Tartarus Sorceror
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Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Slime Squisher
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Spider Stomper
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Location: Germany
Shoals Surfer
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Barkeep
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Ziggurat Zagger
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njvack wrote:There's also "don't stress too much about mutations, drink cmut when you get bad ones" which is pretty viable for most games nowadays.
Barkeep
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Crypt Cleanser
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Spider Stomper
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Shoals Surfer
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Joined: Monday, 20th June 2016, 15:27
njvack wrote:But yeah, right now cMut (and rMut before it) is mostly kind of a license to be tactically lazy around malmutators, which is not particularly compelling. I don't think that "rMut was very good; it's not like most amulets were tactically awesome. For me, the most interesting question would generally boil down to "am I annoyed enough avoiding LOS with mutators for me to throw away Faith?" I guess maybe I'd swap rMut and rCorr in Slime, or very rarely Spirit or something.
Abyss Ambulator
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Ziggurat Zagger
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removeelyvilon wrote:In other words, the current malmutation system is terrible.
Spider Stomper
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Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41
VeryAngryFelid wrote:removeelyvilon wrote:In other words, the current malmutation system is terrible.
I have impression it is up to design philosophy. Do you remember Traps&Doors skill? It used to give player an option to make a decision about their willingness to get random deaths events via traps. But traps are considered "fun" and thus player should not have control over them. Then the same happened to rMut, bad mutations are "fun" and players should not have control over them. I wonder what will be next.
Barkeep
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Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28
removeelyvilon wrote:And the other problem is that NONE of the described "tactics" (I despise that empty word shell. Ever noticed that nobody ever explains what they mean by this?)
Halls Hopper
Posts: 65
Joined: Tuesday, 1st November 2011, 20:16
njvack wrote:I kind of think of it as "tactics are the actions I take 1–50 turns from now, strategy is what I'm working towards in the long term to make my tactics work better."
...I stopped trying to block with summons and be tactical the most reliable way to get mutated the least was to transference the eye directly to me and kill it as fast as possible. Trying the blocking stragetgy with my buddy + summon butterflies in an open level while better than nothing was not working great even though a battlemage can kill a shining eye quite fast. It was better to simply play roulette and minimize the turns it existed than try to be tactical.
Barkeep
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Spider Stomper
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JFunk wrote:njvack wrote:I kind of think of it as "tactics are the actions I take 1–50 turns from now, strategy is what I'm working towards in the long term to make my tactics work better."
That's right, but the term is misunderstood and misused constantly, to mean something completely different like "positioning-based tactics only". Just look up-thread:...I stopped trying to block with summons and be tactical the most reliable way to get mutated the least was to transference the eye directly to me and kill it as fast as possible. Trying the blocking stragetgy with my buddy + summon butterflies in an open level while better than nothing was not working great even though a battlemage can kill a shining eye quite fast. It was better to simply play roulette and minimize the turns it existed than try to be tactical.
This player is describing the tactic that worked as "not tactical" and the tactics that failed as "tactical." This is not an uncommon confusion on Tavern, and it's a clue that many players are understanding "tactics" and "tactical" VERY differently from their dictionary definition.
Tomb Titivator
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Dungeon Master
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Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52
tabstorm wrote:I wish the damn rMut amulet would just be brought back, maybe as (rMut *Contam) so that muh switching is not an issue. I am seriously too lazy to play around neqos/shining eyes, monsters that basically cannot harm you except through mutation, to the extent that I'll sacrifice a better amulet just to be lazy. Especially since even if you use LoS-blocking, when you get into melee range, you can just miss 5 times because of Crawl Accuracy and pick up mutations anyway, or your butterflies cannot spawn in the right place, or whatever. It's kind of an indictment of extended that people can and will sacrifice better gear for the privilege of laziness.
Barkeep
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Ziggurat Zagger
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njvack wrote:This gets into GDD, but I think temporary mutations work well; removing !cmut and making malmutate grant temporary mutations (maybe requiring more XP to clear than corrupting pulse, or more of them, or something) would make dealing with eyes and neqs a lot less annoying. If you get mutated by contamination or chunks of something, adapt or find a god to help with it.
But I really do kind of feel like the mutation system is being asked to do a whole lot of things, probably more than it can comfortably handle.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Slime Squisher
Posts: 419
Joined: Wednesday, 21st September 2011, 09:45
Spider Stomper
Posts: 241
Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41
Sphara wrote:I have never commented about the mutation removal but maybe I go now.
Been playing since 2012 and mutations have ruined my game just once. Stepped on a Zot trap on the last level of the Swamp and got red Glow (for those who weren't around back then, Glow was equal to Contam). Resulted in something like 12-14 bad mutations.
When rMut amulet was removed, I had my doubts but afterwards I noticed I barely wore the damn thing. I don't miss it.
About OP:s question: Stealth is usually my way to avoid them. Summons are another. Special cases are already mentioned above. I could argue with people who say that those things can be one-shot anyway. They have reasonably high HP to withstand a turn against most 3-rune ranged attacks, so you can be left vulnerable for a turn or two. That's usually enough for them to snipe some muts at you. If you cannot take a mut or two, better postpone the Slime Pit then.
Slime Squisher
Posts: 419
Joined: Wednesday, 21st September 2011, 09:45
I just want to be able to play in a way where I feel like if I make the right decisions I can reliably avoid mutations. That when I do get mutated I say "Yep that was a mistake I made" or "Well that was fair I got mutated but I really wanted to kill that other fucker".
Slime Squisher
Posts: 368
Joined: Thursday, 11th April 2013, 21:07
Sphara wrote:All in all, if I have to hate one mutating monster in the game, that would be a Wretched Star. It can provide endless examples, how to fuck up your game. It really make your guts turn when you suddenly get that "easier to cast but weaker spells" thing. Nothing like wandering in the Abyss:5 with a Regeneration spell that lasts just few turns and 1% Fire Storm that has only few power bars costing 9 MP and does less damage than well-powered Fireball.
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