The Tavern

I managed to make it out of dungeons easily but upon going to lair it was a huge step up from what dungeon was. There's there's several enemy's who are already faster then you without chei, one of them being the spiny frog which was marked as extremely dangerous on L1. Packs of yacks are very hard to deal with as lair usually generates open maps. For those who have won a full caster chei bro ( I'm assuming this has been done) any tips on getting through lair?

This is way too general. Give us a dump.
In general: C gives you more Int and thus higher spell success and higher spellpower to blast them. Also, higher Dex means higher EV, so let them come.
I also hope that this is not the "pure caster" challenge again. Chei + another challenge condition together is a bit too much for my taste.

Magipi wrote:This is way too general. Give us a dump.
In general: C gives you more Int and thus higher spell success and higher spellpower to blast them. Also, higher Dex means higher EV, so let them come.
I also hope that this is not the "pure caster" challenge again. Chei + another challenge condition together is a bit too much for my taste.

This is not a challenge, this is me just playing random viable pick first God

We need to see your skill allocations (among other things) to advise. Char dump please.

I can recommend neither Chei, Blasting, nor Casting. Rethink this.

Most important thing with blaster of Chei is to almost never use autoexplore. Carefully clear area around stairs, stay close to walls if possible. Explore open areas last, when everything else is already explored.
With some luck you will need to use weapon very rarely unless you do it intentionally to save mana.
Also get more Fighting/Dodging than with other gods, you can get less skills in magic but you needed defense because you cannot run away. Train Invocations for Slouch, it is better than any spells in some situations.
http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/CheiMu/morg ... 051207.txt

Characters that rely on MP to deal damage are terrible with Chei, it boggles my mind that people suggest book starts as optimal for Chei on here. Just never use autoexplore, maybe use heavier armor and get some weapon skill to conserve MP against weak enemies, and lure enemies to safe areas as best you can. Chei is best with very heavy armor and some support spells.

Luring enemies does not work with caster of Chei, you are better casting your full LoS spells instead. Yes, blaster casters of Chei are challenging, that's the point of Chei and blaster casters in general

Chei is pretty easy to win with if you just use heavy armor, go all in on Strength, and don't die before getting 5* of piety...

I agree. But it is not blaster caster... Also it is arguably easy to win with any character who is wearing heavy armour and reached 5* piety with any god.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:But it is not blaster caster...

Why not? There's nothing that says a conjuration-heavy character can't have defenses. What's the point of going chei on a character like this if not to wear heavier armor?

Without knowing your race or background this'll have to be pretty generalized:

This idea of a pure caster meaning that you're going to do all your damage with spells is going to be rough, you're just going to run out of MP and then get pounded. Training up one weapon skill is going to get you a lot more mileage than having one more spell school under your belt. I've won with a Chei "caster", but probably got half of my kills with weapons.

I'd say that due to the extra str and int you should at least be in medium armor (at this stage of the game) and still be able to have decent spell success. I also like spears a bunch for cheidudes, or possibly a ranged weapon for when you're fighting popcorn or go OOM. You're likely better off with lvl 3-5 spells and more xp into defensive and weapon skills than pushing to get some highlevel spell you can only cast 3 time before going OOM.

Catoblepas' probably are a larger threat than normal with the way they force you to move around too. Those should be a primary target. With hyrdas, some combo of salvoing all your spells onto them and being able to survive an attack or two should get you by. It probably is the fast evasive monsters like blink frogs which will cause you the most grief.

Blink Frogs can be killed by single Slouch, that's why it is a bad idea to enter Lair without getting Slouch.

Shard1697 wrote:
VeryAngryFelid wrote:But it is not blaster caster...
Why not? There's nothing that says a conjuration-heavy character can't have defenses. What's the point of going chei on a character like this if not to wear heavier armor?

I assumed we were talking about Lair. It is impossible to cast spells in heavy armour even with Chei at this stage.
Also I assumed if players started a magic background with intention to become blaster caster, they don't want to equip first plate armour and ignore spells. Of course it is a good idea to equip heavy armour later when you still can have all your spells along with great AC/EV.
Something like http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/CheiMu/morg ... 023212.txt

CypherZel wrote:
Magipi wrote:This is way too general. Give us a dump.
In general: C gives you more Int and thus higher spell success and higher spellpower to blast them. Also, higher Dex means higher EV, so let them come.
I also hope that this is not the "pure caster" challenge again. Chei + another challenge condition together is a bit too much for my taste.

This is not a challenge, this is me just playing random viable pick first God

"Blaster-casting" and "being able to deal damage to stuff in melee" are not even close to being mutually exclusive in Crawl.

Unless there is a challenge condition, then carry around a decent weapon and train it a bit. If you have decided in advance not to train a weapon, then you are playing with a self-imposed challenge condition.

(Why do people have such a hard time understanding this?)

Re: Chei, Even putting aside how mp conservation problems get worse when it is hard to retreat, Chei gives a huge strength boost. Never hitting stuff with Chei is almost as bad as training no dodging with Chei. Total waste of the big stat boost.

Yeah, my general chei/conjurations feeling is:
* Wear heavier armour than you normally would casting conjurations. This doesn't mean "pick up the first plate you see wooooo," keep your damage spells castable.
* Think about spell noise more than you would without chei, because getting swarmed can make a bad day.
* Pick up a decent weapon. Reaching is a bit less important with conjurations focus, pick something decent that you have a good aptitude in. Axes are better than normal with chei because moving in melee is more expensive.
* Train more dodging than you normally would in your armour; the Dex will help your EV pretty well.
* Soften dudes up with spells, then hit them with your melee weapon. Running out of MP and not having a decent melee option is not very fun if you can't walk away from fights.
* Don't walk towards monsters, basically ever. Make them come to you. You can and should still lure monsters; you just can't mindlessly drag a monster halfway across the level.
* Use your chei abilities! Bend Time is useful; slowing monsters is like hasting you.
* Remember that fast monsters can be really really really a lot faster than you. Hydras in water are one of the earliest "oh my god that got a lot closer to me" monsters, harpies later. In Zot, watch out for moths of wrath; berserked monsters also move large distances. Berserked orb guardians move hilariously large distances.

It's a fun build; you can be walking around with great defenses, spell power, and melee damage to make up for the fact that traditional crawl tactics don't work as well as they do on other characters.

and into wrote:
CypherZel wrote:
Magipi wrote:This is way too general. Give us a dump.
In general: C gives you more Int and thus higher spell success and higher spellpower to blast them. Also, higher Dex means higher EV, so let them come.
I also hope that this is not the "pure caster" challenge again. Chei + another challenge condition together is a bit too much for my taste.

This is not a challenge, this is me just playing random viable pick first God

"Blaster-casting" and "being able to deal damage to stuff in melee" are not even close to being mutually exclusive in Crawl.

Unless there is a challenge condition, then carry around a decent weapon and train it a bit. If you have decided in advance not to train a weapon, then you are playing with a self-imposed challenge condition.

(Why do people have such a hard time understanding this?)

Re: Chei, Even putting aside how mp conservation problems get worse when it is hard to retreat, Chei gives a huge strength boost. Never hitting stuff with Chei is almost as bad as training no dodging with Chei. Total waste of the big stat boost.

Again I never do challenges, I play all my conjugation based casters without training a weapon until after lair

There can certainly be games where, based on the situation, you start with a book and have higher priorities than training a weapon until after Lair. There can be specific games where doing that is, if not "optimal" (whatever that is), at least "a reasonable choice."

But if you "never train weapons until after Lair" on all your dudes focused on conjurations, you are definitely making things harder on yourself, at least some times.

This character would seem to be one of the times where it is making things harder on yourself, as indicated by the OP.

You are struggling in the Lair, when things should at least be starting to get a lot easier. Chei deserves some of the blame here, I'm sure, but a personal allergy to melee combat because you are in "blaster caster" mode probably deserves a lot of the blame, too.

Of course I am speaking in generalities here, but then I can't really be more specific, as you haven't posted a character dump, so I may well be off base or unhelpful.

Haven't had the time to post the dump but I will do later

Also Chei is unique god, it makes you do things which you never do with other gods, like wearing ring mail or even plate armour with DEWz, always having at least 10 MP as caster (Step from Time) or shouting when you see first Blink Frog or Killer Bee (Slouch). If you want to continue playing in a standard way, don't join Chei, it will kill your character.

Blaster casters don't even have to dump xp into weapon skills to do decent damage vs popcorn in melee, though if you're playing Chei, you should probably put some there in case something non-trivial shows up when you're out of mp.

Code:: 6155 CypherZel the Nimble (level 10, -14/66 HPs) Began as a Tengu Conjurer on Sept 8, 2016. Was the Champion of Cheibriados. Demolished by a spiny frog (20 damage) ... on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts on Sept 9, 2016. The game lasted 01:18:55 (14707 turns). CypherZel the Nimble (Tengu Conjurer) Turns: 14707, Time: 01:18:56 Health: -14/66 AC: 5 Str: 29 XL: 10 Next: 90% Magic: 1/18 EV: 22 Int: 38 God: Cheibriados [******] Gold: 326 SH: 0 Dex: 25 Spells: 6 memorised, 1 level left rFire . . . SeeInvis . r - +7 dagger of Waofryh {freeze, rElec rPois Str+2} rCold . . . Gourm . v - +0 robe of the Game Afoot {Str+4 Int+3 Dex-4} rNeg . . . Faith . (no shield) rPois + Spirit . (helmet restricted) rElec + Dismiss . A - +0 cloak rCorr . Reflect . n - +1 pair of gloves MR ..... Harm . (boots unavailable) Stlth +++....... (no amulet) (no ring) (no ring) @: very slow A: beak, talons 3, able to fly 1 a: Fly, Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Step From Time, Renounce Religion You were on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts. You worshipped Cheibriados. Cheibriados was exalted by your worship. You were hungry. You visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and saw 9 of its levels. You collected 380 gold pieces. You spent 54 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand Weapons i - a +0 mace r - the +7 dagger of Waofryh (weapon) {freeze, rElec rPois Str+2} (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly susceptible opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures. It affects your strength (+2). It insulates you from electricity. It protects you from poison. s - a +5 scimitar of holy wrath Armour a - a +0 robe n - a +1 pair of gloves (worn) v - the +0 robe of the Game Afoot (worn) {Str+4 Int+3 Dex-4} (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon) It affects your strength (+4). It affects your intelligence (+3). It affects your dexterity (-4). A - a +0 cloak (worn) Jewellery m - an uncursed amulet of magic regeneration {unknown} o - an uncursed ring of protection from cold {unknown} B - an uncursed ring of protection from fire {unknown} Wands t - a wand of random effects (33/48) D - a wand of flame (31/48) Scrolls d - 4 scrolls of identify g - a scroll of immolation u - a scroll of amnesia w - a scroll of magic mapping y - a scroll of enchant armour E - a scroll of remove curse Potions h - a potion of flight j - a potion of degeneration C - a potion of mutation Books b - a book of Conjurations Spells Type Level a - Magic Dart Conjuration 1 b - Searing Ray Conjuration 2 c - Dazzling Spray Conjuration/Hexes 3 d - Fulminant Prism Conjuration/Hexes 4 e - Iskenderun's Mystic Blast Conjuration 4 f - Iskenderun's Battlesphere Conjuration/Charms 5 e - a book of Flames Spells Type Level a - Flame Tongue Conjuration/Fire 1 b - Throw Flame Conjuration/Fire 2 c - Conjure Flame Conjuration/Fire 3 d - Inner Flame Hexes/Fire 3 e - Sticky Flame Conjuration/Fire 4 f - Fireball Conjuration/Fire 5 x - a book of Alchemy Spells Type Level a - Sublimation of Blood Necromancy 2 b - Ignite Poison Fire/Transmutation/Poison 3 c - Petrify Transmutation/Earth 4 d - Alistair's Intoxication Transmutation/Poison 5 e - Irradiate Conjuration/Transmutation 5 Comestibles c - 10 bread rations f - 4 meat rations l - 2 royal jellies p - a slice of pizza q - 3 beef jerkies F - a fruit Skills: - Level 9.0 Fighting - Level 9.3 Dodging - Level 2.0 Stealth - Level 5.1 Spellcasting - Level 9.1 Conjurations - Level 2.4 Hexes + Level 5.0 Charms You had one spell level left. You knew the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Magic Dart Conj #### 1% 1 None b - Searing Ray Conj ###### 1% 2 None c - Dazzling Spray Conj/Hex ###### 1% 3 None d - Conjure Flame Conj/Fire #####... 1% 3 None e - Fulminant Prism Conj/Hex ######.... 3% 4 ##..... f - Iskenderun's Battles Conj/Chrm ######.. 8% 5 #####.. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (8/15) Temple (0/1) D:7 Lair (1/6) D:8 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Hepliaklqana Nemelex Xobeh Ru Xom Yredelemnul Shops: D:7 (([ Annotations: D:3 Terence D:4 exclusion: ice beast, Charly's ghost, amateur DEFE D:5 Dowan; Duvessa; Eustachio Lair:1 exclusion: yak Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You have a beak for a mouth. You have claws for feet. You can fly. Message History You closely miss the spiny frog. Your kick misses the spiny frog. You peck the spiny frog, but do no damage. The spiny frog is moderately wounded. The spiny frog stings you!! * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * Casting: Searing Ray Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells. Aiming: Dazzling Spray Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - spiny frog Aim: a spiny frog (moderately wounded) The spray of energy hits the spiny frog. The spiny frog is heavily wounded. The spiny frog misses you. You are too injured to fight recklessly! You barely miss the spiny frog. You claw the spiny frog. The spiny frog is heavily wounded. The spiny frog stings you. * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * The spiny frog stings you!! You die... #...†.... #....... ... #......† ... #....... ... ##...... ... #####....## ... ..## ### ##.#.##†##.# ... .....##.######.......#### ... .......F@..............# ... ..####.######.....P#..## ... ### ##...P.....# ... ##..........# ... #............ ... ##............ ... ##..#..Y....... ... ##..#..Y........ ### ##..##........=.. You could see a spiny frog. Vanquished Creatures A spriggan (D:7) 8 yaks A hippogriff (D:8) A basilisk (Lair:1) A water moccasin (D:8) 2 orc warriors (D:8) 4 sky beasts A black bear (D:7) An ice beast (D:8) 2 phantoms (D:6) A necrophage (D:8) 4 ogres 8 centaurs 2 big kobolds 7 giant frogs A water moccasin skeleton (D:8) A scorpion (D:4) 3 killer bees (D:6) 3 howler monkeys (D:8) 8 crimson imps A hound (D:7) 2 jellies 10 orc wizards A giant frog zombie (D:6) 2 orc priests 2 iguanas (D:7) 7 worker ants A howler monkey zombie (D:7) A worker ant zombie (D:8) 10 adders 12 gnolls 14 river rats 6 oozes 7 worms 4 dart slugs 6 giant geckos 36 orcs A ball python (D:5) 4 giant cockroaches 3 goblins 10 hobgoblins 22 jackals 19 kobolds 6 quokkas 13 bats A giant gecko skeleton (D:4) 6 giant newts A jackal skeleton (D:4) 2 quokka skeletons (D:5) 15 rats 2 butterflies (D:6) 287 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) 3 fulminant prisms (Lair:1) 11 fungi (D:8) 2 plants (D:8) 16 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 303 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------+----------+------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | CypherZel the Tengu Conjurer began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 4/4 455 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 4/6 459 | D:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Searing Ray 908 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 0/7 973 | D:1 | Learned a level 3 spell: Dazzling Spray 2104 | D:2 | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados. 2144 | D:2 | Became a worshipper of Cheibriados the Contemplative 2182 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 23/24 MP: 2/8 2781 | D:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 3038 | D:3 | Noticed Terence 3295 | D:3 | Reached * piety under Cheibriados 3351 | D:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting 3378 | D:3 | Gained mutation: You can fly. [Tengu growth] 3378 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 26/30 MP: 1/9 4284 | D:3 | Reached ** piety under Cheibriados 4349 | D:3 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 37/37 MP: 4/10 4634 | D:4 | Noticed Charly's ghost (amateur DEFE) 5049 | D:4 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 5193 | D:4 | Noticed an ice beast 5510 | D:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 5964 | D:4 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 44/44 MP: 2/11 6065 | D:4 | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame 6131 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 6414 | D:5 | Noticed Eustachio 6482 | D:5 | Reached skill level 1 in Hexes 6546 | D:5 | Noticed Dowan 6560 | D:5 | Noticed Duvessa 6895 | D:5 | Got a smoking dagger 6896 | D:5 | Identified the +7 dagger of Waofryh {freeze, rElec rPois Str+2} (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) 7038 | D:6 | Reached *** piety under Cheibriados 7401 | D:6 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 49/49 MP: 6/12 7609 | D:6 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 7610 | D:6 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon. 7788 | D:6 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom. 7867 | D:6 | Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana. 7889 | D:6 | Reached **** piety under Cheibriados 8027 | D:6 | Got a shadowed robe 8028 | D:6 | Identified the +0 robe of the Game Afoot {Str+4 Int+3 Dex-4} (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon) 8273 | D:6 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 8925 | D:7 | Found Musauf's Weapon Emporium. 9017 | D:7 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 9017 | D:7 | Found Jieskiav's Weapon Emporium. 9024 | D:6 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 57/57 MP: 3/14 9111 | D:6 | Learned a level 4 spell: Fulminant Prism 9223 | D:7 | Found Piowug's Armour Emporium. 9820 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting 9827 | D:6 | Learned a level 5 spell: Iskenderun's Battlesphere 10602 | D:7 | Reached ***** piety under Cheibriados 11037 | D:8 | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru. 11612 | D:8 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 56/63 MP: 10/18 12692 | D:7 | Bought a +0 cloak for 54 gold pieces 12735 | D:8 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul. 13328 | D:8 | Reached ****** piety under Cheibriados 13538 | D:8 | Reached skill level 1 in Charms 14013 | D:8 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 14350 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 14610 | Lair:1 | Noticed a spiny frog 14696 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 5 in Charms 14707 | Lair:1 | Demolished by a spiny frog Vault maps used: D:1: dpeg_arrival_boxes_within_box D:2: nicolae_overflow_crystal_walls, first_bread, minmay_small_reverse_x D:3: uniq_terence D:4: serial_bayou_pond_d, nemelex_dance_club_becter D:5: uniq_duvessa, uniq_eustachio D:6: grunt_temple_overflow_open, xom_butterflies, old_standard_altar, nemelex_xobeh_ov_fountains_minmay D:7: serial_shops, shop, nicolae_shop_crystal, shop, the_bakery D:8: nicolae_ru_sacrificial_ziggurat, grunt_lair_entry_orc_guard_hut, basic_altar Lair:1: serial_bayou_lagoon_a, serial_bayou_shore_b Skill XL: | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 | ---------------+-------------------------------+----- Dodging | 3 4 5 7 9 | 9.3 Fighting | 2 3 5 7 9 | 9.0 Hexes | 2 | 2.4 Conjurations | 7 9 | 9.1 Spellcasting | 5 | 5.1 Charms | 5 | 5.0 Stealth | | 2.0 Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Mace | | 10 | | || 10 Kick | | 7 | 11 | 18 || 36 Peck | | 2 | 8 | 10 || 20 Scimitar | | 29 | 1 | || 30 Dagger | | | 38 | 29 || 67 Cast: Magic Dart | 78 | 133 | 130 | 157 || 498 Searing Ray | 2 | 17 | 44 | 30 || 93 Dazzling Spray | | | 40 | 23 || 63 Conjure Flame | | | | 3 || 3 Fulminant Prism | | | | 3 || 3 Abil: Fly | | | 1 | || 1 Use: Scroll | | 7 | 7 | 2 || 16 Potion | | 4 | | 4 || 8 Stab: Invisible | | | 1 | || 1 Eat: Chunk | 5 | 10 | 9 | 4 || 28 Armor: Robe | 1 | 4 | 19 | 7 || 31 Skin | | 7 | | || 7 Dodge: Dodged | 3 | 40 | 121 | 106 || 270

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Also Chei is unique god, it makes you do things which you never do with other gods, like wearing ring mail or even plate armour with DEWz, always having at least 10 MP as caster (Step from Time) or shouting when you see first Blink Frog or Killer Bee (Slouch). If you want to continue playing in a standard way, don't join Chei, it will kill your character.

I enjoy playing chei alot, I also always go the first god I see regardless of what I started out as when playing random

Why didn't you learn Iskenderun's Mystic Blast?
It is the best spell from Cj book with Chei in Lair, you might train more spellcasting for MP instead of Charms.
Tengu Conjurer is hard with Chei, as it has low HP and loses ability to fly away.

Code:: Jewellery m - an uncursed amulet of magic regeneration {unknown} o - an uncursed ring of protection from cold {unknown} B - an uncursed ring of protection from fire {unknown}

???????

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Why didn't you learn Iskenderun's Mystic Blast?
It is the best spell from Cj book with Chei in Lair, you might train more spellcasting for MP instead of Charms.
Tengu Conjurer is hard with Chei, as it has low HP and loses ability to fly away.

I usually don't learn it as I never use it, I always use a level 5 conjugation/elemental spell

That robe was bad, maybe a regular +1 or +2 robe would have been somewhere? Also, you should have enchanted the cloak. Why were you carrying a potion of degeneration?

CypherZel wrote:I usually don't learn it as I never use it, I always use a level 5 conjugation/elemental spell

That's... a really bad decision. IMB is one of the arguably best spells in early and mid game if used properly. Almost full LOS range, high damage and mp efficiency makes it on par with fireball\bolts in certain situations. Or even a better spell than they are.
Sure it doesn't provide that much coverage, but it does the killing job done.
Getting spellpower for it is easier than anything else, and getting it online is trivial whereas fireball\anything_you've_imagined isn't.

Did you slow the frog with Bend Time? They're some of the most dangerous things you'll meet in Lair; it is totally worth the piety to make them weaker. You want to use it the turn they get adjacent to you.

njvack wrote:Did you slow the frog with Bend Time? They're some of the most dangerous things you'll meet in Lair; it is totally worth the piety to make them weaker. You want to use it the turn they get adjacent to you.

I think it is not a good idea for character who uses just mana to kill things.

...what?

Bend Time doesn't use that much mana. It's well worth it.

3 MP is a lot when you have 18 MP max and use level 4 spells. We are talking about characters who don't melee (like OP), what's the point of having adjacent heavily wounded slowed Spiny Frog when you have 0 MP and cannot kill it.

What blaster caster has 3 max MP

slowing enemies is almost always worth it if they're at all threatening

I hate writing blaster caster because it makes me think of mad max 3

I am talking about character from OP, it had 18 max MP.

Sprucery wrote:That robe was bad, maybe a regular +1 or +2 robe would have been somewhere? Also, you should have enchanted the cloak. Why were you carrying a potion of degeneration?

I only drop things when I hit max carry load

vergil wrote:
CypherZel wrote:I usually don't learn it as I never use it, I always use a level 5 conjugation/elemental spell

That's... a really bad decision. IMB is one of the arguably best spells in early and mid game if used properly. Almost full LOS range, high damage and mp efficiency makes it on par with fireball\bolts in certain situations. Or even a better spell than they are.
Sure it doesn't provide that much coverage, but it does the killing job done.
Getting spellpower for it is easier than anything else, and getting it online is trivial whereas fireball\anything_you've_imagined isn't.

Thanks I will try to use the spell more often now

njvack wrote:Did you slow the frog with Bend Time? They're some of the most dangerous things you'll meet in Lair; it is totally worth the piety to make them weaker. You want to use it the turn they get adjacent to you.

I didn't have bend time online anyway

goodcoolguy wrote:I can recommend neither Chei, Blasting, nor Casting. Rethink this.

Make use of your god's powers. Lair is very open, which makes step out of time more effective. Slouch deals heavy damage on faster things. Avoid moving with arrow keys when enemies are nearby, you will be hit, possibly more than once. If you need to move, use a spell like blink. Clouds are extremely dangerous for you, because you will spend much more time in them. Use armour as heavy as you can wear, Chei attributes allow to cast lvl 8 spells in heavy armour. Learn to use a weapon. Learn translocations. Remember that you can't just run away and recover MP. cBlink is your best friend, once you can cast it. Chei also works decently with bows, in general you can hybridize a lot.

Why were you wearing a robe? you were worshiping Chei.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
njvack wrote:Did you slow the frog with Bend Time? They're some of the most dangerous things you'll meet in Lair; it is totally worth the piety to make them weaker. You want to use it the turn they get adjacent to you.

I think it is not a good idea for character who uses just mana to kill things.

I don't know what to say for a Chei char who uses just mana to kill things. That sounds terrible because you'll run out of MP no matter what you do, and you can't walk away from things while you get more mana.

You can use conjurations and melee together. You should! Especially if you're playing Chei!

v - +0 robe of the Game Afoot {Str+4 Int+3 Dex-4}

This is one of the worst possible armor items I could imagine for your character. The primary purpose of strength is to wear heavier armor (particularly if you're a caster and not engaged in melee), which you've locked yourself out of with the very same item. Chei already boosts your int into the stratosphere, so you're getting only the tiniest benefit from the +3 int, and the Dex hit actually hurts your defenses a bit. A plain +0 leather armor would be better than this piece of crap. For that matter, a +0 robe would be comparable or better.

njvack wrote:You can use conjurations and melee together. You should! Especially if you're playing Chei!

This. Chei's stat boosts should also allow you to conserve some exp you'd otherwise be spending on spell schools, which you can use to spend on much needed weapon skils.

Main problem with Chei blaster casters is that they naturally become melee characters. I tried to play DsCj of Chei as blaster caster (put all stat points into Int, limited my body armour to have all spells castable, Conjurations was highest skill until Vaults etc.) and still ended with mostly melee character who casted IMB, Animate Dead, Bolt of Draining and Death Channel sometimes

Is that really a problem? It seems like such a natural consequence of Chei conduct and Crawl's flexible skill system, which is one of its strengths IMO.

True. Yet I wanted to play a blaster caster, I even found books with Fireball and Bolt of Fire early. But then I imagined how annoying it will be to run away at low MP after doing all that noise and continued training defenses and melee skill for better weapon instead.

Question: does chei allow you to have level 9 spells online in a 3 rune game?

If you really want them you can get them even without Chei, so yes.

If you just want to cast level 9 spells before too late in the game, worship Vehumet, who will also give you the high level spells so you don't have to rely on luck of the drop.

Chei gives a big boost to all stats. The type of character really supported by Chei's boost is not so much "cast level 9 spells" but rather "hit stuff hard, wear heavy stuff, and cast lots of spells that care about spellpower, while also still having high EV." Chei also gives some fun invocation abilities, if you aren't interested in using them much, don't go Chei, imho.

It's probably worth noticing that Sludge ignores evasion. Good against ultra-EV demon lords, if piety intensive.

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