The Tavern

Is there a way into this vault, apart from perhaps corrupting the level?

This is in the center of Depths: 5, surrounded by crystal walls. (I rechecked along the north; it's completely crystal walled.) I've been looking for trap doors on the previous two levels, but so far no luck.

Can one random teleport in? Is it intended to be cosmetic/strange? Etc.

: U5 level map (crystal wall vault).jpg (13.95 KiB) Viewed 7848 times

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: ctr vault 1.jpg (80.71 KiB) Viewed 7848 times

Lee's Rapid Deconstruction makes short work of Green Crystal Walls. Just don't stand next to them as you blow them up.

I am guessing that you cannot teleport in, because magic mapping didn't reveal any up-hatches. I've gathered that approved vaults always have a hatch if there's an area one can get to only via consumable, in case the player used their last of that consumable to get there and would otherwise be stuck.

On the other hand, if LRD is the only way to get in (perhaps this vault was designed before stone of tremors went away?) then it's a bad vault IMO, since a lvl 5 spell is a non-trivial gatekeeper.

I seem to recall seeing a layout like this once before, but with a door leading into the center on one side.

It's been a long time though, so I can't be absolutely certain.

If you don't have LRD, or not enough Int/Brilliance/XP/etc. then you could try dragging a Deep Troll Earth Mage over, and then stand next to the wall...

This vault is the encompass vault "hangedman_spin_cycle"; there's nothing in the middle area except teleport traps, fountains, and empty arches of stone.

19:30:55 <Lasty> gammafunk: what's the deal with the area in the middle of hanged_man_spin_cycle?
19:31:42 <gammafunk> just kind of a secret area
19:31:55 <gammafunk> a happy, restful place

Well thank you for "filling that in" (ahem, cough, terribly bad unplanned pun?)...

By the way: Make fountains useful again (somehow, please). At least some of them. At very least the kind that sit in obscure vaults, though hopefully not always quite this obscure.

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:If you don't have LRD, or not enough Int/Brilliance/XP/etc. then you could try dragging a Deep Troll Earth Mage over, and then stand next to the wall...

I wasn't sure whether to laugh or roll my eyes about this one. Feeling a touch fragile for all that, though.

It's probably just as well there isn't anything to buy in there. I'm pretty short on gold at the moment...

You could have one of your allies stand next to the wall instead of yourself, but this is starting to stretch the 'advice' a bit.

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:You could have one of your allies stand next to the wall instead of yourself, but this is starting to stretch the 'advice' a bit.

Hmm, how do you mean "stretch"? Curious.

It's all trivia at the moment, as there's nothing valuable inside. (The draconian doesn't need a rest stop that badly yet.) I don't think there are many trolls left around the floor, although maybe a lot of wandering would generate a few.

All in all, I'm probably done with that area for the time being but it's kind of amusing to ponder.

to be clear, the interior contains permanent teleport traps and the unknown portals are just empty shops/portals. there is nothing of value inside

FR: remove that vault.

stoneychips wrote:
4Hooves2Appendages wrote:You could have one of your allies stand next to the wall instead of yourself, but this is starting to stretch the 'advice' a bit.

Hmm, how do you mean "stretch"? Curious.

[...]

To stretch the meaning of a word: to extend or enlarge beyond the usual or proper limits.

Yes, English is my first language...

I just don't see how it's particularly a stretch, so stretch in what sense?

Is using allies instead of yourself some kind of state secret? Am I going to get a few more relative points that someone else really needs to keep to themselves? Does using allies get me inside the vault that happens to have nothing inside this time, in a way that's somehow more special than not using them so it's beyond the call of advice that I should know such things? Or is there some other supposedly obvious limit to "advice" which I'm missing?

Not saying people are entitled to endless free advice, but I don't understand where exactly it became particularly distinct. One could always say, because I exceeded my word limit or I'm tired of the topic I guess... I just don't see that much of a difference so far.

stoneychips wrote:Is using allies instead of yourself some kind of state secret? Am I going to get a few more relative points that someone else really needs to keep to themselves? Does using allies get me inside the vault that happens to have nothing inside this time, in a way that's somehow more special than not using them so it's beyond the call of advice that I should know such things?

4H2Apps cracked a pretty good joke here, implying that it would be your ally triggering the earth trolls use of LRD or Shatter, in this way sacrificing itself to break open the vault, which you would then be able to investigate in all its uselessness, unharmed. That's a use of allies I can approve of. But pretty impossible to fabricate, I'm afraid.

I'm sure it's perfectly possible. Some allies are stationary, Oklobs and Lightning Spires for example, and all the player has to do is lead the troll over, then vanish, by say teleporting. The troll and ally will fight it out. The troll will probably win, because LRD on crystal walls is very damaging. And if not, find another troll! There should be plenty in depths.

What I meant with 'stretching' the idea of advice is, that the suggested action is neither necessary, nor in any way helpful, and comes with at least a modicum of risk. For the sake of winning, this is probably the opposite of advice.

It doesn't even matter if Troll wins or not. It only needs to live long enough to cast LRD a couple of times. Then it would be quite convenient if your spawn finishes it off.

-sound of points whizzing over heads-

stoneychips wrote:By the way: Make fountains useful again (somehow, please). At least some of them.

Maybe make it so your can quaff from them, to reduce hunger. And maybe a water moccasin or water nymph could rarely pop out.

ddubois wrote:
stoneychips wrote:By the way: Make fountains useful again (somehow, please). At least some of them.

Maybe make it so your can quaff from them, to reduce hunger. And maybe a water moccasin or water nymph could rarely pop out.

Sure, and you could dip items in fountains to get different effects, one of which would be a friendly demon who would give you a scroll of acquirement...

Sprucery wrote:
ddubois wrote:
stoneychips wrote:By the way: Make fountains useful again (somehow, please). At least some of them.

Maybe make it so your can quaff from them, to reduce hunger. And maybe a water moccasin or water nymph could rarely pop out.

Sure, and you could dip items in fountains to get different effects, one of which would be a friendly demon who would give you a scroll of acquirement...

But only with a really, really shitty chance of it happening, so that it's still optimal to come back and check every fountain (you annotated where they all were right?) after your character can deal with the much more likely bad effects

Also make it so nothing happens most of the time so the player has to blow a bunch of turns on it for no reason

fountains *are* useful, you can make steam clouds with them

ddubois wrote:
stoneychips wrote:By the way: Make fountains useful again (somehow, please). At least some of them.

Maybe make it so your can quaff from them, to reduce hunger. And maybe a water moccasin or water nymph could rarely pop out.

We used to be able to quaff from them for something or other (several long versions ago), but apparently they decided that was too useful.

I do think occasionally finding something inside one (not necessarily every time as quaffing used to be possible with full ones) could be interesting.

I found the exact same vault in Depths:3 as a troll so I dragged a Deep troll earth mage from depths 5 to break into the vault. I almost died along the way when I met a large pack of boggarts without SInv blocking my way and again when standing next to the crystal walls. Their spell does ridiculously large amount of damage. I wasted 100 turns watching myself heal up from robe of vines from its ineffective clawing which was fun, before I figured that out that they only do Lee's rapid deconstruction when you aren't next to them. It took loads of repeated blinks and the blowing up of the vicinity's rock walls before it finally blew a hole deep enough for me to enter. I entered the vault, admired the grass and moat, tried to enter the empty archways, summoned a few butterflies and steam the fountains and generally feel a sense of accomplishment. Can't seem to steam the fountains with my invoke minor destruction. Also entered each of the permanent teleport traps just for the heck of it. For some reason now, I don't want to leave the level.

You could leave the character on this floor, and play different versions, or even quit!

This vault is a major game balance offender. Way too much high quality loot. It should be removed or revised.

On the other hand, this empty, normally inaccessible space is good because it reduces the walkable floor space of the level. It would be good if the empty shops were made into something that wouldn't look like something you want to get to when you map the level.

watertreatmentRL wrote:This vault is a major game balance offender. Way too much high quality loot. It should be removed or revised.

It's also one of the nastier Depths floors. The monsters wake up quickly and start pouring out of all their rooms.

I actually rather like that overall floor layout.

This particular character was a draconian with plenty of stealth, but it isn't the first time I've only seen a few of the vaults open before I got around to them.

The Tavern

Vault (?) with crystal walls and no entrance?

Vault (?) with crystal walls and no entrance?

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