DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport


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Tomb Titivator

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Post Saturday, 1st October 2016, 23:10

DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

I can imagine a few different tactical uses for this. Sounds like another good-on-all-characters utility spell, especially against malmutators. Does being moved wake/alert monsters, I hope? Otherwise this would be super abusable on stabbers (and might still be abusable with e.g. invis, or as a way to ensure a stab before an enemy wakes up from EH/paralyze/etc.).

  Code:
New spell: Lesser Beckoning (L3 Tloc)
Beam-targeted spell that moves the target adjacent to the caster.
Won't move victims into instakill terrain (lava etc), but will
move them over such terrain. Can move monsters into traps. Range
starts at 2, and caps at 7 (LOS_RADIUS) at 50 power; if the effect
is too powerful, doubling the power cap to 100 might be one way to
adjust it. (Alternately, it could gain a second school;
tloc/earth?)

Intended to be a fun utility effect. It's currently in Party Tricks
and in Spatial Translocations, replacing Apportation in the latter;
that means that Warper no longer starts with a spell, but that's
probably OK.


(Commit link: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f ... 97dd8acb46)
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Snake Sneak

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Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 11:35

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

tedric wrote:replacing Apportation in the latter


:o

If it was too powerful put limitations (unapportable runes), but don't remove :?

Tomb Titivator

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Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 14:21

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

apportation isn't removed from the game, just from the Wr starting book (in the commit details you can see it's still in Book of Party Tricks, for example)
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neverEnough

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 15:45

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

2 cents:
I don't like this spells. It gives too much control on enemies.
I hope it is changed from irresistible because right now it seems too much exploitable to me.
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 15:57

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

Well, starting with an OP version helps encourage people to try it out. The nerfs ought to follow though, Fedhas shrooms will have a field day.

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nago

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 3rd October 2016, 08:10

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

I don't believe that this spell is overpowered. Every character gets a much better version of the same effect just by having decent terrain around (the spell gives the monster a free hit, letting the monster move next to you does not), and the effect is only useful if you intend to kill the monster in melee since monsters are almost always more dangerous the closer they are.
It is notably strong for meleeing and slowing things with Chei, but I doubt it makes melee as good as missiles or summons with Chei, and also it's still Chei, so I doubt any balance issues are going to come from that.

Anyway I think this spell is great gameplay as a player spell, but terrible gameplay as a monster spell.remove ghosts

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Tomb Titivator

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Post Monday, 3rd October 2016, 18:27

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

Agree with duvessa, the spell doesn't really feel overpowered. It's main niche probably is against targets with scary ranged but relatively weak melee (like orc priests and centaurs) but you could already handle those with luring, so this spell just makes it more convenient. Also the spell is pretty weak at low power (like a range of 3 only) so if anything I think it could use some buffing wrt range. Like with all non full ranged spells, repeatedly trying to figure out whether a target is within range or not is not ideal.

While the spell isn't that strong, you can do some fun things with it. Like grabbing a goblin to blockade a corridor while you portal projectile the ogre behind him with poison needles...

There are some (possibly) broken interactions though. For example, you can grab an enemy and pull it into a flame cloud (via Conjure Flame) in front of you. Once in the cloud, it doesn't try to leave. Presumably this works for Corpse Rot as well. Not sure how much of a problem this is, since there are already several ways to convince enemies to walk into your clouds, but using Beckoning is certainly the most straightforward and least tedious way, outside of enemies who are strong enough that they'd enter on their own volition.

EDIT: btw it seems to wake sleeping monsters (counts as an attack?) so no, not much stab abuse there. It wakes EH targets but not paralysed ones.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Monday, 3rd October 2016, 20:20

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

Combine this spell with portal projectile to keep a weak monster in front of you while you kill the scary ones.

That might not work if the strong ones just push their way back to the front though.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 3rd October 2016, 20:23

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

FR: It should be supported by Portal Projectile so you can bring in melee range that summoner who is hiding behind its summons
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 3rd October 2016, 23:45

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

The thing with pointing out flame clouds and rat-blocking as problems with this spell is that they work just as well without using this spell, too.

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Arrhythmia

Slime Squisher

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Post Tuesday, 4th October 2016, 01:01

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

Look, powerful enemies can use this spell when you try to escape from them!

Please add this spell to vault wardens, guardian serpents, ironbrand convokers or Desolation mobs for more fun.. HAHAHAAAHAHAA
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/papilio.html

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Barkeep

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Post Tuesday, 4th October 2016, 04:15

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

Just you wait for Greater Beckoning
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

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Sar

Spider Stomper

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Post Wednesday, 5th October 2016, 03:09

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

Warper always felt like the "starts with apport" class to me. RIP already dead warper.
I'm with tasonir on this one.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 6th October 2016, 22:53

Re: DCSS TrunkWatch™: New L3 Tloc spell, Wr loses apport

Oh dear god I've been waiting for this spell for years and I've posted requests for it at least twice, if not 10 times. I'm going to have to fire up a Chei warper now and dance on the grave of the haste spell as well.

Feel free to raise the power cap on this to 100 if you like but please keep that sweet, sweet full LOS range.

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