Advice for stabbers


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Halls Hopper

Posts: 87

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 13:38

Advice for stabbers

Hi,

I'm not exactly new to crawl,
but I haven't played a stabber or at least with any success since like version 0.14(ish).
... So I'm pretty lost on what I should be focusing on for my (XL10)VsAs -> Uskayaw that I'm playing on webtiles right now.

What are some basic strategies for building a survivable stabber, especially pertaining to early and mid game;
Though some tips and advice for extended would be nice as well given how much I hate winning with less than 15 runes.

Thanks!

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 13:58

Re: Advice for stabbers

If you want to play stabber early game, start as Enchanter because it has Confuse and En. Hibernation.
If you want to play stabber middle game, start as Spriggan Enchanter because it does not take much XP to train Stealth to 20+ and Spiggan's speed means you can try stabbing without having lots of angry monsters following you if something goes wrong.
If you want to play stabber late game, don't forget to have other way(s) of killing monsters: allies (summons or Kiku), direct damage spells, melee.

Edit. I almost always train Stealth for extended if I am not in heavy armour so there are no specific strategies, just run away if needed or try to stab if you can.
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Barkeep

Posts: 4435

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 14:19

Re: Advice for stabbers

It's not super different than playing other character types, except you're using short blades so you need to train stealth and hex monsters before you can actually do damage to them. Don't forget that you have way more than EH in your spell book if you're starting enchanter — you don't get the insane stabbing bonus for sleep stabs, but you still get to do a boatload of stab damage against confused or dazzled monsters. Invisibility is super strong if you find it, and it's easy to get online by the midgame.

Kiku is a good choice, because you get to have a ton of sweet allies plus a pain weapon plus a bunch of useful spells.

Don't neglect your defenses.
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Halls Hopper

Posts: 87

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 14:51

Re: Advice for stabbers

Okay, so the RNG just flooded me with storm dragons, yaktaur captains, manticores, centaur warriors and player ghosts on d10-11 in an effort to kill this toon before I got to the lair. It was aweful, lmfao. R.I.P. :lol:

I've been using Uskayaw for the paralyzing effects,
which seems to be pure kickassery for stabbers,
but starting enchanters instead of assassins would probably still help as I would be much more versatile.

What type of armour should I be wearing for defense: Leather armour is getting me killed a lot, but I don't want to ruin my stealth.
Also, which skills are best to focus on early and to what extent?
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Barkeep

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Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 15:31

Re: Advice for stabbers

Assassin is not a particularly good stabber; they just get some needles and a blowgun. En is the canonical stabber start.

You met a storm dragon before Lair? Good lord. Was it behind a runed door?
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

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Snake Sneak

Posts: 128

Joined: Friday, 9th March 2018, 20:26

Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 15:48

Re: Advice for stabbers

If you start as an Enchanter, I'd just go for the best armor you can wear without making your lv2~3 spells hard to cast. Unless you find great artifact gear, this is probably just Troll Leather Armor until lighter dragon armors come around, like Acid/Swamp/Quicksilver. It's nice to train hexes up a bit past the minimum for more spell power anyway.

Sneaking up on sleeping enemies is a convenience, but not a huge deal when you can just confuse or dazzle them. Since you're not a spriggan, it can be difficult to handle enemies that wake up if you're just wearing a robe; dying to enemies that wake up is a bigger problem than enemies waking up more often, because a good hunk of enemies WILL wake up either way.

In a different line of thinking, VS actually do a lot of damage with a quickblade if you have a lot of str/dex to make the antimagic bite trigger almost every turn. VSBe is a really solid combo, for example. It's not really a stabber, though... XD And if you're playing an enchanter, you want INT for spell power, not massive str/dex.

But a VS of Uskayaw could maybe get somewhere with such a build; a heavy warrior who stabs mainly with Uskayaw's paralysis, not from high stealth or hexes. You still want the stealth skill for stab power, of course, but you'd forgo high stealth for high survivability. Keep in mind some sort of ranged attack is quite useful for Usk worshippers so you can start building piety before the enemy reaches you.

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Halls Hopper

Posts: 87

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 16:26

Re: Advice for stabbers

njvack wrote:Assassin is not a particularly good stabber; they just get some needles and a blowgun. En is the canonical stabber start.

You met a storm dragon before Lair? Good lord. Was it behind a runed door?

Nope; I'm 100% sure because the level wasn't fully explored, and I always completely clear levels before opening those.

The storm dragon and the yaktaur captain were asleep, though... Until I got the bright idea to try to stab the yaktaur captain (still unaware of his buddy). x_x

If I hadn't ran in there to avoid other serious nasties or seen the storm dragon before it woke up and killed me... Well, no, I'd still be dead anyway- everything was pretty ood this time. :lol:

Halls Hopper

Posts: 87

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 16:37

Re: Advice for stabbers

Tumalu wrote:If you start as an Enchanter, I'd just go for the best armor you can wear without making your lv2~3 spells hard to cast. Unless you find great artifact gear, this is probably just Troll Leather Armor until lighter dragon armors come around, like Acid/Swamp/Quicksilver. It's nice to train hexes up a bit past the minimum for more spell power anyway.

Sneaking up on sleeping enemies is a convenience, but not a huge deal when you can just confuse or dazzle them. Since you're not a spriggan, it can be difficult to handle enemies that wake up if you're just wearing a robe; dying to enemies that wake up is a bigger problem than enemies waking up more often, because a good hunk of enemies WILL wake up either way.

In a different line of thinking, VS actually do a lot of damage with a quickblade if you have a lot of str/dex to make the antimagic bite trigger almost every turn. VSBe is a really solid combo, for example. It's not really a stabber, though... XD And if you're playing an enchanter, you want INT for spell power, not massive str/dex.

But a VS of Uskayaw could maybe get somewhere with such a build; a heavy warrior who stabs mainly with Uskayaw's paralysis, not from high stealth or hexes. You still want the stealth skill for stab power, of course, but you'd forgo high stealth for high survivability. Keep in mind some sort of ranged attack is quite useful for Usk worshippers so you can start building piety before the enemy reaches you.


I'm going to roll some stab happy CeFi and VsFi,
using long blades to cross train short blades.
Centaurs would be great for piety kiting as well.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1822

Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 18:39

Re: Advice for stabbers

I have a suspicion that SpEE is a better stabber than SpEn. Petrify stab lasts longer because it has a higher spellpower cap, and you start with Sandblast instead of Corona, and your starting book has the tools to deal with hex-resistant monsters.
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Barkeep

Posts: 4435

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Wednesday, 18th April 2018, 19:18

Re: Advice for stabbers

I haven't played one in a long time, but I remember SpEn having a trivial early game even for me. EH is basically a OHKO on everything living and you can walk away from everything else; Confuse and Dazzling Spray are good, too. Petrify is great but it's EE's first hex and it's level 4. (Yeah, Corona is not super compelling, but you won't rely on it much at all.)

Sp doesn't really need any tools other than "I a spriggan, eat my dust" to deal with early hex-resistant monsters. Or, honestly, most late-game hex-resistant monsters.

Don't get me wrong, I like EE a lot.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

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