Tomb 3 - kill hole


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Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 17th April 2018, 18:10

Tomb 3 - kill hole

Int 31 (brill.), fast, invis.
MIght get ugly if LRD won't work :)
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Airwolf, hannobal, nago, Tumalu, VeryAngryFelid

Snake Sneak

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Post Tuesday, 17th April 2018, 23:01

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

Interesting, but how do you LRD the second hole without killing yourself from the shrapnel? Up to 3d45 is a lot of damage, even with triple AC factored.

Well, actually, I guess in this setup you'd on average you'd take maybe 15~20 damage, which isn't that bad. But you could potentially hit yourself for closer to 100.

...unless I'm severely overestimating your spellpower. With a low spellpower character the selfdamage really wouldn't be much, outside of really awful rolls. As long as you've got 50 power you have a fixed chance to break the wall. Not very hard with brilliance and a character in Tomb. Huh. This is pretty good.

Spider Stomper

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Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 00:22

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

They could just break walls one square away from themselves...
I'm with tasonir on this one.

Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 01:43

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

You can't do that for the second square, tho'. And that's the most important one, since it takes everything else out of LoS. But yeah, unless your actual focus was earth magic, I guess killing yourself with the spell isn't a big concern.

Potentially taking 20 attempts for both 10% chances on a loud spell to trigger, on the other hand, might be. :V (And if you have to hit yourself 10 times with the second, even ~10 damage will really add up...)

Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 04:49

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

i also had an interesting run in tomb:3 earlier. Wu jian ultimate skill whatever its called with a super high powered silence(Aug + enhancer mut). The clouds block LOS and when they can see u they are silenced!

Swamp Slogger

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Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 06:39

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

Tumalu wrote:Interesting, but how do you LRD the second hole without killing yourself from the shrapnel? Up to 3d45 is a lot of damage, even with triple AC factored.


With brill. I have but the last two pips for LRD.
I tried it again in another game and didn't make a dent so I cannot rely on getting a kill hole and need a plan B.

I use LRD in Tomb very often (in tomb 1 + tomb 2)

game:
https://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/N ... 213637.txt
Earth at 19 or 20 (made comments in-game), spc at 15 in tomb 3

damage: you can see the damage I've taken on screen
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 08:38

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

Image

Image

Image

Image

some more screens of this

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 10:41

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

Based on the screens it looks like everyone goes for Statue Form these days (unless TSO/Kiku I guess).
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 11:08

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Based on the screens it looks like everyone goes for Statue Form these days (unless TSO/Kiku I guess).


It is 2*Nebu and 3*Powermode.

LRD+SF have excellent synergy.
If you can cast SF (Lvl 6 and earth>tansmut) you can also cast LRD (lvl 5) with at least some % of success.

I prefer not to be in SF when I dig a kill hole but once I have it I'll switch to it.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 22:50

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Based on the screens it looks like everyone goes for Statue Form these days (unless TSO/Kiku I guess).

Or Xom:
http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/git/sti ... 190027.txt

But yeah, Statue Form is good in Tomb, as it gives you immunity to miasma and flay, along with significant torment resistance.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 1st May 2018, 22:34

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

I'll have to give it a shot, but is it really just a 10% chance to break? Even with a couple of turns as a head start, there's still a decent chance you're going to be facing a lot of mummies before both are broken...

Swamp Slogger

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Post Wednesday, 2nd May 2018, 08:13

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

tasonir wrote:I'll have to give it a shot, but is it really just a 10% chance to break? Even with a couple of turns as a head start, there's still a decent chance you're going to be facing a lot of mummies before both are broken...


In my 1st image you can see that I 'opened' a door (before something opened the other one) so I had escaping by Cblink as an option.
I use Lee's a lot (Pan+Hell+Zot 5, too) and there is a big variety in whether you can do it or not.
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Friday, 4th May 2018, 09:30

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

Image

up !!
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Sunday, 6th May 2018, 00:42

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Based on the screens it looks like everyone goes for Statue Form these days (unless TSO/Kiku I guess).


if you do extended tomb will be so unpleasant that there's no reason not to, or it will be a huge resource sink. also enough sub-20k 15 runers may have eventually made people realize that statue form and AC is good. Imagine what kind of turn counts we could have seen in like, 0.17-a before the various nerfs to chei statue but a more developed strategy. Reminder that chei statue builds have had:

- Statue form NERFED
- Stoneskin + statue combo REMOVED
- Phase shift REMOVED
- Teleport spamming in extended REMOVED
- otoh you can passage spam instead, I'm not sure if that's a positive or negative for turn count...

and probably a few other things I forgot at the moment, and people are still getting sub-20k 15 rune wins. Now imagine this with 40/40 AC/EV in Vaults.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 9th May 2018, 17:39

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

While you're not wrong tabstorm, statue form also used to have -10EV which was removed, so that was a pretty big buff. Overall I'd say statue form stayed about the same; it's charms (and phase shift) that's been ripped out :)

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 9th May 2018, 20:35

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

tasonir wrote:While you're not wrong tabstorm, statue form also used to have -10EV which was removed, so that was a pretty big buff. Overall I'd say statue form stayed about the same; it's charms (and phase shift) that's been ripped out :)

Well, *chei* statue form was also nerfed in that base unarmed damage is no longer strength reliant. For a normal character the form-based base damage change is probably about neutral or a slight buff, but for a chei character, it's a definite nerf (Although not a super large one).
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 9th May 2018, 20:50

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

Agreed. And making statue form's AC be spell power rather than skill level dependent also ended up taking a few points of ac off (but not much). It'd be interesting to track all the changes to it over the years; I feel like i know most of them, but I doubt I could really make a definitive, comprehensive list without trying to research it for hours (unlikely).

Transmutations are the spells that usually attempt to do the most; completely change your character, etc. So they tend to get tweaked a lot as the game evolves. Fireball is pretty straightforward and has a lot less reasons to change.
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Thursday, 10th May 2018, 00:54

Re: Tomb 3 - kill hole

True, but EV hardly does anything past 20-25 anyway, one will hardly notice the difference unless they're using extremely light armor.
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