What would be the best place to use Heaven on Earth?


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 276

Joined: Sunday, 6th November 2016, 19:19

Post Tuesday, 21st February 2017, 01:14

What would be the best place to use Heaven on Earth?

I like Ieoh Jian so far, but I have no idea where you would use his active abillities to any great effect. I tried using heaven on earth in the spider ending vault, which I can destroy pretty easily on most characters without tediously luring everything out one by one, but had to tele out as I was taking an assload of damage and things weren't dying fast enough.

Do you use in big,massive branch-end fights or is it like Okawaru's finesse, where it's a buff you use occasionally against a small group of tough foes?
Attachments
DCSS198.png
DCSS198.png (439.54 KiB) Viewed 2340 times
16/26 on the way to GreaterOctopode (Win all backgrounds as an Octopode)

Progress so far : OpFi, OpGl, OpWn, OpAr, OpCK, OpMo, OpBe, OpHu, OpVM, OpAM, OpWr, OpFE, OpEE, OpNe, OpTm, OpSk

Slime Squisher

Posts: 352

Joined: Monday, 14th December 2015, 00:43

Post Tuesday, 21st February 2017, 19:50

Re: What would be the best place to use Heaven on Earth?

Heaven on Earth costs a fuckton of piety, 21-31 to be exact. Only Lugonu's abyss entering costs more, I think, even stuff like Zin's Sanctuary is cheaper. In comparison, Okawaru's Finesse is 4-6.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 236

Joined: Saturday, 2nd July 2016, 13:16

Post Wednesday, 22nd February 2017, 18:40

Re: What would be the best place to use Heaven on Earth?

Yeah, I'm confused about this too.

From a design perspective, I think the problem is that Heaven on Earth is both (a) super expensive, yet (b) tactically complex.* Either is fine on its own. However, using a tactically complex ability efficiently takes practice: you need to get a feel for how it works, what to expect, what risks the tactics it encourages exposes you to, etc. Yet because it's so expensive, you only use it a few times per game--even fewer than necessary, probably, since its cost encourages you to be so conservative--which makes it very hard to get the practice you need.

So I suggest making it either simpler, or cheaper and weaker. I don't know what the latter would mean. However, the former would probably mean doubling down on one of its two functions: either massively increasing your offense, or shutting down enemy ranged attacks/LoS. OR--and frankly this is my preferred solution--just going back to the divine weapons. Those things were awesome.

[*] Here the contrast to Sanctuary and abyss entering is instructive. In both cases it is super clear what they do: they reset combat. They both impose special considerations that differ from other ways of resetting combat: you need a plan for when Sanctuary expires, and you need to be ready for whatever you meet in the abyss. But both kinds of consideration are things the player has a good basis for thinking through already.

For this message the author luckless has received thanks: 3
duvessa, nago, pratamawirya

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 36

Joined: Thursday, 6th October 2016, 15:14

Post Tuesday, 28th February 2017, 17:20

Re: What would be the best place to use Heaven on Earth?

If your character isn't resilient enough to hang in there, it can be really disappointing. Paired with vamp, Spiny, or possibly the best synergy in Powered by Death, it makes your character basically a melee god incarnate for as long as there are enemies to fight. You can tear through places like Orc:2, Elf:3, V:5. Ranged threats, summoners, smiters, all of the usual killers are completely countered by this ability. It even makes protection brand not terrible, because the ludicrous slaying bonus means you only need survivability. Shredding through one of those end floors gives you much of your piety back (esp. with amulet of faith), and if at some point you need to abort, well it was at the very least a scroll of fog. Let's not forget the insane wall-jump mechanic that makes running away so easy.

Flavor and gameplay wise, this ability is goddamned amazing. The roiling clouds of heavenly thunder as the backdrop to you tearing through packs of the most dangerous enemies in the game is just immensely satisfying. The martial attacks are engaging, and I'm only worried that a few interactions make it clearly OP.

edit: I guess to respond to luckless, I would dispute that it's all that tactically complex. All of the tactical intricacy of moving and attacking is learned piety-free during your regular martial attack usage throughout the game. Heaven on Earth is very clearly an oh-shit button that gives you a huge steroid, persistent cover, and says "keep it going till you've killed em all." The clouds hugely cut down on immediate danger, so you can choose to fight it out or run away.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 167

Joined: Friday, 23rd October 2015, 03:12

Post Tuesday, 28th February 2017, 21:20

Re: What would be the best place to use Heaven on Earth?

HoE can help you escape through a crowd of enemies as well as fight (since it both decreases LOS and encourages you to run around monsters.) The big danger is that you can't see what you running into.

Seconding sooheon that it's not that complicated. Think of it as "scroll of fog + song of slaying that you can only maintain in relatively open areas." I used it a bunch on a Troll. That was really great since you could pole-vault directly into a crowd of enemies without worrying about dying the next turn, which added about 4 slaying in a single move. Then I would run out of the crowd of enemies (doing lots of damage at +14 slaying as I did so, and maintaining or increasing the slaying bonus) to get back to a wall, and repeat.
User avatar

Zot Zealot

Posts: 982

Joined: Monday, 29th September 2014, 09:04

Post Tuesday, 28th February 2017, 21:48

Re: What would be the best place to use Heaven on Earth?

The best places are: tomb:3 (if retirement), vaults:5, elf:3, zot:5. Remember to zap a lightning rod first to attract as much as possible.

I don't think the ability is too complex, but it would probably still be great without any bonus slaying.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 242

Joined: Friday, 17th April 2015, 16:22

Post Thursday, 2nd March 2017, 04:41

Re: What would be the best place to use Heaven on Earth?

Does it do anything besides the bonus slaying, harmless fog clouds, and noise?
User avatar

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 838

Joined: Friday, 2nd October 2015, 04:47

Post Thursday, 2nd March 2017, 16:26

Re: What would be the best place to use Heaven on Earth?

Heaven can push through small/medium groups of toughies in deep Lair, too. Big herds of yaks/toss in a couple death yaks, or Harold with big animal friends in attendance. Stuff that would usually make me want to pause and split up the pack more, for lack of a super weapon/very strong aoe& bolt spells.

Although I am on an Imp in Yiuf fork with a quick blade. It might not be so safe for some other builds, I dunno.
Online game stats & morgues
More runes! GnWn (11, 0.21), GhMo^Makh (15, 0.17)
And a Yiuf: (1.4.6, 0.20): ImpGl^Oka (3)

Spider Stomper

Posts: 216

Joined: Saturday, 25th March 2017, 16:51

Post Thursday, 30th March 2017, 08:23

Re: What would be the best place to use Heaven on Earth?

Which builds would better suit a Wu Jian follower? A heavy melee intensive char wielding a 2 handed sword?

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8782

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Thursday, 30th March 2017, 08:29

Re: What would be the best place to use Heaven on Earth?

HoE makes fog clouds that follow you for a long time. Because of that, I think any use of it to kill things is overshadowed by the ability to use it to cross a level practically untouched. It's a ridiculously easy way to ninja runes and the Orb, or just mostly avoid damage for a long time.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 405

Joined: Thursday, 16th June 2011, 18:36

Post Thursday, 30th March 2017, 14:09

Re: What would be the best place to use Heaven on Earth?

duvessa wrote:HoE makes fog clouds that follow you for a long time. Because of that, I think any use of it to kill things is overshadowed by the ability to use it to cross a level practically untouched. It's a ridiculously easy way to ninja runes and the Orb, or just mostly avoid damage for a long time.


Don't they expire quickly if you're not doing martial attacks? (And thus making noise / exposing yourself to melee attacks.)
Won with: KeAE^Sif, NaWz^Sif, NaTm^Chei, SpEn^Nmlx, GrEE^Qaz, HOFE^Veh, MiBe^Trog, DrFE^Hep, FoFi^Zin, CeHu^Oka.
In Progress: DrCj
Long-term goal: complete the pantheon.

Return to Dungeon Crawling Advice

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.