BaFi^Oka lacking rF


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Halls Hopper

Posts: 81

Joined: Friday, 17th April 2015, 23:46

Post Thursday, 25th May 2017, 04:17

BaFi^Oka lacking rF

I'm at the point of the game where I have to get my third rune. I've cleared Crypt and Elf, Depths and 4 floors of Vaults. I tried to do Slime as my third rune, but I got into a couple of situations with acid blobs and great orbs of eyes where I couldn't have rCorr and enough MR at the same time and it got tricky.

Now I'm planning on doing Vaults:5. The problem is I don't have any rF. There is a gold dragon armor available in game, but no scrolls of enchant armor whatsoever. I'd go from 55/17 to 43/17 (I won't lose rElec, there is a ring in game).

Another possibility that comes to my mind is playing mutation roulette in order to try to obtain rF+ that way. The game has generated 8 potions of mutation. What do you guys think of this idea? Does it make any sense? Is it too risky?

Last, I have 6 potions of resistance. Can I rely on them?

Thanks in advance.

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Thursday, 25th May 2017, 08:49

Re: BaFi^Oka lacking rF

You don't specifically need rF for V:5. The potions of resistance are enough.
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{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
Bloat: 17: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}KiPaAnDrBXDBQOApDaMeAGBiOCNKAsFnFlUs{RoBoNeWi

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Halls Hopper

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Post Thursday, 25th May 2017, 11:40

Re: BaFi^Oka lacking rF

I did Vaults:5 and it wasn't that bad. The lack of MR++++ was worse than the lack of rF+. Thanks!

EDIT: And found a large shield of resistance. Yay!

Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Thursday, 25th May 2017, 20:11

Re: BaFi^Oka lacking rF

Glad you got a shield of resistance, they're quite handy. But I don't really consider V:5 to have much in the way of fire damage; there's certainly some, with gold dragons or elf casters, some of which I swear have to have at least a chance of fire attacks? I can't think of any off the top of my head. V:5 has a lot of diversity though so there isn't really any one resistance that you really need for it, if I had to pick one elemental resistance it would probably be rN+ for shadow dragon breath.

I don't count MR as an elemental resistance and you need MR basically everywhere.

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Halls Hopper

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Post Thursday, 25th May 2017, 20:32

Re: BaFi^Oka lacking rF

tasonir wrote:V:5 has a lot of diversity though so there isn't really any one resistance that you really need for it


Yeah, this was my thought. I was picturing a situation with a fire giant and a fire dragon plus a vault warden closing the stairs... It was a little too specific, I guess.

On the other hand, I ended up having to play mutation roulette in Zot:5. Orbs of fire mutated me quite heavily. It was good that I saved those potions.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. It was my 20th win :D

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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Friday, 26th May 2017, 11:13

Re: BaFi^Oka lacking rF

quik wrote:Another possibility that comes to my mind is playing mutation roulette in order to try to obtain rF+ that way. The game has generated 8 potions of mutation. What do you guys think of this idea? Does it make any sense? Is it too risky?

I wouldn't recommend that. I don't know what the exact odds are, but we can do a very rough estimate. There are approximately ~40 'good' mutations and 15 bad mutations, some of them with multiple levels. rF+ is one of them. A potion of mutation gives up to 3 mutations, so let's say 2 on average. So per potion you've got a ~3.6% chance to get rF+. You've got an equal chance to get frail or blurry eyes. The more mutations you accumulate from the potions the lower the chance of getting rF+ is, because existing mutations will start to get modified more. Like frail 1 turning into frail 2, or claws 3 turning back into claws 2.

Edit: this is actually a bit different with the new potion of mutation. The chance of getting rf+ might be nearer 6% for a single quaff. I forgot about the 'gain one good mutation' at the end.

Generally speaking, I avoid random mutations, because I want to be able to cure the small handful of really bad mutations reliably, like blurry eyes, frail, sometimes wild magic, etc.

Once you end up with a lot of mutations (5-8?), including something really aweful, it can be beneficial to just quaff those mutation potions and eat mutagenic chunks.
Last edited by 4Hooves2Appendages on Friday, 26th May 2017, 11:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Halls Hopper

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Post Friday, 26th May 2017, 11:20

Re: BaFi^Oka lacking rF

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:I don't know what the exact odds are, but we can do a very rough estimate.


Nice analysis, thank you. Scientific thought ftw!

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:Generally speaking, I avoid random mutations, because I want to be able to cure the small handful of really bad mutations reliably, like blurry eyes, frail, sometimes wild magic, etc.


Do you mean you prefer to keep the potions of mutation available? Or is there a probabilistic reason that I'm not understanding?

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:Once you end up with a lot of mutations (5-8?), including something really aweful, it can be beneficial to just quaff those mutation potions and eat mutagenic chunks.


I don't get this. Why?

Abyss Ambulator

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Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57

Post Friday, 26th May 2017, 11:52

Re: BaFi^Oka lacking rF

Just very briefly. Mutations are largely avoidable in crawl, especially in the early game. For a 3-rune game there are usually only very few enemies with mutation powers. Slime and vaults (like neqoxecs, sometimes summoned) have some and depths and zot too, notably the difficult to avoid orbs of fire.

Most mutations only have a very small effect on the character. Having sharp toenails for example is almost entirely irrelevant.

There are a small number of potentially dangerous mutations, blurry eyes being the worst in my opinion. Being unable to blink instantly is really bad.

The current potion of mutation is a bit weird. You can use it to cure bad mutations fairly reliably, but you might pick up something else annoying. It works best if you have fewer mutations. If you have just blurry eyes 1 and frail 1 and then quaff a potion of mutation, you will lose those two mutations, then gain some random ones (could be those again, but unlikely) and then get something good.

If you already have claws, scales, shoutities, some resistances, antennae and also blurry vision and frail, then quaffing a potion of mutation may not remove the two things you really want to lose, because there's a limit to how many mutations it removes. And then of course you might end up with even more mutations, making it even harder to strip the bad ones.

Although on average potion of mutation appears to be roughly neutral as far as number of mutations lost vs gained is concerned. Of course you gain some when you have less than 2.

Edit: There are some recent changes, so more changes might happen, or I might have missed some of them. Take it with a pinch of salt. The general rule in my view still is: avoid getting mutated. Save mutation curing options for the small number of really bad things. Don't try to get specific mutations by gambling.

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Barkeep

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Post Friday, 26th May 2017, 14:40

Re: BaFi^Oka lacking rF

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:Having sharp toenails for example is almost entirely irrelevant.

wait until they add a socks slot
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Friday, 26th May 2017, 14:48

Re: BaFi^Oka lacking rF

njvack wrote:
4Hooves2Appendages wrote:Having sharp toenails for example is almost entirely irrelevant.

wait until they add a socks slot

You will still be able to wear sockes with sharp tonails, but every time you move there is a chance you will give your socks the "holes" attribute, which negates their intrinsic Rc+(feet)
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Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1233

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57

Post Friday, 26th May 2017, 15:29

Re: BaFi^Oka lacking rF

Oh, we can have hit boxes!

  Code:
The ogre hits your foot with a giant club!!
Your foot has been flattened.
Your toenails are no longer sharp.
You can move faster in water.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1233

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57

Post Friday, 26th May 2017, 20:21

Re: BaFi^Oka lacking rF

On a more serious note, the new potion of mutation can be extremely good. Unfortunately doesn't always get this lucky.

  Code:
You see here a potion of mutation.
You feel extremely strange.
You feel clever. Your yellow scales disappear. Your vision sharpens.
You feel stronger. You feel less energetic.
You feel nature experimenting on you. Don't worry, failures die fast.
Fur sprouts all over your body. Your vision sharpens.


SInv is nice for convenience, as there are some annoying ghost moths around.

I guess I'll let evolve carry on. My plan is to pay homage to Jyiva anyway.

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