I Don't Use Nets Enough


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Tartarus Sorceror

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Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Monday, 27th November 2017, 18:12

I Don't Use Nets Enough

I almost always collect them, and never remember to use them. Even if one isn't using them for stabbing, they can give you a headstart to escape or to block a corridor.

Please confirm these impressions about them, a couple of which I'm not at all confident in:

  1. Throwing skill improves accuracy, but has no effect on how long a creature is in a net.
  2. Netted monsters are top tier stabs like paralysis.
  3. Smaller monsters escape from nets more quickly than larger monsters, and this is the only monster attribute that affects escape time.
  4. What I can find on mulching is contradictory, but it seems to be a flat chance each time a monster escapes but 0% when a monster is killed before escaping
  5. The only Lair monsters that can't be netted are the various flavors of elephants, and dragons in vaults.
  6. Item-eating being a thing of the past, jellies etc. can now be netted.
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh
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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Tuesday, 28th November 2017, 13:29

Re: I Don't Use Nets Enough

I'm not sure I can confidently respond to any of your points. But I do share your experience. I keep collecting them, and then forget about them. Maybe not quite - in the early game I do use them to find out that they usually amount to a wasted turn, because they either miss, or are torn apart before I manage to kill the monster. Very rarely I use them to good effect. Maybe that changes with a better throwing skill? Like you, I definitely would like to know more about them.
Maɟaŋ

Tomb Titivator

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Post Wednesday, 29th November 2017, 10:05

Re: I Don't Use Nets Enough

Nets and their various interactions are so arcane that nobody knows them by heart. Lemme give it a shot:

> Throwing skill improves accuracy, but has no effect on how long a creature is in a net.
True

>Netted monsters are top tier stabs like paralysis.
No, should be similar to confuse stabs nowadays. In the end it doesnt even matter, if you can stab it it should be dead anyway.

>Smaller monsters escape from nets more quickly than larger monsters, and this is the only monster attribute that affects escape time.

No clue. I think there was a big reform that tried to make this more understandable?

>What I can find on mulching is contradictory, but it seems to be a flat chance each time a monster escapes but 0% when a monster is killed before escaping.

Mulching is the same as other thrown weapons I think, but only in case of _missing_ the monster. Otherwise in case of killing or escaping the net is always destroyed. Net traps that miss the player never mulch.

>The only Lair monsters that can't be netted are the various flavors of elephants, and dragons in vaults.
Not true. Player ghosts, insubstantial wisps in swamp entry vaults due to insubstantial flag, jellies (see below) Despite the name "elephant slug" gastronok is not elephant size and can be netted.

>Item-eating being a thing of the past, jellies etc. can now be netted.
Jellies, due to being jellies, have rNet. (I think).

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Wednesday, 29th November 2017, 10:53

Re: I Don't Use Nets Enough

le_nerd wrote:>Netted monsters are top tier stabs like paralysis.
No, should be similar to confuse stabs nowadays. In the end it doesnt even matter, if you can stab it it should be dead anyway.


Yes the commit which semplified stab tier made net-stab weaker and same tier of confused.

>What I can find on mulching is contradictory, but it seems to be a flat chance each time a monster escapes but 0% when a monster is killed before escaping.

Mulching is the same as other thrown weapons I think, but only in case of _missing_ the monster. Otherwise in case of killing or escaping the net is always destroyed. Net traps that miss the player never mulch.


The last commit on the argument seems to point out that net are only destroyed if the monster escapes from the. Missing it or killing it before it escapes should leave an intact net.

>Item-eating being a thing of the past, jellies etc. can now be netted.
Jellies, due to being jellies, have rNet. (I think).


No idea, but this commit suggests the idea they can actually netted. What's more I've just learned TRJ is medium size and it can be netted. I never suspected that due the large title it has and that seems a very good strategy if it actually works - the net would prevent it to escape behind its jellies summons, plus block those summons to pest your right away.
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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le_nerd

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Post Wednesday, 29th November 2017, 11:57

Re: I Don't Use Nets Enough

A quick gladiotor test:

You throw a throwing net. The throwing net hits the ooze. The ooze is caught in the net!
_The ooze struggles against the net.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Wednesday, 29th November 2017, 12:17

Re: I Don't Use Nets Enough

The last commit on the argument seems to point out that net are only destroyed if the monster escapes from the. Missing it or killing it before it escapes should leave an intact net.


More gladiator tests:

You throw a throwing net. The throwing net hits Terence. Terence is caught in the net!
_Terence struggles against the net.
You hit Terence but do no damage. You grab Terence.
_You constrict Terence, but do no damage.
You hit Terence but do no damage. Lightning courses through Terence!
Your squeeze misses Terence.
Terence is severely wounded.
_You constrict Terence. Terence struggles against the net.
You hit Terence. You squeeze Terence, but do no damage.
Terence is almost dead.
You constrict Terence.
_You kill Terence!
Things that are here:
a flail; a runed chain mail


Eg. a netted, killed Terence does NOT leave a net behind , instead mulching it.

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nago

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Wednesday, 29th November 2017, 13:06

Re: I Don't Use Nets Enough

I also, after the above, netted a hydra and it mulched when I stabbed it to death. I vaguely recall a few years ago a YAVP where a Vp used net stabs for most of the game, and when people expressed surprised that he had enough he implied that they don't mulch as much as one would expwct. Either this is no longer the case, or both le_nerd and I had bad mulching luck.

If nets mulch every single time after killing a target, they are essentially a wand. Specifically, a wand of paralysis that purchases checking Throwing instead of MR by lowering the stab tier.

IMO nets should either generate more frequently, or be removed.
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

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Majang, nago

Mines Malingerer

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Post Wednesday, 29th November 2017, 16:30

Re: I Don't Use Nets Enough

Nets... I could've lived so many times if I'd remembered.
In Ziggurat:27 born and raised, on the Zot stairs where I spent most of my days chilling out maxing, relaxing all cool and all shooting some b-breath outside of lungs. When a couple CK - they were up to no good - started makin trouble in my neighbourhood!

Tartarus Sorceror

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Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Wednesday, 29th November 2017, 16:53

Re: I Don't Use Nets Enough

OMG the ObjStats results that Siegurt shared recently show that on average, 5 nets spawn per game, with an additional 7 in Shoals per game.
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

Spider Stomper

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Post Wednesday, 29th November 2017, 17:27

Re: I Don't Use Nets Enough

MainiacJoe wrote:OMG the ObjStats results that Siegurt shared recently show that on average, 5 nets spawn per game, with an additional 7 in Shoals per game.

Yeah. Save them for ancient liches.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Wednesday, 29th November 2017, 17:49

Re: I Don't Use Nets Enough

crawlnoob wrote:
MainiacJoe wrote:OMG the ObjStats results that Siegurt shared recently show that on average, 5 nets spawn per game, with an additional 7 in Shoals per game.

Yeah. Save them for ancient liches.

But if you aren't heavily invested in stabbing, it can still cast its spells and you've essentially wasted a turn.
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

Spider Stomper

Posts: 248

Joined: Monday, 4th September 2017, 10:53

Post Wednesday, 29th November 2017, 18:24

Re: I Don't Use Nets Enough

You dont need to be heavily invested, you just need to be able to take advantage of the stab bonus, period. In my experience, they die very fast when netted whether you are are SB wielding KoAs or a LB using MiFi. Dont underestimate the power of a tier2 stabbing bonus, which is what nets give.

They are also stupidly easy to net for whatever reason. I don't think I've ever missed.

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