Minotaur headbutt question-

[Gakhan]

So I've been playing for a few years- managed a few 15 rune wins so far- and there seems to be a lot of faulty advice floating around- probably from older versions where the info no long applies.

The question that I'd most appreciate answered is what stat determines my minotaurs head butt attack- does more dex make it happen more often? Or does no stat help it?

I'm currently playing version 0.20 (I believe) - on the no tile app downloaded on my phone.

[Beholderp]

So I've been playing for a few years- managed a few 15 rune wins so far- and there seems to be a lot of faulty advice floating around- probably from older versions where the info no long applies.

The question that I'd most appreciate answered is what stat determines my minotaurs head butt attack- does more dex make it happen more often? Or does no stat help it?

I didn't think any stat helped it, but I could be wrong. Dexterity seems to be the stat used if it had one.

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[Beholderp]

And a few years?!? Few fifteen rune runs?!? Some people play for 10 years and haven't even seen a rune!

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[VeryAngryFelid]

It is determined by both Str and Dex but Dex is more useful indeed.

  Code:

if (5 * you.strength() + 7 * you.dex() > random2(600))

https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/mas ... k.cc#L3229

[bel]

The correct answer is that you shouldn't raise stats based on how they affect headbutt. But if you really want to know, see the spoiler.

Spoiler: show

From melee-attack.cc:

  Code:

    if (5 * you.strength() + 7 * you.dex() > random2(600))
    {
        // Use the same damage formula as a regular headbutt.
        int dmg = 5 + mut * 3;
        dmg = player_stat_modify_damage(dmg);
        dmg = random2(dmg);
        dmg = player_apply_fighting_skill(dmg, true);
        dmg = player_apply_misc_modifiers(dmg);
        dmg = player_apply_slaying_bonuses(dmg, true);
        dmg = player_apply_final_multipliers(dmg);
        int hurt = attacker->apply_ac(dmg);

        mpr("You furiously retaliate!");
        dprf(DIAG_COMBAT, "Retaliation: dmg = %d hurt = %d", dmg, hurt);
        if (hurt <= 0)
        {
            mprf("You headbutt %s, but do no damage.",
                 attacker->name(DESC_THE).c_str());
            return;
        }
        else
        {
            mprf("You headbutt %s%s",
                 attacker->name(DESC_THE).c_str(),
                 attack_strength_punctuation(hurt).c_str());
            attacker->hurt(&you, hurt);
        }
    }


So Dex does a bit more to affect headbutt chance than str. The damage itself is determined by other factors -- which includes Str. So both are important. I don't have the inclination to figure out which is marginally more imporant. But you are free to go into Crawl's insane damage formulae if you wish.

[VeryAngryFelid]

The correct answer is that you shouldn't raise stats based on how they affect headbutt.

unless it is a Minotaur with amulet of acrobat and "Never attack" conduct

[Gakhan]

I've never attempted to win with under 15 runes or I'm sure I could of won many more times mainly playing Minotaur but I've messed with a few different species- mainly gargoyles and demonspawn.

Well I'm not picking stats based purely on the headbutt but its something I've wondered about for ever lol. Thanks for the code- looks too crazy for me to decode- and the breakdown.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Thanks for the code- looks too crazy for me to decode- and the breakdown.

Sorry, I assumed the code is self-evident. Your strength is multiplied by 5, your Dex is multiplied by 7 and their sum is compared to a random number between 0 and 600. If the sum is higher, then you get a retaliation.
Example: your Str is 20 and your Dex is 15.
5*20+7*15=100+105=205. So 205 is compared to a random number between 0 and 600 and it means you have about 34% chance to retaliate (205/600=0.34=34%)
Another example: your Str is 15 and your Dex is 20.
5*15+7*20=75+140=215. So 215 is compared to a random number between 0 and 600 and it means you have about 36% chance to retaliate (215/600=0.36=36%)

[Gakhan]

Ahh. Ok now I do understand. Thanks a lot. I haven't looked at much game code so it looked foreign lol

[Shtopit]

Since we are here, does slaying apply to headbutt?

[VeryAngryFelid]

Yes, you can see it if you open my link or spoiler in bel's message.

[Tumalu]

For fun facts, a lv27 minotaur with an int-less backround and max Cheibriados bonus that put their chosen stat ups into DEX will have ~75% headbutt chance. Without chei it's about 45%. Varies by a couple % on what backround it was and your random stat distribution.

Not saying it's optimal or whatever, but numbercrunching is fun.

[tasonir]

For fun facts, a lv27 minotaur with an int-less backround and max Cheibriados bonus that put their chosen stat ups into DEX will have ~75% headbutt chance. Without chei it's about 45%. Varies by a couple % on what backround it was and your random stat distribution.

Not saying it's optimal or whatever, but numbercrunching is fun.

I was wondering about this. I wonder if you could pull off a chei-headbutt-only conduct. Eventually if you found some +str/+dex artifacts you could raise it even higher, although I don't think the payoff is really that worth it.

Essentially each strength is 5/6 (.83) percent and dex is 7/6 (1.18) percent, so closing that final 25% is going to take roughly 25 more strength or dex...It's reachable, but not really practical.

As an aside, doesn't random 2 roll two dice? It'd thus be somewhat clustered around the mean, so if you're over the mean then your headbutt chance would be even higher. I.e., if your str/dex score adds up to 450, you'd think 450/600 = 75%, but it would be closer to 80-85 due to random 2 rolling two dice.

[Hellmonk]

Despite the name, random2 is a single roll of 1dX - 1.

[tasonir]

Foiled again. Ah well, thanks for the correction.

[duvessa]

Despite the name, random2 is a single roll of 1dX - 1.

It means "random up 2 the argument". (Of course it's actually a random value up 2 the argument minus one...)