 ||   178
       Freezing Cloud    |       |       |       |       |    52 ||    52
       Conjure Flame     |       |       |       |       |     7 ||     7
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
       Orb of Destructio |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
       Iskenderun's Batt |       |       |       |       |     4 ||     4
 Abil: Evoke Invisibilit |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |     1 |    12 ||    13
       Phial of floods   |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
  Use: Scroll            |       |     6 |     7 |     8 |     7 ||    28
       Potion            |       |     1 |     3 |     1 |     1 ||     6
 Stab: Sleeping          |       |     1 |     1 |       |       ||     2
  Eat: Chunk             |     2 |     8 |     8 |    19 |    20 ||    57
       Ration            |       |     1 |     2 |     1 |     2 ||     6
Armor: Robe              |     3 |     5 |    23 |    23 |       ||    54
       Ring mail         |       |       |       |    25 |    62 ||    87
Dodge: Dodged            |    26 |    36 |    53 |   109 |   141 ||   365
Block: Buckler           |       |       |       |     4 |    38 ||    42

Table legend:
 A = Spawn XP
 B = Non-spawn XP
 C = Spawn XP percentage of total XP
 D = Spawn monster count
 E = Non-spawn monster count
 F = Spawn count percentage of total count
 G = Total turns spent on level

                 A         B        C        D         E        F        G   
            +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------
      Total |       0 |  105545 |   0.0 |       0 |     627 |   0.0 |   25879
            +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------
        D:1 |       0 |      80 |   0.0 |       0 |      36 |   0.0 |    1851
        D:2 |       0 |     366 |   0.0 |       0 |      32 |   0.0 |     983
        D:3 |       0 |      63 |   0.0 |       0 |      23 |   0.0 |    1041
        D:4 |       0 |     221 |   0.0 |       0 |      11 |   0.0 |     790
        D:5 |       0 |     748 |   0.0 |       0 |      15 |   0.0 |    1252
        D:6 |       0 |     668 |   0.0 |       0 |      17 |   0.0 |     964
        D:7 |       0 |    1304 |   0.0 |       0 |      29 |   0.0 |    1958
        D:8 |       0 |    4337 |   0.0 |       0 |      19 |   0.0 |     785
        D:9 |       0 |    5550 |   0.0 |       0 |      40 |   0.0 |    1535
       D:10 |       0 |    4866 |   0.0 |       0 |      49 |   0.0 |    1400
     Lair:1 |       0 |    6805 |   0.0 |       0 |      27 |   0.0 |    1665
     Lair:2 |       0 |    6228 |   0.0 |       0 |      31 |   0.0 |    1454
     Lair:3 |       0 |    7490 |   0.0 |       0 |      24 |   0.0 |    1116
     Lair:4 |       0 |    6337 |   0.0 |       0 |      21 |   0.0 |     997
     Lair:5 |       0 |   10340 |   0.0 |       0 |      32 |   0.0 |    1455
     Lair:6 |       0 |   27014 |   0.0 |       0 |      63 |   0.0 |    2266
      Orc:1 |       0 |    2983 |   0.0 |       0 |      30 |   0.0 |     590
      Orc:2 |       0 |   12834 |   0.0 |       0 |     102 |   0.0 |    2241
        Lab |       0 |    4484 |   0.0 |       0 |      18 |   0.0 |     931
    Volcano |       0 |    2827 |   0.0 |       0 |       8 |   0.0 |     377
            +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------

streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 08:50

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

  Code:
 - Level 7.8 Fighting
 + Level 5.3 Shields

I would train fighting instead, especially for character with AC 16, EV 14 and SH 5. Also note it is not typical to have +12 Int from gear at this point.
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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 09:12

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
  Code:
 - Level 7.8 Fighting
 + Level 5.3 Shields

I would train fighting instead. Also note it is not typical to have +12 Int from gear at this point.

I can increase my defensive stats more quickly by training shields than by training fighting or dodging.

First, fighting has -2 aptitude while Dodging has +2 aptitude. Also, it's a general rule that a level of Fighting has less effect on your defensive ability than a level of Dodging (against attacks that can be dodged, which is most). Note that currently, Fighting has a higher training XP cost than Dodging (11.3 vs 10.6). So, Fighting is out of the running. It's a question of Dodging or Shields.

Wizmode (on my local machine; my actual game is on cbro) tells me I'd have SH 14 if I had 15 Shields skill and the +2 shield without changing anything else. That is +9 SH compared to now. If I trained Dodging instead, it would take a lot to get +9 EV. In fact, wizmode tells me that if I had dodging 20 while changing nothing else, it would only give me 18 EV, which is only +4 EV compared to now. Dodging 27 gives only +7 EV compared to now. The shield gives more defensive points for less XP.
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Slime Squisher

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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 09:22

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

+9 SH is not equal to +9 EV. The game has some weird calculations for blocks and SH's displayed value is considerably inflated compared to its actual usefulness.

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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 10:03

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Berder wrote:First, fighting has -2 aptitude while Dodging has +2 aptitude. Also, it's a general rule that a level of Fighting has less effect on your defensive ability than a level of Dodging (against attacks that can be dodged, which is most). Note that currently, Fighting has a higher training XP cost than Dodging (11.3 vs 10.6). So, Fighting is out of the running. It's a question of Dodging or Shields.

Wizmode (on my local machine; my actual game is on cbro) tells me I'd have SH 14 if I had 15 Shields skill and the +2 shield without changing anything else. That is +9 SH compared to now. If I trained Dodging instead, it would take a lot to get +9 EV. In fact, wizmode tells me that if I had dodging 20 while changing nothing else, it would only give me 18 EV, which is only +4 EV compared to now. Dodging 27 gives only +7 EV compared to now. The shield gives more defensive points for less XP.


Note I was not suggesting Dodging, even without shield I would train Fighting instead of Dodging. My reasons are:
1) SH is currently the lowest defense for the character, it does not do much. Even getting a point of AC (not a bad idea in ring mail when AC is your highest defense by the way) is better than +3 SH. As extreme example, would you train a buckler with AC 50/EV 50 or rather get more HP which synergize well with high defense?
2) The character has low HP due to DE penalty, this is the weakest spot of the character with those offense and AC/EV.
3) The character can stay long in fights due to Vehumet and high MP and as far as i know HP regeneration depends on max HP.
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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 10:07

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Berder wrote:In fact, wizmode tells me that if I had dodging 20 while changing nothing else, it would only give me 18 EV, which is only +4 EV compared to now.


Of course. Even worse results happen when a SpEn tries to wear GDS, the low strength gives severe penalties. I would try to find a +2 robe with MR+ by the way.
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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 15:09

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Leszczynek wrote:+9 SH is not equal to +9 EV. The game has some weird calculations for blocks and SH's displayed value is considerably inflated compared to its actual usefulness.

I've investigated this more thoroughly than anyone. Click the link "value of ac/ev/sh" in my signature if you would like to know more. In short, as long as you are not surrounded by several enemies or fighting a hydra, 1 SH is comparable to 1 EV. SH is still decent when there are two enemies attacking at once, unless each enemy has multiple attacks.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Of course. Even worse results happen when a SpEn tries to wear GDS, the low strength gives severe penalties. I would try to find a +2 robe with MR+ by the way.

That's a quite decent ring mail I'm wearing. If I swapped it for a +2 robe my defenses would be 11/20/5 instead of 16/14/5. 16/14/5 is significantly better after accounting for 24% ring mail GDR. To your point, if I then trained Dodging to 23, which is similar to the cost of training Shields to 15, my defenses would be 11/29/5. So Dodging in this case would be a +9 benefit, comparable to the benefit from using the shield. However, there is the fact I'd have less AC and GDR in this scenario. 11/29/5 or 16/14/14? I ran an FSIM against a vault guard. AvEffDam defending with 11/29/5 is 3.7, AvEffDam defending with 16/14/14 is 2.7. The shield is the clear winner.


It should also be noted that it's not an either/or choice in the long term. I will certainly train Dodging to a high level at some point on this character, after I have the shield, and have the benefits of both SH and EV. If I found an amazing artifact robe and went with the robe-and-23-dodging plan now, at the end of it the best way to increase my defenses would still be the shield, so that would be trained next.


The lesson from all this is that a shield tends to be the cheapest way to increase your defenses other than wearing heavier armor, if you don't need to be using 2h weapons. And that this is true even if your Dodging aptitude is +2 and your Shields aptitude is -2. Dynast and I exploited this heavily in our NaWn streaks :) .
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bel

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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 19:11

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

The problem is: this is DCA, and one should be discussing typical Deep Elf characters. Many of your points fail to generalize.

Your game is highly unusual: you have found +12 int gear, +2 shield early (and no good buckler), a +4 ring mail (and no good robe), and a great spell selection.

The +12 int gear means that your spell failure rate is lower than it would otherwise be. Your +4 ring mail means that training Dodging has (relatively) less returns on investment.

Also, there's a simple point being missed in all these discussions about EV vs SH. For a spellcaster, a full shield will likely not be usable till you get the shields penalty down to a manageable level; while EV or HP is useful straight away. The shield penalty is relatively less important in your game because you have +12 int.

Finally, your fsim example is wrong. You have neglected Ozocubu's Armour, which is possible with a robe, but not with ring mail. Also, if you really want to maximize AC with zero encumbrance, you should be considering a steam dragon armour which has same GDR as ring mail, but no encumbrance. But most people use robes, because robes can have pretty good egos (like Archmagi or resistance); this is also not factored in.

If you want to make the point that using a full shield could be marginally useful in a very unusual game, fine. But this is DCA, and the aim (ostensibly) is to help newbies play a typical game.

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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 20:22

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

bel wrote:The problem is: this is DCA, and one should be discussing typical Deep Elf characters. Many of your points fail to generalize.

Your game is highly unusual: you have found +12 int gear, +2 shield early (and no good buckler), a +4 ring mail (and no good robe), and a great spell selection.

The +12 int gear means that your spell failure rate is lower than it would otherwise be. Your +4 ring mail means that training Dodging has (relatively) less returns on investment.

Also, there's a simple point being missed in all these discussions about EV vs SH. For a spellcaster, a full shield will likely not be usable till you get the shields penalty down to a manageable level; while EV or HP is useful straight away. The shield penalty is relatively less important in your game because you have +12 int.

Certainly, I was the first to admit this is an unusual game. I would say it's unusual in that it makes sense to begin training Shields to 15 as early as Orc:2. I wouldn't say it's unusual in that it makes sense to train Shields at all. Usually there is a long period in the endgame, through depths and zot, during which one has all of one's spells, and just needs more defenses. This is the time where one might just turn on Fighting and Dodging until the game is over. However, it's typically more effective to also train a full shield during this time; all the same considerations I described for this character apply, just later in the game. It's just an effective way to get 9 or 10 defensive points you can't as easily get any other way.

Finally, your fsim example is wrong. You have neglected Ozocubu's Armour, which is possible with a robe, but not with ring mail.

Haven't found Ozo's Armor. Also, my experience of using the new Ozo's Armor on blaster mages tells me I would use it only a small proportion of the time. The new Ozo's armor must be cast while standing still, which means it must be cast when enemies are in view and you are in an ideal position to fight. A Deep Elf blaster is a character that can kill most enemies in one or two shots. So the question is, do I blast the enemy half-dead, or perhaps blast multiple enemies half-dead at once, or do I first retreat to an ideal position to fight and then cast Ozo's? The better answer is more often to blast than to armor up. Once the enemies actually approach to melee range, I typically want to start walking backwards, whether I have Ozo's or not.

Also, if you really want to maximize AC with zero encumbrance, you should be considering a steam dragon armour which has same GDR as ring mail, but no encumbrance. But most people use robes, because robes can have pretty good egos (like Archmagi or resistance); this is also not factored in.

I have never once worn steam dragon armor into Zot. It drops as +0 unbranded. I will likely wear an Archmagi robe into Zot, by which time I will have my full shield and my 20+ dodging, giving me defenses of probably like 18/29/14, which are really not that good, but are a step up from 18/29/5, which is just terrible.

If you want to make the point that using a full shield could be marginally useful in a very unusual game, fine.

The point is that training a full shield can be optimal as early as Orc:2 in an unusual game. In a usual game, training a full shield is very frequently optimal by Depths.

Here are my average ac, ev, and sh when entering zot as a deep elf:
  Code:
<causative> !lm . br.enter=zot de-- x=avg(ac)
<Sequell> 10 milestones for causative (br.enter=zot de--): avg(ac)=18.5
<causative> !lm . br.enter=zot de-- x=avg(ev)
<Sequell> 10 milestones for causative (br.enter=zot de--): avg(ev)=25
<causative> !lm . br.enter=zot de-- x=avg(sh)
<Sequell> 10 milestones for causative (br.enter=zot de--): avg(sh)=13.4

Based on the avg(sh), you can see that over 10 games I did find it valuable to train a full shield most of the time. In more detail:
  Code:
<causative> !lm . br.enter=zot de-- s=sh
<Sequell> 10 milestones for causative (br.enter=zot de--): 2x 10, 28, 8, 9, 5, 12, 14, 18, 20
<causative> !lm . br.enter=zot de-- s=ac,ev
<Sequell> 10 milestones for causative (br.enter=zot de--): 3x 16 (25, 26, 30), 2x 17 (29, 30), 18 (24), 19 (22), 21 (27), 22 (15), 23 (22)
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bel

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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 21:11

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Well, if it's an unusual game, why are we discussing it in DCA? Post a dump of two or three of your usual games, and then we can discuss it.

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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 21:53

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

We were discussing that because it was the Deep Elf I started in reaction to this thread. This is my previous DE win:

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 153355.txt
DEEn^Ashenzari; LCS and Fire Storm; +2 Shield

Ashenzari makes it easier to get level 9s going than Vehumet does (assuming you actually find the books for them; Vehumet provides them). I ran this character as a test of Ash. I would say Ash is a viable alternative to Vehumet for blaster mages, but I still prefer Vehumet. This is the most common kind of blaster with Fire Magic for area damage plus Earth Magic for single target unbranded damage.

The game before that:

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 111946.txt
DEWn^Vehumet; Glaciate and Orb of Destruction; +1 Buckler of Protection

Pretty standard Vehumet blaster. This is the other typical kind of blaster, with ice magic and orb of destruction.

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/hyperborean ... 075854.txt
DEAr^Fedhas; Iron Shot, Bolt of Fire, and distortion quickblade; +3 Buckler of Protection
This was a terrible, slow game: 10 hrs for 3 runes. Fedhas sucks. When I have a weak character I don't die, I just take longer to play.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
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bel

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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 22:11

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

It seems to me that in 2 out of 3 games (including the important Vehumet case), you didn't wear a shield.

And even the Ash case is dubious for generalization because Ash provides skill boosts: you hadn't reached 15 (base) shields even by the time you finished the game.
Last edited by bel on Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 22:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 22:12

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

every goddamn thread

bel

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Post Tuesday, 24th July 2018, 22:28

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

I looked at some more of your morgues. For instance: this is a DE caster of Sif with a shield. From the notes, it seems you started training shields in Snake (probably because you found a +4 shield of protection), only trained shields to 10 until Zot. The penalty with 10 shields was probably not crippling.

I don't know if training the shields was good in this case, but I suppose in certain cases it may be ok. I'll try it out next time I get the chance. My usual attitude is to simply disregard all shields on a DE.

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Post Wednesday, 25th July 2018, 01:41

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

It seems to me that in 2 out of 3 games (including the important Vehumet case), you didn't wear a shield.

I mean, the greater takeaway is that most of my winning DE's had full sized shields, not counting my current game which also does. Those 2 recent games I probably should have had a shield too.

From the notes, it seems you started training shields in Snake (probably because you found a +4 shield of protection), only trained shields to 10 until Zot. The penalty with 10 shields was probably not crippling

Yes, also my current character won't need 15 shields skill to comfortably cast spells; in fact, my current character can technically cast all his spells at 10% or less fail with just 5 shield skill. Vehumet helps here as does having 39 int.
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Post Wednesday, 25th July 2018, 04:39

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Berder

If EV is just a bit weaker than SH vs Vault Guard, I will prefer EV because in Vaults it is typical to be attacked more than once per turn due to abundance of monsters with ranged attack. If I have just a single monster attacking my DE, I don't care much about type of my defense, the monster will be dead (or avoided) anyway.

PS. Don't get me wrong, I love shields on casters, just not a regular one on DE with 7 Fighting.
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Post Wednesday, 25th July 2018, 05:10

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

The main issue is that you can't get as many points of EV as you can of SH. SH is actually okay with multiple attacks/turn, as long as it's only two or three.
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Post Wednesday, 25th July 2018, 08:16

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Berder wrote:The main issue is that you can't get as many points of EV as you can of SH.


As DE? I have 2 online wins, both happened when displayed SH value was doubled.
15 runes:
  Code:
HP 195/195 (196) AC 39     Str 10      XL: 27
MP  50/50        EV 38     Int 35      God: Vehumet [******]
Gold 13113       SH 16     Dex 21      Spells: 14 memorised,  0 levels left

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Sandman25/m ... 024757.txt
That would be SH 8 now.

3 runes:
  Code:
HP 180/180 (181) AC 28     Str  9      XL: 27
MP  47/50        EV 37     Int 29      God: Kikubaaqudgha [******]
Gold 6274        SH 14     Dex 20      Spells: 18 memorised,  2 levels left

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Sandman25/m ... 032132.txt
That would be SH 7 now.

Do you think it is possible to reach that high SH as I have EV?

SH is actually okay with multiple attacks/turn, as long as it's only two or three.


Really? I believe even second attack gives a penalty to SH, was it changed recently?
Anyway, a buckler does not do much and regular shield is not that compatible with spell casting for primary caster.

Edit. I do have experience with Na too (large shield with 15 skill levels, 0 Dodging, inspired by NaWn streaks):
  Code:
Health: 285/285    AC: 59    Str: 29    XL:     27
Magic:  35/35      EV:  4    Int:  9    God:    Okawaru [******]
Gold:   3549       SH: 29    Dex: 12    Spells: 25/43 levels left

https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/Sand ... 052053.txt
DE caster should not be played like Na in plate armour IMHO.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
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Post Wednesday, 25th July 2018, 08:43

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

no comments on whether or not it's a good idea, but a defe of vehumet can wear a large shield in lair with minimal problem:
  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.21.0 (tiles) character file.

defe the Arsonist (Deep Elf Fire Elementalist)     Turns: 19487, Time: 00:44:33

Health: 78/78      AC: 13    Str:  5    XL:     13   Next: 6%
Magic:  46/52      EV: 14    Int: 26    God:    Vehumet [****..]
Gold:   576        SH:  9    Dex: 17    Spells: 8/30 levels left

rFire    + . .     SeeInvis .   a - staff of power {!a}
rCold    . . .     Gourm    .   H - +0 large shield
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   P - +2 robe {rF+}
rPois    .         Spirit   .   R - +2 helmet
rElec    .         Reflect  .   (no cloak)
rCorr    .         Harm     .   D - +2 pair of gloves
MR       +....                  x - +2 pair of boots {Fly}
Stlth    +++.......             (no amulet)
HPRegen  0.23/turn              q - +2 ring of dexterity
MPRegen  0.33/turn              y - ring of magical power

   Skills:
 - Level 8.1 Fighting
 - Level 9.1 Dodging
 - Level 4.0 Stealth
 + Level 9.4 Spellcasting
 - Level 12.0 Conjurations
 - Level 12.0 Fire Magic
 - Level 9.0 Evocations


You have 8 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      #####        1%          1    None
b - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      ######       1%          2    None
c - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      ######..     1%          3    None
d - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      ######..     2%          4    #......
e - Fireball              Conj/Fire      ######....   7%          5    ####...
f - Inner Flame           Hex/Fire       #####...     9%          3    None
g - Iskenderun's Mystic   Conj           ######..     2%          4    #......

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 |
---------------+----------------------------------------+-----
Conjurations   |  2     3  4  5     6  8  9 11 12       | 12.0
Fire Magic     |        4     5     6  8 10 11 12       | 12.0
Dodging        |              3  4        6     9       |  9.1
Spellcasting   |                    4  5        7  8  9 |  9.4
Evocations     |                       1  3  5  6  9    |  9.0
Stealth        |                       3  4             |  4.0
Fighting       |                                4  8    |  8.1

For this message the author CanOfWorms has received thanks: 2
bel, Wahaha

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4339

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Wednesday, 25th July 2018, 09:08

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

With no skill in shields and Int just 26???
I am sure it was not possible before so I believe it is related to the latest changes for spell failure rate.
Devs have broken crawl, now every caster will use at least regular shield :(
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Dungeon Master

Posts: 620

Joined: Thursday, 23rd October 2014, 03:08

Post Wednesday, 25th July 2018, 09:30

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

with no sources of wizardry, that deep elf would have a ~60% failure rate for fireball (regular shield raises it to ~20%), that's how strong vehumet's wizardry is. the spell rate change was also added after 0.21 so it has no impact here

For this message the author CanOfWorms has received thanks: 2
duvessa, VeryAngryFelid

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Wednesday, 25th July 2018, 14:17

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
Berder wrote:The main issue is that you can't get as many points of EV as you can of SH.


As DE? I have 2 online wins, both happened when displayed SH value was doubled.
15 runes:
  Code:
HP 195/195 (196) AC 39     Str 10      XL: 27
MP  50/50        EV 38     Int 35      God: Vehumet [******]
Gold 13113       SH 16     Dex 21      Spells: 14 memorised,  0 levels left

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Sandman25/m ... 024757.txt
That would be SH 8 now.

My meaning was that you can't get as many *additional, cost-effective* points of EV through training as you can of SH, on the limited XP budget of a normal 3 rune game. You can get 9-12 points of SH beyond the points for a buckler, more cost-effectively than you can get the same number of points of EV.

SH is actually okay with multiple attacks/turn, as long as it's only two or three.

Really? I believe even second attack gives a penalty to SH, was it changed recently?

The penalty is based on successful blocks, not number of attacks. Blocks after the first successful block are done at a penalty to SH, and it's actually not that large a penalty. The penalty is only really severe after the second successful block. If you're getting attacked 3x/turn, you're probably only blocking 1x/turn or 2x/turn most of the time (even if there was no penalty you'd be unlikely to block 3x). Since the penalty is not severe on the second block, you are not too much affected by the penalty while being attacked 3x/turn.
Last edited by Berder on Wednesday, 25th July 2018, 14:36, edited 1 time in total.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4339

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Wednesday, 25th July 2018, 14:36

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Berder wrote:My meaning was that you can't get as many *additional, cost-effective* points of EV through training as you can of SH, on the limited XP budget of a normal 3 rune game. You can get 9-12 points of SH beyond the points for a buckler, more cost-effectively than you can get the same number of points of EV.


I guess you missed my second character which had 3 runes with AC 28/EV 37. Would a shield add much to it? I don't think so.
For the record, I am playing a character who switched from robe to plate armour with shield of gong after 2 runes and I see how SH is not that great against multiple monsters despite I have much higher AC now.

The second block, not the second attack, gives a penalty to SH, and it's actually not that large a penalty. The penalty is only really severe on the third block.


Of course I meant blocks because unblocked attacks are irrelevant here.
So, as long as you are blocking only one or two attacks/turn, which means you can be attacked two or three times/turn, you're getting most of the benefit of SH.


You worded it in some funny way IMHO, sounds like SH is great when it does not block attacks because it tries the most in this case :)
I don't see how SH is great if it is unlikely to block more than 1 attack because that's what I want from defense (as I wrote above dying to a single monster is not typical in Vaults) and that's how AC/EV work.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Wednesday, 25th July 2018, 14:42

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
Berder wrote:My meaning was that you can't get as many *additional, cost-effective* points of EV through training as you can of SH, on the limited XP budget of a normal 3 rune game. You can get 9-12 points of SH beyond the points for a buckler, more cost-effectively than you can get the same number of points of EV.


I guess you missed my second character which had 3 runes with AC 28/EV 37. Would a shield add much to it? I don't think so.

That character is wearing equipment of EV+8 and has the Agile mutation. Evasion from those sources don't count for our purposes. Yes, a shield would still add a lot to that, though you have unusually high defenses for a deep elf and therefore don't need it as much.

You worded it in some funny way IMHO, sounds like SH is great when it does not block attacks because it tries the most in this case :)
I don't see how SH is great if it is unlikely to block more than 1 attack because that's what I want from defense (as I wrote above dying to a single monster is not typical in Vaults) and that's how AC/EV work.

I edited to reword it a way that might be more clear. SH CAN block 2 attacks/turn at almost full efficiency, not just 1, and this means it's almost as useful when fighting 3 enemies at once (blocks almost as much damage per enemy) as it is when fighting a single enemy.

edit: for instructive reference if the OP is still reading, this is my current DEAE character after finishing vaults4 and elf3, about to do depths. I've abandoned lightning bolt in favor of bolt of cold, because lightning bolt is too loud and inaccurate. I've also been using airstrike and orb of destruction on resistant enemies. I just memorized glaciate, which I've been training towards through Shoals, Vaults, and Elf. I'll probably switch to a robe for a while so I can cast glaciate, until I have glaciate trained enough to cast it in ring mail. This character has been pretty easy.
  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.22-a0-834-g05cf915 (webtiles) character file.

Berder the Ruinous (Deep Elf Air Elementalist)     Turns: 57737, Time: 03:43:04

Health: 125/125    AC: 21    Str:  8    XL:     22   Next: 9%
Magic:  46/46      EV: 17    Int: 42    God:    Vehumet [******]
Gold:   1952       SH: 13    Dex: 15    Spells: 3/57 levels left

rFire    . . .     SeeInvis .   c - staff of conjuration
rCold    + . .     Gourm    .   O - +0 shield {AC+3}
rNeg     + . .     Faith    .   U - +4 ring mail {MR+}
rPois    .         Spirit   .   T - +0 helmet of the Slug {rN+ Int+7}
rElec    .         Reflect  .   E - +2 cloak {+Inv}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   L - +1 pair of gloves
MR       +++..                  J - +2 pair of boots {run}
Stlth    ++........             k - amulet of magic regeneration
HPRegen  0.30/turn              m - ring of Mirth {rF+ Str+3 Int+4 Stlth+}
MPRegen  0.55/turn              b - ring of ice

@: quick
A: no striking features
}: 2/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled
a: Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility


You are on level 3 of the Elven Halls.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 39 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth and Volcano.

You have collected 4703 gold pieces.
You have spent 2751 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 v - the +1 robe of the True Pharaoh {rF+ Dex+3}
   (You took it off a deep elf mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
 E - a +2 cloak of invisibility (worn)
 J - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 L - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
 O - a +0 shield of protection (worn)
 T - the +0 helmet of the Slug (worn) {rN+ Int+7}
   (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+7).
   It protects you from negative energy.
 U - a +4 ring mail of magic resistance (worn)
Magical Staves
 c - an uncursed staff of conjuration (weapon)
 j - an uncursed staff of air
 G - an uncursed staff of energy
 V - an uncursed staff of cold
Jewellery
 b - a ring of ice (right hand)
 k - an amulet of magic regeneration (around neck)
 l - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion
 m - the ring of Mirth (left hand) {rF+ Str+3 Int+4 Stlth+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   [ring of stealth]
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It protects you from fire.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 o - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 R - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
Wands
 q - a wand of scattershot (6)
 u - a wand of digging (25)
 D - a wand of iceblast (24)
 K - a wand of acid (7)
 M - a wand of disintegration (62)
 Q - a wand of clouds (5)
Scrolls
 g - 16 scrolls of remove curse
 n - 3 scrolls of fog
 r - 15 scrolls of teleportation
 t - 4 scrolls of blinking
 x - 6 scrolls of amnesia
 y - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
 C - 6 scrolls of identify
 N - 3 scrolls of vulnerability
 S - 2 scrolls of summoning
 X - 2 scrolls of fear
Potions
 d - 3 potions of magic
 e - a potion of cancellation
 f - 7 potions of might
 h - 7 potions of brilliance
 i - 6 potions of agility
 s - 10 potions of flight
 w - 5 potions of heal wounds
 z - 8 potions of curing
 B - 2 potions of ambrosia
 H - 4 potions of mutation
 I - 4 potions of resistance
 P - a potion of haste
Miscellaneous
 p - a lamp of fire
 A - a lightning rod (4/4)
 F - a phantom mirror
 W - 4 boxes of beasts
 Y - a phial of floods (inert)
Comestibles
 a - 4 chunks of flesh
 Z - 54 rations


   Skills:
 - Level 9.2 Fighting
 - Level 12.8 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 15.0 Shields
 + Level 18.0 Spellcasting
 + Level 21.2 Conjurations
 - Level 5.0 Charms
 - Level 5.0 Necromancy
 + Level 18.8 Ice Magic
 - Level 10.1 Air Magic
 - Level 9.9 Evocations


You have 3 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Shock                 Conj/Air       ####         0%          1    None
b - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       #######.     1%          2    None
c - Airstrike             Air            #######...   1%          4    None
d - Lightning Bolt        Conj/Air       ########..   1%          5    None
e - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      ########     1%          3    None
f - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ########     1%          3    None
g - Freezing Cloud        Conj/Ice/Air   #########.   1%          6    None
h - Orb of Destruction    Conj           ########..   1%          7    None
i - Iskenderun's Battles  Conj/Chrm      ########     1%          5    None
j - Bolt of Cold          Conj/Ice       #########.   1%          6    None
k - Glaciate              Conj/Ice       #########.   16%         9    #####..
r - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ######....   1%          3    None

Your spell library contains the following spells:

 Spells                   Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
 Magic Dart               Conj           ####         0%          1    None
 Fireball                 Conj/Fire      ########..   1%          5    None
 Apportation              Tloc           #####.       1%          1    None
 Bolt of Magma            Conj/Fire/Erth #######...   1%          5    None
 Slow                     Hex            #####...     3%          2    None
 Invisibility             Hex            #####...     97%         6    None
 Throw Flame              Conj/Fire      ######       1%          2    None
 Ring of Flames           Chrm/Fire      ######....   99%         7    None
 Venom Bolt               Conj/Pois      ########..   1%          5    None
 Summon Small Mammal      Summ           ####         1%          1    None
 Bolt of Draining         Conj/Necr      ########..   1%          5    None
 Blink                    Tloc           N/A          3%          2    None
 Animate Dead             Necr           N/A          2%          4    None
 Pain                     Necr           ####         1%          1    None
 Animate Skeleton         Necr           N/A          1%          1    None
 Vampiric Draining        Necr           ######....   1%          3    None
 Sticky Flame             Conj/Fire      ########     1%          4    None
 Summon Ice Beast         Ice/Summ       ########     1%          4    None
 Call Imp                 Summ           #####...     3%          2    None
 Dispel Undead            Necr           ######..     8%          5    None
 Sting                    Conj/Pois      ####         1%          1    None
 Sublimation of Blood     Necr           ######....   1%          2    None
 Tukima's Dance           Hex            #####...     6%          3    None
 Corpse Rot               Necr           N/A          1%          2    None
 Iron Shot                Conj/Erth      ########..   1%          6    None
 Stone Arrow              Conj/Erth      ######       1%          3    None
 Agony                    Necr           ######..     8%          5    None
 Flame Tongue             Conj/Fire      #####        1%          1    None
 Passwall                 Tmut/Erth      #####...     3%          2    None
 Call Canine Familiar     Summ           #####...     6%          3    None
 Summon Butterflies       Summ           #####...     1%          1    None
 Static Discharge         Conj/Air       ########     0%          3    None
 Alistair's Intoxication  Tmut/Pois      #####...     50%         5    None
 Lee's Rapid Deconstruct  Erth           #####.....   16%         5    None
 Sandblast                Erth           #####.       1%          1    None
 Conjure Ball Lightning   Conj/Air       ########..   1%          6    None
 Excruciating Wounds      Chrm/Necr      ######....   8%          5    None
 Petrify                  Tmut/Erth      #####...     21%         4    None
 Summon Hydra             Summ           #####.....   100%        7    None
 Inner Flame              Hex/Fire       #####...     1%          3    None
 Fulminant Prism          Conj/Hex       ########..   1%          4    None
 Searing Ray              Conj           ######       0%          2    None
 Summon Lightning Spire   Summ/Air       ######..     2%          4    None
 Summon Guardian Golem    Hex/Summ       #####...     6%          3    None
 Spellforged Servitor     Conj/Summ      ########..   6%          7    None
 Summon Mana Viper        Hex/Summ       #####...     50%         5    None
 Lesser Beckoning         Tloc           #####.....   6%          3    None
 Poisonous Vapours        Pois/Air       ######       1%          2    None
 Ignition                 Fire           #####.....   100%        8    ###....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:4            Lair (6/6) D:8
 Shoals (4/4) Lair:3        Snake (4/4) Lair:3        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (2/2) D:10            Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (4/5) D:13
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:2     Depths (0/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4 :   D:8 [   D:12 [   D:15 }   Orc:1 [   Orc:2 ?[(!   Elf:3 [
Shoals:2 }   Snake:1 ==}   Vaults:1 ?   Vaults:3 }   Vaults:4 *

Portals:
Hell: Lair:6

Annotations:
D:1 Terence
D:10 necromuncher's ghost, journeyman GrBe
Lair:4 pmoppi's ghost, journeyman KoVM
Shoals:3 Cashryjaa's ghost, adept TeBe

Message History

You finish memorising. Spell assigned to 'k'.
Okay, then.
Wear which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You start removing your armour.
You continue taking off the +1 robe of the True Pharaoh {rF+ Dex+3}. x4
All of the chunks of flesh in your inventory have rotted away.
You finish taking off the +1 robe of the True Pharaoh {rF+ Dex+3}.
You start putting on your armour.
You continue putting on your +4 ring mail of magic resistance. x5
You finish putting on your +4 ring mail of magic resistance.
You feel resistant to hostile enchantments.
Things that are here:
a long sword of slicing; a rapier; a chain mail
Items here: )) [ ÷
a short sword; a chain mail; a long sword; an elf skeleton
Things that are here:
a long sword of slicing; a rapier; a chain mail
Things that are here:
a dagger of speed; a leather armour
Items here: ))))) [[
Things that are here:
a rapier x2; a chain mail
Items here: ( ))))))))) [[[[[
Okay, then.
You see here a rapier.
You see here the ring "Xudghale" {*Tele rElec SInv}.
You see here the ring "Xudghale" {*Tele rElec SInv}.
You see here a rapier.
Items here: ( ))))))))) [[[[[
Items here: ))))) [[
Things that are here:
a dagger of speed; a leather armour
Things that are here:
a long sword of slicing; a rapier; a chain mail
Items here: )) [ ÷
a short sword; a chain mail; a long sword; an elf skeleton
Items here: ( ))) [
an arrow; a rapier x2; a leather armour; a long sword
You see here 2 arrows.
Things that are here:
a short sword x2; a leather armour
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
As you open the door, it creaks loudly!
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
A long sword of electrocution comes into view.
Unknown command.
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
c - an uncursed staff of conjuration (weapon)
Unknown command.
Casting: Bolt of Cold (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Bolt of Cold (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - long sword of electrocution
Aim: a long sword of electrocution (resting)
You feel a strong surge of power!
The bolt of cold hits the long sword of electrocution.
The long sword of electrocution resists.
The long sword of electrocution is heavily damaged.
Casting: Bolt of Cold (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Bolt of Cold (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - long sword of electrocution
Aim: a long sword of electrocution (heavily damaged)
You feel a strong surge of power!
The bolt of cold hits the long sword of electrocution.
The long sword of electrocution resists.
The long sword of electrocution is almost destroyed.
The long sword of electrocution barely misses you.
Casting: Bolt of Cold (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Bolt of Cold (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - long sword of electrocution
Aim: a long sword of electrocution (almost destroyed)
You feel a strong surge of power!
The bolt of cold misses the long sword of electrocution.
You block the long sword of electrocution's attack.
Casting: Bolt of Cold (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Airstrike (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Dir - move target cursor, f/p - long sword of electrocution
Aim: a long sword of electrocution (almost destroyed)
The air twists around and violently strikes the long sword of electrocution!
The long sword of electrocution falls from the air.
Vehumet accepts your kill.
There is an open door here.
You see here a long sword of electrocution.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You now have 1952 gold pieces (gained 22).
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
As you open the door, it creaks loudly!
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
A deep elf mage comes into view. It is wielding a long sword.
The deep elf mage shouts!
Casting: Airstrike (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Bolt of Cold (safe; 1% risk of failure)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - deep elf mage
Aim: a deep elf mage, wielding a long sword and wearing a leather armour
You feel a strong surge of power!
The bolt of cold hits the deep elf mage.
You kill the deep elf mage!
Vehumet accepts your kill.
You feel your power returning.
There is an open door here.
Things that are here:
a long sword; a leather armour; an elf corpse
You butcher the elf corpse.
a - 4 chunks of flesh
Things that are here:
a long sword; a leather armour
There isn't anything to butcher here.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
You see here a longbow.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You found a teleport trap!
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
You see here a scimitar of freezing.
Items here: )) [[
a short sword; a scimitar of holy wrath; a chain mail; a buckler
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
Things that are here:
a short sword; a leather armour
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
Key pressed, stopping explore.
Unknown command.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Unknown command.
Saving game... please wait.
No command named 'CMD_PRAY'
Welcome back, Berder the Deep Elf Air Elementalist.
Vehumet says: Let it end in hellfire!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.

...#   #....### #.#   ##..PPP..##
...#####......# #.#   #...PPP...#
...+...'....### #.#   ##..PPP..##
...#####..#'##  #.#   ##.......#
)..#   #####.####'#####'#.....##
..'##      ##'#....)##.##.....#
.##.####    ##.......'###'#####
####'#.### ##...|.....###.#
## #.....###....@......##.#
.###.....'.'..........###'###
..##.....###..........#.....#
...###.#'###.........##.....##
...# ####.##.........#.......#
...#    ##.##........#.......#
...#     ##.##.......#.......#
...#####  ##.##.....###.....##
..##.<.### ##.########'.....#


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Boris (Vaults:3)
  Sojobo (Vaults:3)
  Vashnia (Snake:3)
  Xtahua (Vaults:4)
  A lich (Vaults:4)
  Asterion (Vaults:2)
  2 deep elf blademasters (Elf:3)
  2 deep elf master archers (Elf:3)
  A sphinx (Vaults:4)
  Donald (Elf:3)
  2 tengu reavers (Vaults:3)
  8 nagarajas
  3 frost giants
  A revenant (Vaults:2)
  5 fire giants
  8 deep elf sorcerers
  An orc warlord (Orc:2)
  Aizul (Shoals:1)
  2 deep elf elementalists (Elf:3)
  7 vault wardens
  2 vampire knights (Vaults:2)
  12 ironheart preservers
  10 deep elf demonologists
  7 stone giants
  A minotaur (Lab)
  A dire elephant (D:15)
  4 deep elf annihilators
  A merfolk javelineer (Shoals:4)
  5 merfolk impalers (Shoals:4)
  10 deep elf death magi
  2 ettins (Vaults:4)
  2 fire dragons (Vaults:2)
  12 yaktaur captains
  2 deep elf high priests (Elf:3)
  3 great orbs of eyes
  13 ogre magi
  3 ice dragons
  14 naga warriors
  3 vault guards
  2 rakshasas
  15 anacondas
  10 hydras
  5 centaur warriors
  4 alligator snapping turtles (Shoals:4)
  29 dancing weapons
  4 satyrs
  3 merfolk aquamancers (Shoals:4)
  5 merfolk avatars
  5 death knights
  18 death yaks
  32 two-headed ogres
  A queen ant (Lair:2)
  A deep troll shaman (Vaults:4)
  16 naga sharpshooters
  6 shock serpents
  2 orc high priests (Orc:2)
  Sonja (D:12)
  15 deep elf knights
  A sixfirhy (Lair:6)
  A shadow wraith (Vaults:4)
  3 salamander mystics
  3 skeletal warriors
  13 sea snakes
  6 unseen horrors
  8 naga ritualists
  3 wizards
  A flayed ghost (Vaults:3)
  4 deep trolls (Vaults:4)
  16 deep elf archers
  A glowing orange brain (Vaults:3)
  A phantasmal warrior (D:13)
  17 orc knights
  12 mana vipers
  9 ironbrand convokers
  A harpy (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  5 oklob plants
  16 harpies
  19 fauns
  8 orc sorcerers
  59 deep elf magi
  35 ugly things
  8 salamanders
  12 cyclopes
  A salamander (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  13 manticores
  3 elephants (Lair:2)
  4 centaur zombies
  9 guardian serpents
  10 water nymphs
  13 vault sentinels
  31 black mambas
  8 merfolk sirens
  A smoke demon (Volcano)
  19 naga magi
  An orange demon (Lair:6)
  11 spiny frogs
  2 gargoyles
  2 efreet
  A hellwing (Lair:6)
  A kobold demonologist (D:14)
  39 yaktaurs
  6 komodo dragons
  A komodo dragon (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  5 rime drakes
  2 guardian mummies (D:14)
  6 freezing wraiths
  4 ice devils (Lair:6)
  7 trolls
  12 merfolk
  6 wind drakes
  4 red devils (Volcano)
  3 small abominations (Elf:3)
  3 hornets
  2 jumping spiders (shapeshifter)
  19 slime creatures
  3 polar bears
  2 wind drakes (shapeshifter)
  6 dream sheep (Lair:5)
  14 hippogriffs
  11 blink frogs
  6 snapping turtles
  Sigmund (D:2)
  A centaur simulacrum (D:15)
  9 water elementals
  A spriggan (D:9)
  3 air elementals
  5 wyverns
  6 redbacks (Lab)
  A tarantella (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  4 wraiths
  4 shadows
  46 yaks
  A steam dragon (D:10)
  6 basilisks
  10 hungry ghosts
  4 fire elementals
  A yaktaur simulacrum (Vaults:1)
  59 nagas
  7 wargs
  5 soldier ants (Lair:2)
  4 acid dragons
  Duvessa (D:7)
  24 water moccasins
  6 hell hounds
  8 porcupines
  49 orc warriors
  6 ice beasts
  An ettin simulacrum (Vaults:3)
  A hornet zombie (D:14)
  5 sky beasts
  A sky beast (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  2 black bears
  A necrophage (D:13)
  A black bear (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  An eye of draining (D:12)
  4 boggarts (Vaults:1)
  30 ogres
  4 phantoms
  A wolf (Lair:6)
  9 centaurs
  9 crocodiles
  15 bullfrogs
  3 big kobolds
  2 gnoll sergeants
  Dowan (D:7)
  4 earth elementals
  2 wyvern skeletons
  A water moccasin zombie (D:9)
  3 scorpions
  4 killer bees (D:12)
  2 howler monkeys
  20 wights
  An electric eel (Lair:5)
  9 crimson imps
  3 human simulacra
  12 hounds
  4 bullfrog zombies
  4 jellies
  6 bullfrog skeletons
  26 orc priests
  Crazy Yiuf (D:5)
  16 orc wizards
  3 centaur skeletons
  2 iguanas
  14 worker ants
  2 mummies (D:14)
  Robin (D:3)
  16 gnolls
  15 adders
  6 shadow imps
  2 white imps (D:7)
  An ooze (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  2 adder skeletons (D:6)
  4 worms
  3 dart slugs
  5 leopard geckos
  114 orcs
  3 giant cockroaches
  12 goblins
  14 hobgoblins
  15 jackals
  26 kobolds
  4 quokkas
  A ball python (D:1)
  6 bats
  6 frilled lizards
  A jackal skeleton (D:4)
  7 rats
  2 crawling corpses (Elf:3)
  2 fungi
  6 plants
  A withered plant (D:14)
1661 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A naga warrior (Snake:4)
  An ugly thing (Vaults:1)
  A black mamba (Snake:1)
  A blink frog (Lair:5)
4 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A fire dragon (Vaults:2)
  A deep troll (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  A flayed ghost (Vaults:2)
  An ironbrand convoker (Vaults:2)
  An orc wizard (D:11)
  6 fungi
  14 plants
25 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1690 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Berder the Deep Elf Air Elementalist began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 6/6
   202 | D:1      | Reached skill level 2 in Conjurations
   222 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 2/8
   733 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Conjurations
   952 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 6/9
   962 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness
  1492 | D:2      | Noticed Terence
  1731 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 24/24 MP: 3/10
  2147 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Conjurations
  2605 | D:2      | Noticed Sigmund
  2727 | D:3      | Learned a level 4 spell: Airstrike
  2735 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 28/28 MP: 9/11
  2783 | D:3      | Noticed Robin
  2797 | D:3      | Killed Robin
  3873 | D:4      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
  3873 | D:4      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  4050 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 32/32 MP: 5/14
  4141 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
  4153 | D:4      | Learned a level 5 spell: Lightning Bolt
  4198 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4224 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4469 | D:4      | Found Sidwoduf's Book Shoppe.
  4597 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4794 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Air Magic
  4802 | D:5      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  4805 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  4854 | D:5      | Noticed a sky beast
  4857 | D:5      | Killed a sky beast
  4857 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/36 MP: 3/17
  4950 | D:5      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  5096 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Conjurations
  5293 | D:5      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  5516 | D:5      | Found a runed door.
  5763 | D:5      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  5766 | D:5      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  6014 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/41 MP: 15/20
  6132 | D:6      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  6218 | D:6      | Reached skill level 7 in Conjurations
  7255 | D:7      | Noticed Duvessa
  7255 | D:7      | Noticed Dowan
  7317 | D:7      | Killed Duvessa
  7328 | D:7      | Killed Dowan
  7968 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Conjurations
  7974 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 41/45 MP: 13/23
  8202 | D:8      | Found Wecoozo's Antique Armour Emporium.
  8212 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
  8221 | D:8      | Killed a death yak
  8229 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
  8230 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
  8233 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
  8669 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  8683 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  8795 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Conjurations
  8915 | D:8      | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
  9173 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
  9177 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
  9326 | D:2      | Killed Sigmund
  9338 | D:2      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  9348 | D:2      | Became a worshipper of Vehumet
  9583 | D:8      | Killed a death yak
  9583 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 53/53 MP: 24/26
  9586 | D:8      | Killed a death yak
  9587 | D:8      | Killed a death yak
  9587 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  9736 | D:8      | Bought a pair of embroidered boots for 217 gold pieces
  9746 | D:8      | Identified a +2 pair of boots of running (You bought it in a shop on level 8 of the Dungeon)
  9749 | D:8      | Bought a smoking ring mail for 261 gold pieces
  9760 | D:8      | Identified the +2 ring mail of Xom's Reproof {rC- rN+++ Dex+3 SInv} (You bought it in a shop on level 8 of the Dungeon)
  9818 | D:9      | Noticed a gargoyle
  9820 | D:9      | Killed a gargoyle
 10118 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 10121 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 10121 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations
 10173 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 10192 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 10192 | D:9      | Reached * piety under Vehumet
 10192 | D:9      | Offered knowledge of Flame Tongue by Vehumet.
 10192 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 57/61 MP: 2/28
 10552 | D:9      | Found the +5 scythe "Finisher" {speed, Str+3}
 10898 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 10906 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 11030 | D:9      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
 11248 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 11248 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 11401 | D:10     | Found a runed gate.
 11401 | D:10     | Found a runed gate.
 11408 | D:10     | Found a runed gate.
 11411 | D:10     | Noticed necromuncher's ghost (journeyman GrBe)
 11419 | D:10     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 11422 | D:10     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 12030 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Air Magic
 12113 | D:10     | Reached ** piety under Vehumet
 12114 | D:10     | Offered knowledge of Sting by Vehumet.
 12128 | D:10     | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 12614 | D:10     | Got a heavily runed helmet
 12620 | D:10     | Identified the +0 helmet of the Slug {rN+ Int+7} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 12693 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 12749 | Lair:1   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 12796 | Lair:1   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 13082 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 70/70 MP: 19/30
 13340 | Lair:1   | Offered knowledge of Throw Frost by Vehumet.
 13655 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 14190 | Lair:2   | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 14223 | Lab      | Entered a labyrinth
 14399 | Lab      | Reached *** piety under Vehumet
 14404 | Lab      | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 14489 | Lab      | Got a fine leather armour
 14960 | Lab      | Identified the +2 leather armour of Vojodwul {rN+ Stlth+} (You found it in a labyrinth)
 15074 | Lab      | Noticed a minotaur
 15077 | Lab      | Killed a minotaur
 15077 | Lab      | Offered knowledge of Inner Flame by Vehumet.
 15098 | Lab      | Got a bloodstained shield
 15110 | Lab      | Identified the Collected Works on Combat Magic and Air
 15130 | Lab      | Identified the cursed -3 shield of Kajass {Str+4 Dex+3 Stlth-} (You took it off a minotaur in a labyrinth)
 15189 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame
 15193 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud
 15200 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 6 spell: Freezing Cloud
 15518 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic
 15864 | Lair:2   | Reached **** piety under Vehumet
 16085 | Lair:2   | Noticed a queen ant
 16095 | Lair:2   | Killed a queen ant
 16360 | Lair:2   | Got a scorched hand crossbow
 16361 | Lair:2   | Identified the +4 hand crossbow of Armageddon {elec, rC+ MR++ Int-5 Dex+3} (You found it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)
 16393 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 16420 | Lair:2   | Offered knowledge of Throw Icicle by Vehumet.
 16603 | Lair:3   | Noticed a five-headed hydra
 16608 | Lair:3   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 16612 | Lair:3   | Killed a five-headed hydra
 16612 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 76/76 MP: 25/31
 17269 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 17300 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 17722 | Lair:4   | Found a transporter.
 17725 | Lair:4   | Noticed pmoppi's ghost (journeyman KoVM)
 17749 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 11 in Conjurations
 18007 | Lair:4   | Found a transporter.
 18596 | Lair:4   | Learned a level 7 spell: Orb of Destruction
 18641 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 12 in Conjurations
 18739 | Lair:5   | Found a dark tunnel.
 18762 | Volcano  | Entered a volcano
 19353 | Lair:5   | Reached ***** piety under Vehumet
 19356 | Lair:5   | Offered knowledge of Force Lance by Vehumet.
 19601 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 13 in Conjurations
 20309 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 20313 | Lair:5   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 20592 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 20608 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 81/82 MP: 8/33
 21168 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 14 in Conjurations
 21647 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 15 in Conjurations
 21717 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 15 in Spellcasting
 22553 | Lair:6   | Offered knowledge of Ozocubu's Refrigeration by Vehumet.
 22647 | Lair:6   | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 22653 | Lair:6   | Found a gateway to Hell.
 22967 | D:8      | Bought a steaming shield for 275 gold pieces
 22977 | D:8      | Identified the +8 shield "Ditz" {*Slow rPois rC- rN++} (You bought it in a shop on level 8 of the Dungeon)
 23048 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 23048 | Orc:1    | Found Temoidif's Antique Armour Boutique.
 23144 | Orc:1    | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 23296 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 23451 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 23643 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 23659 | Orc:2    | Found Boticothri's Distillery.
 23878 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 24152 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 24164 | Orc:2    | Found Votanu Idio's Magic Scroll Shoppe.
 24171 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 28 gold pieces
 24193 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of blinking for 105 gold pieces
 24218 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 24435 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 24492 | Orc:2    | Offered knowledge of Poison Arrow by Vehumet.
 24606 | Orc:2    | Noticed an orc warlord
 24752 | Orc:2    | Killed an orc warlord
 24961 | Orc:1    | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 25292 | Orc:1    | Reached XP level 15. HP: 76/88 MP: 29/36
 25417 | Orc:1    | Learned a level 5 spell: Iskenderun's Battlesphere
 25512 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 25569 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 25569 | Orc:2    | Found Ocvazop's Antique Armour Shop.
 25572 | Orc:2    | Found Ziannack's Antique Weapon Boutique.
 25693 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 25802 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 70 gold pieces
 25802 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of magic for 112 gold pieces
 25802 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of haste for 140 gold pieces
 25877 | Orc:2    | Bought 2 scrolls of summoning for 266 gold pieces
 25881 | Orc:2    | Upgraded the game from 0.22-a0-815-gb582571 to 0.22-a0-830-gf552829
 26861 | D:11     | Offered knowledge of Conjure Ball Lightning by Vehumet.
 26926 | D:11     | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
 27364 | D:12     | Noticed Sonja
 27368 | D:12     | Killed Sonja
 27749 | D:12     | Found Amnon's Armour Emporium.
 28540 | D:13     | Found a runed door.
 28785 | D:13     | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Cold by Vehumet.
 28996 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 30693 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 30870 | D:15     | Reached skill level 10 in Shields
 31439 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 31527 | D:15     | Found Razosie's Gadget Boutique.
 31656 | D:15     | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
 32346 | D:8      | Bought an embroidered robe for 107 gold pieces
 32455 | Snake:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit
 32497 | Snake:1  | Reached XP level 16. HP: 71/92 MP: 29/37
 32685 | Snake:1  | Found Ysuthil's Jewellery Emporium.
 33290 | Snake:1  | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Fire by Vehumet.
 33352 | Snake:1  | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
 33445 | Snake:1  | Found Viwk's Gadget Boutique.
 33445 | Snake:1  | Found Veniejyit's Jewellery Emporium.
 33460 | Snake:1  | Bought the ring of Mirth {rF+ Str+3 Int+4 Stlth+} for 739 gold pieces
 33703 | Snake:2  | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy
 34704 | Snake:2  | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
 35889 | Snake:3  | Reached skill level 5 in Necromancy
 36411 | Snake:3  | Reached ****** piety under Vehumet
 36888 | Snake:3  | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Cold by Vehumet.
 36890 | Snake:3  | Noticed Vashnia
 36957 | Snake:2  | Learned a level 6 spell: Bolt of Cold
 37054 | Snake:3  | Killed Vashnia
 37054 | Snake:3  | Reached XP level 17. HP: 97/97 MP: 13/38
 37531 | Snake:4  | Entered Level 4 of the Snake Pit
 40812 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 10 in Ice Magic
 40917 | Snake:4  | Got a serpentine rune of Zot
 40991 | Snake:4  | Upgraded the game from 0.22-a0-830-gf552829 to 0.22-a0-834-g05cf915
 41092 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
 41253 | Shoals:1 | Offered knowledge of Lehudib's Crystal Spear by Vehumet.
 41253 | Shoals:1 | Offered knowledge of Glaciate by Vehumet.
 41253 | Shoals:1 | Offered knowledge of Shatter by Vehumet.
 41564 | Shoals:1 | Noticed Aizul
 41569 | Shoals:1 | Killed Aizul
 42289 | Shoals:2 | Found Homun's Gadget Emporium.
 42349 | Shoals:2 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 105/105 MP: 8/39
 43395 | Shoals:3 | Found a runed gate.
 43396 | Shoals:3 | Found a runed gate.
 43397 | Shoals:3 | Found a runed gate.
 43399 | Shoals:3 | Noticed Cashryjaa's ghost (adept TeBe)
 43557 | Shoals:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Shoals
 44232 | Shoals:4 | Reached skill level 16 in Conjurations
 44468 | Shoals:4 | Got a barnacled rune of Zot
 44949 | Shoals:4 | Got a polished leather armour
 44950 | Shoals:4 | Identified the +2 leather armour of the Endless Orbs {+Inv rC++ Dex+4 Slay-3} (You found it on level 4 of the Shoals)
 45306 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 46554 | Vaults:1 | Found Cahuir's Magic Scroll Boutique.
 46582 | Vaults:1 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 110/110 MP: 25/40
 47537 | Vaults:2 | Noticed Asterion
 47577 | Vaults:2 | Found a flickering gateway to a bazaar.
 47645 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 17 in Conjurations
 47874 | Vaults:2 | Killed Asterion
 48662 | Vaults:2 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 49518 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Shields
 49649 | Vaults:3 | Noticed Boris
 49675 | Vaults:3 | Killed Boris
 49779 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 18 in Conjurations
 49833 | Vaults:3 | Noticed Sojobo
 49838 | Vaults:3 | Killed Sojobo
 50020 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Ice Magic
 50020 | Vaults:3 | Reached XP level 20. HP: 116/116 MP: 36/41
 50820 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 19 in Conjurations
 50952 | Vaults:3 | Found Aluczipn's Gadget Emporium.
 51715 | Vaults:4 | Found Angoumas's Assorted Antiques.
 51723 | Vaults:4 | Bought a glowing shield for 270 gold pieces
 51923 | Vaults:4 | Noticed Xtahua
 51927 | Vaults:4 | Killed Xtahua
 52106 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 20 in Conjurations
 52600 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 120/120 MP: 21/42
 53658 | Elf:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls
 53758 | Elf:1    | Identified Vehumet's Reference Book on Attacks
 55286 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 55286 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 55286 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 55289 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 55290 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 56038 | Elf:3    | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls
 56105 | Elf:3    | Found Hatiopp's Armour Shoppe.
 56121 | Elf:3    | Noticed Donald
 56123 | Elf:3    | Killed Donald
 56161 | Elf:3    | Bought a +1 pair of gloves for 161 gold pieces
 56723 | Elf:3    | Reached skill level 21 in Conjurations
 56778 | Elf:3    | Got a fine brass ring
 56779 | Elf:3    | Identified the ring "Kiexigh" {*Corrode rC+ Int+4 Dex+4} (You took it off a deep elf mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 56903 | Elf:3    | Reached XP level 22. HP: 59/125 MP: 16/45
 57183 | Elf:3    | Found the +1 cloak of Starlight {rElec rC+ EV+4 Stlth--}
 57189 | Elf:3    | Identified the Guide on Torrid Calling
 57306 | Elf:3    | Got a smoking amber ring
 57320 | Elf:3    | Identified the ring "Rukatu" {*Tele *Contam rN+ Str+3 Int+8} (You took it off a deep elf demonologist on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 57342 | Elf:3    | Got a coiled graven amulet
 57343 | Elf:3    | Identified the amulet of Ciut {+Rage rElec rF- Dex+7} (You took it off a deep elf sorcerer on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 57349 | Elf:3    | Got a pitted brass ring
 57350 | Elf:3    | Identified the ring "Xudghale" {*Tele rElec SInv} (You took it off a deep elf mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 57373 | Elf:3    | Got a silken robe
 57384 | Elf:3    | Identified the +1 robe of the True Pharaoh {rF+ Dex+3} (You took it off a deep elf mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 57394 | Elf:3    | Learned a level 9 spell: Glaciate

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Conjurations   |  2  3     4     5  6  8  9 10       13 15          16 18 20 21    | 21.2
Air Magic      |           4     5  6  7  8  9 10                                  | 10.1
Spellcasting   |              4  5  6  8 10 11 12    13 15                   17 18 | 18.0
Fighting       |                          2  4  6  7              9                |  9.2
Dodging        |                          4  6  9 10 11          12                | 12.8
Evocations     |                                   4  5        9                   |  9.9
Ice Magic      |                                   7  8          10 12 15 17 18    | 18.8
Shields        |                                         5 10 12 13 14 15          | 15.0
Charms         |                                            2  5                   |  5.0
Necromancy     |                                               5                   |  5.0
Stealth        |                                                                   |  2.4

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |       |     1 |    11 |    11 |       |       |       |       ||    23
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |     6 |     1 |     1 |       ||     8
       Short sword       |       |       |       |       |    28 |       |       |       ||    28
       Demon trident     |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
 Fire: Hunting sling     |       |       |       |       |    69 |       |       |       ||    69
Throw: Javelin           |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
 Cast: Shock             |    89 |   161 |   197 |   366 |   441 |   107 |     6 |       ||  1367
       Swiftness         |       |     1 |     1 |     1 |     3 |       |       |       ||     6
       Airstrike         |       |     3 |    26 |   108 |   168 |    72 |    67 |     1 ||   445
       Lightning Bolt    |       |       |     7 |    65 |   247 |   113 |     4 |       ||   436
       Freezing Cloud    |       |       |       |       |    54 |    63 |    13 |       ||   130
       Conjure Flame     |       |       |       |       |     9 |       |       |       ||     9
       Orb of Destructio |       |       |       |       |     1 |    31 |    56 |     1 ||    89
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |     2 |       ||     3
       Iskenderun's Batt |       |       |       |       |     4 |    27 |       |       ||    31
       Regeneration      |       |       |       |       |       |    14 |    17 |     3 ||    34
       Bolt of Cold      |       |       |       |       |       |   297 |   433 |    18 ||   748
 Abil: Evoke Invisibilit |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |     1 |    13 |    26 |    14 |       ||    54
       Phial of floods   |       |       |       |       |     1 |     3 |     2 |       ||     6
       Lightning rod     |       |       |       |       |     4 |     9 |     9 |       ||    22
       Lamp of fire      |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
  Use: Scroll            |       |     6 |     7 |     8 |    10 |    12 |     4 |     6 ||    53
       Potion            |       |     1 |     3 |     1 |     1 |     3 |     3 |       ||    12
 Stab: Sleeping          |       |     1 |     1 |       |       |       |       |       ||     2
  Eat: Chunk             |     2 |     8 |     8 |    19 |    36 |    24 |    23 |       ||   120
       Ration            |       |     1 |     2 |     1 |     3 |     6 |     3 |     1 ||    17
Armor: Robe              |     3 |     5 |    23 |    23 |       |       |       |       ||    54
       Ring mail         |       |       |       |    25 |   118 |    43 |    18 |       ||   204
Dodge: Dodged            |    26 |    36 |    53 |   109 |   202 |    86 |    46 |     2 ||   560
Block: Buckler           |       |       |       |     4 |    52 |       |       |       ||    56
       Shield            |       |       |       |       |    32 |   122 |    68 |     2 ||   224

Table legend:
 A = Spawn XP
 B = Non-spawn XP
 C = Spawn XP percentage of total XP
 D = Spawn monster count
 E = Non-spawn monster count
 F = Spawn count percentage of total count
 G = Total turns spent on level

                 A         B        C        D         E        F        G   
            +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------
      Total |       0 |  719536 |   0.0 |       0 |    1655 |   0.0 |   57737
            +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------
        D:1 |       0 |      80 |   0.0 |       0 |      36 |   0.0 |    1851
        D:2 |       0 |     366 |   0.0 |       0 |      32 |   0.0 |     983
        D:3 |       0 |      63 |   0.0 |       0 |      23 |   0.0 |    1041
        D:4 |       0 |     221 |   0.0 |       0 |      11 |   0.0 |     790
        D:5 |       0 |     748 |   0.0 |       0 |      15 |   0.0 |    1252
        D:6 |       0 |     668 |   0.0 |       0 |      17 |   0.0 |     964
        D:7 |       0 |    1304 |   0.0 |       0 |      29 |   0.0 |    1958
        D:8 |       0 |    4337 |   0.0 |       0 |      19 |   0.0 |     884
        D:9 |       0 |    5550 |   0.0 |       0 |      40 |   0.0 |    1655
       D:10 |       0 |    4866 |   0.0 |       0 |      49 |   0.0 |    1519
       D:11 |       0 |    2021 |   0.0 |       0 |      32 |   0.0 |    1250
       D:12 |       0 |    6017 |   0.0 |       0 |      45 |   0.0 |    1038
       D:13 |       0 |    9765 |   0.0 |       0 |      35 |   0.0 |    1190
       D:14 |       0 |   11850 |   0.0 |       0 |      32 |   0.0 |    1262
       D:15 |       0 |   14168 |   0.0 |       0 |      40 |   0.0 |    1224
     Lair:1 |       0 |    6805 |   0.0 |       0 |      27 |   0.0 |    1789
     Lair:2 |       0 |    6228 |   0.0 |       0 |      31 |   0.0 |    1504
     Lair:3 |       0 |    7490 |   0.0 |       0 |      24 |   0.0 |    1235
     Lair:4 |       0 |    6337 |   0.0 |       0 |      21 |   0.0 |     997
     Lair:5 |       0 |   10340 |   0.0 |       0 |      32 |   0.0 |    1455
     Lair:6 |       0 |   27014 |   0.0 |       0 |      63 |   0.0 |    2266
   Shoals:1 |       0 |   12118 |   0.0 |       0 |      21 |   0.0 |     942
   Shoals:2 |       0 |   13473 |   0.0 |       0 |      23 |   0.0 |     775
   Shoals:3 |       0 |   16504 |   0.0 |       0 |      30 |   0.0 |     828
   Shoals:4 |       0 |   33709 |   0.0 |       0 |      56 |   0.0 |    1459
    Snake:1 |       0 |   15172 |   0.0 |       0 |      25 |   0.0 |    1526
    Snake:2 |       0 |   25182 |   0.0 |       0 |      46 |   0.0 |    2223
    Snake:3 |       0 |   28904 |   0.0 |       0 |      41 |   0.0 |    2408
    Snake:4 |       0 |   49536 |   0.0 |       0 |      91 |   0.0 |    2577
      Orc:1 |       0 |    3192 |   0.0 |       0 |      36 |   0.0 |     768
      Orc:2 |       0 |   12834 |   0.0 |       0 |     102 |   0.0 |    2631
      Elf:1 |       0 |   20322 |   0.0 |       0 |      32 |   0.0 |    1105
      Elf:2 |       0 |   44482 |   0.0 |       0 |      64 |   0.0 |    1275
      Elf:3 |       0 |   68223 |   0.0 |       0 |      69 |   0.0 |    1699
   Vaults:1 |       0 |   43027 |   0.0 |       0 |      91 |   0.0 |    2245
   Vaults:2 |       0 |   53540 |   0.0 |       0 |      91 |   0.0 |    2035
   Vaults:3 |       0 |   80344 |   0.0 |       0 |      85 |   0.0 |    2025
   Vaults:4 |       0 |   65425 |   0.0 |       0 |      73 |   0.0 |    1573
        Lab |       0 |    4484 |   0.0 |       0 |      18 |   0.0 |     931
    Volcano |       0 |    2827 |   0.0 |       0 |       8 |   0.0 |     377
            +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 4416

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Wednesday, 25th July 2018, 17:55

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

To second Siegurt's message: remember that conjurations aren't the only way for DE to deal with monsters. You can play En, pick up a bow, and spend a bunch of the game pincushioning confused monsters; it's very likely a more XP-efficient way of dealing with things.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

bel

Dis Charger

Posts: 2024

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Thursday, 26th July 2018, 03:32

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

CanOfWorms wrote:with no sources of wizardry, that deep elf would have a ~60% failure rate for fireball (regular shield raises it to ~20%), that's how strong vehumet's wizardry is. the spell rate change was also added after 0.21 so it has no impact here

Surely this is a bug? It can't be intentional to provide such a big wiz boost (from 60% failure to 7% failure).

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Post Thursday, 26th July 2018, 05:25

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Berder wrote:That character is wearing equipment of EV+8 and has the Agile mutation. Evasion from those sources don't count for our purposes. Yes, a shield would still add a lot to that, though you have unusually high defenses for a deep elf and therefore don't need it as much.


In my experience it is not uncommon to find a couple of rings with EV+4/5 even in 3 rune game and Agile 1 is not a big deal provided how many items increase Dex by more than 2. I wonder what equipment you use with DE. "Glass cannon" with extra rings of ice/fire?
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Post Thursday, 26th July 2018, 06:14

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

bel wrote:Surely this is a bug? It can't be intentional to provide such a big wiz boost (from 60% failure to 7% failure).

oh you're right, I was testing it on a character wearing plate armor, the failure rate would actually be ~25% with a large shield (7% with regular shield.)

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Post Thursday, 26th July 2018, 22:17

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
Berder wrote:That character is wearing equipment of EV+8 and has the Agile mutation. Evasion from those sources don't count for our purposes. Yes, a shield would still add a lot to that, though you have unusually high defenses for a deep elf and therefore don't need it as much.


In my experience it is not uncommon to find a couple of rings with EV+4/5 even in 3 rune game and Agile 1 is not a big deal provided how many items increase Dex by more than 2. I wonder what equipment you use with DE. "Glass cannon" with extra rings of ice/fire?

Fair point about the Agile mutation, but the EV+8 from equipment benefits you whether you have a shield or not; it is irrelevant. We are only concerned about EV gained by training Dodging.

I set up your character in wizmode. With the exact skill levels, stats, and equivalent equipment you had, it came out to 28/36/7 stats. There is a slight discrepancy, you had 28/37/7 stats in your morgue. I assume the loss of 1 ev was due to some formula change. Altering dodging skill a tiny amount isn't enough to bump that 36 to a 37, so it's not a rounding error. I'll leave it at 36.

Then I used http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Skill to calculate how much lower Dodging skill you would need, in order to get 15 Shields skill with the same total number of skill points spent. I calculated your Dodging would have to be lowered from 21 to 14, and did so. Then I raised Shields skill to 15, and equipped a +0 Shield of Protection. The resulting stats were 31/30/13. Relative to your previous stats, this is +3 AC, -6 EV, +6 SH, a gain of +3 points overall. All of those 3 points come from the Protection brand on the shield.

So, the moral seems to be, it depends on how good a shield you can find. If you can find a nice branded or enchanted shield, then you should hold off on Dodging in order to train the shield. On the other hand, if the only shields available are plain +0 and you don't have spare enchant armor scrolls to get a nice +5 shield, you should stick with a buckler. Also it depends on the brand and enchantment on the buckler; if you have a buckler of resistance and no comparable shield, the buckler is going to be better (assuming you found it before you trained shields to 15).

Of course, this relatively close race between shields and bucklers is only true for Deep Elves. For other races without the +2 dodging and -2 shields aptitudes, the equation would be tilted more heavily in favor of a shield every time.
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Post Thursday, 26th July 2018, 22:26

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

If the results are equivalent, isn't investing in the shield much better, because you get a big chunk of extra XP to play with, the possibility of enchanting your empty slot, and the possibility of finding a branded shield later? That is - if you're sitting at "Never caring about a two-handed weapon and 14 dodging and 0 shields," isn't training shields giving you MORE bang for your XP buck? If you were offered +1 permanent AC in exchange for your boot slot, you wouldn't take it, because you could enchant some boots AND get branded boots later.

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Post Friday, 27th July 2018, 05:10

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Berder

True, I benefit from EV equipment no matter if I have shield or not, but it helps more if I have higher EV. Also the higher EV I have the less useful SH becomes.
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Post Friday, 27th July 2018, 14:12

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Why would higher EV result in SH become less useful? I would consider that just as strange as saying that the higher SH I have the less useful EV becomes. I would regard SH just as useful no matter what the EV is, just as I would regard EV just as useful no matter the SH. i feel like I am missing some sort of infomation.

Anyways I went though a quick look through at my elemental 3+ runers and most do have shields, which suprised me as I was expecting just bucklers. One even had a large shield. None ever so early as Berder's example, but Vehemut's spell failure mitigation does wonders I imagine.

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Post Friday, 27th July 2018, 14:26

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Plantissue wrote:Why would higher EV result in SH become less useful?


I am lazy to run fsim so here is an easy example.
Let's compare 2 characters. One has 30% chance to dodge attacks, another has 70% chance to dodge attacks.
Now let's add a shield which blocks 20% attacks.
First character blocks 20% attacks and dodges 0.8*0.3=24% attacks so it blocks/dodges 44% attacks which is roughly 46% (44/30*100%-100%) improvement.
Second character blocks 20% attacks and dodges 0.8*0.7=56% attacks so it blocks/dodges 76% attacks which is roughly 9% (76/70*100%-100%) improvement.
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Post Friday, 27th July 2018, 17:45

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

That maths isn't right. You've either swopped the probabilities for 30% dodge with the 70% dodge somewhere and/or applied 1/(P) when you shouldn't have.

How did you get [ 24% attacks so it blocks/dodges 44% attacks ]and [56% attacks so it blocks/dodges 76%] ?


I am going to use your wierd mathematical style where you seem to use P = 1 =100% interchangebly and the strange way of working out improvement:

Lets compare two characters. A has 30% chance to dodge attacks. B has 70% chance to dodge attacks.

Improvement = (dodge only attack hit rate % / with shield and dodge combined attack hit rate%)

A blocks 20% attacks and dodges 30% attacks for 0.8*0.7 = 56% attacks get through. Formerly was 70% got through. Therefore (70/56)*100%-100% = 25% improvement
B blocks 20% attacks and dodges 70% attacks for 0.8*0.3 = 24% attacks get through. Formerly was 30% got through. Therefore (30/24)*100%-100% = 25% improvement

The improvement are the same.


You can work it out mathematically without going through such complicated mess of nomenclature and probability style though.

If both characters have a shield that which block 20% of hits, then it stands to reason that the character receives 80% of attacks it had done so formerly, no matter the dodge rate, and so gains a 100/80 percent chance of survival which translates to 1.25, which is a 25% increase in survival.

((100%/80%)*100%-100%) = 25%


Improvement to survivability (or effective HP or whatever measuremnt you use) shouldn't change depending on dodge. If you don't believe me, try working out your maths again with 99% dodge rate and 1% dodge rate, and you will see that your mathematical method doesn't make any sense.

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Post Saturday, 28th July 2018, 06:53

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

You wrote the same thing.
I care about blocked/dodged attacks so I use 44/30 as metrics while you care about unblocked/undodged attacks and use 70/56. I believe your formula for improvement is wrong. For instance, if you get undodged attacks from 10% to 1%, you will get 1000% improvement while in reality it means you evade 99% instead of 90% which is just 10% improvement.
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Post Saturday, 28th July 2018, 06:57

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Of course evading 15% instead of 1% will result in 1500% improvement with my metrics but I specifically was talking about characters with high EV so their dodge chance is far from 0.
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Post Saturday, 28th July 2018, 07:22

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

Plantissue wrote:That maths isn't right. You've either swopped the probabilities for 30% dodge with the 70% dodge somewhere and/or applied 1/(P) when you shouldn't have.
How did you get [ 24% attacks so it blocks/dodges 44% attacks ]and [56% attacks so it blocks/dodges 76%] ?

There's no error there. You can see this because "blocks/dodges 44%" is the same statement as your "56% attacks get through" and "blocks/dodges 76%" is the same statement as your "24% attacks get through". You've both arrived at exactly the same probability of being hit in each case, so in fact your arithmetic agrees so far.

VeryAngryFelid has performed a calculation that goes: suppose we block before dodging[1]. Let B be the proportion of attacks that are blocked and D the proportion that would be dodged if unblocked (either because no shield, or not blocked). B of the total attacks will be blocked - what proportion of the total attacks will be dodged? (1-B) of them could possibly be dodged because they weren't blocked, and of those, D of the total will actually be dodged, so the proportion of the total that will be dodged is (1-B)*D. Then add that to the B proportion that were blocked and we have B+(1-B)*D = B+(D-BD) = B+D-BD as the chance of a successful block or dodge.

There's nothing wrong with this calculation except that it is needlessly complex compared to the one you have done, which is to multiply (1-B), the chance of not blocking, by (1-D), the chance of not dodging. But (1-B)*(1-D) = 1-B-D+BD = 1-(B+D-BD). This is of course the inverse of the probability that VAF's method calculates, so in fact both methods necessarily give the same answer.
Improvement to survivability (or effective HP or whatever measuremnt you use) shouldn't change depending on dodge. If you don't believe me, try working out your maths again with 99% dodge rate and 1% dodge rate, and you will see that your mathematical method doesn't make any sense.

In fact VAF's method continues to give exactly the same probability of a hit as yours does, as illustrated above. They would say the 99th character blocks 20% attacks and dodges 0.8*0.99=79.2% attacks so it blocks/dodges 99.2% attacks. You would say 0.8 * 0.01 = 0.008 so it fails to dodge/block 0.8% of attacks. These are still the same answer.

The confusion arises because you have then calculated the change in defense in different ways. You have calculated the percentage reduction in the chance of getting hit. VAF has calculated the percentage improvement in the chance of not being hit. These are different things, not simply the inverse of each other, so it is unremarkable that yours stays the same for any value of D but VAF's changes.

Who has the most useful metric? In my view that can be seen from the 99% dodge case. As the chance of dodging tends to 100%, your metric continues to give the same value, "25% increase in survival", or rather "20% reduction in incoming damage". VAF's metric tends towards "no improvement in chance of avoiding attack". However, it's plainly obvious that a hypothetical character that did dodge 100% of attacks would get no defensive benefit from a shield whatsoever, and that the 99% dodger is getting almost no benefit, which suggests to me your metric is not a useful one - put another way, for a given number of current hitpoints, I care a lot more about a 20% reduction in incoming damage from a shield if my expected undodged incoming damage this turn is 50 than 5.

[1] which we do, but while this matters for reflection, riposte, OODs zooming past you, the odds of blocking multiple attacks, etc, it doesn't matter here, so VAF's calculation would be correct either way.
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Post Saturday, 28th July 2018, 07:28

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

dear god

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Post Saturday, 28th July 2018, 08:21

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

This whole discussion about EV and SH is pointless, and it's very unlikely that the OP (or anyone else) cares about it.

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Post Saturday, 28th July 2018, 16:09

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

damerell wrote:Who has the most useful metric? In my view that can be seen from the 99% dodge case. As the chance of dodging tends to 100%, your metric continues to give the same value, "25% increase in survival", or rather "20% reduction in incoming damage". VAF's metric tends towards "no improvement in chance of avoiding attack". However, it's plainly obvious that a hypothetical character that did dodge 100% of attacks would get no defensive benefit from a shield whatsoever, and that the 99% dodger is getting almost no benefit, which suggests to me your metric is not a useful one - put another way, for a given number of current hitpoints, I care a lot more about a 20% reduction in incoming damage from a shield if my expected undodged incoming damage this turn is 50 than 5.

You can't get 100% dodging chance. You also, in practice, can't get 99% dodging chance. If you manage 35 EV against a vault guard, which a deep elf typically can't, you might get 80% dodging chance. You can test this in fsim. Against more dangerous enemies like orb guardians or storm dragons, that 35 EV is only going to dodge around 50% of attacks.

Look at "turns you have to live": disregarding regeneration for simplicity, you can live HP/(average incoming damage per turn) turns. This has a clear in-game meaning for how long you can continue to fight. Shields increase turns-to-live by a fixed percentage. If you block 30% of attacks, this increases your turns-to-live by a factor of 1/0.7, a 42% increase. This percentage increase is regardless of your current evasion chance.

Now, it is true there are diminishing returns to EV and SH, but this is because of attacks like fireball and paralysis that bypass them. Note that melee attacks from monsters with the Fighter flag partially bypass EV, but not SH. Same for orb of destruction. Also, bolt spells bypass SH and not EV. So against some attacks SH is better, and against other attacks EV is better.
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Post Saturday, 28th July 2018, 22:48

Re: How to win Deep Elves?

VeryAngryFelid wrote:You wrote the same thing.
I care about blocked/dodged attacks so I use 44/30 as metrics while you care about unblocked/undodged attacks and use 70/56. I believe your formula for improvement is wrong. For instance, if you get undodged attacks from 10% to 1%, you will get 1000% improvement while in reality it means you evade 99% instead of 90% which is just 10% improvement.

The same thing was written, because that's how maths work. If I got two different results then the maths is wrong. That's just reality.

If undodged attacks (ie the rate in which you take a hit) goes from 10% to 1%, you went from being hit 1 in 10 times to 1 in 100 times, then yes there is a 1000% improvement in effective HP, ie, ten times more effective.
If undodged attacks goes from 1% to 0.1%, that too is a 1000% (tenfold) improvement.
If undodged attacks goes from 0.1% to 0.01%, that too is a 1000% (tenfold) improvement.
If undodged attacks goes from 1% to 0.01%, that is a 10000% (hundredfold) improvement.
And so and and so forth where upon a 0% chance of undodge attacks, that is to say every attack is dodged, then infinity is reached, and you have effectively infinite HP (Assuming that every attack is dodgeable of course).
That's just reality.

Also damerall, veryangry felid wrote
VeryAngryFelid wrote:First character blocks 20% attacks and dodges 0.8*0.3=24% attacks so it blocks/dodges 44% attacks which is roughly 46% (44/30*100%-100%) improvement.
Can you not see that he has completely swopped his numbers around? For his first character, it makes no sense to claim that to be hit 24% of the time is now 44%. He has used values from the wrong character to produce his numbers, as has you, whereas, which is why you both make no sense at all. He took the values of (1-B%) for character A and the values for (1-A%) for character B. Simply put, the maths looks correct but is utter nonsense. It doesn't face basic scrutiny.

In any case this is getting off topic, so I shall make a post in CYC instead.

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