What TeAE taught me about walking away


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Tartarus Sorceror

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Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Wednesday, 22nd February 2017, 15:49

What TeAE taught me about walking away

I had some time to kill yesterday afternoon and didn't have a character in progress, so I rolled a TeAE. Now I had heard that walking away is a powerful defense, but I hadn't really processed it. But as I tried to set up bizaps, I found I could walk a long way and rarely get hit. That particular game was a lark and I used it more to practice bizaps than to try to win, but what I learned about walking away from enemies will help me in all my games. It works, and I should have listened, but I had to have another reason to try it to actually believe it.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 22nd February 2017, 15:51

Re: What TeAE taught me about walking away

Well, try to evoke temporary flight before Tengu gets permanent flight and you will see why kiting/luring is broken and should not be used.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 22nd February 2017, 16:21

Re: What TeAE taught me about walking away

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Well, try to evoke temporary flight before Tengu gets permanent flight and you will see why kiting/luring is broken and should not be used.

Or, for simpler and more direct experience with kiting/luring, play a centaur with a polearm
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Wednesday, 22nd February 2017, 16:26

Re: What TeAE taught me about walking away

I appreciate the sentiment, guys. I'm still at the point though where instead of "broken" I'm seeing this as a measurable way to improve my chance to win, instead of boringly guaranteeing it.
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

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Halls Hopper

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Post Wednesday, 22nd February 2017, 18:44

Re: What TeAE taught me about walking away

MainiacJoe wrote:I appreciate the sentiment, guys. I'm still at the point though where instead of "broken" I'm seeing this as a measurable way to improve my chance to win, instead of boringly guaranteeing it.

Don't you understand that tavern posts are more about looking for opportunities to grind one's axe than about interacting with the other people!
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Thursday, 23rd February 2017, 18:54

Re: What TeAE taught me about walking away

shping wrote:
MainiacJoe wrote:I appreciate the sentiment, guys. I'm still at the point though where instead of "broken" I'm seeing this as a measurable way to improve my chance to win, instead of boringly guaranteeing it.

Don't you understand that tavern posts are more about looking for opportunities to grind one's axe than about interacting with the other people!


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Swamp Slogger

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Post Friday, 24th February 2017, 12:55

Re: What TeAE taught me about walking away

MainiacJoe wrote:instead of "broken" I'm seeing this as a measurable way to improve my chance to win

That is exactly why people consider it broken:
Walking through half an empty level with some monster trailing you is hardly fun, but you do it anyway because it drastically improves your win chance.

The decision process whenever there are enemies in view pretty much boils down to
Can i walk away?
a) Yes -> walk away
b) No -> consider other options

which isn't very interesting.

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VeryAngryFelid

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Friday, 24th February 2017, 16:43

Re: What TeAE taught me about walking away

Luring is of course a thing, but from what I've seen a lot of the 'younger generation' takes that stuff way too far. I see player X dragging every single monster almost literally across half a level just to one shot it - most of the time backing up one or two tiles is perfectly fine.
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Saturday, 25th February 2017, 19:34

Re: What TeAE taught me about walking away

Conjure Flame + Polearm
Or
Conjure Flame, walk away, Conjure Flame, walk away, Etc..
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Saturday, 4th March 2017, 00:57

Re: What TeAE taught me about walking away

Navel gazing moment:

I am usually quite happy to back stuff 5 or 10 paces into corridors. Corridors are safe, corridors are obvious traps for many mobs. And very obvious protection for you until you get uber. (Or at least until damn I want that shiny over there by the oklob plant in the open, ahem.)

I am happy to use Conjure Flame and refresh it, multi key strokes for spells like Freeze on up to Firestorm, Mephitic Cloud repeatedly to cover more approaches, Inner Flame or Enslavement when I have em, and dance all over the place "while attacking" to choose targets or stab things in a better order with at least somewhat less risk.

I'm fine with running back a few paces with a centaur, shooting for a few turns and do it again.

I'm even pretty content to reach into inventory and change/add stuff terribly often (let's start with a couple crossbow bolts or sling for fun, toss on a little draining or poison with this odd weapon, okay serious damage melee now, oh wait I want another potion too)...

So why oh why do I get bored with pole arm kiting? And why do I keep forgetting to step back and draw the edge of a crowd a bit in more open situations where I don't have a weapon/spell mechanic demanding I do so? I think it's something about the sheer frequency and repetitiveness of it, if you're really being consistent. I know I should, but I generally find it more fun to take on packs and see how far my stuff goes and how many gratifying kills can happen while managing a somewhat sane disengagement. This does not always end well. But I suspect it's a very common impulse. And maybe one the game preys on despite many of us knowing more or less better.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Saturday, 11th March 2017, 02:44

Re: What TeAE taught me about walking away

@stoneychips: I think it's because kiting with a polearm requires that you specifically keep the monster at range 2, and the number of steps you take backwards before getting your next free attack changes, based on energy randomization. And since you're speed 7 vs a speed 10 monster means after 4 turns you've gained 1.2 tiles, so the .2 tile remainder messes up establishing a smooth "3 steps then hit, and repeat" process. It's pretty easy to just spam "run 7 steps back then fire fire fire fire" when you're doing it with a bow. Polearms require a much more precise range. You have to check your distance after each action, and then correct it when something goes wrong.

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