Holy Wrath in a 3-Runer

[Utis]

Generally speaking, I would normally prefer another brand on my end game weapon. But I'm starting to wonder: Assuming the base weapon is really good, highly enchanted and assuming the character is way ahead of the killing curve anyway -- Isn't it the case that many foes that are actually still dangerous to such a character are vulnerable to holy? Roughly speaking: If stone giants and deep trolls are pushovers anyway, I don't need an edge against them, but I might need an edge against liches.

Though maybe I'm having a knot in my brain right now. All I can think of at the moment that would contradict this are caustic shrikes, juggernauts and OoF, all of which make me reach for consumables rather than wishing for a little more damage on my weapon. Maybe in Vaults ironbrand convokers, and maybe vault wardens, if another brand would kill them at least a turn faster on average.

So, yeah, I suppose in the end something like Freezing is more desirable than Holy Wrath. So, my question is probably rather: how much? Assuming, I have no ?brand weapon and a holy wrath weapon is my best choice by a large margin, would I dump all my ?enchant weapon into it (and adjust my build, if necessary)? I think the answer is: yes. Assuming I have ?brand weapon, would I use it on that weapon and risk getting venom? I think the answer is: no.

[vergil]

I think vorpal is the best for 3R, since it isn't dependant on any resistance.
Holy is great in extended, if you can wield it ofc.
Freezing and flaming is okay, but vorpal and holy is much more desirable.
If you have spare scrolls - find a decent weapon, and brand it. If it is vorpal\freezing\flaming, dump the rest of enchant scrolls in it.

And you can always carry another weapon and switch to it, having the best weapon against the odds.

[Sprucery]

I think vorpal is the best for 3R, since it isn't dependant on any resistance.

But it does less damage than most other brands against non-resistant monsters, which makes it worse than them. It's not worth doing less damage against 90% of monsters just so that you do more damage against 10% of monsters (numbers pulled out of thin air). I would say in general only chaos, protection and venom are worse brands in the late game.

About holy wrath: in a 3-rune game it's not that great because you don't meet so many demons and undead. Of course it's great agains liches and curse toes in zot. But if it really is the OP's best weapon so you don't want to keep it only as a switch, then I would rebrand. You have a 35/148 chance of getting venom, protection or chaos, so judge for yourself :)

[Utis]

Yeah, in the run that triggered me asking this question it was a +5 double sword of HW which was definitely the best weapon at that time and which was quickly enchanted to +9. In the end I did rebrand with the first scroll. I think there's a flaw in my reasoning in the OP (and that's even if the base assumption happens to be true):

Even if HW is "good enough" against all normal threats, what matters is the average HP% left after the average encounter, not the peak damage against occasional peak threats. Next time, I'll think more before posting. But thank you, anyways!

[Sar]

chaos ... worse brands in the late game

But chaos is the best brand in the late game! The best!

[Sprucery]

Sure, like Xom is the best god.

[Sar]

No, it's very different. You really owe it to yourself to try it. Well, if you get a good weapon of chaos, that is. Still, highly recommend it for fun and profit - if you ever brand your endgame weapon with chaos, don't rebrand it!

[Sprucery]

OK, got to give it a try sometime. The chance to berserk is not too big I guess...

[Sar]

It really shines in postend since demons don't berserk.

[dowan]

Freezing is one of the more desirable 3r brands, because it slows many enemies, including draconians, and isn't too widely resisted.
Flaming is OK, not quite as good as freezing
Vorpal is nice due to nothing resisting it, but you're doing less damage to non-resistant enemies than you would be anyway.
Elec is fantastic, not widely resisted and quite damaging. Although it's an additive damage brand, it adds so much damage it's better than the multiplicative brands almost all the time.

I wouldn't rebrand my weapon if it had any of these brands.

A chaos dagger on a stabber can be fantastic in late game. It's still dangerous, and probably sub optimal (but then so is a stabber) but it's fun as hell, and most of the time you end up just killing stuff extra fast... sometimes you duplicate them instead of course.

[and into]

Yeah, in the run that triggered me asking this question it was a +5 double sword of HW which was definitely the best weapon at that time and which was quickly enchanted to +9. In the end I did rebrand with the first scroll. I think there's a flaw in my reasoning in the OP (and that's even if the base assumption happens to be true):

Even if HW is "good enough" against all normal threats, what matters is the average HP% left after the average encounter, not the peak damage against occasional peak threats. Next time, I'll think more before posting. But thank you, anyways!

Right — "more killing power" only hits real diminishing returns when you are already one-shotting the enemy in question fairly consistently. Realistically this doesn't happen against most late game enemies.

Against the occasional (a.) lich, you should just use consumables aggressively. Note there are two rather niche scrolls (holy word and silence) that are pretty great against isolated liches.

Of course, it is fine to keep a HW weapon to swap (though that didn't really apply in your case, where the question is whether or not to rebrand).

[njvack]

I used chaos really successfully in a game not long ago. Yes, there's a danger of it berserking something threatening (without nearly killing it first) but as long as you're prepared for that and can escape, it mostly helps you. Generally the worst thing it might do is make something invisible and then berserk it.

I'd rebrand wrath in a 3-rune game, though.

[cerebovssquire]

Invis doesn't matter much on a chaos weapon, you know where the monster is, so it only gives an accuracy penalty. But if we are discussing chaos as a lategame weapon you will have good enchantment on the weapon, and very probably high weapon skill and Fighting. Monster invis is generally harmless, too.

Duplication probably is the worst effect next to berserk, but thankfully very rare. Which is worse depends on the monster.