Sif Muna Piety?


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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 02:09

Sif Muna Piety?

I am having difficulty maintaining sif muna piety in trunk. Although I have not yet used one piety costing ability, I am unable to reach 6 stars of piety. In fact, when I train a skill besides a magic skill, my piety sometimes drops from 5 to 4 stars. What should I do?

Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 04:16

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

Getting 6* of piety doesn't matter with sif anymore as she gifts books at 5* now, and she has a standardized piety decay like other gods so getting to 6* requires focusing on the piety gain (but there's no benefit to doing so). the most important threshold to maintain is 3* since that gives you channeling, if you need her gifts just train a magic school until you're back at 5*???

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 09:04

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

Kill piety gain is so low it can only sustain your current piety from some point on. To go forward you have to train a lot magic skills, like before (except decay is much faster, but that should be offset by the kills).

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 09:19

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

Yup, from my very limited experience with new Sif Muna, is still virtually impossible to raise piety without raising magical skills and perhaps even very difficult to just sustain it if you use a lot of channeling (which you should anyway because it is the really good part about Sif) and fully autoexplore every level. As said before, the breaking point of book gifting is around 5* so I think you shouldn't worry to lose the last * - at least, not worry so much to not use channeling or to train some magical skills just for the sake of it and not because you actually need to raise them.

Btw, I can't check now but probably I've just played games with new Sif but before the commit which uniformed the piety decay system into 4 bands and I don't know if that means Sif's piety decays is the same|faster|slower than before.
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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 12:07

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

But I need to maintain 5 stars of piety, as I need to get books. However, I also need more dodging, fighting, and weapon skill. What should I do? I have only 18 eve after finishing all of lair and d to 14. (Orc warlord at Orc).
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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 12:13

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

What happens if you keep 50% of training for magic skills and the rest for some other skill? I haven't played new Sif so I'd like to know (with old Sif this used to be enough).
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 12:37

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

The experience of only 1 mid\late game with new Sif (but no idea if with old piety decay) told me that 33 % magic / 66% psychical skills were enough to keep getting book gift with a good pace, provided I hadn't already sinked the piety abusing channeling.
50% / 50% probably is going to net you more piety than is actually necessary.
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Barkeep

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 14:51

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

I'd say book gifts are probably the least useful bit about Sif anyhow; she's not very reliable about giving you something you can use when you want it.
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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 16:59

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

Sif Muna book gifts come late and are only vaguely related to skilling, but are still very useful over a full game (i guess a bit like okawaru gifts)!

Also piety loss sucks really hard with sif muna now for some combination of using autoexplore / killing enemies with mana / using channel / training 50% or less in magic skills. I've played many games with new sif muna since it's the only way to experiment with all the spells and can say my strong characters got tons of books but my weak ones that had to rest a lot only got a handful. It feels like sif muna is a make a strong character stronger god now, not a turn any character into a strong character god.

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 20:40

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

Sprucery wrote:What happens if you keep 50% of training for magic skills and the rest for some other skill? I haven't played new Sif so I'd like to know (with old Sif this used to be enough).

I was training magic at 50%, but piety still went down. Seems like veh is better than sif now.I already won a game with veh, so I decided to go sif Muna. How should I kill enemies? Battlesphere and Magic dart is falling off against armoured opponents. I have parrot at 10% fail, but I can't really train much poison magic, as that is a dead end school. As a ice draconian, I was hoping for bolt of cold. Should I go for iron shot instead?

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 20:48

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

Post a dump for specific advice, I'd say.

If you already have p. arrow memorized, then training some poison magic so you can actually cast it with good spell power is probably not a "waste."

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 21:20

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

  Code:
arandomperson12 the Devastator (DrCj)              Turns: 59355, Time: 03:37:08

Health: 143/143    AC: 15    Str: 15    XL:     16   Next: 19%
Magic:  29/30      EV: 18    Int: 22    God:    Sif Muna [*****.]
Gold:   1487       SH:  0    Dex: 11    Spells: 6 memorised, 17 levels left

rFire  . . .      SeeInvis .    i - staff of energy
rCold  + . .      Gourm    +    (armour unavailable)
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (no shield)
rPois  .          Spirit   .    f - +2 hat {MR+}
rElec  .          Dismiss  .    F - +0 cloak
rCorr  .          Reflect  .    A - +0 pair of gloves
MR     ++...      Harm     .    p - +1 pair of boots
Stlth  +++.......               s - amulet of the gourmand
                                B - +3 ring of strength
                                d - ring of stealth

@: no status effects
A: breathe frost, unfitting armour, cold resistance 1, cold-blooded, AC +9
a: Breathe Frost, Divine Energy, Channel Magic, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion


You are on level 14 of the Dungeon.
You worship Sif Muna.
Sif Muna is extremely pleased with you.
You are completely stuffed.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 22 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ice Cave.

You have collected 1747 gold pieces.
You have spent 260 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 q - a +0 blowgun
 L - a +0 quarterstaff
Missiles
 w - 49 poisoned needles
 x - 5 needles of sleeping
 G - 28 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 f - a +2 hat of magic resistance (worn)
 p - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
 A - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 F - a +0 cloak (worn)
Magical Staves
 i - an uncursed staff of energy (weapon)
Jewellery
 d - a ring of stealth (left hand)
 s - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 B - a +3 ring of strength (right hand)
 U - a warped bone ring
Wands
 a - a wand of teleportation (3/9)
 l - a wand of disintegration (9/24)
 n - a wand of hasting
 E - a wand of acid
 H - a wand of paralysis
 O - a wand of paralysis
 R - a wand of slowing
 S - a wand of iceblast
 Y - a wand of lightning
Scrolls
 e - 5 scrolls of amnesia
 o - 3 scrolls of recharging
 t - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 v - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
 y - a scroll of teleportation
 I - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 K - 2 scrolls of fear
 Z - a scroll of fog
Potions
 c - 4 potions of curing
 g - 3 potions of invisibility
 j - 2 potions of brilliance
 k - 2 potions of cancellation
 m - 4 potions of magic
 r - 7 potions of haste
 u - 3 potions of resistance
 z - 2 potions of ambrosia
 C - 2 lumpy coppery potions
 J - 5 potions of flight
 M - 4 potions of might
 Q - a potion of heal wounds
Books
 D - a book of Air   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Shock                        Conjuration/Air               1
    b - Swiftness                    Charms/Air                    2
    c - Repel Missiles               Charms/Air                    2
    d - Static Discharge             Conjuration/Air               3
    e - Lightning Bolt               Conjuration/Air               5
 P - a book of Minor Magic   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Magic Dart                   Conjuration                   1
    b - Blink                        Translocation                 2
    c - Call Imp                     Summoning                     2
    d - Repel Missiles               Charms/Air                    2
    e - Slow                         Hexes                         2
    f - Conjure Flame                Conjuration/Fire              3
    g - Mephitic Cloud               Conjuration/Poison/Air        3
 V - a book of Debilitation   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Corona                       Hexes                         1
    b - Slow                         Hexes                         2
    c - Gell's Gravitas              Hexes/Translocation           3
    d - Inner Flame                  Hexes/Fire                    3
    e - Cause Fear                   Hexes                         4
    f - Leda's Liquefaction          Hexes/Earth                   4
 X - a book of Death   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Corpse Rot                   Necromancy                    2
    b - Sublimation of Blood         Necromancy                    2
    c - Agony                        Necromancy                    5
    d - Dispel Undead                Necromancy                    5
    e - Excruciating Wounds          Charms/Necromancy             5
    f - Bolt of Draining             Conjuration/Necromancy        5
Miscellaneous
 T - a phantom mirror
Comestibles
 b - 15 bread rations
 h - 2 meat rations
 W - a royal jelly


   Skills:
 - Level 13.0 Fighting
 - Level 8.0 Staves
 - Level 11.2 Dodging
 - Level 1.7 Stealth
 - Level 10.0 Spellcasting
 + Level 17.0 Conjurations
 - Level 6.0 Charms
 - Level 4.0 Translocations
 - Level 6.0 Poison Magic
 - Level 3.1 Evocations


You have 17 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         0%          1    None
b - Searing Ray           Conj           ######       0%          2    None
c - Iskenderun's Battles  Conj/Chrm      ######..     1%          5    None
d - Poison Arrow          Conj/Pois      ######....   10%         6    None
e - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ###...       2%          2    None
f - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (14/15)            Temple (1/1) D:4            Lair (6/6) D:8
  Swamp (0/4) Lair:2       Spider (0/4) Lair:2        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (1/2) D:9          Vaults (0/5) D:13       

Barkeep

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 21:44

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

Conjurations is plenty high for a long while.

I'd learn iskerendun's mystic blast [IMB], swiftness (only 2 levels and might come in handy), sublimation of blood, bolt of draining, and dispel undead. You only need one more spell slot for that — dispel undead can wait until you gain another character level. I would train necromancy to ~8, maybe as high as 10. Incidentally this will probably net you another book. (And/or give you more piety for channeling.)

With IMB, I think p. arrow at 10% is fine with sif for the time being. If you want to improve it then train poison magic, it is much cheaper at this point than conjurations. Taking poison magic as high as 8 or 9 would not be a waste imo but, seeing the other spells you have available, I wouldn't consider it a priority (pace my previous post).

Enchant your armor pieces. I'd bring the gloves to +2 (assuming there is not some artefact pair you are saving up for or something) and then enchant up the cloak when I got the chance.

Wear-ID that ring (you have remove curse). Use your next scroll of identify on the wand of hasting.

Buckler anywhere?

A better melee weapon has dropped somewhere, surely. Even if you don't want to train it yet, it is not a bad idea to carry around just in case. If there is a buckler to equip, carry around the best one-hander. Post your best-seeming options if you aren't sure what is the best one-hander.


Overall the character is not in dire straits, but it looks like you delayed learning spells available to you because you were waiting for exactly what you wanted. (I assume this is why you have so many levels in conjurations and so many spell slots available.) This has made things harder for you than it needed to be, honestly. Bolt of draining does great damage and particularly in combination with dispel undead, you can plow through most of a three-rune game with it.

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 22:42

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

and into wrote:I'd learn iskerendun's mystic blast [IMB], swiftness (only 2 levels and might come in handy), sublimation of blood, bolt of draining, and dispel undead. You only need one more spell slot for that — dispel undead can wait until you gain another character level. I would train necromancy to ~8, maybe as high as 10. Incidentally this will probably net you another book. (And/or give you more piety for channeling.)

Why IMB? Why is sublimation of blood good? It does self damage.

and into wrote:Wear-ID that ring (you have remove curse). Use your next scroll of identify on the wand of hasting.

What if it is rF- rC- -8 str -8int -8 dex MR- -6 ac -6 ev *Contam *Drain?

and into wrote:Buckler anywhere?

Why a buckler? It takes some exp to get online.

and into wrote:A better melee weapon has dropped somewhere, surely. Even if you don't want to train it yet, it is not a bad idea to carry around just in case. If there is a buckler to equip, carry around the best one-hander. Post your best-seeming options if you aren't sure what is the best one-hander.

Trying for lajatang. Can usually find at least one of those by depths.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 22:45

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

arandomperson12 wrote:Why is sublimation of blood good? It does self damage.
In exchange for MP, which can be quite good. Not sure if I'd bother with Sif, though.
arandomperson12 wrote:Why a buckler? It takes some exp to get online.
A very, very small amount of exp in exchange for some extra defenses! Bucklers are almost always worth it if you're using a 1hander. I use them on basically all spellcaster characters.

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 23:12

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

Should I train more dodging/fighting?
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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 23:27

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

You have a solid amount but if your power feels ok more HP/EV never hurts.

Barkeep

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 23:32

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

I'd learn IMB because with so much conjuration it will be a dependable way to kill cheaply without needing to train up anything else. Even with sif I'd get sub of blood if you are training necro anyway, and I would on this character based on books you currently have. (If there are other books available might be a better route but necro is looking pretty strong here.)

Ring — I missed that it was an artefact. If you are worried about the bad randart properties then sure, wait for a scroll of identify.

My reasoning for buckler was covered by Shard. You seem to be killing stuff mostly with spells, so a buckler or shield and 1-hander for backup often makes sense with that.

Trying for lajatang. Can usually find at least one of those by depths.


Lajatangs are cool, but you haven't found one yet. A backup weapon is just one inventory slot (that is, practically no cost). If you feel that you want a melee weapon and invest skill in it now / soon, you should go with the best one currently available.

Rather than training a weapon right now, another solid option (imo) is to branch into necromancy in the short term as I suggested, in which case you can wait a bit longer and see what other weapons drop. After necromancy, yeah I'd get a buckler and train it, then some more dodging / fighting. You could also reasonably go for a shield and train to 15 shield skill.

Note that getting 4 skill levels in shields for a buckler is actually a lot cheaper than getting another level of dodging for you. (You can press ! on the skill screen and see relative costs.) Now, EV is generally better than SH, point for point, but one level of dodging would get your character 1 more EV at best, whereas 4 shield skill and a buckler will get you like 5 or 6 points of SH. Overall that's a much better deal.

You said you feel a little squishy, and buckler plus some shield skill is a very cheap and fast way to help with that a bit.

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 23:42

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

I trained 4 levels of necromancy for 1% fail on bolt of draining. That kills stuff very quickly. Also, spamming staff of energy to regen mp instead of using 5 allows me to train non-magic skills without losing piety. In addition, I found a +1 qstaff of draining and wielded that. The ring was {+Fly rPois MR++ SInv Stlth-}. Should I get regeneration, animate skeleton, or animate dead?
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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 23:55

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

You should get all of them. If you can get animate dead castable soon you don't need to bother with skeleton, but Sif Muna gives amnesia anyways so go ham with learning spells. Definitely keep regen+animate dead though. Try shooting bolt of draining through allied zombies.
Last edited by Shard1697 on Thursday, 15th September 2016, 23:56, edited 1 time in total.

Barkeep

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 23:56

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

Cool, sounds like things are going (at least a little) better.

Regeneration and animate dead are both very worthwhile.

Regeneration is good for in-combat use if the battle looks like it might last a while. It is also useful after an encounter, to decrease the number of turns you spend at low HP. Helps prevent situations where a tough enemy wanders into view while you are at low HP. Particularly good in the Hells, when you are under wrath from a god, when you worship Xom. But useful in general and cheap.

Animate Dead is good too. It is great with Kiku, but still useful with any (or no) god. Just get it to a low-ish failure rate, as it doesn't care about spellpower, Sif protects against miscast, and you often cast it after a battle. (Though occasionally during, so you probably want like at least 25% failure rate or lower I'd say.) Whenever lots of corpses after a battle, rest up, then cast animate dead. Makes you a lot safer to be exploring the dungeon with a bunch of disposable HP bags around you. Hit ctrl+e to set your autoexplore speed to that of your minions, which will usually last until your next run-in. (Your slower movement speed immediately ends when an enemy comes into view, it is just an autoexplore convenience.)

Animate dead goes well with bolt of draining — your bolts of draining will pass through your undead minions without harming them at all (and thus won't make them turn on you, either). Very handy.

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Post Friday, 16th September 2016, 07:48

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

and into wrote:(Your slower movement speed immediately ends when an enemy comes into view, it is just an autoexplore convenience.)


Little correction: this setting can seldom kill or screw bad a char, while using this setting can destroy the player mental health, so it depends on whatever the player prefers. It is exactly like auto-explore that works well\better than manual explore 95% of cases and the 5% fuck you so bad that you wonder how is possible that the probably best and most basilar feature of DCSS goes so fucking wrong sometimes.

arandomperson12 wrote:Seems like veh is better than sif now.I already won a game with veh, so I decided to go sif Muna. How should I kill enemies?


I don't think so, all Sif powers are much better and stronger than Veh. As said before if you are actually losing piety without using too much channeling, you probably need to:
- use better spells against tough enemies
- use cheat mp solution against easy enemies, like magic dart + battleshpere or a weapon and so on
- use regen\sub of blood to rest less
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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Shoals Surfer

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Post Friday, 16th September 2016, 13:04

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

I just did a test and my character without magic started worshipping sif muna, split xp between spellcasting and weapon skill, and after 2 floors still hadn't gained a single star of piety.

So it looks like spellcasting doesn't count for sif mina piety.

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Post Friday, 16th September 2016, 13:27

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

Spellcasting should count, and probably does, but Sif's piety gain seems kind of wonky / slow at the moment. Probably needs to be tweaked some more to get balance right.

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Post Friday, 16th September 2016, 22:56

Re: Sif Muna Piety?

Just got +2 lajatang of protection off of Agnes.

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