Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?


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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 29th January 2018, 07:12

Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

Ok, some time ago I read previous threads about Tomb in late versions without stairdancing possible.
I cannot find the threads now but I remember thinking "ok, so it's CBlink or just blink scrolls, aura of abjuration, TSO, potion of lignification, scrolls of immolation, rF++ etc. it should not be too hard"... And then I tried it on my own...
As GrFi of TSO in maxed GDS with javelins of penetration at min delay and with Aura of Abjuration it was harder than any Hell/Pan floor but never in danger of death. Gr is immune to flaying and has partial protection from torment, together with heal on kills worked wonderfully.
And then my next game proved that I have no idea what I am doing. MiFi of TSO in dragon king armour (basically +9 GDS with MR+), no cleaving, no Aura of Abjuration, no ranged attack (too boring, decided to see how lesser beckoning works instead, got really disappointed despite Int 17 and Translocations 15+), no evocations (I hate the skill).
I used multiple scrolls of blinking, tried fighting in normal form, tried quaffing multiple potions of lignification, potions of magic, spammed maxed Cleansing Flame, immolation, lamp of fire, lesser beckoning, fog. Those annoying flays almost killed me (treeform is not immune), they kept looking at me while priests kept smiting me and death curse summons and scorpions kept surrounding me. It took 3 attempts to clear the floor (never teleported, just retreated via escape hatch)

So what would be your strategy for Tomb 3 without ranged attack assuming you don't have dozen of scrolls of fog?
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
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Post Monday, 29th January 2018, 14:22

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

Gozag plus 9000 gold works well. Ironically, it's better on orb tomb run, because you'll capture pan lords and they will beat up the greater mummies.

How hard did you train TSO invocations?

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VeryAngryFelid

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 29th January 2018, 14:42

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

Rast wrote:Gozag plus 9000 gold works well. Ironically, it's better on orb tomb run, because you'll capture pan lords and they will beat up the greater mummies.


Nice coincidence, nago suggested to use Gozag for GnNe in neighbor thread :)
What about other gods? I am looking for more universal ways.

How hard did you train TSO invocations?


Maxed, 27. Both characters were "Bringers of the Law" at that point. Those Flaying Ghosts were not in range of Cleansing Flame because they were afraid to enter flaming clouds. Even without clouds, I tried fighting while standing on the escape hatches and then the door is at the edge of view, that's lots of time to get flayed.
Should I fight near doors (so everyone coming is in range of Cleansing Flame) and then use scroll of blinking when needed?
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
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Post Monday, 29th January 2018, 15:19

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

I've done new tomb with a HOFi of TSO with a broad axe and loads of tele scroll and and C Blink casted at 1%. I find that the intial drop down attracts most of the monsters so, when you teleport around you should *hopefully* teleport somewhere where there are less monsters so you can kill a greater mummy before having to read a scroll of tele or Controlled Blink away again. I had loads of scrolls of teleporting to teleport between the rooms nearly as soon as I had teleported and casted loads of C Blink to blink away from large nunbers and to blink and stand on top of an exit, using the broad axe to kill the stupidly massive numbers of death scarabs to conserve and recover MP. And so I "stair danced" up and down the one way stairs to Tomb 3 over and over again till the numbers finally fell to a minimal level. At one point I fell to **** piety so I went back to Hell (this was 0.20) to get max piety again to go round for another go. I still almost died several times, when the tele scroll deposited me somewhere dangerous, so I got lucky I guess.

I never saw a single flayed ghost if I remember correctly. I also tried TSO summon holy beings and tele + recall, but they seem to die almost immediately for whatever reason.
I lost a 14 rune character once because I decided that reading a silence scroll is a great idea. Losing god abilities make it not.
Last edited by Plantissue on Monday, 29th January 2018, 15:30, edited 1 time in total.

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VeryAngryFelid

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 29th January 2018, 15:28

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

Plantissue wrote:Also I lost a character once becuase I decided that reading a silence scroll is a great idea. it is not.


It's off topic in my own thread but you reminded me a game where my Og was casting Statue Form and then Silence to kill 1-2 greater mummy at a time. Eventually I pressed a wrong button and Silence was cast first, before Statue Form. I died to those scarabs after killing greater mummy (without rN+ they deal crazy damage to low AC species).
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
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Post Monday, 29th January 2018, 18:41

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

There's nothing wrong with retreating upstairs a few times. Note that it might make the next descent worse if you haven't killed a decent number of the monsters.

Zin's Recite is fun. Vitalization is useful to avoid some of the death curses. TSO's healing is probably better, though.

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VeryAngryFelid

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Post Monday, 29th January 2018, 20:20

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

i just teleport ninja the rune

turns out you don't need to kill every single monster to get it

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nago, VeryAngryFelid

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Post Tuesday, 30th January 2018, 13:52

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

But...don't you just want to kill everything just prove you can? The need to slate your bloodlust? TSO bounds me to the eternal crusade against evil.

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nago, VeryAngryFelid

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Post Tuesday, 30th January 2018, 14:55

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

- inv.: death scarabs (among others) cannot sinv
- good place for fog I : corner to the left/right where you start
- good place for fog II: read map. One layout has 10 (?) strutures with 1 empty tile + 1 door (where the big monsters start). Good place to read fog+even ambrosia.

Standing on an exit and repeating the whole thing is a fine strategy (like you did).

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VeryAngryFelid

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 31st January 2018, 01:40

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

If flaying is a major problem, statue form is immune to flay. Also provides torment resistance, but really I'd recommend having some way to blink/haste run away from the entrance as many times as possible. if you can't move quickly then teleports work too, although there's always some risk that you get a bad teleport after a bad teleport after a bad teleport...

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VeryAngryFelid

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Post Saturday, 10th February 2018, 12:13

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Ok, some time ago I read previous threads about Tomb in late versions without stairdancing possible.
I cannot find the threads now but I remember thinking "ok, so it's CBlink or just blink scrolls, aura of abjuration, TSO, potion of lignification, scrolls of immolation, rF++ etc. it should not be too hard"... And then I tried it on my own...
As GrFi of TSO in maxed GDS with javelins of penetration at min delay and with Aura of Abjuration it was harder than any Hell/Pan floor but never in danger of death. Gr is immune to flaying and has partial protection from torment, together with heal on kills worked wonderfully.
And then my next game proved that I have no idea what I am doing. MiFi of TSO in dragon king armour (basically +9 GDS with MR+), no cleaving, no Aura of Abjuration, no ranged attack (too boring, decided to see how lesser beckoning works instead, got really disappointed despite Int 17 and Translocations 15+), no evocations (I hate the skill).
I used multiple scrolls of blinking, tried fighting in normal form, tried quaffing multiple potions of lignification, potions of magic, spammed maxed Cleansing Flame, immolation, lamp of fire, lesser beckoning, fog. Those annoying flays almost killed me (treeform is not immune), they kept looking at me while priests kept smiting me and death curse summons and scorpions kept surrounding me. It took 3 attempts to clear the floor (never teleported, just retreated via escape hatch)

So what would be your strategy for Tomb 3 without ranged attack assuming you don't have dozen of scrolls of fog?


You're missing the critical element in your TSO strategy, which is to use invocations to holy blast piles of creatures surrounding you, with strategic timing. And yeah, of course the minotaur would suck much more than the garg in tomb...the torment resistance alone would ensure that.

You also forgot to mention holy scrolls. I save them up for tomb. Using immolation then holy scroll together is quite effective. You also didn't mention scrolls of silence, which are yet another key item for a melee build to tackle tomb. Use silence scrolls very sparingly to suppress torment and smite (they'll be useless against demons in later branches anyhow), but it takes some practice to know when to risk using them and when not to as they will limit your escape options if things go badly.

Knowing when to hold back your AOE offenses, whether they be a spell, a scroll, evocable or penetration javelin is very important. Often you want to wait until you've taken significant damage before you unleash your larger attacks (and regain a lot of health at one time.) If you can whittle them down longer, your options will last longer. The tighter and bigger the pile you can assemble before an immolate+trigger, the better. The timing and tactics matter. Sometimes counter-intuitive things are beneficial such as not killing everything you see as quickly as possible. Think of those non-tormenting/smiting critters as walking heal/mana potions.

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ichbins, Rast, VeryAngryFelid

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Post Saturday, 10th February 2018, 16:19

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

1) Go down the stairs.
2) Get to the doorway.

Optional) Fight in the doorway. (this allows you to maximize AoE damge, but if you have soaked to much damage getting to the doorway it is skipped)

3) Retreat 1 space to cut half of your LoS, fight right behind the doorway (this is the melee spot)

4) Retreat to the stairs. Fight at the stairs.
5) Reset upstairs.

Repeat.

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Post Sunday, 11th February 2018, 20:10

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

Silence: be very careful as it shuts down your spells (obviously), but also emergency scrolls and invocations. Silence is great when facing a few mummy priests or greater mummies, but is risky when facing a bunch in the open, like in most of Tomb:3. TSO and Makhleb mitigate this some.

Without TSO or Makhleb, be careful about killing too many of the top 3 mummies at once when low on HP: the death curses can kill you. I think I've died before from Sanctuary's holy blast triggering death curses.

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Post Monday, 12th February 2018, 06:43

Re: Tomb 3 strategy without ranged attack?

Death's Door is nice to have in Tomb, but I guess if you are not under a voluntary conduct, if you'd had DD, you would also have some ranged spell options.
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