DD and Poor-Base-Type Vampiric Weapons

[MainiacJoe]

I have a DDNe^Makh that took a +2 vampiric whip off a gnoll on D:3 and is now on D:6. This has gone very well so far, but even a vampiric whip will need to be upgraded sometime. I have little experience with DD; do I just stop using the whip when it stops healing me enough to stay ahead of fights? Should I train M&F or Axes later?

[tasonir]

The correct answer is also the worst one: You should be looking for a high damage endgame weapon, and train the skill of whatever the best one you have is. But you should swap weapons whenever you think there's something weak enough for the whip to handle. You want to judge every incoming monster as "will this deal more damage than my whip can heal me in killing it". Let's say you find a great mace and you're using that as your "damage" weapon. If you think you can kill a monster and take 5 damage, vs using the whip and take 15 damage but heal 11, then use the whip. If you think you'll take 15 but only heal 7, use the great mace.

Now predict this for every monster you fight! Have fun!

Practically speaking, I'd keep using the whip for a few more floors and then start considering moving up to a good mace. You could occassionally swap in the whip for popcorn, but don't beat yourself up over trying to squeeze out every hit point you can. Makh should provide enough healing to keep you going anyways. I wouldn't switch to axes unless you already have at least a battleaxe or broad axe, preferably one with some bonus, either enchantment or ego. I'm assuming you already have some skill in M&F for the whip.

[MainiacJoe]

Actually, I have no skill in M&F because I've been rushing Vile Clutch (0.21). Whether that's wise or not, that's almost done. No weapon bigger than a trident has spawned with an ego yet. I'll stick with the whip at zero-skill for a while longer, until I find an ego on something above Fi/Gl starting weapon. I need to boost my defenses and Invocations next, and expect Vile Clutch and Servants to able to prop up my melee for a while.

[tasonir]

In that case it's slightly more easy to switch or choose for the first time to train axes, but I'd still say you want to wait until you actually have one. Ego trident is relatively decent for a while but you'll probably end up using vile clutch much more. If you have that much necromancy training you can probably just heal with vamp draining too, making the vampiric whip less necessary.

[MainiacJoe]

Yes vamp draining is great and I've been using it a lot. I added "flash_screen_message += you feel better" to my rcfile to get a better feel for how frequently the whip and Makh are healing me. I have an amulet of faith in a shop that I'm about $150 away from plus a couple unID'd ones since I haven't found Harm yet that might be faith. I figure that keeping high Makh piety will let me prefer base type to vampiricism--and hopefully a nice weapon will have dropped by then!

[duvessa]

You're a Ne, you start with Vampiric Draining, you don't need a vampiric weapon. Outdamaging the spell with the whip, let alone outhealing the spell with the whip, is basically impossible, so I'd just throw the whip away.

[VeryAngryFelid]

If you use a shield, amulet of reflection is better than faith for DD of Makh IMHO