Mages Finding Early Other Starting Books

[MainiacJoe]

What ought a mage do when one finds another starting book on the floor, or a book shop with several? I tend to succumb to the temptation and try to get both books online at the expense of defenses and melee. Is there ever a situation when branching into the other book is a good idea?

[Sprucery]

It all depends on the exact circumstances (what character, what books). For example, Repel Missiles is worth getting in most (all?) cases. But getting all spells from two books is probably not a very good idea.

[Siegurt]

It all depends on the exact circumstances (what character, what books). For example, Repel Missiles is worth getting in most (all?) cases. But getting all spells from two books is probably not a very good idea.

Repel missiles is not worth getting if:
1. You already have deflect missiles or
2. It doesn't exist.

[dolemite99]

Personally on any conjurations-type book start (Fe, Vm, Cj, Ie), finding these books in early-ish Dungeon is always welcome if I didn't start with that book. I'll just point out the direct damage or crowd control spells I like to add to my repertoire. Someone else can comment on support/escape spells in their commentary.

Book of Flames: Eventually with any conjurations-focused player, something is going to get into melee range. Sticky flame is very nice for that.

Book of Cantrips: Unless I'm rolling with Ely/TSO/Zin, I always want Animate Skeleton. It's a no brainer for me to spend 1 MP on something that is at its worst, a nice meat(less) shield, and at best, a tanky ally (like a Death Yak or Hydra).

Book of Geomancy: Stone Arrow and Sandblast are nice, say if I'm an Ie and I meet an Ice Beast, or if I'm a Fe and I meet a Crimson Imp or Hell Hound.

Book of Conjurations: Nice irresistable damage type, not much else to say. Shores up damage-type gaps in your Fe, Ie, Vm and Ae book starts.

Book of Minor Magic: It can be worth on-boarding Magic Dart, Summon Imp and Mephitic Cloud for situational use against foes that are weak vs. those spells.

I guess I should add that I usually try sticking with the theme of the starting book, and learn most of the spells from the start book. I find one of these other books, I might learn just one spell of Level 3 or below from the incremental book, and not totally pivot my character into a different direction based on the new book. Well, maybe if I take Kiku on an Ie, I might decide to go full-on Necromancer with Simulacrum but in most other cases I try not to take the background into a totally different spell school.

[Majang]

Usually, from the beginning of the game, I decide on two damage-dealing spell schools for my blaster. Especially when starting as an FE, which seems to be a good school to get going in the game, I want another school for the inevitable crimson imps and much worse stuff later on. Just relying on fire does not appear wise to me.
There are some synergies between elemental schools, such as Fire and Earth, or Ice and Air. The first combination gives you a very powerful Magma Bolt, the other one the delectable Freezing Cloud in the mid game.
This means, as soon as one of the spells of the second elemental schools becomes available (usually Vehumet takes care of that), I learn it and train the skill, even if that dilutes my skill training. I find that even in a three-rune game at least one, if not bot the level-9 nukes related to these schools become available, usually upon entering V5, giving me incredible flexibility to deal with all and anything the game throws at me.
But it comes at the price of depriving me of many useful support spells that other players count on, such as Controlled Blink, any high-powered summons, invisibility, etc. But who needs these if you can just take care of things by alternating Tornado and Glaciate? And lots of weaker support spells become available just by aggressively training Spellcasting, which to me is still the most crucial skill to learn for anyone who hopes to win the game by just casting spells.

[Rast]

Usually, from the beginning of the game, I decide

This is generally suboptimal in crawl.

There are a few exceptions like going UC with any troll, mahk with DD, etc. But not many.

[Sprucery]

Repel missiles is not worth getting if:
2. It doesn't exist.

Figures. Now next one to go should be Animate Skeleton.

[NhorianScum]

What ought a mage do when one finds another starting book on the floor, or a book shop with several? I tend to succumb to the temptation and try to get both books online at the expense of defenses and melee. Is there ever a situation when branching into the other book is a good idea?

Taking key spells that offer something your book lacks (excluding omg 2 elements wow) and settling for average delay on the first additive brand popcornstick you find without skimping on bulk is a viable early build.

[VeryAngryFelid]

I tend to succumb to the temptation and try to get both books online

Often it is a good idea.

at the expense of defenses and melee.

It can be a bad idea. Your MPs are not doubled when you can use spells from two books.
I often go for second book when it is superior to my first book (Animate Dead, for example) or when I feel ok about my defenses/melee.

[amaril]

You should always train the thing that gives you the most value (benefit/cost) relative to your current circumstances. So if you have a bunch of ways to do damage but low hp, fighting becomes more beneficial. Blink, summon butterflies, animate skeleton > swiftness > regeneration, spectral weapon, conjure flame are examples of spells w/ exceptional value. The higher your int/spellcasting are, the lower the cost required to get midlevel spells online: the greater value you get out of learning off-school midlevel spells.

There is no reason to view books as books rather than as lists of available spells. You aren't obliged to learn everything in your starting book. Sometimes on mage starts you should drop everything and go trog, though a lot of times doing so would hurt you.

[MainiacJoe]

The impetus for the OP was a HuVM (since deceased to a ghost) that found Callings. Callings is a strong book, but I'd already invested in Poison enough to get OTR at 12% fail and most of the summons in that book lack rPois (spire, and maybe a few imp types). So it felt like it would be completely starting over on D:4, and rejected that. If I'd found Callings on a FE or an AE or IE, well then great! Is that the correct analysis?

[amaril]

Ice beasts resist pois and regardless could be an effective means of killing rpois enemies. Ice beasts + spire are quite powerful, but so is a good melee weapon at mindelay or evokables or a better set of defenses.

One of the best things about crawl is that there are different ways to build characters and it isn't always clear what the 'correct' path is.

[MainiacJoe]

Agree re. Crawl features.

Well if I'd started Su I'd not yet have IB because unlike OTR it's dual school. If I started training Summonings now, I'd maybe get IB online in time for Lair, with absolutely nothing else trained. That was too far away, I figured I needed something else for rPois.

[NhorianScum]

The impetus for the OP was a HuVM (since deceased to a ghost) that found Callings. Callings is a strong book, but I'd already invested in Poison enough to get OTR at 12% fail and most of the summons in that book lack rPois (spire, and maybe a few imp types). So it felt like it would be completely starting over on D:4, and rejected that. If I'd found Callings on a FE or an AE or IE, well then great! Is that the correct analysis?

Callings is incredible on VM for summon lightning spire. It's just a 10/10 spell that is on-invest in air and does not hamper pois magic.

Otr/meph/vapors/spire/bolt/swing weapon is perfectly capable of clearing lair/orc/non-snake sbranches. SIB is good but is probably not worth it here.

Personally if I found calling on early VM i'd go all in on SLS if otr was already at 12% fail and I wasn't worshiping kiku.

[amaril]

It's worth noting that there's no rush to get ice beasts online. It's a powerhouse through lair branches and remains good in vaults. Lightning spire remains powerful even longer, but it doesnt carry you the way ice beasts can in the midgame.

[dolemite99]

It's worth noting that there's no rush to get ice beasts online. It's a powerhouse through lair branches and remains good in vaults. Lightning spire remains powerful even longer, but it doesnt carry you the way ice beasts can in the midgame.

I'm a relative newbie to Lightning Spire but have heard it mentioned multiple times as workhorse spell lasting deep into the game. Is that because of its high damage-per-zap? Or does the spire have very good intuitive knowledge of how to aim its bolts, or fire them very frequently, or, all of the above? Do you have to do that annoying "shout/tell" command to make the spire attack things, or does it just start blasting without being commanded to do so?

I've never ramped spires up to their max power level (in #) so, outside of narrow corridors I guess I always was dubious about how well it hangs in there in wide open spaces like Lair and large Vaults 1:4 maps, Depths, etc.

[MainiacJoe]

One thing I do know about SLS that increases its usefulness is that it can be placed exactly where you want it to block fire or make escape routes.

[tasonir]

I haven't used SLS frequently, but no I don't think you have to command it to attack. I'm not sure how often it hits, but being able to place a turret which just zaps things for you with a damage type that nearly nothing resists, is very strong. If crawl was a tower defense game it'd be very, very easy, and SLS gets you halfway there

[mattlistener]

Is that because of its high damage-per-zap?

If you can place the Lightning Spire one square from a wall and get enemies to walk between, the doublezap punches above weight for a level 4 spell.