Okawaru's armour gifts

[mattlistener]

I started wondering what was going on with Okawaru this game after five or six straight weapon gifts without receiving any armour. I hadn't been planning on Okawaru this time but all my armour slots but body were still empty by the time I got to Temple so I decided Oka would give me the most benefit (of the gods I haven't won with yet).

Now I'm up to 13 total gifts received, none of them armour. Image attached is the results of searching for "gift". (I haven't dropped anything in lava, I promise.)

https://crawl.jorgrun.rocks/morgue/Shar ... hargos.txt

[mattlistener]

Streak broke right after posting this, with a +1 Robe +rPois +rElec +rN. All much needed resistances right now.

[neverEnough]

Oka listens to devote worshippers even more in the forum!!

[duvessa]

Okawaru weapon/armour gifts are a straight 50%/50% split. On average, you'll get the same number of armour gifts as you do weapon gifts.

(What percentage of your gifts will be ammunition, and how many weapon/armour gifts that ammunition gifts "steal" from you, is a lot more complicated, depending on your piety level etc., but you always have the same chance for an armour gift that you do for a weapon gift.)

p.s. if any of those resistances are "much needed" then something is wrong

[mattlistener]

Okawaru weapon/armour gifts are a straight 50%/50% split.

Thanks for that info. So, one chance in 1024 to get ten weapon gifts in a row with no armour.

And yes, the "something wrong" was that I had no egos on any armour slots other than body at that point, and so needed to wear rings with performance stats to stay on top of fights. The game has also been book-poor. Still alive though!


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[Psieye]

duvessa's point was: "if you ever need rPois, rElec or rN from any equipment at all, your tactics and/or your character building are sub-optimal". I suppose there's also "or you never found a potion of resistance for the few times when rElec is actually necessary".

[duvessa]

It's not really even that. Even if you have an awful character, rPois, rElec, and rN are not very useful at all. rPois is really only good in early dungeon when adder/blowgun poison is a threat.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Conversely, something is wrong when you can kill 90% monsters via tabbing with closed eyes and the rest 10% via retreating upstairs to heal and try again. Maybe play weaker characters then?
For example, I believe most Formicids will have very serious problem vs Nikola if potion of resistance is missing and I am not sure what player can do about it except probably read spoilers and avoid levels where he can spawn.

[CanOfWorms]

you could read a scroll of silence and/or fog, summon allies, use your god powers, shaft yourself...

[VeryAngryFelid]

Do you mean it is not a guaranteed death? Yes, I agree, I wrote "very serious problem".
I hope it does not happen on Snake 4 with all those fast snakes and shock serpents...

[CanOfWorms]

you wrote you are "not sure what a player can do about it"

i listed a number of things a player can do in that situation

[VeryAngryFelid]

Oh, my bad, I wasn't asking for advice though.

[sanka]

Conversely, something is wrong when you can kill 90% monsters via tabbing with closed eyes and the rest 10% via retreating upstairs to heal and try again. Maybe play weaker characters then?
For example, I believe most Formicids will have very serious problem vs Nikola if potion of resistance is missing and I am not sure what player can do about it except probably read spoilers and avoid levels where he can spawn.

So resist elec is very useful if
1. You are a formicid
2. who did not have a potion of resistance
3. and have no access to strong summons
4. or some god abilities that can solve the situation
5. and meet Nikola in a branch end, not close to the stairs and he notices you?

I am not convinced because if I want to win a formicid I would always choose a god so that point 4 is false.

Of course resist elec could be made somewhat useful if you add artificial restrictions/rules because you find crawl boring, but I do not think duvessa referred to these games.

[mattlistener]

I don't get it. Winrate of crawl for most players (including me) is zero to very low. A missing resistance can make the difference between a situation that was tense but handleable and a situation that forced you to teleport, which can always drop you into a pack of killyous. Relief at finding a usable piece of gear that fills in three of these is reasonable.


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[Siegurt]

I don't get it. Winrate of crawl for most players (including me) is zero to very low. A missing resistance can make the difference between a situation that was tense but handleable and a situation that forced you to teleport, which can always drop you into a pack of killyous. Relief at finding a usable piece of gear that fills in three of these is reasonable.


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Well, the point here is that those resists are on a +1 robe, if you are comparing that to say, fully enchanted vanilla ring mail, for example, the number of times those resists will prevent more damage than the additional ac are small, and the number of times that the ac will help, when a resist is inapplicable is very very large. Particularly for those resistances which don't show up a lot. Since it is impactical to switch body armour in preperation for the very limited number of combats where the resist would be better, it is optimal to wear the ring mail all the time, and if you really really have a situation that you need that resist for, and can't avoid (hint this should happen only slightly more than 0% of the time) then you should probably just go back for the item, use it for that one encounter, then drop it again.

If those same resists were on a +12 plate mail, then wear the heck out of it, having the resist on top is just gravy, and saves you the effort it takes to switch in resistances (and thereby makes a small number of fights way easier)

Resists aren't *bad* generally but sacrificing good body armour for them is rarely optimal, as good body armour is applicable to nearly every fight. If you are playing well, you are controlling which fights you engage in, so you don't need to fight the very small minority of combats that would benefit from those specific resistances.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Well, the point here is that those resists are on a +1 robe, if you are comparing that to say, fully enchanted vanilla ring mail, for example, the number of times those resists will prevent more damage than the additional ac are small, and the number of times that the ac will help, when a resist is inapplicable is very very large. Particularly for those resistances which don't show up a lot. Since it is impactical to switch body armour in preperation for the very limited number of combats where the resist would be better, it is optimal to wear the ring mail all the time, and if you really really have a situation that you need that resist for, and can't avoid (hint this should happen only slightly more than 0% of the time) then you should probably just go back for the item, use it for that one encounter, then drop it again.

If those same resists were on a +12 plate mail, then wear the heck out of it, having the resist on top is just gravy, and saves you the effort it takes to switch in resistances (and thereby makes a small number of fights way easier)

Resists aren't *bad* generally but sacrificing good body armour for them is rarely optimal, as good body armour is applicable to nearly every fight. If you are playing well, you are controlling which fights you engage in, so you don't need to fight the very small minority of combats that would benefit from those specific resistances.

Probably you overestimate AC. I usually don't care about AC difference between plain ring mail and resistant robe after I reach Lair, especially because it is somewhat compensated by extra EV from robe, I switch only if the ring mail does not stop my spells and has nice enchantment. I am not killed by many small attacks, I am killed by a huge damage spike, be it Black Mamba, Fire Crab or Rime Drake. Rime Drake deals 3d13 (cold), quite deadly without rC+ no matter in ring mail or not.

[mattlistener]

Ah. Well, for context then, I was replacing a +0 Leather Armour of Fire Resistance (and had other sources of rF available). Like I said, it had been a very poor loot game at that point. And me a spellcasting IE stabber trying to flesh out the hexes kit so adding armour encumberance wasn't the direction I was going.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Funnily you are using robe of the night in the latest dump. AC 25/EV 25 is quite respectable.
I don't mind leather armour, for some characters it is great even without ozo armour.
For example, http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 042234.txt
See my signature, EV is not that different from AC.

[mattlistener]

Funnily you are using robe of the night in the latest dump. AC 25/EV 25 is quite respectable.
I don't mind leather armour, for some characters it is great even without ozo armour.
For example, http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 042234.txt
See my signature, EV is not that different from AC.

Yes Robe of Night was a great shop find. I'd never even played with Darkness before so this is a very different game right now.

Note: 10 of the AC is my Icemail Demonspawn mutation.

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[mattlistener]

Duplicate removed.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Note: 10 of the AC is my Icemail Demonspawn mutation.

Oops, my bad.