Hybrids for Beginners

[Utis]

Hello!

I'm new to Stone Soup, I've played Angband and Nethack on and off before (but, to tell the truth: I suck at both). So far I'm simply thrilled and excited. It seems that this game has everything of what keeps me attracked to Nethack, but nothing of what turns me away after a short while. Right now my best characters continue to die at XL 8 at the very latest, but that's okay for now, I would just like to find a character strategy that I like both in flavour and tactics and on which I can concentrate in exploring the game.

But first: oy, multizapping! I just read the Wiki pages on multizapping yesterday, tried it, had a lot of fun setting up quadrozaps and thought: that's it! Today, I upgraded to 0.9 ... I'm sure it's all for the best, though, so I won't go back.

Methinks, what I would like to play is a hybrid that relies on ranged attacks with a bow in general, but also uses magic for battle field control and for special occasions. Is that feasible in Crawl? Or is it too difficult for a beginner? At any rate, unless it's too advanced, I believe a hybrid style would suit me best.

So, what would be good race/background combinations? I tried a hunter, but I quickly run out of ammo, and I read on the Wiki anyways that it would be a good idea to start with a spellcaster and train weapon skills later. So I let a couple of human wizards die for a while ... At first glance, the wizards spell selection seems very well suited to what I have in mind, but I also have a feeling that it is somewhat hazardous (i.e. not only because of my inexperience). Are there better options?

How, when and in what order should I advance my skills? When is the right time to switch default tactics? Also, what would be good Gods to choose for this style of play?

[TwilightPhoenix]

There used to be a background dedicated to that playstyle called the Arcane Marksmen. For whatever reason, it was removed. I think your best bet would be to roll up a Crusader, Warper, or Enchanter and focus on ranged attacks with them instead of melee.

[KoboldLord]

Unfortunately it is very difficult to play a martial ranged specialist starting in D1, owing to an issue you've already noticed: you are at the mercy of the RNG, and the RNG doesn't often feel like providing as much ammo as you'd need for those early levels. It gets much easier to play a martial ranged specialist later on, when you start being able to loot the ammo generated on centaur or yaktaur packs, but until then you'll have to make do an awful lot with melee or spells. This may not have the feel you're looking for.

There's a few reasonable paths you can take to being a ranged specialist, though. The first an most obvious is to take a basic melee character and go Trog or Okawaru. Either of those deities grant ammo gifts, which take a good long while to start coming in but will keep you flush with sling bullets, arrows, or crossbow bolts at all times depending on which skill you're using. Once you're close to the gifting threshold, start pumping xp into your ranged weapon skill and start the process of changing over your play style over to what you wanted it to be the whole time. Okawaru is better only if you hope to eventually use support magic.

If you think you can get enough ammo to work with even without Trog or Okawaru, Kiku is an effective choice for a one-skill study of magic that is nevertheless versatile. Pain keeps you from having to waste ammo on trivial targets, and necromancy in general contains some fairly decent battlefield control spells. The zombie mob following you will screen your escape, leaving enemies distracted while you set up a flank.

Fedhas is another deity who supports archers. You can shoot through your plant minions, and with some advance warning you can set up deep water sniping platforms. You have to find your own ammo, though.

[slowcar]

Having everything (ranged, melee, magic) is most likely a bit much for a beginner.
I would suggest two possible approaches:

Kobold Berserker. You follow Trog and are unable to use magic, but get special powers from your god. Find yourself a whip and play as a melee for a while (maces&flails until 12), when you find a sling and some bullets you can start slinging. Slings are very powerful as they are not hindered by shields, Trog will gift you unique slings and ammunition when your slings skill levels up.

High Elf Skald (or Air Elementalist or Wizard). Play as usual until you find a bow and some arrows. Personally i find the Skald being quite weak in 0.9, wizard has mephitic cloud (the multi tool spell), air elementalist has swiftness which is nice to escape or get to range for a bow.

[Utis]

I think in part my question is about learning. I was going to write: "I think, if my current character dies, I will go for a kobold, since I feel that currently I could play more cauteously, if I wouldn't feel so pressed to descend, descend, descend in order to find food." But then I reconsidered: maybe, since this is such a problem for me already in those early stages, this is exactly why I should NOT play a kobold?

I realise now: what I would also like to know is this: is the character strategy I described one that is just difficult to pull off, but that would be rewarding in the mid and end game, when I will need a surviving character in order to learn different things about the game than in the beginning? Or is it hard until the very end?

I have a High Elf Wizard worshipper of Okawaru now at XL 8, on D:7, after the temple. I have a dagger of speed +2 and short blade skill at 4, but I already switched to bows as my default attack which I have at skill level 2. (Too early? Bigger monsters like the Goliath Beetle require a LOT of ammo.) All spells in my repertoire are at least at "very good", with Blink being at excellent. My spell repertoire includes Fulsome Distillation and Evaporate, since I found a Book of Stalking. (I have also found a Book of the Earth, which, I guess, means that I should seriously consider training earth magic in the long run.)

I've had a lot of fun so far, trying to assess situations, thinking about which of the various tools in my bag would be most suited to deal with the threads I'm facing. I make sure that I have an escape route, I try to lure monsters into already explored terrain, or up to already explored levels. If a big threat is faster than me, I conjure imps as meat shields and retreat, if it gets too close I blink. If I'm standing on stairs at full health and HP, I try mephitic cloud (which until recently was only at "Good"), otherwise I go for evaporate, but also only if I can easily retreat. I try to soften up medium threats from afar, while being conservative about my HP and MP resources.

So far I had a lot of fun with this. I have felt all the time on the edge and too close to death for comfort, even at full HP and MP, but I very much like the feeling to have a lot of options at my disposal. I've tried the more straight forward combinations, recommended for beginners on the Wiki, but I found them comparatively boring.

I think part of my questions is this: Am I learning valuable skills as a player this way, or am I making it articially difficult for me? Will my character, if he manages to survive for a while, become gradually easier? Because: if I'm learning valuable player skills, then, even if he dies, I would start over with the same combination in order to consolidate these skills. Some very difficult encounters have been very rewarding, some apparently easy encounters got me almost killed. Paradigmatic for this is D:4, where I fought in the open against a horde of orcs including priests and wizards and then vanquished Sigmund, all with some safety margin, only to be brought to 1 HP by a lone fire ant.

So, again: I believe I have to learn different things about the game at different stages. Am I pursuing an approach whose fragility teaches me valuable player skills in the early game, but that is strong in the long run? Or am I making things just artificially difficult?

As for my current character: in the level below me, there is a fire drake -- dormant and I intend to avoid it --, but also the ghost of a former character of mine, a Spriggan Venom mage. I don't think I have anything to kill him at my disposal, but I'm not at all convinced that I can outrun him, especially since I haven't found the stairs down yet.

Also, with Okawaru I lose piety if my allies die? I presume this would include summons and thus make my tactics of summoning imps as meat shields problematic? I'm also wondering whether I should have reconsidered the plan of worshipping Okawaru once I found the Book of Stalking. Fulsome Distillation + Evaporate seem just that good, but if I want to use them to full extent I have no corpses left to burn.

[RFHolloway]

troll wizard

any troll spell caster feels like a hybrid. you can get quite a way with magic dart for ranged and claws for close work, plus some of the other wizard spells as utility, and darts or stones as back up ranged. You can't wear armour (and wouldn't want to as a mage), you get some regeneration and extra HP - although you do need to watch hunger, getting spellcasting up so your main spells are hungerless is the number one priority.

Re your current character - try going up and back down a different set of stairs - ghosts can't change levels.

[slowcar]

your playstyle sounds quite good, very careful. unless you don't have fun i'd say continue like this.

as far as spells go: high elf has +2 air, -2 earth. i would leave the earth magic alone, especially as most of the spells that are useful for a hybrid are in the air school (swiftness, repel missiles, deflect missiles etc)

summons deplete okawaru-piety, yes.

i'd suggest you use fulsome until you have some potions of one type, and pray the corpses away afterwards. oka piety builds slowly anyhow and is not too important as a hybrid.

[TwilightPhoenix]

You shouldn't need both Mephitic and Evaporate. Evaporate is easier to cast and is much more flexible (some potions, like confusion and paralysis have the same effect as Mephitic) but requires you carrying potions whereas Mephitic is harder to cast but you don't need to keep stuff around.

[Happy Corner]

Neither here nor there, but Evaporate is also a nice way to ID most of the bad potions in the beginning.

[slowcar]

Neither here nor there, but Evaporate is also a nice way to ID most of the bad potions in the beginning.

you mean fulsome destillation. and yes, especially to find the mutation potions without drinking one (or id-ing all).

[Zicher]

Utis, try a Spriggan Venom Mage.

First, you have the speed to outrun nearly everything throughout the whole game. The stealth and EV also help a lot.
Second, you start with Sting and third, you have very early access to Mephitic Cloud.

Play very carefully, and you can get far in the game. "Far" meaning even an all-runer.

[Utis]

Thank you! I've decided to put this character aside for a while, no need to rush things, and, as I wrote, I don't mind for now replaying the early levels over and over again.

I take it that if I want an "arcane archer" or "ranger" character, i. e. an archer with magical battlefield control, the best option is to play as a pure spellcaster up to some point, and then gradually change my strategy.

I'm experimenting with different species/background combinations in the hope to eventually settle for one on which I can concentrate in order to "get it". I've tried a Kobold Necromancer. While I like it tactically, it doesn't appeal to me flavour-wise. I need that little bit of imagination in the background of my mind to fill those Unicode chars with life. Currently I tend towards Kenku and High Elf, with Kenku being on the top of my list. He seems more difficult, but I like him flavour-wise a lot and flying seems at first sight immensely useful for an archer.

As for backgrounds, I still like wizard best. But I'm also considering air elementalist. (Non-kobold necromancer isn't entirely off the plate, but my gut feeling rather goes with the other two. I might add necromancy later when constant exposure to the foulness of the dungeons has tainted the morals of my battle weary veteran ranger and it becomes increasily difficult to tell the difference between him and the evils that he purports to fight. Hehehe.)

Air elementalists have not only lost trizapping, but also Mephitic Cloud!!! But there's still swiftness and swiftness + flight makes my character very quick, doesn't it? Hm... But is that enough to make it worth not having mephitic cloud in the early game?

I'm trying Kenku wizards right now. On what skills should I focus? I've tried to turn everything off but Spellcasting (focus) and Conjuration (normal). But this means that I have mephitic cloud only at "Fair" at a point when I start to really need it. Should I turn everything off but Conjuration and live with the spell hunger?

The key to solving my hunger problem is to preserve permafood by not hesitating to eat contaminated food when hungry and just live with the sickness, isn't it?

[Utis]

Utis, try a Spriggan Venom Mage.

First, you have the speed to outrun nearly everything throughout the whole game. The stealth and EV also help a lot.
Second, you start with Sting and third, you have very early access to Mephitic Cloud.

Play very carefully, and you can get far in the game. "Far" meaning even an all-runer.

Thank, you! In the very beginning I played so many Spriggan Venom Mages that their ghosts are making my life very difficult now. I can see the wisdom in this advice. But I find the combinations I've been exploring recently much more exciting. So far, my wizards and air elementalists have never lured me into a false sense of security. I might go back to Spriggan Venom Mages, if I never get to see the levels after the temple pursing my current paths. But I hope I don't have to.

[Zicher]

You may want to go with Vehumet. The wizardry-like bonus comes as soon as at ** piety, and can very quickly get your Meph to being actually castable.
(Vehumet is also the way if you would ever want to try the Poison Arrow Gatling Gun route ).

If you're a Kenku Conjurer-like build, you're fragile, very fragile. Always keep this in mind and stay away from trouble before they can get you.

Hunger and spell-related problems are mostly notable by early game. Sickness can be waited out pretty quickly. Then, you would wish to raise your Spellcasting and INT to SPC*INT >= 160, which makes Meph hungerless. You already know Meph's power, so utilize it to your best.

Otherwise, I can only advise to take a shot at SpVM. I can provide much more advice at this particular build .

[Utis]

To explain: I realise that I must seem somewhat weird in that I insist on not playing combinations that are recommended for beginners, while I'm at the same time keen on finding the optimal strategy.

I keep coming back to roguelikes, although I never succeeded in anyone. For me, death is inevitable. I expect to die. The question for me is: is my death frustrating me, or is it motivating me?

Frustrating: I'm clearing dungeon after dungeon with relative ease, always basically relying on the same tactics. This is nice, my mind is in a state of serenity. Then I suddenly realize that I have encountered a threat with which I can not cope. I die. I think: "Yeah, yeah, yeah, I should have paid more attention, yadda yadda. But attention to what? Everything was going smoothely. This just sucks." I'm not in the mood to play again.

Exciting: I'm constantly have to be at least somewhat careful, though I can cope with most threats in a logical manner if I am and if I do constantly pay attention. At some point, one of the death threats isn't a threat anymore. I die. I think: "Damn it! I shouldn't have done x! I should have done y! And I should have done z earlier! And I should have built my character differently, in order to be better prepared for this situation." I instantly start again.

[Utis]

Otherwise, I can only advise to take a shot at SpVM. I can provide much more advice at this particular build .

What's your skill strategy with SpVM? On which skills do you focus until, say, the temple?

[Zicher]

To explain: I realise that I must seem somewhat weird in that I insist on not playing combinations that are recommended for beginners, while I'm at the same time keen on finding the optimal strategy.

This beahvoir is perfectly fine - you need to "tune" yourself to a particular roguelike anyway. And SpVM is certainly not an easy combo to start with.

Frustrating: I'm clearing dungeon after dungeon with relative ease, always basically relying on the same tactics. This is nice, my mind is in a state of serenity. Then I suddenly realize that I have encountered a threat with which I can not cope. I die. I think: "Yeah, yeah, yeah, I should have paid more attention, yadda yadda. But attention to what? Everything was going smoothely. This just sucks." I'm not in the mood to play again.

I will not go to other roguelikes, but Crawl is fairly fair in this case - if you died, it was 99% your fault.
Encounter a threat? Flee from it. Don't ask - before you get the answer, you may have already made a bad move.
Never forget that the LearnDB is here for you. If you don't mind getting spoiled, enjoy it's benefits.

Exciting: I'm constantly have to be at least somewhat careful, though I can cope with most threats in a logical manner if I am and if I do constantly pay attention. At some point, one of the death threats isn't a threat anymore. I die. I think: "Damn it! I shouldn't have done x! I should have done y! And I should have done z earlier! And I should have built my character differently, in order to be better prepared for this situation." I instantly start again.

Now you show the spirit - that is the right way!
Sooner or later (and I believe sooner!) you will learn to know when to do x, y or z.
I can only wish you best of luck on this part.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Hello.

I just started playing Crawl after a stupid amount of time spent trying to finish ADOM, and digging it muchly thus far.
Any top tips for surviving with a more finesse-y class than TROLL BARB!!!! would be appreciated over here too.

Cheers

[dolphin]

Cowardice is closely correlated with continued existence in Crawl. Knowing when to run away and actually doing it (even when you want to stay and kill the foo) is the highest virtue within the game.

Try a Spriggan Anything Recommended or a Draconian Air Elementalist. Spriggans are inherently fast in movement, although weak. Draconians have inherent Controlled Flight, so the L2 spell Levitation becomes Flight, which, when combined with Swiftness, makes you as fast as Spriggans are naturally. This speed makes it easy to run away. Abuse it.

With regards to the DrAE, Levitating or Flying halves the self-damage of Static Discharge, and Lightning Bolt and Shock must hit at target twice (by bouncing them off walls) to do max damage.

Shields are highly desirable for wizards, and especially Draconians, since they must abstain from most heavy armors.


sorry for being slightly OT with regards to the OP

[Utis]

Never mind OT. Partly this is about obtaining the right mindset. It means a lot to me to get the feedback that my current mindset in approaching the game is a viable one and that my angle might eventually succeed once I actually learn it by heart.

Also, I already made up my mind that the archer hybrid flavour that I want to play means that I have to get through the early game just as a spellcaster. So, any advice on how to make a suitable spellcaster survive early is also advice for me.

I just learned only now that I get only HALF XP from my allies' kills. Call Imp has become my bread&butter spell in my current run to the temple. So this would explain why I feel underdeveloped in skills, I suppose. Well, I guess it's time to commit suicide and start over. I suppose, it means that I should rely on imps more sparingly and that I should at least try to steal the kill from them. This however also means that a caster absolutely has to develop at least some melee skills in the early game, right?

I try not to think about it as "fleeing", "running away" or "healthy cowardice". I try to think about it as "tactical retreat" and "dynamic defense". Same thing, but different. I know, cowards using "retreat" as an euphemism is an old joke. But for me this means a different mindset, that more or less involves the difference between static warfare and mobile warfare. "Fleeing" and "running away" is something that you do if something goes wrong. "Retreat" on the other hand is just a normal means in the arsenal of mobile warfare. In my very first attempts as a spriggan venom mage I would "run away". Now, I'm trying to prepare my retreat no less than I try to prepare my attacks.

(Well, I mean to. I'm still too often tempted into stupid forward stumbles.)

[slowcar]

tactical retreat is easy if you have swiftness, that's why i like air elementalists. mephitic makes wizards even stronger, but they are missing a strong attack spell (lightning bolt for AE), and you can have a very painful time until you find a book or get enough piety.

i tend to develop melee skills, especially a weapon skill high enough for fast attacks. as you can control your skills manually now you can do whatever is needed while leveling exactly the skills you want.

[speciesxx]

Only drawback as starting as a caster background is that you lack a bow / xbow / sling. But these can be found in the dungeon sooner or later. Guess xbow is hardest to get by. Slings tend to be found here and there, and bows drop from centaurs pretty early on. Xbow is a matter of luck imo.
Not sure if there is a background which gives both a spell book and a ranged weapon. Maybe a lucky rolled wanderer, but that would ask to what they call scum rolling . Edit: and they tend to have lower stats, so imo not worth the time.

Surviving as an early caster is all about flavour i guess. Each of the backgrounds have their advantages and disadvantages, and some are easier than others. Guess the species / race you choose also has impact on the above. A spriggan is less dependent to have swiftness for example, and a Naga is nice to be in front and be able to cast for example sticky flame, or to stand in mephi cloud without being affected.

Wizard is a jack of all trades, but imo really nice to start out. Magic dart does decent damage early on. Summon imp is nice to have, even if it cuts your XP. Just don't overuse it. (it's nice to summon 1 imp and block a coridor, then run ). Blink is also nice to have at the start. And the crowd control comes with mephi cloud.

Fire elementalist. At first i kept dying with these guys, but if you can get a bit used to them, and a bit further, they are nice imo. Flame tongue is ok at the start. 3 MP is not much, so be sure to run if need . I tend to learn throw flame for the range, but only use it to pull a monster when there is a group, then finish it of with flame tongue. Inner flame... can be nice, but be careful. Things can explode in your face :d. But the best spell imo sticky flame. Really nice spell. You need to be up and close though, but it hits hard . And you can cast it on invisible stuff to make it visible again. Really useful vs orc mages, but also later on in the dungeon. After that, you can learn bolt of magma, which is also nice.

[Utis]

Thank you all for the advice. It really helped me to make up my mind. It seems that I'm strongly gravitating towards the wizard. I think I'm going to focus on a Kenku Wizard, which for some reasons seems to appeal to me the most, as I keep coming back to them. I might try other combinations occasionally though, in particular HE as a species, and the Hunter as a background.

Player ghosts are my #1 cause of death currently. There's no escaping them, once they are within the range of Mephitic Cloud. And they are obviously always around the corner. Is playing as a necromancer for a while likely to help me clear them out?

[slowcar]

Is playing as a necromancer for a while likely to help me clear them out?

Ghoul Monk or something like that, undeads leave no ghosts themselves and cannot be affected my mephitic.

[jejorda2]

I just learned only now that I get only HALF XP from my allies' kills. ... I suppose, it means that I should rely on imps more sparingly and that I should at least try to steal the kill from them. This however also means that a caster absolutely has to develop at least some melee skills in the early game, right?

Even if you get the last hit, experience is granted based on how much damage you do vs. how much the ally did. So "kill stealing" doesn't help much and isn't something you need to do. You do need to help fight to get the experience, but don't worry about who gets the last hit. And I think you always get at least half the experience even if the ally does all the damage.

[plantaspoon]

Player ghosts are my #1 cause of death currently. There's no escaping them, once they are within the range of Mephitic Cloud. And they are obviously always around the corner. Is playing as a necromancer for a while likely to help me clear them out?

Ghosts cannot use stairs. You can always skip the floor, even if they are adjacent to you. They may still get a hit in with their free turn while you decend, but they won't follow you. When I'm playing local and I get a bunch of ghosts built up in the lower levels I always just roll a Troll Berzerker. They smash thru the low level caster ghosts pretty quick and their eventual ghost is pretty easy to deal with cause it has no spells.

[Utis]

They smash thru the low level caster ghosts pretty quick and their eventual ghost is pretty easy to deal with cause it has no spells.

Recently, I managed to take out most, if not all, of the early uniques, so my player ghosts are "experienced" casters sometimes as early as D:4. I wouldn't mention it, if the majority of my deaths to them would be because of me being too cocky; but really: as soon as they cast the first mephitic, it's over. I'm not ready yet to play any undead character or any character that is too far away from the build strategy that I want to pursue.

Or is it just bad luck that this seem to happen in a series?

[plantaspoon]

Well, if you want a poison immune caster that isn't undead you should look to Naga. They make good casters, and have high HP, Poison immunity, See Invisibility, and the poison spit will take a serious chunk out of even an ogre. You are slower than even an ooze though, so be careful not to charge into rooms. Let things come to you is good advice in general, but for naga it's imperative.

[smock]

The naga spit-and-run can kill most anything in the first few dungeon levels. Wizards might just want to rain magic darts on foes, but it works nicely for EEs, IEs, etc.

Nagas can also eat poison chunks so it's easier to manage spell and spitting hunger. Hunger can be a bigger issue for newer players and rPois takes care of it well.

A naga necromancer should wipe out all your ghosts, if you can get Dispel Undead going early on. I have no idea if NaNe's play well, though.

[Mackerel]

I try not to think about it as "fleeing", "running away" or "healthy cowardice". I try to think about it as "tactical retreat" and "dynamic defense".

In this game you get to die exactly zero times. So if you routinely fight in situations where you have a 98% chance of winning, after 100 such situations it's 87% likely that you're dead.

The game does not intend to be fair with you: it will routinely toss in extra monsters, out of depth monsters, extra traps and troubles, all sorts of trouble. You must therefore decide not to play fair with the game. Don't engage just because the monster is there. Always stack the odds in your favor: maneuver so that the terrain, the situation, and the time are all in your favor.

[Grimm]

Delete your bones files to prevent player ghosts from generating. It's technically "cheating" but player ghosts are a real pain for a new player.

[slowcar]

Delete your bones files to prevent player ghosts from generating. It's technically "cheating" but player ghosts are a real pain for a new player.

no need for "technically", it is cheating.

[KoboldLord]

Delete your bones files to prevent player ghosts from generating. It's technically "cheating" but player ghosts are a real pain for a new player.

no need for "technically", it is cheating.

It's cheating if and only if you do it selectively, for example deleting player ghosts you think might be hard to deal with and leaving ones that are free xp packets. Wiping everything and starting with a clean install must be acceptable, otherwise it would be impossible to update to new versions when they are released.

[XuaXua]

I don't bring my characters or ghosts over when I upgrade trunk every few days. I do meticulously copy my settings over.

[Utis]

For what it's worth, cheating or not, completely purging and reinstalling crawl is what I eventually did. The problem of player ghosts that shoot mephitic clouds and summon imps like there's no tomorrow was getting out of hand. More importantly, I felt like being punished for getting better at the game and it became increasingly frustrating. And it's not as if I would intent to do it regularly. As a complete rookie, I think that I had some puppy license up until now. In fact, I deleted two promising post-temple characters in the process, so it was not an easy decision.

I'd like to describe, how I'm currently approaching the game. Partly, in the hope of getting some pointers to obvious mistakes, as well as some hints and tips. Partly, because there might be others like me. Reading through the forums and the wiki, it seems that the character build advice given most often to new players is to choose a species/background combination that can cope easily with almost all threats. I'm sure that's good for many people, but it doesn't work for me, since its the "almost" that gets one killed. Starting over with such a build means I have to go through some lengthy easy play until I get killed again. This is frustrating; and it also means that it takes a long time between making mistakes from which I learn. In other words: everybody is different, but for me this is somewhat tedious. The way I approach the game now, I can see the truth in the saying "Dying is fun." The way I approach the game currently, it's interesting and challenging from D:2 on and my deaths are of the "Argh! I should have done x!" sort, not of the "Huh?! Where did that come from? This just sucks!" sort.

I'm alternating now between Kenku Wizard, Kenku Transmuter and Kenku Hunter. I've thrown the hunter in, partly because I had a hunch that the wizard's and the transmuter's means of escape through summons and noxious fumes led me to be somewhat careless. In fact, it might be not entirely unrelated that, discounting screw ups on D:1 and D:2, most of my characters got killed once they could cast Mephitic Cloud/Evaporate with some reliability. Should the problem with player ghosts get out of hand again, I'll throw in necromancers, which also seem to fit my job description. But I want to concentrate.

I'm pretty much settled for the Kenku it seems. I keep trying High Elfs occasionally. On paper, from what I understand, HEs should be far better suited as wizards and hunters. But for reasons unknown to me, my Kenkus seem to fare *far* better. I can only assume that I have an unconscious death wish when I play Yet Another Tolkien Type.

After entering a dungeon (after D:1 that is), I carefully peek into each adjacent room before I progress in one direction. Before I have an idea what's in the adjactent areas, I immediately retreat even if I see only a sleeping push-over. I do the same at every branch/crossways I encounter on my way. Depending on dungeon layout, I more or less explore in a circle around the nearest stairs up. This is in order to minimize the danger of something wandering in behind me. Even a lowly rat, wandering in my rear can kill me when I'm in hot flight from an ogre. Recently I changed the delay for auto-explore in my configuration. It progresses very slowly now, so that I can intervene and correct the directions.

As for food: I don't hesitate to eat contaminated food as soon as I'm at "hungry". I just wait until the sickness is going away, if necessary. If not even contaminated meat is available, I'll let my nutrition level go down as low as "Near starving", except when I'm playing a Kenku wizard, for whom even the escape spells are nutrition expensive. In general I try to refrain from resting, unless my HP is at less than 2/3 or my MP is almost empty. In order to conserve food, I let the healing/resplenishing happen while I'm exploring and I rely on my means to retreat, if necessary. This way, I can save permafood for emergency situations, like when I have to stairdance or when I'm enganged in a lengthy attempt to avoid a particular threat.

Skill progression is the area where I'm still most unsure. Lately, I'm not using 0.9's manual mode anymore. As I understand it, automatic mode asigns its distribution percentages according to how often skills are applied? I used to turn off e.g. dodging and stealth in the very beginning, but as I understand it, this means that they don't get any XP whatsoever anymore and I fear I'd need at least that little bit of either to be able to cope as I progress. So, with a couple of exceptions like Stabbing, I leave most things on, and hope that the automatic system distributes experience in the ratio in which that I need them. I'm rather unsure about throwing, though. I turn it off, but throwing is a nice, resources conserving way to soften easier monsters up, before I engage them in melee. (= they are killed sooner = they do less damage = I need less resting = I preserve food). I'm very unsure about armour ... I leave it on for the hunter, but turn it off for wizard and transmuter. I have no idea there, what I'm doing.

I do use focus, though. As a hunter, I put a focus on stealth. And, since I understand (wrongly?) that stealth is exercised by spending time in the LoS of unaware monster, and thus gets a higher percentage in experience distribution, I also try to "train" it a litte. I do this, because I believe that hunters must be able to choose their own battles. If wizards or transmuters are surprised, they can summon and block the monster's way. If a hunter gets too close to something nasty, it's over.

As a HEWi I put a focus on spell casting and translocation, in order to cast my spells hungerless quickly and in order to get blink reliable. After that I try to get Call Imp, then Mephitic Cloud reliable. As a KeWi it's not so easy. Lately, as a Kenku, I stopped bothering with spellcasting and blink at all. Instead I focussed on summoning immediately. I use summoning mostly to cover my retreats, both as a wizard and as a transmuter, if Mephitic Cloud/Evaporate fail for some reason.

For a disrecommended combination, Kenku transmuter seems to work surprisingly well. I put a focus on transmutation, but only until I get Fulsome Distillation, Evaporate and Sticks to Snakes work with some degree of reliabilty. After that I forget about the other spells and about spell related skills and focus on melee.

This, finally, is the area where I'm most unsure. How soon and to what degree should I develop melee skills? And which ones? For a high elf, I assume, the answer to the last question at least is: short blades. But what about Kenkus? I understand that unarmed combat is one of the better fighting skills and that Kenkus are quite good for it. But I also seem to understand (wrongly?) that unarmed combat (sans buffs like blade hands) gets good only very late in skill development. My builds are not intended as primary melee fighters. Thus, I wonder whether even my Kenku transmuters should rather use a weapon (short blades? maces?) and regard their unarmed attacks as a bonus. I'd very much appreciate enlightenment here.

[TwilightPhoenix]

If you have access to it early, always try to get Mephitic Cloud up and reliable as soon as you can. Mephitic will neutralize threats that Imps and Blinking can't. For example, those might not save you from a pack of Orc Priests or Centaurs in the open with nowhere to hide, but confusing them all will.

I wouldn't worry about Stealth on a hunter. It's handy, but mostly for stabbing and you need to get your combat and other survival skills operating first. If you want it, build it up on the side.

And, if you figure out a set-up that neuters all threats in the game, you've found a balance issue. Most newbie suggestions can handle a lot of early threats, but even those builds have to change-up tactics later on when, for example, Mephitic Cloud no longer reliably shuts everything down.

[Mental Mouse]

The new skill training system of 0.9 is likely to change a lot of the earlier tactics that involved victory dancing and such.

[slowcar]

The new skill training system of 0.9 is likely to change a lot of the earlier tactics that involved victory dancing and such.

you don't have to stand in front of a mushroom whacking away to get fighting, but the general tactics stay the same.

[cerebovssquire]

The new skill training system of 0.9 is likely to change a lot of the earlier tactics that involved victory dancing and such.

you don't have to stand in front of a mushroom whacking away to get fighting, but the general tactics stay the same.

Well, it is easier to train Stealth and Stabbing (which actually needed specific situations to be trained) and Evocations and, with certain gods, Invocations (which required special items/consumables or piety).

[Jk]

I think one part of your mindset that may be worth addressing - and I say this because I have had the same approach almost my whole time playing - is in considering "optimal" strategy before you get into the game. The reason "beginner-friendly builds" are beginner friendly is that they have very clear progressions. First do this, then do that, and if you're careful, you should get to the mid-game.

But the key to many (most?) characters - and certainly the later part of the game - is to take full advantage of what the RNG brings you in the dungeon, and build your character around that. In that sense, leaving possibilities open for your character for awhile becomes an advantage - almost the opposite approach to "optimizing".

This is one of the reasons so many folks are suggesting air elementalists. Their starting book gives you real utility, without necessarily making you commit to anything. I really wanted to make some kind of High Elf swordsman... and after some false starts, finally found the AE to be the best way to get there. I just held off on building melee until much later, and all my investment in air magic goes to being able to cast swiftness, flight, airstrike, repel missiles, etc. You could do the same into ranged, or even melee and ranged.

If you focus your skills, you should be able to get air/charms/bow/swords to around 10 by the mid-game, and defeat enemies through a combination of running away / ranged, then finishing off in melee.