[GUIDE] BaTm of Chei


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Post Friday, 15th September 2017, 20:40

[GUIDE] BaTm of Chei

This guide is for a Barachi Transmuter of Cheibriados.

So, first of all, why?
Well, everyone knows that naga transmuters go on pretty well with Chei, but I always thought they lacked something. Then I saw Barachi. So let's have a look at the race: They're slow, but still faster than Nagas, capable of swimming, have some surprisingly good aptitudes for a transmuter (almost everything better than Nagas, notably +1 unarmed and transmutations, and +2 Fight) and the best part: a pseudo controlled blink that works everywhere, all that at the cost of a small stealth penalty.

Now, regarding class choice: I really don't know why aren't transmuters recommended for Barachians. Transmuters are very strong because they can easily get the required resistances to face certain situation and don't have to worry that much about armor, since it usually gets melded. Additionally, their starting skill and stat boosts suit the Barachi very well, and I like being capable of training Transmutations from the very beginning of the game. Other viable background choices are Fighter, Monk and possibly Ice mage, but you'd need to rely on fiding a book of Changes or Transfigurations, and that may happen too late to be viable, so it's your own risk.

Finally, god choice: While a transmuter could be successful with a wide variety of gods, I personally recommend Chei. Chei will love the fact that you're slow, which will earn you piety really fast. Mind though that he is not a beginner's god. The slow penalty will make you take 1~3 attacks, maybe more, for every one move you make, that's for an average speed monster. Besides that (and not being able to use anything haste related), Chei gives you really powerful boosts: Slouch and +15 to all stats, which are the main reason I recommend picking Chei. Just keep in mind that whatever god you pick, don't pick Trog nor Zin, as they hate spells/transmutations. Recommended options are Ash, TSO, and Jyiva.

So, without furder ado, let's go to the guide.

Walkthrough

  • Early Game
This is by far the hardest part of the game for a BaTr. The lack of an innate rPois makes the adder extremly dangerous, and invisible enemies will exploit your slowness. The lack of proper armor will also make most hits hurt real bad, so always try to fight enemies on a 1v1 basis, and remember to hop!

Skills: Transmuters need a lot of different skills, so managing them is hard, but this is a good start point: Start with focused UC and active Transmutation. Learn Sticks to snakes at level 2 and Spider form at level 3. Always focus on Int. When you reach lvl 3, turn on Poison magic until you can manage spider form (around skill lvl 2), then turn it off and turn on Fighting. Also turn spellcasting on until you can learn ice form. When you learn Ice form turn off spell casting and turn on Ice magic to get ice form castable (this will be your main form for a long time). When you find Chei you'll have to find a spot to train Invocations, but that is only needed to get slouch to a 1% fail (around skill level 10) Note: If you find Chei before temple you may wish to delay levelling Inv to get Ice form reliable first. If you have xp to spare, put it in dodge until around 8.

Spells: Your spell priority is Spider and Ice form. I don't really like using blade hands (i.e. I usually don't learn it until late game) because Ice form deals almost as much damage and grants you a very good AC, which is not viable for blade hands (better armor makes spellcasting almost impossible, and you don't have the spare xp to level armor now. Keep an eye out for Confusing touch, as more than applying confsion on a successful hit, it increases your hit chance. Also get Ozocubu's Armour as soon as you can, because it is a huge boost to AC in ice/spider form and will be very useful against Hydras.

On the first few levels of the dungeon your main concern is gonna be adders. They hit hard and their poison can easily kill you, moreover, they're fast, so no easy escaping here. For them, spam stick to snakes until you have 3 snakes or one adder. You'll only get 50% of the exp, but it's safer than going melee. For everything else all you really need is Beast appendage. If you find a nicely branded (elec, venom) dagger or whip you may use it until unarmed becomes more reliable. For groups of orcs, specially if there are orc priests/mages, centaurs and sky beasts the best option is Spider form, because of high evasion and ok mov speed, venom also help wonders. Be extremly careful with Sigmund: he is fast, can become invisible and attacks from a distance, and his weapon may also be branded. If you find an early Elyvilon altar you may pray for him, as he won't get mad when you swap out for Chei, and some healing can help. Also, keep in mind that ice form grants you rPois and extra AC, so it's extremly effective against adders, ants and scorpions.

  • Mid Game
Mid game starts after you've worshipped Chei and around the time you've reached Lair. Ice form is your best friend here, and you should keep and eye out for the Book of Transfigurations (Or any book with statue form, dragon form or hydra form). Keep in mind that sometimes it's better to spend a turn ending your transformation so that you can hop and flee from potential threats.

Skills: Here you'll have to see what are you in most need of. You should have UC focused, Fighting and Transmutations active and one additional skill active, depending on your setup. You can drop Transmutations if you have Ice form under 8% fail rate and no other Transmutation spells to learn. Get Invocations to 10 if you haven't yet, level some armour to use leather armour, learn more spellcasting to get hunger manageable and some extra spell slots/MP. If you manage to get a buckler, level shields to 4, and finally continue levelling dodging to around 11~12. Also, level spell schools dependending on the spells you find in the game

Spells: You should have a few spell slots now, so you can try to get blink, summon butterflies, apportation and regeneration. Statue form can make Lair and its branches quite trivial, and dragon form will allow for huge damage but even if you can't find any of these, lair is still quite doable with only ice form. You can forget stick to snakes right now to free 2 spell slots. Get better transmutations spells and keep an eye out for Controlled blink/teleport and Deflect Missiles, abjuration and aura of abjuration will also be really useful later on, and finally, Necronomicon has one of the best spells set in the game (but you probably won't be able to cast any of them, so don't learn them yet)

My personal recommendation after getting Chei is that you continue on the main branch of the dungeon until D:12~13. They're usually easier than Lair, and the extra xp will come in handy. Then go back to Lair and clear it before doing any other branches. Regarding hydras: Cast ice form, Ozocubu's armor and maybe confusing touch. 4~6 headed hydras shouldn't be a problem, but 7+ can still kill you, so be careful. Also, ending your transformation to hop is not a good idea, as hydras can easily kill you before you get the chance to flee, and even if you manage to do so, they'll easily catch you again. You should have slouch by now, but remember that it will only deal around a 3rd of the hydra's HP as damage, and it may be invaluable when surrounded by a pack of (death) yaks or (dire) elephants, so I'd save it for that. If you find a runed door in lair 6 don't open it yet, as there's a dragon inside, so leave it for later. After Lair you can either finish doing Dungeon 13~15 or go to Orc. I usually go to Orc 1 and then D:13-15, then go back to Orc 2. Check out the shops in orc 2 and mark everything that could be useful later, buy stuff that looks really good, and for scroll of acquirements try going for either books or Jewlery, as they don't get melded. Don't do Elf right now, go back to lair and try doing one of the Branches first. On a side note: I persoanlly like to bet with mutations at this point. I usually save my potions of mutation and eat 4~6 chunks of mutagenic meat, then, if a mutation is too bad to bear with I quaff the potions until I can get rid of it. While thi is risky, it can provide some pretty good inherent bonuses (i.e. clarity, resistances, stat bonuses) and each mutation reduces the chance you'll acquire a new one, making it a last resort mutation resistance (Keep in mind that some mutations can easily get you killed though, so watch out for them)

If you have Swamp, it is probably the easiest one for you to do. Ice form can get you through it all, but rCorr and rElec really help here, so try to get them. If you're unlucky enough to find the Lernaean Hydra it is probably best that you run as far as you can from here ;) (No, really, leave this for later, that unique is extremly strong against you rn)

If you have Shoals I'd recommend being really careful here. Try doing the poison branch first, then get as much MR as you can and do it with extreme caution. Merfolks attack from afar and sirens won't allow you to flee, and being slow will be a real danger here. Dodge is very important and stealth can help too, try luring merfolks to dry land, even though you can swim, and avoid fighting too many of them at once. Slouch when you need to get out of dangerous situations and clarity really helps. Also, here is one of the few places in the game where invisibility is really useful.

If you have Spider Lair you can probably get it done with Ice form as well (Not spider form, as it gives you vulnerability to poison). Be extremly cautious with emperor scorpions. Orb spiders will also be a real trouble, but you can use Temporal Distortion to get them closer to you (just don't get surrounded). Summon butterflies works wonders here as well, because it reveals those nasty webs and serve as LOS blockers for those Orbs.

Finally, if you have Snake Pit, you should keep in mind that Nagas base speed is slower than yours, so you have a smaller piety gain (You still gain piety bc Cheibriados slows you as your piety grows) and smaller slouch damage. Additionally, almost every enemy in this branch can poison you, making rPois a must, but ice form has the problem of gibing rF-, and salamanders deal pretty nasty fire damage, so there is no easy way out of here. If you have statue form it is probably your form of choice here, but try to get rElec and rF++. Overall a very dangerous branch.

If you've found the runed door in Lair:6 now it's a good time to open it.

  • Late Game
The third rune is much harder than the other 2, and requires a very careful approach.

Skills: UC should be near 27 now. Fighting should be around 23. The rest depends on how you levelled them, but Transmutations should be around 12, dodge should be kept training, and maybe a bit of stealth. Summonings, Conjurations and Necromancy are valid schools to be high levelled. A bit of charms and translocations are also very useful. Armour should only be high if you've found a really good piece of heavy armour. Spellcasting should be high as well so that every school has smaller failure chance. Fighting, Spellcasting and Dodging should be aimed to lvl 27. You can also have some levels of Evocations, if you like (I usually don't)

Spells: You absolutely need better forms now. Statue form can get you all the way to the orb and out, dragon form really helps as well (Ozucubu's armour also works on dragon form). Hydra form is not very useful late game, but still better than nothing. Necromutation works absolutely amazingly, and is almost mandatory for extended (You can try to find it on Abyss or Pan, but there are games where Necronomicon never spawns). Deflect missiles is a must, specially if you haven't found a reflection/repulsion equipment. Some high level summonings can really help you as well (But keep in mind that abjuration exists, so you can be left empty handed quite easily)

After doing the branches, you should do Elf:1-2, but be extremly cautious with distortion branded weapons, and elf mages who can cast banishment (The Abyss will be really hard for you, if you get banished try finding an exit asap.). MR shines here. If you're confident (and have at least MR+++) you can attempt to do Elf:3 (Really good equipments here), otherwise leave it for later. Clear Vaults:1-4 with extra caution, then go to the Depths and clear them. If you have Necromutation or at least rN++ you can attempt to do the Crypt, it shouldn't be very hard (it is very trivial with necromutation), then go clear Vault 5 with extreme caution. Remember to stair dance, as Vaults:5 can easily overwhelm you with enemies. Watch out for Ancient Liches, specially if they have petrify (This can get you killed real fast), and remember Vault Wardens can block escape routes. Convokers can also be a major threat if they manage to summon too many enemies.

Now you should go for Zot:1~5 and clear everything except for the orb vault. Orbs Of Fire are your main concern here, as even with rF+++ they still deal a lot of damage (and a lot of times, as you're slow), but besides that, it shouldn't be too hard. Remember that albeit controlled blink/teleport doesn't work, your hop still works as normal, so use it when you need. You can now decide wether you want to go for extended or not. If not, grab the orb and run as fast as you can, ignoring as many enemies as possibly. Hop, dodge and sucessfully run away with the orb. Remember that many out of depth monsters will spawn, some of which have some very powerful spells, so get rid of them fast. Summon butterflies can really help as well. If you otherwise choose to go for extended you need to be prepared.

  • Extended Game
To go for extended you either need statue form or necromutation, preferrably the latter. You'll also need very good equipment, providing the necessary resistances for each branch.

Skills: You should have UC and Fighting at 27 now, I'd recommend levelling spellcasting and dodging to 27 as well. Some more stealth will help offset your penalty and make it easier to avoid drawing too much aggro. Necromancy has a wide variety of useful late game spells, but avoid training it expecting to find a certain spell. Summonings and Conjurations can help you pack a punch when things get tough, so having at least one of them is very useful. Earth school also has some high damage dealing spells, so if everything else fails you still have that. Armour depends on what equipment you've got, but even with only leather you can still level Armour to a considerable amount (And keep in mind that because of Ozucubu's Leather is usually better than both ring and scale mails, as it doesn't inccur penalties).

Spells: You must get statue form or necromutation. The very least, you need dragon form. Borgnjor's Revivification, Death's Door, Dragon's Call, Summon Horrible Things, Aura of Abjuration, Dispel Undead and Dispersal are all very useful spells for late game

You should first attempt to get the Slime Pits Rune. Get some form of corrosion resistance an head there. Be extra careful with the walls, as they can damage and corrode you. Slime:1-4 shouldn't be a problem, although there are some strong jelly enemies and shining eyes can Malmutate you. Real problem is Slime:5 though, as The Royal Jelly is a very hard and smart boss. Slouch can help you here, but again, only around 1/3 of the slimes HP will be taken with each cast. Also keep in mind that the more you hit TRJ the more smaller Jellies she will produce, so head against a wall and focus on TRJ, when it runs away you can try to slouch or hit it with another spell you have.

Next, there is the Abyssal rune, so head to the Abyss and dive to level 3, you shouldn't need to go further, but if you do, remember that it gets harder at every level. A lost of enemies here can cause bad mutations on you, so mutation resistance is very good. If you don't have the Necronomicon here is a very good place to search for it, as levels are infinite. Keep in mind that enemies here are strong though, and can easily overwhelm you if you're not careful. When you find the rune search for an exit and go back to the dungeon.

Now you can either go to Pan or Hell. I honestly recommend going to hell, as Pan lords are very hard compared to Hell. If you're going to hell grab some fire resistance and enter it. Kill Geryon and clear the first level, no real threats here besides that. Now you have to choose which Hell branch you're going to do. For all of them rN+++ is recommended because of Hell's effects. Also, keep in mind that recovering health is really hard as monsters continually spawn around you, and torment is a frequent matter as well. The best strategy is to run as fast as you can to the last level and kill the Hell Lord. Also, remember that there are no upstairs in hell, which means that going back one level takes you all the way to the main hell room, making it so that you have to go through all levels again. Finally, Lich form (Necromutation) shines bright here because of rN+++ and it's complemte immunity to one of the hell's biggest problem: Torment. Statue form also really helps because of 50% torment damage.

Gehena: It is probably the easiest one if you have rF+++. Watch out for damnation though, as it can easily eat up half of your life and clear any summons you may have. Hop is a little bit dangerous here because you can fall in lava and die, so make sure of where you can land before you do so (Also remember that Lich/statue form allows you to hop)

Cocytus: Pretty much the same as Gehena, but for rC+++. Also, the Lord of this branch is the hardest hitting most resilient boss in the game, so you definitely want a high EV here. This branch has the advantage of not having Damnations, so that's one thing we don't need to worry about. If you don't have rTorm be extra careful with Ice fiends though

Tartarus: By far the hardest branch of Hell. Leave it last, if possible. If you're not with Lich Form, Shadow Fiends will overwhelm you with Torment, if you are in Lich form, though, they will overwhelm you with dispel undead, so there's no real easy way through Tartarus. rN+++ is a must, and extreme caution is advised. Silent Spectres will also prevent you from casting anything, but they also prevent enemies from casting, so leaving them alive or not is a strategy to be considered.

The Iron City of Dis: You need a bit of everything here (rF, rC and rN). The main problem of this branch is that enemies are really resilient, and the amount of Damnations cast at you is far greater than any other branch. Also, slouch isn't that useful because enemieer generally slow here, so damage is minimal.

After clearing Hell you should head for Pan. Pan has an infinite amount of levels, but what we're looking for are the unique Lords of Pandemonium. Keep in mind that when you leave a realm of pandemonium you'll never be able to come back, so make sure you're not leaving a rune behind or it will be lost forever. Before you enter Pandemonium though you should make sure you have means of getting rF+++, rC+++, rN+++, rElec, rPois, rTorm, escape options and extra inv space, as they'll all be needed in different realms.

As you travel through Pan realms though you'll eventually come across the Demonic rune. If it is a common realm kill the pan lord and retrieve it (Or apport it and run). If it is in one of the unique sets, take extra care as it is usually far more dangerous than a simple pan realm. A special note for TSO fortress though: do not use Lich form or you'll be dead before you know it.

If you need further guiding through Pandemonium you should read the wiki article: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Pandemonium as each lord should be carefully beaten with different strategies. Lich form is not as needed here as in Hell, so you can afford to use dragon form for maximum damage output.

Finally, there's Tomb. The hardest branch ain the game. Best strategy here is to cast Lich form, Aura of Ajuration and avoid fighting packs of enemies, luring them and fleeing as needed. Watch out for Greater Mummies, as they can smite you to death quite easily and make your way to the last rune in the game, the go to the Orb and run away to safety (:

I hope you guys can make good use of this guide, good luck to y'all!
Last edited by bootzin on Saturday, 16th September 2017, 02:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Friday, 15th September 2017, 21:22

Re: [GUIDE] BaTr of Chei

oh boy here we go

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Post Friday, 15th September 2017, 21:32

Re: [GUIDE] BaTr of Chei

I knew what I was getting into when I clicked on a guide that had the combo abbreviation written incorrectly. Sorry, this is a journal about a character you played one time - it can't be generalized as a guide as most of the advice is actually wrong, and I hope you can learn why with experience. Good luck.
mikee_ has won 166 times in 396 games (41.92%): 4xDSFi 4xMDFi 3xDDCK 3xDDEE 3xHOPr 2xDDHe 2xDDNe 2xDSBe 2xKeAE 2xMfCr 2xMfSt 2xMiAr 2xMiBe 2xNaTm 1xCeAr 1xCeAs 1xCeBe 1xCeEn 1xCeFE 1xCePa 1xCeTm 1xCeWz 1xDDAs 1xDDCr 1xDDHu 1xDDTm 1xDENe 1xDEWz

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Post Friday, 15th September 2017, 22:28

Re: [GUIDE] BaTr of Chei

Here is the list of gods that I think are better than Chei for a BaTm:
Ash, Dith, Ely, Fedhas, Gozag, Hep, Jiyva, Kiku, Lugonu, Makhleb, Nemelex, Okawaru, Ru, Sif, Uskayaw, Vehumet, Wu Jian, Yred, TSO

Many blessings on your DCSS journey

e: I skimmed the rest of the post too and there are a lot of other things I disagree with, if op is interested I will send a pm or post itt again
Last edited by Hellmonk on Friday, 15th September 2017, 22:36, edited 2 times in total.

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Post Friday, 15th September 2017, 22:30

Re: [GUIDE] BaTr of Chei

It's really fascinating the way character guides like this are so uniformly filled with overly specific and bad advice, bad opinions, and basic factual errors. If your game is at a place where you can write something like this that is accurate and contains reasonable advice, you realize that the format makes no sense. 90% of what you'd say that actually matters applies to most other characters too, it doesn't make a lot of difference exactly what you do with skill and spell selection within reasonable bounds that are nebulous and hard to define, and so on.

A reasonable guide of this kind doesn't really exist in the first place. If you have the judgement and experience to put together a document with useful advice for newer players, you see that.

edit: Also, folks, please no jokes about your "grand mummy."
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Post Saturday, 16th September 2017, 22:11

Re: [GUIDE] BaTm of Chei

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Post Sunday, 17th September 2017, 06:43

Re: [GUIDE] BaTm of Chei

IMHO guides should require some extensive knowledge of game mechanics, advice to train armour for being able to use leather armour as Tm of Chei reminded me that we still don't see "You will reach next AC point at level X in Armour with your current equipment" in body armour description
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Post Sunday, 17th September 2017, 18:53

Re: [GUIDE] BaTm of Chei

Bootzin, I know you put a lot of effort into the guide, and far more into winning a BaTm^Chei, which is not an easy combo.

I hope the responses you've gotten here don't discourage you from being part of the crawl community.

I suggest you play and win several more BaTM, on public servers. These will give you something to point to as examples of successful uses of the guide, as well as give you a better feel for what improvements the guide needs.

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Post Wednesday, 20th September 2017, 13:54

Re: [GUIDE] BaTm of Chei

Rast wrote:I hope the responses you've gotten here don't discourage you from being part of the crawl community.

From my own experience I can say that writing a guide is the one thing this community will never forgive you.
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Post Wednesday, 20th September 2017, 13:57

Re: [GUIDE] BaTm of Chei

Well, I think only a few people could blame a guide for XxYy combo written by a person who has won 5+ XxYy's in a row because obviously the guide works indeed.
Unless it is a MiBe or something which can be easily won despite bad play of course :)
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Post Wednesday, 20th September 2017, 14:00

Re: [GUIDE] BaTm of Chei

There are people here who object to the very idea of a guide, no matter how well researched or written.
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Post Wednesday, 20th September 2017, 14:17

Re: [GUIDE] BaTm of Chei

Majang wrote:There are people here who object to the very idea of a guide, no matter how well researched or written.

This guide was well-received I think.
HOFEMDHeHuReMDHuHOCjDsHuNaCjHuHuSENeGEFEMDBeDDFiHOWzVpVMHuEE{HEMoDEHuDDAs}{HaBeKoAK}CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCj,GhMo,HuVM{HaAM,BaEn}{HuMo,HOWn},DsWz

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Post Wednesday, 20th September 2017, 15:09

Re: [GUIDE] BaTm of Chei

I succumbed once to the temptation to write a guide. And I learned a lot and it was a profitable if embarrassing experience. I learned enough that I've been thinking of writing another, not because it wold help others as much as the act of writing things down and the feedback helps me.
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Post Wednesday, 20th September 2017, 15:33

Re: [GUIDE] BaTm of Chei

MainiacJoe wrote:I succumbed once to the temptation to write a guide. And I learned a lot and it was a profitable if embarrassing experience. I learned enough that I've been thinking of writing another, not because it wold help others as much as the act of writing things down and the feedback helps me.

Writing down what happened and what decisions you made (and why) is a positive experience (if somewhat tedious at times) just don't call it a "guide", presenting it as a teaching tool sets up the expectation that you think you are an authoritative expert, which given the forums population is unlikely to be true.
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Post Wednesday, 20th September 2017, 19:16

Re: [GUIDE] BaTm of Chei

and invisible enemies will exploit your slowness.
Which invis monsters early game? Unseen horrors? You can kill those with just one slouch.

My playstyle for some transmuters is heavy armour+blade hands (good def+strong attack, with Chei you can cast BH in heavy armour) because you are not guaranteed to find high-level tansmutation spells in every game.
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Post Friday, 29th September 2017, 16:34

Re: [GUIDE] BaTm of Chei

For BaTm there is only one guide I would follow: build up anything that helps you kill the early enemies. For a transmuter is can very well be a Sticks to Snakes spell if you get to a XL2 and Spider Form even further. It may be the the dagger of venom or electrocution or anything you may wield. It may be a wand of iceblast or wand of confusion.

What I'm saying here that there is no clear walkthrough guide to a game combo this specific. Heck, there is not a clear guide of doing a minotaur berserker even though attempt to write that would be an easier task than doing BaTm.

Guys above there already stated that your guide is a travel story. That is what it was. Now, I have given wrong advice many times, have been corrected. Sometimes harshly, sometimes politely. Check my first posts if you think I knew what was going on! Nevertheless, our long-time members here did shoot you down and they did it specifically because you called your playthrough a 'guide'.

Just do not be discouraged to be a part of this forum and keep posting if you feel like it. New members are more than welcome.

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