Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide


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Temple Termagant

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Joined: Sunday, 4th September 2011, 03:14

Post Sunday, 4th September 2011, 03:28

Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

A Guide to Mountain Dwarf Fighters

Recently, I finally managed to get my first win with a Mountain Dwarf Fighter. While there is currently a guide up on the wiki on how to play this combination, I don't think it explains things well enough or covers the things that a new player needs to know. This guide will not always recommend the most optimal strategies but the easiest and safest to execute. Also, since I'm still relatively bad at this game, I am hoping the community could make some suggestions that could further improve on it.

Mountain Dwarf Fighters At a Glance

Equipment:

Weapon: Holy Scourge (Demon Whip w/ Holy Wrath band)
Shield: Large Shield w/ brand or artifact
Armor: Golden Dragon Armor
Others: Emphasize resistances and conservation over offense

Skills:

Fighting: Max
Armor: Max
Shields: Max

Maces & Flails: 12
Invocations: 10~16 (Cast "Summon Divine Warrior" at Excellent)
Evocations: 10

Traps & Doors: As high as you can manage but do not emphasize early

God:

The Shining One

Why Fighters instead of Berserkers?

Why should a player bother choosing a fighter over a berserker? Even at a glance the Berserker package is stronger. They begin with Trog and can begin building piety for gifts and invocations with their first kill. They have a panic button and trump card in berserk. Before they even make it to the temple they can easily have yet another panic button in Trog's Hand which gives both magic resistance and regeneration on demand.

The best answer I could find is that the fighter package is built for players who want a head start on creating a defensive juggernaut. If the Berserker's aim is to become the unstoppable force, the Fighter's aim is to become the immovable object. The uniqueness of fighters is that they have the flexibility to take maces & flails early and begin with a shield and all of the defensive skills they will need for the rest of the game. Exploit this.

Philosophy of the Strategy

Fighters are an incredibly item dependent character class. They cannot have any functionality outside of an item that they possess on them. It's for this reason why I go with the Shining One as soon as possible. He provides rN+++ (Life protection 3) and see invisible for free at the highest piety levels. This takes care of several pieces of equipment that we can devote to other resistances. He also allows you to summon decoy angels and if things really do go south, has a chance to save you from death.

In addition when choosing between items to equip, focus on AC, SH, and resistances of all kinds. If the enemies cannot hurt you, it doesn't matter how long it takes you to kill them. You are losing nothing while they are slowly losing more and more. That said, it's impossible to truly become invincible in this game, caution is the better part of valor. Always try to optimize your defense by fighting as few enemies at a time and run if you think that you cannot win a fight.

Dungeon Crawl Rules of Thumb

1. Dying isn't worth it
2. You don't have to clear every floor the moment you see it
3. When in trouble - run away
4. The last floor of branches are much harder than previous floors. Come back later for these
5. If you can't run away make use of everything at your disposal: wands, potions, and scrolls
6. Fight as few enemies at one time as possible
7. Early game, SH and AC are more important than resistances.
8. Late game, resistances are more important than SH and AC.
9. Establish a stash to protect your consumables. Do not carry all of them on you.

Mini-Walk Through

This is a small guide on how to get a basic 3 rune win with a Mountain Dwarf Fighter.

Character Creation

Select Mountain Dwarf, Fighter, and Maces. You'll find yourself at the front door of the dungeon open up your skills menu (lowercase m) then hit manual training and focus (tab and /) and click on Maces & Flails to emphasize it. Leave everything else on.

Why No Axes?

Mountain Dwarves make incredible axemen with their +2 aptitude (the same as with Maces & Flails). However, this guide emphasizes defense over offense and axes are not as shield friendly as maces and flails. Holy scourges require 4 fewer levels to max out their base attack delay than broadaxes, are more accurate, and similar damage. Eveningstars require the same skill investment as a broad axe but also the same damage and better accuracy. Finally, maces and flails are able to kill hydras without the using a flaming brand. This allows for a smoother progression through the dungeon and requires that one less piece of equipment.

Early Game Goals

1. Begin worship of the Shining One
2. Find poison resistance
3. Fill out your equipment slots with platemail, boots, gloves, helmet, cloak, rings, and an amulet
4. Acquire a couple branded weapons, a whip of electricity with another type of branded morningstar or mace is preferable
5. Identify scrolls of identify, remove curse, and teleport. Identify potions of healing and/or heal wounds.

In the early game scour the dungeon for equipment. Any non-cursed item that fills the boots, helmet, gloves, and cloak department will do. Even if these items are only +0, each one will give +1 AC. Combined with platemail this will form the basis of your defense into the later part of the game.

In particular, pay attention to any item that offers poison resistance. As soon as you find this item, equip it and leave it equipped. The most dangerous status ailment you'll generally face in the early game is poison. In addition most of the mid-game branches and enemies almost mandate that you have this resistance if you don't want to die.

If you can get a whip of electricity, this will be your main weapon for most of the early and mid game. Carry a second branded weapon in case you come across any enemies that have electrical resistance. I tend to like to have morningstars of crushing (vorpal) as my back up. It's not optimal but it's reliable.

You can usually find an altar to the Shining One in the Ecumenical Temple which is found between Dungeon levels 4 to 7. If the Shining One's altar isn't there, you can find it somewhere between floors 2 and 9.

Finally, identify potions of healing, heal wounds (if you have any), scrolls of teleport, identify, and remove curse. These will be your basic panic buttons and provide basic dungeon functionality. Scrolls of identify and detect curse are very common so try using those first when you're blinding guessing. Potions of healing are likewise the most numerous potion. I like to do my two big use random potions and scrolls checks when I clear out Dungeon floor 3 and when I find the Ecumenical Temple.

Early Game Dangers and Uniques

1. Sigmund - If you see him, run away. Come back for the early game Grim Reaper when you're around level 7 to 9 for an easy kill.

2. Grinder - Blinking imp that has a good chance to keep you paralyzed while he beats you to death with flail. Come back later for this guy. 7 to 9 should be possible.

3. Ogres - You can typically take these guys one on one when you're level 6 or 7. Run away before then.

4. Duvessa and Dowan - Try to fight them one at a time in a narrow corridor so Dowan can't support Duvessa with spells. Also watch out for Duvessa's berserk. I've found I can typically take them when I meet them around levels 7 to 11

5. Prince Ribbit - Run away. He hurts. Come back when you're level 10 to 14.

6. Jessica - You can take her the moment you see her. Rarely is she dangerous.

7. Terrance - You can usually take him the moment you see him too.

8. Edmond - A bit more dangerous than Terrance, but not much of a threat. You can usually take him the moment you see him.

9. Orc Priests - Break vision as much as possible and aim for them first. They can smite from long range that does about 15 or 16 damage that you cannot resist. Exercise extreme caution with them, especially when there are multiple of them.

10. Orc Wizards - They like to spam magic while they turn themselves invisible and blink around. A danger before you have a halo from the Shining One, but afterward much less of a threat.

11. Ijyb - Most of the time, this guy is harmless and you can kill him without batting an eye. However sometimes he has a powerful wand and will blast you to kingdom come. Watch out for that.

Early Game Order

1. Dungeon till you find the Ecumenical Temple
2. Dungeon till you find the Lair of Beasts
3. Clear Lair until level 2
4a. If you have poison resistance, Dungeon till Hive and then clear the Hive
4b. If you don't, continue to clear the Lair until level 5 then dungeon till Hive
5. Lair to level 5 if you haven't. Clear the Hive if you haven't.
6. Orcish Mines until level 3.
7. Finish Lair
8. Finish the Orcish Mines.

Skill Notes

By the time you get to the Lair, Maces & Flails will be at 12. The moment it hits 12, turn it off and begin developing Evocations, Invocation, and Traps & Doors. Do each of these 1 and at time. Emphasize Evocations and Invocations until you can use those abilities at Excellent. Once you can, turn them off and leave Traps and Doors on.

Middle Game Goals

1. Obtain 3 runes
2. Get a Holy Scourge
3. Find electrical resistance
4. Emphasize resistances over stats and offense
5. Max out piety with the Shining One

The middle game to me is best represented as clearing out the other branches of the game - the Swamp, the Shoals, the Snake Pit, Elven Halls, Vault, Hall of Blades, and Crypt. Of these, the Vaults, Shoals, Swamp, and Snake Pit contain runes, but only 2 of Shoals, Swamp, and Snake Pit will spawn in any given game.

Branch Order

0. Clear Dungeon to floor 18 if you still do not have poison resistance. Pray that you find some.
1. Swamp to 4.
2. Snake Pit to 3.
3. Shoals to 4.
4. If you have high magic resistance* - Elven Halls to 4.
5. Vaults to 7
5a. Feel free to the Hall of Blades when you see it
6. Swamp final floor
7. Snake pit final floor.
8. Shoals final floor.
9. Crypt to level 4 (Can do earlier)
10. Vaults final floor (You will need electrical resistance)

*The status screen will read uncannily resistant or almost entirely resistant to hostile enchantments

Just a few notes on this. From the Vaults onward, you will need electrical resistance. There are several enemies that specifically come to mind. These are Storm Dragons (they breath lightning), Titans (they throw lightning), and mages (they shoot lightning). These all hurt and will easily do 1/3rd of your total health in damage per hit. Do not fight them unless you can mitigate this electrical damage.

The Swamp and Snake Pit mandate that you have resist poison. You will not survive without it. I've tried. Even with poison resistance, the poison spit the Nagas use in the Snake Pit will pierce your defense by a third. Mind your health and try not to fight too many of them at once.

The Elven Halls can be dangerous if you do not have high magic resistance. Every monster there can and will cast spells. Having good fire and cold resistance will also be useful. However, once you can close the distance on them, the Elves fall over because they next to no health. Be careful though. Many of the high level Elven spellcasters love to use banishment. You may or may not be able to survive the Abyss at this point.

The vaults are an assortment of fire breathing bruiser types that suddenly switch over to dragons toward the bottom. Decent fire resistance will be helpful. The lower floors are nastier with various types of dragons. Storm dragons are the ones to watch out for while normal Dragons and Ice Dragons are dangerous if you cannot get rF++ or rC++ when fighting against them. Shadow Dragons are a completely joke to you. The Shining One protects you from their breath.

To get a holy scourge, you need to equip a demon whip and pray at an altar to the Shining One when your piety is at 5 or 6 stars. You can typically find a demon whip on the 8th floor of the Vault on one of the Vault guards.

Finally, the Crypt is a treasure trove of piety for you. The Shining One will make this area a joke with maxed out life protection. It's also a good place to stock up on piety that you'll burn through with summons in Zot.

Mid Game Dangers and Uniques

1. Rupert- He's a berserker who loves to spam confuse and paralyze. Extremely dangerous.

2. Storm Dragons - They're faster than you and without electrical resistance will chase you to the ends of the dungeon spamming their breath at you. You can take them in melee combat though.

3. Nessos - He shoots poison/fire arrows that you can't fully resist. Try to back him into a corner so you can melee him to death. In tight corridors you can take him. In open areas you can't.

4. Nikola - Without resist electricity you will die to him. With it, he's a joke.

5. Titan - Strong at range and in melee. Resist electricity is almost required to run away from him. You can probably take them starting around level 22 or so.

6. Ilsuiw - Aquamancer that summons a ton of Water Elementals and converts tiles into shallow and deep water. If you see her, you will need levitation as to not drown/become helpless in the water. Don't be afraid to run.

7. Deep Elf Annihilator - They can dish out alot of damage with Lehudid's Crystal Spear.

8. Deep Elf Demonologist - These guys themselves are not dangerous. It's the tier 1 and 2 demons that they summon in great packs and spam Torment that are dangerous. Kill them quickly and run if there are too many demons around.

9. Deep Elf Sorcerer - They can and will spam Banishment and Hellfire. You need high MR if you don't want to find yourself wandering the Abyss. Nothing you can do about the Hellfire though except stay next to them since their hellfire can hit them if you are next to them.

10. Hydras - Can be exceptionally dangerous if they have 6 or more heads. Requires a flaming bladed weapon or maces & flails to kill. Chopping off heads makes them grow 2 more.

11. Orc Sorcerers - The Shining One will protect you from many of their necromatic spells, but not banishment.

12. Orc High Priests - They're like Orc Priests but tougher and more dangerous.

13. Black Mambas - They're incredibly fast and have a powerful poison that seems to last forever. Do not fight them if you do not have poison resistance, otherwise they aren't much of a threat.

14. Elephants - These guys are tough, do alot of damage, and can push you out of narrow corridors so their herd can surround you. Do not fight them until you're level 16~18.

15. Norris - Imagine an ex-surfer who has the ability to channel the wrath of god (smiting), eat your brains (stat drain), turn invisible, confuses, paralyzes, and then just to be a bitch about things, heals himself. He's bad mojo. Stay away. He's a living example of rule #2.

Late Game Goals

1. Get Golden Dragon Armor
2. Identify and stash as many potions of cure mutation that you can
3. Try to find and artifact with Conserve on it. You need your potions and scrolls to survive.
4. Get the orb and escape.

Late Game Order

1. Dive to Dungeon 27
2. Clear Zot to level 4
3. Take Zot 5 little by little
4. Prepare for the ascent before taking the orb
5. Run like hell and escape

Slowly make your way to the bottom of the dungeon. Remember to keep your resistances up. There will slowly be more dragons, demons, and high level spell casters on the way down. It's also around here that you will find more and more Zot traps. These traps cast a random spell, one of which will be banishment.

You should be strong enough to run around for as long as you have food and fight whatever you come across (as long as there are not too many high level demons). Mutations and starvation are more likely to be a threat.

The entrance to vault is usually heavily guarded with different types of dragons. Take them one at a time. There will be Gold Dragons amongst them and now is a great type to skin one for a hide and enchant it into armor. Also if you have enough scrolls of enchant armor, try to get it up to +5 to prevent corrosion.

Zot itself is manageable if you take it slowly and use the terrain to fight enemies one at a time. It's easy to be overwhelmed and die here. Take it slow and don't be afraid to run away.

Zot 5 however is a different story. This place is one giant death trap. Use a scroll of magical mapping to get the layout. You will need to pull enemies as few at a time as possible in order to do this safely. Ancient Liches are dangerous and if they summon a horde, run. You will not survive. Retreat up the stairs and rest a few times so their summons go away and try to take them out quickly.

After clearing out the rooms, go and get rid of any mutations you may have. In particular, if at any time you acquire Teleportitis immediately get it cured. You will not be able to clear Zot with that mutation. It's probably the deadliest in the game.

After Zot 5 is cleared, prepare everything you will need for the ascent. Potions of healing, speed, berserk, resistance, and scrolls of blink and teleport will be necessary. There is a chance for incredibly high level monsters to spawn all around you as you ascend.

Take the quickest route that you can to get to the next floor. Just keep going. Fight if you have to, but if you can break line of sight and run, go for it.

Once you make it to one of the exits, congratulate yourself. You've escaped with the orb and won.

Late Game Dangers and Uniques

1. Orbs of Fire - This is the worst enemy you will ever encounter. In one on one combat, you should win against them without too much difficulty. No, that isn't what makes them evil. Unless you have mutation resistance you will end up 4 to 6 different mutations, all will be bad. These guys are bad news and the primary reason why you need so many potions of cure mutation.

2. Ancient Liches - These high level spell casters can do all sorts of evil things to you. The most dangerous of which is to summon an army of tier 1 demons who will spam irresistible spells such as hellfire and torment. Also they can banish you to the Abyss which by now is more of an annoyance.

3. Hellions - Strong demons that spam Hellfire, an irresistible damage AoE nuke that will easily take off 20 to 30% of your health a hit.

4. Tormentors - They spam torment. Even with your rN+++, you will take 35% of your health in damage with every cast.

5. Saint Rokka - Watch out for the orc pack he spawns with. If you can get to him before he and his priest buddies smite you to death, you'll be fine. The way to fight him is to get rid of his pack first and then charge him when he's alone.

6. Neqoxec - Spellcaster demons that drain your intelligence and summon other demons for the mass demon party.

Useful Equipment

Ring of Teleport - This is probably the most generic panic button you have. If you think things are going bad, equip this and begin running. It will randomly teleport you which is exactly what you need if you're low on health and don't have time to evoke it.

Ring of Teleport Control - If you combine this with scrolls of teleport or a ring of teleport you have the ultimate you escape mechanism.

Ring or Boots of Levitation - Keep this in your backpack for when you need to levitate. This is most useful in places like the Swamp and Shoals. It's also great for the Abyss with its random deep water and lava patches.

Amulet of Conservation - Try to get an artifact with one of these on it. Alot of the more powerful items in your utility belt are vulnerable to sticky flame and cold attacks. You need those potions and scrolls in a pinch. This lets you have it.

Amulet of Berserk - Who needs Trog when you have one of these? Berserk is a great thing to hit when you know you can't escape and have to kill what's in front of you to survive.

Wands of Cold/Fire- Level 6 spells at your finger tips. These are great for finishing off running dragons.

Scrolls of Blink - These are good for tactical retreats and getting into choke points. Remember to always to fight as few enemies at one as possible.

Scrolls of Holy Word - More of a late game thing, but this lets you do tremendous damage and stun packs of demons and undead.

Resist Corrosion and Resist Mutation - These are incredibly useful for later in the game when enemies will actively try to corrode your equipment and turn you into some frail duck billed teleporting freak of nature. Try to get them as properties on artifacts for gloves, rings, helmets, and amulets.

Rings of Slaying - These greatly enhance the damage you do. If you can get +DMG on artifacts that have resistances, you've struck gold.

Following the Paladin's Code

Many people cite this as one of the primary reasons why the Shining One is bad to have early on. The second being that his piety gain is so low. In actuality, the Paladin's code can be summarized into a few points.

1. No poison or evil weapons or spells (necromancy + pain/torment/draining)
2. Don't stab people in the back.
3. No Donner party antics, ever.

The first is obviously what will hurt you the most. Venom branded weapons are amazing in the early game. Only the regeneration restriction from no necromancy will ever cause any problems for you. Since you will be using a holy scourge as your weapon, which is statistically better than demon whips, the no demon weapons bit doesn't really bother you.

You're a loud, brightly shining Dwarf covered in metal. You aren't stabbing anyone. The only time this becomes an issue is when you fight "intelligent" creatures. But here's the rub, the only intelligent creatures that you aren't allowed to kill that have a habit of running away are shape shifters, giants, and draconians. Orcs, Elves, and Ogres will stand and fight you to the death. Animals, dragons, demons, abominations, and undead are perfectly find to chase down and kill. So honestly, this is a minor inconvenience at worst.

Lastly no eating your race and drinking blood. I can count on one hand how many dwarven enemies I have seen in any given play through so this never comes up.

Commentary on How Gods Compare

I see the choice of religion an augment to your core fighter. You want something that provides extra utility and covers your weaknesses or give you an edge in a particular field.

Okawaru

Many people cite this god as incredibly overpowered, but I disagree. He has 3 abilities, Heroism, a light buff. Finesse, a great attack speed buff. And gifts, random pieces of equipment that may or may not be useful.

The problem I see with Okawaru is that he does nothing to shore up a fighter's gear dependence. Going with Okawaru is trusting the RNG to give you something that can help you. There's nothing consistent you can plan around with him.

Pros:
- Fast piety gain
- Finesse is awesome
- Gifts can be incredibly powerful and turn the tide for your character

Cons:
- Heroism is lackluster
- Many gifts are absolutely worthless.
- Gifts are inconsistent.
- Very low late game power

Trog

All of Trog's abilities are useful and give some consistent basis to work around. Berserk, Trog's Hand, and Summons are all abilities that a fighter can count on. Gifts have the same randomness issue that Okawaru has, but the other abilities make up for this.

However I can't help but think, why are you playing as a Fighter? A Berserker starts with Trog and gains all these things that much faster. A fighter turning to Trog feels like a waste.

Pros:
- Berserk is awesome
- Trog's Hand is great protection for tricky situations
- Summons can help take heat off
- Gifts can be incredibly useful

Con:
- Weakest summons of the 4 melee oriented gods
- Berserk requires experience. Berserking at the wrong moment will kill you.
- Gifts are inconsistent

Makhleb

Makhleb gives a fighter a consistent heal that can help him pull through sticky situations. He also grants a fighter a ranged magical attack that is useful for finishing off running foes. Finally he lets the player bring in some... inconsistent summons to help take fire off of him.

I love the the healing that Makhleb provides but his summons run a huge risk in sticky situations. He requires a big investment into Invocations to help alleviate everything.

Pros:
- Free healing
- Random conjuration spells
- Summons

Cons:
- The spells are random and can end up being useless
- Summons can turn on you
- Carries some margin of risk with whatever ability you use from him

The Shining One

If anything, I consider this guy to be the most overpowered melee God. He gives huge, consistent advantages. His natural piety gain over time also makes him perfect for slow, cautious crawls through the dungeon.

The biggest thing he offers is the free rN+++. This is utterly amazing. The free summons and see invisible are just icing on the cake. His Cleansing Fire ability is also amazing for times when you're completely surrounded by summoned demons or just surrounded. It will easily kill most enemies in two to three castings. Throw in Angel and Daeva summons, a free holy wrath brand, and a random chance to protect you from permanent death and I don't see any reason to not pick this guy.

The Paladin's code that you must follow is at worst a slight annoyance. No poison or regeneration hurts, but not a big issue. For most of the annoyingly fast running enemies, he has no problems with blasting them in the back with a wand or crossbow (animals and dragons).

Pros:
- Free rN+++
- Free See Invisible
- Random protection from death
- Huge AoE nuke
- Powerful, loyal summons
- Free Holy Wrath brand that can upgrade some weapons

Cons:
- Paladin's code restricts options
- Very slow piety gain. You cannot spam his abilities.
- Requires high piety to really make the most of him

Understanding Weapons

One of the most important things you can do as a fighter is to pick the best weapon that you can. It's the basis of your offense and with a bad weapon, you will be forced to run away more than you should. Take this as a hypothetical weapon:

+3, +5 Whip of Electricity

Damage Rating: 6
Base Attack Delay: 110%

The first number, the +3, is the accuracy modifier. This increases how likely the weapon is to hit by that amount.

The second number, the +5, is the damage modifier. This isn't as important as it would appear. On every successful attack the whip will do anywhere from +0 to +5 damage per hit. In addition, whenever this second number is +5 or higher, it gains immunity to corrosion.

The "of electricity" is what's considered the brand of the weapon. These are added effects that modify the damage type and amount or provide status effects on each successful attack. One important thing to remember is that if you are using a branded weapon all of the damage will be considered of that type. For example if you attack a Frost Giant with a Freezing weapon, you will do no damage.

Base damage of the weapon is the most important factor in determining its damage. The higher the better. While the +X, +Y of a weapon doesn't affect this, rings of slaying or +DMG found on other pieces of equipment do. In one of my games I had enough +DMG from equipment such that my Holy Scourge was hitting as hard as an Executioner's Axe.

Probably the most important statistic on the weapon is its speed. This is represented by Base Attack Delay given in a percentage. A base attack delay of 110% means that the character attacks once every 1.1 turns. It's possible to lower this rating by a few methods. The first is by raising the appropriate weapon skill. The second is through the speed brand, which cuts this in half (even if you've maxed out weapon skill delay reduction). The final one is abilities such as haste which increase your character's speed.

The basic rule for weapon skill in delay reduction is that for every 2 levels, delay is reduced by 10%. This reduction can continue until the weapon is at half its delay or when its reached 70%. So a whip can be reduced to about 50% delay (11/2 = 5.5 then rounded down) while an Executioner's Axe (base 200% delay) caps out at 70%.

There are a few exceptions. Quickblades at 30% and Sabers at 50% come to mind. In addition a weapon cannot have its delay reduced below 25%.

About Brands

Understanding what brand does what is absolutely vital. This is not an exhaustive list and focuses on melee weapons only, but includes the ones that are useful or worth mentioning. They are split into three categories: Multiplicative brands, additive brands, and other brands.

Multiplicative Brands

A multiplicative brand is one that increases the damage of a weapon by X%. These are more useful with slower weapons with high damage ratings.

1. Holy Wrath - +75% damage to undead and demons
2. Flaming - +25% fire damage on every attack. Less if the enemy is resistant.
3. Freezing - +25% cold damage on every attack. Less if the enemy is resistant
4. aVrpal - +12.5% damage to all enemies (called weapon of crushing for maces & flails)

Additive Brands

Additive brands add damage or effects depending on whether the attack connects or not.

1. Electrocution - 33% chance to do 10 ~ 24 electricity damage on a hit. Makes noise and does AoE damage if used on opponents in the water (can hit you too)
2. Venom - 50% chance to poison the enemy (TSO bans these).

Other Brands

The remaining brands provide other effects rather than extra damage.

1. Distortion - Attacks either do extra damage or teleport enemies away from you or to the Abyss (no exp gain). Also unweilding will give translocation miscast effects such as being banished to the Abyss.
2. Protection - Adds more AC when wielding.
3. Speed - Halves base attack delay but reduces damage rating by 10% (best brand in the game)


Understanding Armor

Armor is typically divided into two rough categories, light and heavy. As a Mountain Dwarf Fighter, your goal is to wear the biggest, heaviest armor that you can get your hands on. To determine the "heaviness" of your armor, look to its evasion penalty. Penalties of -2 or greater are considered heavy armor.

The most important value that we care about when it comes to armor is the AC value. The highest the better. As we're not training dodging or relying on evasion at all, we do not care about how a particular piece of armor hurts our evasion. However the -EV does tell us how much strength we need to use a piece of armor without penalty. Multiply the -EV by 3 to find this value. Here are some common strength requirements:

1. Platemail: 18 strength
2. Crystal Platemail: 24 strength
3. Golden Dragon Armor: 27 strength

Finally the enchantment of a shield, the +X that is attached to it, increases the AC given by the armor by that amount. So Platemail+5 offers 15 AC. Enchantments of +5 or greater prevent armor from being corroded.

Understanding Shields

Shields offer what is known as shield value. For small, medium, and large shields this value is 5, 8, and 13 respectively. They also give an evasion penalty of -1, -3, and -5. This works like EV penalties mentioned in the armor section.

In addition the shield skill has some interesting effects on shields. Depending on the race of shield and user, each point of skill shield will give different bonuses. The following is what each point of shield skill will give:

1. Normal Shields - +5%
2. Divine Shield - +5%
3. Dwarven Shields - +13%
4. Dwarf using Dwarven Shield - +27%
5. Elf using Elven Shield - +7%
6. Orc using Orcish Shield - +13%
7. Orc follower of Beogh using Orcish Shield - Up to 30%

Finally enchantment values, the +X's attached to a shield, increase the base shield value by 1. If these enchantments are +5 or greater the shield is immune to corrosion. One last note: do not use shields of reflection when following the Shining One. He doesn't like it when you reflect evil spells back onto people. (thanks to CommanderC for mentioning this)

Understanding Your Skills

This section will primarily focus on the key skills of a fighter type - Maces & Flails, Shields, Armor, and Fighting. All skills are capped at level 27.

Weapon Skill

Your weapon skill does 2 things primarily. The first is that it increases the accuracy of the given weapon. Most of the time this is negligible and should not be an issue. The second and more important use is that for every 2 levels, it reduces base attack delay by 10%. The weapon section above goes into more detail about how this relates to weapons.

Armor Skill

Your armor skill also does two things. The first is that it lowers the penalties for using heavy armor. These affect your evasion penalty. While the penalty to EV is something we don't care about, it also slows down how fast we can attack. Something we do care about. The second and more important bit is that for every 1 skill level into armor, AC is raised by 4%. At level 27 this is an additional 108% AC.

Shield Skill

Your shield skill lessens the penalty for using one. Shields slow down attack and lessen damage. They come in 3 sizes, small, medium, and large. For normal sized characters like our Mountain Dwarf, a shield skill of 5, 15, and 25 will cancel out these penalties respectively. In addition each level increases the base shield bonus by X%. I go into more detail about this in the section above.

Fighting Skill

Raising your fighting skill provides bonus damage in melee and increases your max hp. For every level of fighting skill that you have, your HP will increase by 1 for every 5 experience levels that you have.
Last edited by DerWille on Tuesday, 6th September 2011, 01:01, edited 4 times in total.

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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Sunday, 4th September 2011, 04:00

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

TSO for a basic three rune game isn't exactly beginner-friendly, IMO. I'm sure Okawaru is easier. Plus, you can easily go hybrid (fighter-mage) with Oka. Oka is a powerful god for fighters who want to use some spells, because Heroism lets them worry less about not raising fighting skills to the max.

EDIT: And TSO doesn't give ammunitions. Ranged weapons (my choice is sling) will really help new players.

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Post Sunday, 4th September 2011, 05:47

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

I've found that the guides on the wiki are universally absolutely terrible. Some of them are merely vague and inadequate, and more are several versions out of date. A few even reach a very special level of badness. Ultimately the trouble is that the content of what the game throws at you varies a LOT, and the RNG does not feel obligated to follow some internet person's written walkthrough of the game.

I don't really care for fighter-type characters, so I play them less and am less skilled with them. So take what I say with the appropriate number of grains of salt.

My early-game goal as a fighter-type character is to stop being a fighter-type character as soon as possible. Basically, that ogre with a giant spiked club (or hydra, or ettin, you get the picture) can only kill me if I stand next to him. I don't want to die, so instead of running up and hitting him with a mace, I try to find a sling to soften him up with, or pick up a deity that offers some range. Also, it would be very helpful to find a way to stop standing next to that ogre in case I end up doing that first part wrong, perhaps by approaching from around a corner. This is somewhat more difficult because the relevant items are rarer, but again, deity choice is very useful.

TSO is probably the weakest choice in the guide. She is a terrible deity to follow for the early game. All of her abilities cost piety at levels that assume you're wading through the post-endgame's hordes of demons, but demons and undead are rare or uncommon for most of the game so your piety will charge at an extremely slow rate. Her conducts are absolutely crippling when you're trying to deal with orcish or elven casters, since you definitely want to get the drop on them if at all possible but will take penance for doing so. Late-game, she's one of the best, but until then you're definitely better served by choosing an early-game deity with modest wrath.

Elyvilon is such an early-game deity. It is very easy to charge her piety to useful levels, and her low-piety abilities include a smite-targeted ability that serves as a functional insta-kill on non-sentients. She also shuts down most status effects fairly effectively, so Sigmund can't simply waltz up while spamming Confuse whenever you are about to recover.

Yred will get upset when you finally switch to TSO, but you'll be fine. Yred gifts numerous undead minions, each of which happily march to their deaths against hard opponents, letting you stand back where it's safe. Yred also gives you some useful powers to deter dangerous opponents.

Nemelex is overpowered, but also spoiler-intensive. I don't know if I'd bother adding her to a guide meant for newbie use because her deck gifts are so fiddly, but there's no question she's a strong choice for a fighter-type if you know what you're doing.

Trog and Makhleb are both excellent choices that have already been covered. I'm not so fond of Okawaru for the fighter background, though. Okawaru doesn't really add much versatility to a fighter, instead boosting the fighter's specialties. But the fighter is already cripplingly overspecialized and in desperate need of versatility. I find Okawaru is more helpful for a character that already has some versatility but needs more punch. A warper, for instance, or a hunter.

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Post Sunday, 4th September 2011, 08:13

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

Thank you for the replies everyone. I'll be sure to add some of the points you brought up earlier.

pratamawirya wrote:TSO for a basic three rune game isn't exactly beginner-friendly, IMO. I'm sure Okawaru is easier. Plus, you can easily go hybrid (fighter-mage) with Oka. Oka is a powerful god for fighters who want to use some spells, because Heroism lets them worry less about not raising fighting skills to the max.

EDIT: And TSO doesn't give ammunitions. Ranged weapons (my choice is sling) will really help new players.


I thought this would be the case with TSO as well, but I quickly found that he/she is quite particular. Floors 1 to 4 don't have much in the way of piety, but after that I was surprised how consistent messages of "TSO accepts your kill" began appearing. I'll talk more about this in my reply to KoboldLord below.

I've noticed that fighter-mage is the popular build with Okawaru, but for all intents and purposes, a Mountain Dwarf isn't going to be casting spells without a serious exp commitment. Charms, Translocations, and Air magics are at -2 and Spellcasting is at a painful -3. There could be some hope with Earth and Fire magic, but this guide is emphasizing heavy armor with the biggest shield you can get. I haven't been able to get my spells over useless

KoboldLord wrote:I've found that the guides on the wiki are universally absolutely terrible. Some of them are merely vague and inadequate, and more are several versions out of date. A few even reach a very special level of badness. Ultimately the trouble is that the content of what the game throws at you varies a LOT, and the RNG does not feel obligated to follow some internet person's written walkthrough of the game.


The best one I found was the Walkthrough for 0.60. It still applies to 0.90 fairly well especially the counter intuitive Hive -> Lair -> Mines branch path. It emphasizes the caution I was trying to impart in this guide. Also your reply has alot of great points I want to address so I'm going to break it up like this.

I don't really care for fighter-type characters, so I play them less and am less skilled with them. So take what I say with the appropriate number of grains of salt.


Heheh, I'm the exact opposite. I've always gone straight for the pure fighter/archer types. I've been trying to get a Deep Elf Enchanter to work but I'm having a hard time of it. She just dies so fast.

My early-game goal as a fighter-type character is to stop being a fighter-type character as soon as possible. Basically, that ogre with a giant spiked club (or hydra, or ettin, you get the picture) can only kill me if I stand next to him. I don't want to die, so instead of running up and hitting him with a mace, I try to find a sling to soften him up with, or pick up a deity that offers some range. Also, it would be very helpful to find a way to stop standing next to that ogre in case I end up doing that first part wrong, perhaps by approaching from around a corner. This is somewhat more difficult because the relevant items are rarer, but again, deity choice is very useful.


Alot of playing a pure fighter type in DCSS is knowing who you can and can't take in a fight. Softening opponents up with rocks, darts, wands, etc is always a good idea. However, once you get that platemail, cloak, boots, helmet, and gloves, maybe with a couple +1's in there, that Ogre is going to be be hitting you for a fraction of the damage he use to do. Generally getting to about 18~20 AC in early game will let you survive 6 to 7 hits against Ogres. Add on top of this a shield skill and you'll see very few blows connect even when you have 4 to 5 opponents around you (but always try to fight them one at time).

I included those big lists of threats to help players learn who they need to watch out for.

TSO is probably the weakest choice in the guide. She is a terrible deity to follow for the early game. All of her abilities cost piety at levels that assume you're wading through the post-endgame's hordes of demons, but demons and undead are rare or uncommon for most of the game so your piety will charge at an extremely slow rate. Her conducts are absolutely crippling when you're trying to deal with orcish or elven casters, since you definitely want to get the drop on them if at all possible but will take penance for doing so. Late-game, she's one of the best, but until then you're definitely better served by choosing an early-game deity with modest wrath.


I've noticed this seemed to be the conventional wisdom so I was worried when I tried it out the first time, but I've discovered that she/he has produced the most consistent games for me. From about D:6 floor on, every floor is going to have a few undead on it. But even before then Orc Priest and Orc Wizard kills are accepted and the Paladin code doesn't apply to them. The same applies to Deep Elven casters. TSO accepts your kills so chase them down all you want.

Also good a good source of early-mid game piety is the Swamp. The zombie mosquitos that swarm around you are free piety. The Orcish Mines are also a good source with all the wizards and priests running around. Strangely, Orcs, Warriors, Knights, and Warlords don't count so toward Piety so you have to behave except Orcs never attempt to run away.

However I do agree, you have to go easy on TSO's actives. Piety isn't plentiful until the late game, but the free See Invisible, rN+++, +accuracy halo, and save vs death more than make up for it.

Elyvilon is such an early-game deity. It is very easy to charge her piety to useful levels, and her low-piety abilities include a smite-targeted ability that serves as a functional insta-kill on non-sentients. She also shuts down most status effects fairly effectively, so Sigmund can't simply waltz up while spamming Confuse whenever you are about to recover.


Could you go into more detail about this? I never considered Elyvilon as a deity choice so I don't have any experience with her.

Yred will get upset when you finally switch to TSO, but you'll be fine. Yred gifts numerous undead minions, each of which happily march to their deaths against hard opponents, letting you stand back where it's safe. Yred also gives you some useful powers to deter dangerous opponents.


Looking through Yred's abilities, yeah, he could easily make it through a 3 rune run. MD train Invocations at an average rate so it's not a big deal and his enslave soul ability would work very well. This defensive build lets you waste a few turns marking targets and then killing them. Even in Zot Draconians and Killer Klowns can join your side. I'd have to try him out.

Nemelex is overpowered, but also spoiler-intensive. I don't know if I'd bother adding her to a guide meant for newbie use because her deck gifts are so fiddly, but there's no question she's a strong choice for a fighter-type if you know what you're doing.


Nemelex does look overpowered but she's quite complicated. I decided to avoid her for that reason.

I'm not so fond of Okawaru for the fighter background, though. Okawaru doesn't really add much versatility to a fighter, instead boosting the fighter's specialties. But the fighter is already cripplingly overspecialized and in desperate need of versatility. I find Okawaru is more helpful for a character that already has some versatility but needs more punch. A warper, for instance, or a hunter.


Even a specialized fighter like this one only gets marginal utility from Okawaru. Heroism never seemed to do much. Finesse on the other hand is very useful. I dislike Okawaru's gifts because they're so inconsistent. Some games he gave me a great weapon early other times he sent me things I couldn't even use or were totally inferior. It's nothing I could really count on.

Also I tried to avoid any deity swaps for this guide because dealing with deity wrath is one other detail that could potentially kill you. I won't argue that Okawaru -> TSO swaps are more powerful because of gifts and the Crypt's ability to power level TSO's piety.

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Post Sunday, 4th September 2011, 12:28

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

You're not mentioning Axes once in the guide, despite them having a much higher damage output than the demon whip will ever have and AC covering all your defensive needs.
I can only agree with posters before me on Okawaru: TSO doesn't give you the versatility you want at all but rather impedes it by turning you into a character strong against demons - which you will basically not encounter at all in a three-rune game (in non-abjurable forms) - but weak against the rest. If rN+++ (where do you even want that in the game, especially in the early/mid/normal endgame - the only places where it will actually help are Vaults:8 and certain locations of the extended endgame) etc. etc. are your personal choices, feel free to play them, but when you're trying to write a guide for other players you should make it clear that they're not optimal in my opinion.
Okay, Heroism is at its best with Unarmed Combat, but especially with big two-handers which are generally better for an MDFi it helps a bunch. I don't see the point regarding Okawaru's gifting being inconsistent since sure, you won't always get the créme de la créme right away, but it's way better than relying merely on weapon and armour drops with TSO.

KoboldLord: The reasoning with him not being useful for a specialised fighter like a MDFi just doesn't work - you don't have the stuff you want right from the start. You're not starting with the best gear and the skills you want, and Okawaru helps a bunch with this (unlike TSO). What you say is maybe true for a Necromancer and Kikubaaqudgha (where Sif Muna is a better choice, for instance) but not for this.

Also, insert orc wizards in the guide as dangerous early monsters. One on one, they deal more damage, take less damage than orc priests thanks to their Blink, and have deadly spells like Confuse, Slow and Haste.
Maybe you should also mention that MDGl has an easier start due to nets and the fact that if you really want to use a shield, you are starting with a buckler, which is more practical for low Shields skill.

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Post Sunday, 4th September 2011, 12:52

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

One of the best features of Okawaru, often overlooked, is his easy wrath. Yes, not all his perks are that great for a fighter, but they make hard fights easier, and the gifts may help you. Sometimes you get a lot of crap, but even the single good item is superior to none.
Yredelemnul is a similar god in terms of wrath, maybe even easier to deal with, and the powers make the early and midgame a lot easier.

I like TSO, you can switch at the crypt (or leave the crypt for the time you switch) and get the piety up very quickly.
But, i have to agree to the other posters here, he is more of an extended endgame god, if you aim for 3 runes other gods help you more.

Another point to be covered in your guide would be the skill progression, especially with an eye on equipment.
shields and armour have both penalties that have to be offset by the appropriate skill.
if you find a large shield early on it will not help you, you need some shields skill to use if effectively.
same with the famous d1 gold dragon armour, you will be like a tank with a vw beetle engine.

unfortunately i am not really in the non-caster department, have some berserker wins, but those are another category, so i cannot say what penalties are worth it when it comes to shields and armour.
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Post Sunday, 4th September 2011, 13:55

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

I think you may be underestimating the benefits of Heroism; in the early it will boost your shields skill enough to make a significant difference to your chances of blocking, but more importantly will help overcome the shield & armour penalty that will otherwise make you lose some of your attacks. (This is even more of an advantage for hybrids, as it will help remove the armour/shield spellcasting penalty.)

Just as useful, it gives a big boost to skills that are at 0 or 1. The most important application of this is throwing; even if you never intend to train it, using Heroism will get you 5 levels in throwing, probably enough to hit that dangerous unique with a poison or curare needle, which can save your life.

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Post Sunday, 4th September 2011, 14:30

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

Jeremiah wrote:Just as useful, it gives a big boost to skills that are at 0 or 1. The most important application of this is throwing; even if you never intend to train it, using Heroism will get you 5 levels in throwing, probably enough to hit that dangerous unique with a poison or curare needle, which can save your life.


Also, javelins! They have high enough base damage to be a real threat to hill giants and their ilk, who can be dangerous to pure melee characters relatively on. I found them very useful on my last melee run.

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Post Sunday, 4th September 2011, 16:33

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

Good guide. My first win has also been a MdFi of TSO, and first time I got a rune was a MdFi of Makhleb. I have played lot of MdFi of Okawaru with little luck.

IMHO divine halo is incredible useful in the early game, when you are wearing heavy armour and a large shield. You will hit things almost as easily as is you were wearing light armour. And don't forget about those early unseen horrors.

A few comments:

Ilsuiw: If you stay on the stairs you don't need levitation. Don't hesitate summoning divine warriors.

Mennas: TSO will put under penance if you kill him. I learned it the hard way.

Shields of reflection and TSO don't mix.

Evocations: If you find/acquire some nice rods, training this skill will be very useful, especially if you are playing 0.9.

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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 02:00

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

I updated the guide and fixed a few typos (I had cleaning fire in there oO). I've added sections on why this guide focuses on maces & flails instead of axes, added a few more dangerous enemies I forgot about (how could I forget about those damn elephants!), and sections for understanding armor, shields, weapons, & primary skills (weapon, armor, shield, and fighting). If you guy see anything that isn't mechanically right can you point it out for me? I based it off the wiki. (as reliable as that is...)

I'll try to get to other people's points later but here a few quickies.

CommanderC - Can you go more in depth with your early game experiences with TSO. I've had the same exact experience as you. I think my first rune was with Okawaru, but the runs with TSO have always been better.

Jeremiah - Thanks for the clear answer on what Heroism does exactly. I could never find a straight answer. However if we compare Heroism vs Divine Shield does Heroism really make up for it? Every time I've used Divine Shield it has increased by SH by at least 10.

Slowcar - I tried to focus on picking a god and then sticking with them. It's easier to do and a god's wrath can be the one thing that ends an otherwise good run. Usually in the early game with heavy armor and shields you'll get a ton of messages that follow this pattern "Your platemail and shield prevent you from attacking. The X hits you but does no damage." Also do the extra sections I've added help address your points with about armor, weapons, skills, etc.

cerebovssquire - Added a section on Orc Wizards. I forgot about them. I also included a section about Axes vs Maces. The idea is that this build focuses on defense rather than offense. Maces are marginally better than axes with a shield and have a smoother progression in the dungeon (easier to find brands and no worrying about hydras). Axes on the other hand are best two handed with something like an Executioner's Axe.

As for the value of rN+++, about 80% of the mid game can be handled with good AC and SH scores. However for the bottom floors of Elven Halls, Orcish Mines, Vaults, etc many of the spellcasters will fire things like bolts of draining and pain at you. This negates those threats without a single thought from you. Even in the earlier game it diminishes the threat of weapons of pain/draining have on you.

The reason I bring up consistency so much is based on a couple of things. The first is that I'm a huge DotA/LoL player and the thing that separated tier A and tier B or C abilities and characters was consistency. If I do or have X will Y always follow? An effect for sure that is good is always better than an amazing effect sometimes. The second is that even with an amulet of faith the number of gifts Okawaru will give you is finite. Do you want the risk of getting nothing useful (thanks for the cursed -2 gloves of hunger Oky) when you could have other things for sure that might not be as powerful.

More of a general note, I'm not arguing that Okawaru -> TSO switches using the Crypt to power level TSO piety aren't the most optimal. They clearly are. The guide is focusing on safe and easy to execute. Even if Okawaru's wrath is easier deal with than other gods' it's one more thing that could potentially get you killed. TSO's early game isn't the best, but for picking and sticking with one god he's great.
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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 03:51

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

Ammo gifts are a bit underlooked here. A bunch of highly enchanted steel bullets or bolts could really make your game much easier.

I've tested it, and MDFi of Oka could really pull a fighter-mage hybrid pretty easily. By Snake Pits, my MDFi already had Blink and Swiftness castable, all while wearing an artefact scale mail and a shield. In melee, he was formidable too, thanks to Heroism. (He died, but the cause was pure carelesness that led to several bad mutations that ruined my concentration :p )

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.9.0 character file.

83765 JaGung the Warrior (level 15, -2/122 (123) HPs)
             Began as a Mountain Dwarf Fighter on Sept 4, 2011.
             Was a High Priest of Okawaru.
             Slain by a viper (10 damage)
             ... on Level 2 of the Snake Pit on Sept 5, 2011.
             The game lasted 03:29:37 (57290 turns).

JaGung the Warrior (Mountain Dwarf Fighter)                   Turns: 57290, Time: 03:29:37

HP  -2/122 (123) AC 25     Str 29      XL: 15   Next: 51%
MP  22/22        EV 10     Int 13      God: Okawaru [*****.]
Gold 1559        SH 35     Dex  9      Spells:  6 memorised, 16 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : +    G - +4,+3 ankus {god gift}
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  j - +5 scale mail of the Storm King {rPois MR}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : +    c - +0 dwarf shield
Res.Acid. : + . .   Res.Corr.  : +    n - +1 helmet {Int+3} {god gift}
Res.Poison: +       Clarity    : .    V - +2 cloak {rCorr, Cons} {god gift}
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    l - +2 pair of elf gloves {Str+3}
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    I - +1 pair of dwarf boots (curse)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    T - amulet of the gourmand
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    w - ring of Eplagyit {Str+4 Dex-1 SInv}
Gourmand  : +       Ctrl.Flight: .    Y - ring of wizardry

@: heroism, slow, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: deformed body 1, deterioration 1, -10% hp, -10% mp, slowness 1, Int -1, Dex -1
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion


You were on level 2 of the Snake Pit.
You worshipped Okawaru.
Okawaru was exalted by your worship.
You were full.

You visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and saw 32 of its levels.
You visited 1 Labyrinth.

You collected 2662 gold pieces.
You spent 1123 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 o - a +4,+1 sling of frost {god gift}
 G - a +4,+3 ankus (weapon) {god gift}
 L - a +0 blowgun
 R - the +3,+3 mace "Stoza" {freeze, +Inv rElec MR Str-5}
   (You found it on level 17 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to double damage against particularly susceptible
   opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   
   
   It affects your strength (-5).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
   It lets you turn invisible.
Missiles
 s - 13 poisoned +3 needles
 u - 16 +1 bolts of frost {god gift}
 y - 20 poisoned +1 needles
 E - 20 +3 darts (quivered)
 J - 34 exploding +0 sling bullets {god gift}
 M - 4 +1 sling bullets
 Q - 10 +1 sling bullets of flame {god gift}
 U - a curare-tipped +2 needle
 Z - 32 silver +0 sling bullets {god gift}
Armour
 c - a +0 dwarven shield (worn)
 j - the +5 scale mail of the Storm King (worn) {rPois MR}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   
   It protects you from poison.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
 l - a +2 pair of elven gloves of strength (worn)
 n - a +1 helmet of intelligence (worn) {god gift}
 I - a cursed +1 pair of dwarven boots (worn)
 V - a +2 cloak of preservation (worn) {god gift}
 X - the +1 scale mail of the Bagpipe {rC+ rN+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
Magical devices
 g - a wand of magic darts (12)
 r - a wand of disintegration (3)
 D - a wand of teleportation (9)
Comestibles
 d - 5 bread rations
 N - 5 meat rations
Scrolls
 b - 5 scrolls of remove curse
 h - 3 scrolls of blinking
 t - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 A - 2 scrolls of detect curse
 C - 2 scrolls of identify
 O - 2 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 f - an uncursed ring of life protection
 m - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 p - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 v - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 w - the ring of Eplagyit (right hand) {Str+4 Dex-1 SInv}
   (You found it in a Labyrinth)   
   
   [ring of see invisible]
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (-1).
 B - an uncursed ring of life protection
 F - an uncursed amulet of clarity
 T - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 W - an uncursed amulet of rage
 Y - a ring of wizardry (left hand)
Potions
 e - 9 potions of healing
 i - a potion of restore abilities
 q - a potion of speed
 x - a potion of confusion
 z - a potion of might
 S - 2 potions of heal wounds
Magical staves
 a - a staff of wizardry
Miscellaneous
 k - a crystal ball of seeing


   Skills:
 - Level 16(21) Fighting
 - Level 1(6) Axes
 - Level 12(17) Maces & Flails
 - Level 12(17) Slings
 - Level 1(6) Crossbows
 - Level 1(6) Throwing
 - Level 15(20) Armour
 - Level 1(6) Dodging
 - Level 1(6) Stealth
 - Level 1(6) Stabbing
 - Level 15(20) Shields
 - Level 1(6) Traps & Doors
 - Level 1(6) Unarmed Combat
 - Level 6 Spellcasting
 - Level 6 Charms
 + Level 2 Translocations
 - Level 1 Air Magic
 - Level 1 Invocations
 - Level 1 Evocations


You had 16 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Success   Level  Hunger
a - Swiftness             Air/Chrm       ###.......   Great       2    Strawberry
b - Repel Missiles        Air/Chrm       ###.......   Great       2    Strawberry
c - Levitation            Air/Chrm       ###.......   Great       2    Strawberry
d - Apportation           Tloc           ##........   Great       1    None
e - Summon Butterflies    Summ           #........    Very Good   1    None
f - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          Great       2    Strawberry


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (17/27)            Temple (1/1) D:4             Orc (4/4) D:11
    Elf (0/5) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:13         Shoals (0/5) Lair:3
  Slime (0/6) Lair:8        Snake (2/5) Lair:3         Hive (0/2) D:14
 Vault: D:14-19     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
The Shining One
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin

Shops:
D:5: =  D:9: /  Orc:4: *(/[  Snake:1: ?

Portals:
Trove: D:10 (give +4,+4 demon whip)

Annotations
D:14 exclusion: Roxanne


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are clumsy (Dex -1).
Armour fits poorly on your unusually shaped body.
Your body is slowly deteriorating.
You are dopey (Int -1).
You are frail (-10% HP).
Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP).
You cover ground slowly.


Message History

The anaconda constricts you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You hit the anaconda.
The anaconda is heavily wounded.
You block the anaconda's attack.
Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You feel much better. You block the anaconda's attack. The anaconda barely misses you.
You closely miss the anaconda. You block the anaconda's attack.
You hit the anaconda.
The anaconda is heavily wounded.
The anaconda constricts you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You hit the anaconda.
The anaconda is severely wounded.
Evoke which item? (* to show all) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
You hit the viper.
The viper is lightly wounded.
The viper bites you!
You die...

...#####.........##.
...##.........#####.
...#..##......#   #.
.<...###.....##   #.
...### ####.##    #.
...#     #S.#     #.
####     #.##     ##
#       ##S#
#       #.@#
#       #.##
#####   #.#
....#   .(.
....#  #...
.....  ..(..
....# ##....
#####  #.....
        ...


You could see an anaconda (fleeing) and a viper.
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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 03:56

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

pratamawirya wrote:Ammo gifts are a bit underlooked here. A bunch of highly enchanted steel bullets or bolts could really make your game much easier.

I've tested it, and MDFi of Oka could really pull a fighter-mage hybrid pretty easily. By Snake Pits, my MDFi already had Blink and Swiftness castable, all while wearing an artefact scale mail and a shield. In melee, he was formidable too, thanks to Heroism. (He died, but the cause was pure carelesness that led to several bad mutations that ruined my concentration :p )


.10 will is seeing an improvement in Ammo gifts allowing for anything usable to have an equal chance, so Trog/Oka worshippers should have good access to Javelins.
KoboldLord wrote:I'm also morbidly curious now as to how Shatter is abusable for 'stealth tricks'. It's about as stealthy as the Kool-Aid Man smashing through the walls and running through the room

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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 06:15

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

I have several problems with the premise, specifically that: TSO is a poor choice of god for a 3 rune game; an axe with no shield would be an easier and superior build. I will not be arguing these points here. I will explain if asked, but I am not interested in debating this.

Instead, I think that the strongest part of your guide is the description of different threats someone may encounter. I'd like to give some feedback to those.
1. Sigmund - If you see him, run away. Come back for the early game Grim Reaper when you're around level 7 to 9 for an easy kill.

2. Grinder - Blinking imp that has a good chance to keep you paralyzed while he beats you to death with flail. Come back later for this guy. 7 to 9 should be possible.

3. Ogres - You can typically take these guys one on one when you're level 6 or 7. Run away before then.

4. Duvessa and Dowan - Try to fight them one at a time in a narrow corridor so Dowan can't support Duvessa with spells. Also watch out for Duvessa's berserk. I've found I can typically take them when I meet them around levels 7 to 11

5. Prince Ribbit - Run away. He hurts. Come back when you're level 10 to 14.

6. Jessica - You can take her the moment you see her. Rarely is she dangerous.

7. Terrance - You can usually take him the moment you see him too.

8. Edmond - A bit more dangerous than Terrance, but not much of a threat. You can usually take him the moment you see him.

9. Orc Priests - Break vision as much as possible and aim for them first. They can smite from long range that does about 15 or 16 damage that you cannot resist. Exercise extreme caution with them, especially when there are multiple of them.

10. Orc Wizards - They like to spam fire magic while they turn themselves invisible and blink around. A danger before you have a halo from the Shining One, but afterward much less of a threat.

This is all pretty good advice. I suggest not using specific level numbers for fighting each opponent, however - that's the sort of subjective information that underminds most of the guides on the wiki.

1. Norris - He's a berserker who loves to spam confuse and paralyze. Extremely dangerous.

This is a description of rupert, although norris is actually even more dangerous.

3. Nessos - He shoots poison/fire arrows that you can't fully resist. Try to back him into a corner so you can melee him to death.

I'm not sure I would recommend kiting Nessos anywhere, even if it is to a corner. Instead, the player at this point may have some wands or a scroll of fog that would be useful.
9. Deep Elf Sorcerer - They can and will spam Banishment and Hellfire. You need high MR if you don't want to find yourself wandering the Abyss. Nothing you can do about the Hellfire though.

Well, they have the version of hellfire that requires line of fire, and they are not immune to hellfire themselves. A simple way to cope with this is to be adjacent to them as they will be unable to cast it.

11. Orc Sorcerers - The Shining One will protect you from many of their necromatic spells, but not banishment.

Orc sorcerers do not have banishment.

3. Hellions - Strong demons that spam Hellfire, an irresistible damage AoE nuke that will easily take off 20 to 30% of your health a hit.

I am a bit tired of seeing the word 'nuke' and don't fully understand what it means but otherwise ok. But again, be careful with numbers. Maximum damage of hellfire burst is 45.

Ring of Teleport - This is probably the most generic panic button you have. If you think things are going bad, equip this and begin running. It will randomly teleport you which is exactly what you need if you're low on health and don't have time to evoke it.

This is strange advice unless you have somehow lost all of your scrolls and have no wand of teleportation.

Cons:
- Heroism is lackluster
- Many gifts are absolutely worthless.
- Gifts are inconsistent.
- Very low late game power

I don't know what to say. These points are not really true. Have you won any games with okawaru?

- Weakest summons of the 4 melee oriented gods

In 0.8, brothers in arms was easily the strongest god summon. Even after the berserk nerf, it is very good and is possibly still the strongest.

- Huge AoE nuke

Again, what is a nuke? Cleansing flame works on a small group of monsters and does a moderate amount of damage to them. I imagine nuclear attacks must be more damaging and universal.

The basic rule for weapon skill in delay reduction is that for every 2 levels, delay is reduced by 10%. This reduction can continue until the weapon is at half its delay or when its reached 70%. So a whip can be reduced to about 55~60% delay while an Executioner's Axe (base 200% delay) caps out at 70%.

This is good information. However, minimum delay on a whip is 5 (50%). It is half of the base delay rounded down, so 11/2 = 5.5- > 5.

Raising your fighting skill provides bonus damage in melee and increases your max hp. For every level of fighting skill that you have, your HP will increase by 1 for every 5 experience levels that you have.

I think this section might need a little more explanation. Specifically, and hp growth is different in a couple of ways in 0.9. I am not really qualified to explain this. Oh, also, fighting gives a bonus to accuracy in melee, and if people want to know, you could explain how it provides bonus damage in melee. It is something like 130% of your base damage and stat bonus at 27 skill.

Hope this has been helpful.
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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 06:32

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

In 0.8, brothers in arms was easily the strongest god summon. Even after the berserk nerf, it is very good and is possibly still the strongest.

Not to mention that BiA has some kind of protection against Abjuration :)

EDIT: I totally forgot something important. Add Ring of Teleport Control to the guide :)
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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 08:58

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

@mikee - nuke is a generic term for damage causing spells, similar to foo but more specific.
KoboldLord wrote:I'm also morbidly curious now as to how Shatter is abusable for 'stealth tricks'. It's about as stealthy as the Kool-Aid Man smashing through the walls and running through the room

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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 10:21

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

One tiny thing: Orc Wizards use ice magic (Throw Frost) too - we don't want players thinking they're safe because they happen to have a fire resistance ring since D:2!

A MDFi using a two-handed axe will probably actually take less damage than one with a shield and blessed scourge/demon whip because the enemies will be defeated notably faster ("offense is the best defence"-principle) and don't forget that your shield won't help at all against Bolt of Fire/Cold and Fireball (both present in a three-rune game) and most notably Hellfire, Torment and Smiting (mainly in the extended endgame, as summons rarely in certain places of a normal game and vaults). Especially later on the axe will beat the scourge hollow.
I've done the extended endgame a couple times with both weapons on various species (Hill Orcs and Deep Dwarves and Mountain Dwarves, and comparable Giant Spiked Club/Holy Scourge ogres) and the axe-users had a much easier time against normal monsters and especially the lords because seriously, all that is a major threat in extended can't be blocked with a shield. Iron Shot maybe being a minor exception, but AC helps here. Before anyone says "executioners" they don't deal much damage if you have MDFi-level AC.
If hydrae are a concern of yours, wands of fire/cold/draining (if not TSO) will kill them easily; lightning works fine too but is weaker; and it isn't hard to run away from a speed 10 melee monster. AC is a huge boon when you're up against many moderately strong or weak melee attacks, see: executioners.
Therefore, axes are superior not only considering "optimal" but also safe and easy play.

My last Mountain Dwarf win (http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/h ... 063243.txt) had enough points in the end to train Dodging, and he only threeruned and didn't touch Zot 1-4. 23 EV in plate is quite a thing! I guess Invocations to a level around 10-15 would be higher in my priority list than this little experiment though if I had joined The Shining One. Still, an interesting result and definitely not bad!

Ijyb will occasionally (_not_ seldomly!) carry a dangerous wand or other item and will often lead to deaths of early characters... maybe add him to to the list as a potential threat?

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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 10:38

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

1. Defensive MDFi = Whip + shield + sling
2. Offensive MDFi = Axe + crossbow

Did I get it right? :)

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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 10:42

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

I never use crossbows for reasons of tedium (also because I prefer maxing Fighting/Axes/Armour and then working on Evocations/Invocations/(Dodging)) but they are much better without a shield while slings are not hurt by one so yes, sounds fine. :)

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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 11:14

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

cerebovssquire wrote:your shield won't help at all against Bolt of Fire/Cold

edit: no, it won't :oops:

cerebovssquire wrote:axe-users had a much easier time against normal monsters and especially the lords because seriously, all that is a major threat in extended can't be blocked with a shield. Iron Shot maybe being a minor exception, but AC helps here. Before anyone says "executioners" they don't deal much damage if you have MDFi-level AC.

Ice fiend melee attack does up to 108 bonus cold damage which ignores AC

"having an easy time against a lord" is not very important, usually you just want the rune and get the heck out.
Last edited by slowcar on Monday, 5th September 2011, 14:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 12:18

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

slowcar wrote:
cerebovssquire wrote:your shield won't help at all against Bolt of Fire/Cold

yes, it will.


I thought this only applied to single target conjurations, not to bolt spells... if anyone is interested in checking this do so but it isn't important.
These spells are not the big threats of extended anyway and are almost fully resistable (or fully in the case of draining).

I don't remember only referring to the lords when I spoke of an easy time, only that the difference between the characters in extended is often especially apparent here.
Killing him/her is actually the easiest way to get past a lord or lady of Hell or Pandemonium on a spell-less melee character of TSO... I'll never forget how I tried to ninja Cerebov's rune using merely haste and uncontrolled Blink since I had no spells, it was hilarious(ly risky). Gloorx Vloq is a challenge for you, normally, but three angels slay him easily if he is alone. It really isn't hard to kill the others if your melee is strong enough and you abuse corners correctly so they have little time to blast you at range.

My experience with TSO melee chars, usually with axes:

Gloorx Vloq: the worst. You're best off with angels. 20 speed torment and miasma is not fun.
Mnoleg - yawn. Maybe bring stasis or Abjuration.
Lom Lobon - rElec is what anyone wants, some rC helps, otherwise a wimp.
Cerebov - Lure him out around a corner. Use Haste/Might or even Berserk Rage from a potion or amulet and he goes down quickly. Bring rF++.

Asmodeus - Have rF+ at least, walk up, hit him. Yes, it's as easy as that.
Ereshkigal - don't get paralysed.
Antaeus - His Ice Fiend pack is horrifying. He himself isn't too bad, usually, and it's not hard to retreat.
Dispater - Use the convenient corners round his castle. Try to lure out his bodyguards first. Hit him. Profit.

Regarding Ice Fiends: rC+(+) is a thing.
Last edited by cerebovssquire on Monday, 5th September 2011, 14:20, edited 3 times in total.

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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 19:49

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

I echo Elyvilon as a superb choice for MDFi at early game. In fact one of my very few victories in this game came with as an Elyvilon dwarf converting to TSO for late game and it was a very easy game overall.

1) Ely's abilities are crucial and positively life-saving at early to mid-game. I can't remember how many times Greater Self Healing saved my neck from certain death and Purification is just too damn convenient and you never have to worry about poison or enemies who throw confusion. Ely caters to vulnerable characters while TSO's abilities are for a well developed character who already have high defense, HP, Clarity and poison resistance.
2) After your character can stand on his own without Ely's abilities you can switch to TSO. You won't get any punishment and you will retain some of your Piety and I think if you have full Piety with Ely you are going to start at level *** with TSO. You should do this just before cleaning the Crypt so you can easily have full piety by the end of it. The transition is much easier than Okawaru -> TSO switch.
3) This is for pre-9.0 versions really but another case for Ely was that it made training invocations easy with her piety-free healing abilities. By the time you switch to TSO you could have a decent invocations skill. Of course that's kinda moot with skill dancing gone.
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Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 20:00

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

Sadly, piety transfer is capped earlier so you won't get *** even at full piety. In my experience I never got more than * switching between gods.
I agree. I had a fun win with HOGl of Elyvilon that was comparable.

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Post Tuesday, 6th September 2011, 00:51

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

Lots of replies... so... from the top!

pratamawirya wrote:Ammo gifts are a bit underlooked here. A bunch of highly enchanted steel bullets or bolts could really make your game much easier.

I've tested it, and MDFi of Oka could really pull a fighter-mage hybrid pretty easily. By Snake Pits, my MDFi already had Blink and Swiftness castable, all while wearing an artefact scale mail and a shield. In melee, he was formidable too, thanks to Heroism. (He died, but the cause was pure carelesness that led to several bad mutations that ruined my concentration :p )



Nice artifact scale mail, but my worry is that normal scale mail wouldn't be enough. What's the heaviest armor you can get away with using this hybrid style? Also if you want to write a mini-guide on skills, spells, and gods to go for, I'll be happy to add it to the guide. Probably in an advanced section (which seems what people are going to want).

mikee wrote:I have several problems with the premise, specifically that: TSO is a poor choice of god for a 3 rune game; an axe with no shield would be an easier and superior build. I will not be arguing these points here. I will explain if asked, but I am not interested in debating this.


I won't argue how mace & shield is better for learning either. So moving on.

This is all pretty good advice. I suggest not using specific level numbers for fighting each opponent, however - that's the sort of subjective information that underminds most of the guides on the wiki.


Subjective as it may be, this is the most objective, easy to remember measure we have available. It's rooted in my experience as a rule of thumb that you can take certain enemies around certain levels.

This is a description of rupert, although norris is actually even more dangerous.


Fixed.

Well, they have the version of hellfire that requires line of fire, and they are not immune to hellfire themselves. A simple way to cope with this is to be adjacent to them as they will be unable to cast it.


Added.

Orc sorcerers do not have banishment.


Except the one that banished me.

I am a bit tired of seeing the word 'nuke' and don't fully understand what it means but otherwise ok. But again, be careful with numbers. Maximum damage of hellfire burst is 45.


Nuke is a generic gaming term for instant magical damage. It's often compared to DoT's (Damage over time) and disable/crowd control which are abilities that do not deal damage or do little damage but instead inflict a status effect. To use DCSS spells as examples, Bolt of Cold is a nuke, Poison Cloud a DoT, and Confuse a disable/crowd control.

This is strange advice unless you have somehow lost all of your scrolls and have no wand of teleportation.


Happens more than you would think.

I don't know what to say. These points are not really true. Have you won any games with okawaru?


Nope. Matter of fact, my Okawaru characters do consistently worse than others. It's why I'm so hard on him (especially for pure fighter builds like this one).

Again, what is a nuke? Cleansing flame works on a small group of monsters and does a moderate amount of damage to them. I imagine nuclear attacks must be more damaging and universal.


I've had it fry 20+ monsters in two to three castings. That's big to me.

This is good information. However, minimum delay on a whip is 5 (50%). It is half of the base delay rounded down, so 11/2 = 5.5- > 5.


Fixed

I think this section might need a little more explanation. Specifically, and hp growth is different in a couple of ways in 0.9. I am not really qualified to explain this. Oh, also, fighting gives a bonus to accuracy in melee, and if people want to know, you could explain how it provides bonus damage in melee. It is something like 130% of your base damage and stat bonus at 27 skill.


I would love to explain this, but I can't find any specific information on it. Do you know a good place?

Hope this has been helpful.


It has.

cerebovssquire wrote:One tiny thing: Orc Wizards use ice magic (Throw Frost) too - we don't want players thinking they're safe because they happen to have a fire resistance ring since D:2!


Fixed.

A MDFi using a two-handed axe will probably actually take less damage than one with a shield and blessed scourge/demon whip because the enemies will be defeated notably faster ("offense is the best defence"-principle) and don't forget that your shield won't help at all against Bolt of Fire/Cold and Fireball (both present in a three-rune game) and most notably Hellfire, Torment and Smiting (mainly in the extended endgame, as summons rarely in certain places of a normal game and vaults). Especially later on the axe will beat the scourge hollow.
I've done the extended endgame a couple times with both weapons on various species (Hill Orcs and Deep Dwarves and Mountain Dwarves, and comparable Giant Spiked Club/Holy Scourge ogres) and the axe-users had a much easier time against normal monsters and especially the lords because seriously, all that is a major threat in extended can't be blocked with a shield. Iron Shot maybe being a minor exception, but AC helps here. Before anyone says "executioners" they don't deal much damage if you have MDFi-level AC.
If hydrae are a concern of yours, wands of fire/cold/draining (if not TSO) will kill them easily; lightning works fine too but is weaker; and it isn't hard to run away from a speed 10 melee monster. AC is a huge boon when you're up against many moderately strong or weak melee attacks, see: executioners.
Therefore, axes are superior not only considering "optimal" but also safe and easy play.

My last Mountain Dwarf win (http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/h ... 063243.txt) had enough points in the end to train Dodging, and he only threeruned and didn't touch Zot 1-4. 23 EV in plate is quite a thing! I guess Invocations to a level around 10-15 would be higher in my priority list than this little experiment though if I had joined The Shining One. Still, an interesting result and definitely not bad!


I will admit that shields start to fall off around Zot but before then they've saved my hide and make for an easier early/mid game. If you want to write a mini-guide for offensive minded MDFi I would be happy to add it to the end in advanced section.

Ijyb will occasionally (_not_ seldomly!) carry a dangerous wand or other item and will often lead to deaths of early characters... maybe add him to to the list as a potential threat?


Good point. Added.

pratamawirya wrote:1. Defensive MDFi = Whip + shield + sling
2. Offensive MDFi = Axe + crossbow

Did I get it right? :)


Basically.

fspades wrote:I echo Elyvilon as a superb choice for MDFi at early game. In fact one of my very few victories in this game came with as an Elyvilon dwarf converting to TSO for late game and it was a very easy game overall.

1) Ely's abilities are crucial and positively life-saving at early to mid-game. I can't remember how many times Greater Self Healing saved my neck from certain death and Purification is just too damn convenient and you never have to worry about poison or enemies who throw confusion. Ely caters to vulnerable characters while TSO's abilities are for a well developed character who already have high defense, HP, Clarity and poison resistance.
2) After your character can stand on his own without Ely's abilities you can switch to TSO. You won't get any punishment and you will retain some of your Piety and I think if you have full Piety with Ely you are going to start at level *** with TSO. You should do this just before cleaning the Crypt so you can easily have full piety by the end of it. The transition is much easier than Okawaru -> TSO switch.
3) This is for pre-9.0 versions really but another case for Ely was that it made training invocations easy with her piety-free healing abilities. By the time you switch to TSO you could have a decent invocations skill. Of course that's kinda moot with skill dancing gone.


This could work very well. I'd need to try it out (might be awhile, I'm trying to win with a DECj at the moment) if you don't mind you write a small little primer on pulling this off and I would add it in.
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Post Tuesday, 6th September 2011, 01:56

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

DerWille wrote:
I think this section might need a little more explanation. Specifically, and hp growth is different in a couple of ways in 0.9. I am not really qualified to explain this. Oh, also, fighting gives a bonus to accuracy in melee, and if people want to know, you could explain how it provides bonus damage in melee. It is something like 130% of your base damage and stat bonus at 27 skill.


I would love to explain this, but I can't find any specific information on it. Do you know a good place?


ygpm, since I don't know how folks would feel about code spoilers here.
KoboldLord wrote:I'm also morbidly curious now as to how Shatter is abusable for 'stealth tricks'. It's about as stealthy as the Kool-Aid Man smashing through the walls and running through the room

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Post Tuesday, 6th September 2011, 03:38

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

Edit: I wrote a brief reply and lost it somehow. Will rewrite this when my internet stops dying.
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Post Wednesday, 7th September 2011, 19:16

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

You are missing a section on where to apply the attribute bonus on every third level-up.

I believe it is supposed to go to Strength, but I've had Berserkers fall to low INT before.

Advice should be posted.
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pratamawirya

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 37

Joined: Sunday, 27th February 2011, 19:28

Post Saturday, 10th September 2011, 06:05

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

I actually just won a 15 rune MdFi game today. Killed all the pan and hell lords too.
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Filth ... 001643.txt

Your guide is well written and has some good advice. The criticism people have about some of the details are very valid however, Particularly when it comes to god choice. Also listen to anything mikee says :)
DerWille wrote: More of a general note, I'm not arguing that Okawaru -> TSO switches using the Crypt to power level TSO piety aren't the most optimal. They clearly are. The guide is focusing on safe and easy to execute. Even if Okawaru's wrath is easier deal with than other gods' it's one more thing that could potentially get you killed. TSO's early game isn't the best, but for picking and sticking with one god he's great.

Your guide seems mostly focused on a three rune win, which is fine. It seems mostly aimed at beginners, after all, and a three rune win is what beginners probably want to be aiming for. People here aren't arguing for a Okawaru -> TSO switch for three rune wins. They are arguing to use Okwaru and to stick with Okawaru, and that is something I would agree with. I did an Oka->TSO switch in my game, but only because I was planning on tackling the extended endgame.

You are drastically underestimating the power of heroism. +5 to all skills means you are hitting harder, hitting more accurately, blocking more, absorbing more damage. The more accurately is increasingly important if you are wearing really heavy armor like GDA or CPM too. Even with good armor skill, they'll be giving a penalty to hit. It is nice and cheap to use from a piety perspective too. Though the midgame, I was hitting it against any relatively threatening unique.

While it is true that Okwaru gifts are often garbage (the character above got gifted some vanilla -2 gloves), the good gifts can often be a real help. Chances are good that an Oka worshiping character will get at least a few pieces of good usable equipment. A MdFi really lives and dies by their equipment, and Oka helps gear you up more than any other god.

TSO abilities just aren't as useful for a three rune game. Heroism is largely better than divine shield, at least until you've maxed out your skills. rN is of middling use for a three rune game. I mean, yeah, you might want some for vault 8 or elf, but for the most part a little experience drain won't kill you, even if it is irritating. Angel summoning is good, but it takes a good piety chunk, and you won't be gaining TSO piety all that fast in the early and mid-game. We'll say it is maybe a push with finesse, since finesse is good and too expensive to spam as well.

One thing I am with you on though, that a couple people seem to be arguing against, are shields. There is valid argument for going 2h if you are planning on tackling the extended endgame. You sadly can't block torment. For a three rune game though, shields are the bomb. They can keep a lot of the nasty hits at bay with the added extra layer of security, which is particularly useful if you aren't yet fully knowledgeable about every threat.

Shields aren't even all that bad in the endgame either. It is another equipment slot which can potentially give you useful resists or other effects. Heck, I know I felt a lot more comfortable meleeing down Antaeus with only rC++ when I had 81 buffed SH. He couldn't really even touch me.

I would also advice against parking M&F at 12 permanently. There is nothing wrong with turning it off at 12 temporarily. It even makes good sense. You can turn it off for a while and work your other skills up for a while. For example, getting shields to 15 so you can use medium shields without any chance of a penalty. Really heavy armor will still give you a hit penalty, and more M&S skill can help mitigate that. Minimal attack delay is nice and all, but it is nice to hit reliably too. Plus, the skill still adds to the overall damage, though certainly not as much as the levels up to 12 does.

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pratamawirya

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1221

Joined: Thursday, 10th March 2011, 19:45

Post Sunday, 11th September 2011, 13:17

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

The other problem with turning off M&F at 12 is that while this is fine for getting the minimum delay with a demon whip, you are unlikely to find one of these before very late in the game, and are not guaranteed to get one at all.

So unless you find some other awesome whip (like a whip of elec from Pikel,) you are likely to spend a large part of a 3-rune game with the best commonly available weapon, which in this case would be a spiked flail - so you might be better off training M&F to at least 16, to get the minimum delay with that.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 37

Joined: Sunday, 27th February 2011, 19:28

Post Thursday, 15th September 2011, 00:12

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

Mikee's comments about the 2h stuff got me curious, so I started another MdFi (well, a MdGl really, close enough) to test how 2h compares. I ended up 15 runing this one as well.
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Filth ... 214744.txt

I went with the Oka->TSO switch again. I didn't really use finesse at all, though I did lean on heroism a lot. What I ended up doing was turning off a lot of my combat skills at 22. When I needed to be badass, I would hit heroism and roll around in 27s. I didn't start training axes above 22 until the TSO switch was on the horizon.

Overall, this Md was definitely more powerful than the 1h one once he got going. The extra damage from the executioner axe was extremely useful, and once I got the crystal plate I found that I didn't really miss the shield. This guy hit like a freight train, and could one shot 1s and ancient liches, two shot electric golems, two/three shot orb guardians, and four shot orbs of fire. He hacked through pan and hell, killing all of the lords like it was nothing.

It was more difficult to get started though. When it comes down to it, a shield is an excellent early defense and armor isn't. You can start with a usable medium shield, while it can take a good while to get any armor really worth a damn. The new skill system means it is easy to get your shield skill to levels where the medium shield is usable. A shield block means you are taking no damage, while your crummy armor will be mitigating very little damage.

You need to be a lot more careful starting a 2h dwarf. Personally, I think I like Gladiator better than Fighter for that approach, since the buckler is more useful when you don't plan on investing into your shield skill. A hunter with a crossbow would probably be a good starting package as well. For any start, picking up a sling early on (or even just some axes and spears to throw) early in is really key. Don't skimp on the wand use either.

I still think that 1h might be better for less experienced players. The early game is one of the toughest humps to get over, and anything which helps get through it is tough to ignore. For players who can get reliably a 2h melee character started, they might want to consider that path instead.

Blades Runner

Posts: 599

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 07:47

Post Thursday, 15th September 2011, 07:52

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

a few points in shields don't hurt anybody, if you want to allrune with an executioners axe there is nothing wrong with abandoning your dented buckler when the time comes.
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3037

Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06

Post Thursday, 15th September 2011, 18:07

Re: Mountain Dwarf Fighter Guide

slowcar wrote:a few points in shields don't hurt anybody, if you want to allrune with an executioners axe there is nothing wrong with abandoning your dented buckler when the time comes.


This is true for everybody, and doubly true for a non-casting melee type. What are you going to spend all that xp on, anyway, if you're not planning to use magic?

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