Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?


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Mines Malingerer

Posts: 45

Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 18:08

Post Wednesday, 26th July 2017, 20:19

Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

I'm playing a demonspawn wizard (mostly summoning) and have been walking around for quite some while now with the "+9 ring mail of the Tuna {rF- Int+4 Dex+7}". It gives me a respectable armour class, and the Int bonus helps to off-set any spell failure it could give me. (All my spells have an excellent success rate at the moment.) Still, I continue to agonise over whether to use it or not. It just seems bad to have a caster walking around in ring mail. Obviously, the fire vulnerability sucks too, even though I'm cancelling it with a pair of boots. I've got some other armour options, including a +2 robe of fire resistance and the +1 leather armour of Xiochi {rElec rN+}, which gives me 10 AC less but makes my resistances look a lot better. Any advice?

Character dump:
  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20.1 (tiles) character file.

Xthuul the Thaumaturge (Demonspawn Wizard)         Turns: 43881, Time: 08:03:39

Health: 123/123    AC: 20    Str: 19    XL:     16   Next: 42%
Magic:  58/58      EV: 18    Int: 28    God:    Sif Muna [*****.]
Gold:   1299       SH:  7    Dex: 22    Spells: 3/44 levels left

rFire    . . .     SeeInvis +   v - staff of power
rCold    + . .     Gourm    .   y - +2 buckler
rNeg     + . .     Faith    .   w - +9 ring mail of the Tuna {rF- Int+4 Dex+7}
rPois    .         Spirit   .   u - +2 hat {SInv}
rElec    .         Reflect  .   h - scarf {cloud immunity}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   D - +1 pair of gloves
MR       +....     Rnd*Rage +   J - +0 pair of boots of Alimimn {rF+ Str+8}
Stlth    +++.......             s - amulet "Kosmerr Bici" {RegenMP Str+2}
Regen    0.7/turn               N - ring "Cilot" {Wiz +Inv rC+}
MPRegen  0.6/turn               d - ring of magical power

@: studying Fighting, divine energy
A: antennae 2, camouflage 1, see invisible, berserk 1, foul stench 1, negative
energy resistance 1, powered by pain 1, regeneration 1, strong 1, rot immunity,
MP-powered wands, sanguine armour 3
a: Stop Divine Energy, Channel Magic, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion, Evoke
Invisibility


You are on level 2 of the Swamp.
You worship Sif Muna.
Sif Muna is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and seen 27 of its levels.
You have also visited: Bailey.

You have collected 2759 gold pieces.
You have spent 1460 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 a - the +0 pair of boots of the Peasants {Str+3}
   (You acquired it in a bailey)   
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
 h - a scarf of cloud immunity (worn)
 u - a +2 hat of see invisible (worn)
 w - the +9 ring mail of the Tuna (worn) {rF- Int+4 Dex+7}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+7).
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
 y - a +2 buckler (worn)
 z - the +1 leather armour of Xiochi {rElec rN+}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Swamp)   
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 D - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
 J - the +0 pair of boots of Alimimn (worn) {rF+ Str+8}
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (+8).
   It protects you from fire.
Magical Staves
 j - an uncursed staff of summoning
 r - an uncursed staff of death
 v - an uncursed staff of power (weapon)
Jewellery
 d - a ring of magical power (right hand)
 f - the ring "Woschap" {rF- Int+5 SInv Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of intelligence]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+5).
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It lets you see invisible.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 s - the amulet "Kosmerr Bici" (around neck) {RegenMP Str+2}
   (You took it off an orc warrior in a bailey)   
   
   [amulet of magic regeneration]
   
   It increases your magic regeneration.
   It affects your strength (+2).
 E - a ring of magical power
 H - the ring of Greed {Fire MR+ Str+2 Dex+2}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 8 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of fire]
   
   It enhances your fire magic.
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It protects you from fire.
   It makes you vulnerable to cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 K - the ring "Nozi Ito" {+Fly rElec}
   (You acquired it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of flight]
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you fly.
 N - the ring "Cilot" (left hand) {Wiz +Inv rC+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of wizardry]
   
   It improves your spell success rate.
   It protects you from cold.
   It lets you turn invisible.
Wands
 c - a wand of lightning (?/15)
 q - a wand of polymorph (?/24) {zapped: 5}
 C - a wand of iceblast (?/15)
 I - a wand of acid (?/15)
 P - a wand of lightning (?/15) {zapped: 3}
 V - a wand of digging (?/24) {zapped: 4}
Scrolls
 b - 2 scrolls of blinking
 e - 8 scrolls of teleportation
 i - 2 scrolls of fog
 l - 4 scrolls of immolation
 t - 7 scrolls of identify
 F - a scroll of torment
 R - 5 scrolls of remove curse
 T - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 U - 2 scrolls of fear
 W - 2 scrolls of summoning
 Z - a scroll of recharging
Potions
 n - a potion of haste
 x - 5 potions of flight
 A - 7 potions of curing
Books
 g - Sif Muna's Tome of Congealing Attacks
   (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 15 of the Dungeon)   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Fulminant Prism              Conjuration/Hexes             4
    b - Bolt of Cold                 Conjuration/Ice               6
    c - Simulacrum                   Ice/Necromancy                6
    d - Glaciate                     Conjuration/Ice               9
 k - a Young Poisoner's Handbook   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Sting                        Conjuration/Poison            1
    b - Poisonous Vapours            Poison/Air                    2
    c - Mephitic Cloud               Conjuration/Poison/Air        3
    d - Olgreb's Toxic Radiance      Poison                        4
    e - Venom Bolt                   Conjuration/Poison            5
 B - a book of Geomancy   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Sandblast                    Earth                         1
    b - Passwall                     Transmutation/Earth           2
    c - Stone Arrow                  Conjuration/Earth             3
    d - Petrify                      Transmutation/Earth           4
    e - Lee's Rapid Deconstruction   Earth                         5
 G - a manual of Fighting
Comestibles
 m - a royal jelly
 o - 38 fruits
 p - 12 meat rations


   Skills:
 * Level 10,4 Fighting
 - Level 3,0 Staves
 - Level 5,2 Armour
 + Level 9,2 Dodging
 - Level 1,7 Stealth
 + Level 1,9 Shields
 * Level 14,7 Spellcasting
 - Level 9,2 Conjurations
 * Level 13,6 Summonings
 - Level 6,0 Translocations
 - Level 6,6 Air Magic
 - Level 6,0 Poison Magic
 + Level 7,2 Invocations


You have 3 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         1%          1    None
b - Airstrike             Air            ######....   1%          4    None
c - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ######..     1%          3    None
d - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      #####...     1%          3    None
e - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
f - Summon Forest         Summ/Tloc      ######....   1%          5    None
g - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      #####.....   1%          2    None
h - Aura of Abjuration    Summ           #######...   1%          5    None
i - Recall                Summ/Tloc      N/A          1%          3    None
j - Summon Demon          Summ           #######...   1%          5    None
k - Shadow Creatures      Summ           N/A          1%          6    ####...
l - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       #####...     1%          2    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:7            Lair (6/6) D:8
  Swamp (3/4) Lair:2        Snake (0/4) Lair:2        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (2/2) D:9             Elf (0/3) Orc:2        Vaults (0/5) D:14
 Depths (0/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:8 =   D:9 (   D:14 (=*   Orc:2 *(%:

Portals:
Pandemonium: Orc:2

Annotations:
D:1 potion behin statues


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have a pair of antennae on your head.
You may emit foul miasma when damaged in melee.
You resist negative energy. (rN+)
You sometimes gain a little power by taking damage.
You are immune to rotting.
When seriously injured, your bleeding wounds create very thick armour. (AC +0)
Your skin changes colour to match your surroundings (Stealth+).
You have supernaturally acute eyesight. (SInv)
You tend to lose your temper in combat.
Your natural rate of healing is unusually fast.
Your muscles are strong. (Str +2)
You expend magic power (3 MP) to strengthen your wands.
Victories: DrEE (3), GrFi (3), MiBe (6), MuFE (15), MfGl (4), DDFi (4)

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1233

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57

Post Wednesday, 26th July 2017, 20:47

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

I'd wear it. It's not easy for casters to get good AC, but you managed to find an opption.

As long as it doesn't impact your spell-success, and you don't actually fight fire damage with rF-, you should be fine.

Archmagi Robes can be very good for casters, but summoners don't need spellpower, so that's a non-issue.

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VictorG

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 05:12

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

Crawl is trying to tell you that you should stop training magic and become a hybrid as intended. Seriously, you are wz, ds, manual of fighting, foul stench, powered by pain...
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2229

Joined: Sunday, 18th December 2011, 13:31

Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 07:49

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

An enchanted ring mail is a perfectly fine armour for a caster, unless having ozo armor, robe of archmagi or being a DE (as they have terrible str).
A +9 ring mail is an awesome armor for a spellcaster, most probably you won't find anything better ever - considering that the rf- is freely offset by your boots.
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 11:13

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

VictorG wrote:It just seems bad to have a caster walking around in ring mail.

This is a conceptual meta-constraint. Crawl doesn't care what you started as so long as you can keep making progress. The practical hurdle for a caster wearing non-light armour is spell success - you've overcome that (I suspect the +8 Str from your boots helps a lot).

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duvessa, Gigaslurp, nago, WingedEspeon

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 45

Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 18:08

Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 15:41

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

Thanks for the advice! It's made me understand Crawl slightly better -- both in terms of what are good item choices for a caster-type, and what might be the relevant situations in which to consider going hybrid.

Unfortunately, this character got banished into the Abyss and then quickly died. That's the second character in a row that dies from banishment; first a Minotaur Fighter, around level 12 or so, that got hit by a weapon of distortion, and now my level 17 'summoner' that got banished by some elf's spell. Both times, it felt like I had no chance at all in the Abyss. The enemies that spawned were way above my level, and even though I did nothing but run, they quickly overwhelmed me. Has the Abyss been made substantially harder somewhere in the past years? I seem to remember that around, say, version 0.11 or so, even low-level characters had a fair chance of surviving banishment, but that no longer seems to be the case. It doesn't seem to fit the design philosophy of Crawl very well, though, to have monsters with a weapons or spells that basically mean insta-death. Is there something I'm missing about how to deal with banishment?
Victories: DrEE (3), GrFi (3), MiBe (6), MuFE (15), MfGl (4), DDFi (4)

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 16:02

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

Did you have scrolls of teleportation? Abyss is almost impossible without them
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 45

Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 18:08

Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 16:08

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

I thought you couldn't teleport in the Abyss, but apparently, I was wrong! So the idea is to save up your scrolls of teleportation for this unfortunate event and then read them whenever the monsters seem to be overwhelming?
Victories: DrEE (3), GrFi (3), MiBe (6), MuFE (15), MfGl (4), DDFi (4)

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1233

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57

Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 16:40

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

You can teleport in the abyss, it just takes longer (most of the time?).

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1739

Joined: Tuesday, 13th March 2012, 02:48

Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 18:21

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

VictorG wrote:Unfortunately, this character got banished into the Abyss and then quickly died. That's the second character in a row that dies from banishment; first a Minotaur Fighter, around level 12 or so, that got hit by a weapon of distortion, and now my level 17 'summoner' that got banished by some elf's spell. Both times, it felt like I had no chance at all in the Abyss. The enemies that spawned were way above my level, and even though I did nothing but run, they quickly overwhelmed me. Has the Abyss been made substantially harder somewhere in the past years?


The second banish probably took you deeper in the abyss. Regardless, even abyss:1 can be extremely nasty. Monsters spawn quickly, many of them are faster than you or have dangerous ranged attacks or hexes or summons or all of the above.

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/The_Abyss#Monsters "Several monsters unique to the Abyss" are the new ones. All extremely common and annoying/deadly to fight.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Friday, 28th July 2017, 05:11

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

VictorG wrote:I thought you couldn't teleport in the Abyss, but apparently, I was wrong! So the idea is to save up your scrolls of teleportation for this unfortunate event and then read them whenever the monsters seem to be overwhelming?
Yes. It takes longer to teleport in Abyss so you should estimate how much wounded you would be if you were fighting and if you don't like the estimations, you read the scroll and keep running/fighting/healing
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25
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Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 732

Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46

Post Friday, 28th July 2017, 09:29

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

Nowadays fighting seems to be better than running. Exit generation seems to depend on the number of monsters killed, at least partially. If you have a character that is just good at running and bad at fighting, things may look bleak for you.
Maɟaŋ

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Friday, 28th July 2017, 10:07

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

Running is better than dying while fighting. Abyss exit change didn't affect my decisions much, it was always optimal to kill many monsters.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

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Majang

Slime Squisher

Posts: 406

Joined: Thursday, 16th June 2011, 18:36

Post Friday, 28th July 2017, 18:02

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

Did you still have just one + of MR when you were Banished? Abyss is a big cull on the low-MR.

eg the ring of Greed {Fire MR+ Str+2 Dex+2}. (Ironically, the ring of magical power being worn in the dump shown is more greedy.)

I live in fear of Banish and Mark when I'm below ++. Having MR+ jewellery as a swap-in when a relevant caster comes in view can be ok if you're vigilant (I'm not).
Last edited by mattlistener on Saturday, 29th July 2017, 00:34, edited 1 time in total.
Won with: KeAE^Sif, NaWz^Sif, NaTm^Chei, SpEn^Nmlx, GrEE^Qaz, HOFE^Veh, MiBe^Trog, DrFE^Hep, FoFi^Zin, CeHu^Oka, DjFE^Ash, DrIE^Ru, FeSu^Jiy, GnCA^Usk.
In Progress:
Long-term goal: complete the pantheon.
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Barkeep

Posts: 4435

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Friday, 28th July 2017, 18:07

Re: Should my caster be wearing this ring mail?

Mod note: changed spoiler tags to code tags, for better character dump rendering
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

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