HaFi (SB) - General Advice


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Blades Runner

Posts: 536

Joined: Friday, 1st April 2016, 18:15

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 19:20

HaFi (SB) - General Advice

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-1210-g5c1aa26 (tiles) character file.

Kaym the Cutter (Halfling Fighter)                  Turns: 1181, Time: 00:02:54

Health: 26/26      AC:  9    Str: 16    XL:     3   Next: 95%
Magic:  3/3        EV:  9    Int:  7    God:   
Gold:   99         SH:  9    Dex: 14    Spells: 0 memorised, 2 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis .    a - +0 rapier
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    b - +0 scale mail
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    c - +0 shield
rPois  .          Spirit   .    (no helmet)
rElec  .          Dismiss  .    (no cloak)
rCorr  .          Reflect  .    l - +1 pair of gloves
MR     .....      Harm     .    (no boots)
Stlth  ..........               (no amulet)
                                (no ring)
                                m - ring of protection from fire

@: no status effects
A: mutation resistance 1
a: no special abilities


You are on level 2 of the Dungeon.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and seen 2 of its levels.

You have collected 99 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +0 rapier (weapon)
 e - a +0 dagger of venom
Missiles
 k - 42 stones (quivered)
Armour
 b - a +0 scale mail (worn)
 c - a +0 shield (worn)
 l - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
Jewellery
 m - a ring of protection from fire (left hand)
Scrolls
 g - 2 scrolls of teleportation
Potions
 d - a potion of might
 j - a potion of curing
 n - a potion of ambrosia
Comestibles
 f - a bread ration
 h - 6 chunks of flesh


   Skills:
 + Level 3.0 Fighting
 * Level 4.0 Short Blades
 + Level 3.5 Armour
 - Level 0.4 Dodging
 - Level 3.6 Shields


You have 2 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (2/15)           

Altars:

Annotations:
D:2 Robin


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are small and have problems with some larger weapons.
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.


Message History

The giant newt hisses angrily.
You see here a goblin skeleton.
You puncture the giant newt!
You kill the giant newt!
Your Fighting skill increases to level 3!
You start resting.
HP restored.
You see here a goblin skeleton.
You see here a club.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You climb downwards.
Level annotation: Robin
The goblin barely misses you. The hobgoblin barely misses you. You block the goblin's attack.
There is a stone staircase leading up, spattered with blood here.
You see here a stone.
Unknown command.
Save game and exit?
Level annotation: Robin
Welcome back, Kaym the Halfling Fighter.
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.

          #####
         $.....
        #......
 #.#####g......
 #....g@..g..<.
!....####g.....
...       .....
.          .###
            #


You can see Robin, a hobgoblin and 2 goblins.

Vanquished Creatures
  A gnoll (D:1)
  A giant cockroach (D:1)
  12 goblins (D:1)
  3 hobgoblins (D:1)
  4 jackals (D:1)
  2 ball pythons (D:1)
  3 bats (D:1)
  2 giant newts (D:1)
  2 kobolds (D:1)
  2 rats (D:1)
32 creatures vanquished.

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Kaym the Halfling Fighter began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 15/15 MP: 1/1
   127 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Short Blades
   242 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 20/20 MP: 2/2
   358 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/25 MP: 3/3
   857 | D:2      | Noticed Robin
   870 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Short Blades
  1135 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Fighting

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3 |
---------------+----------+-----
Short Blades   |  3     4 |  4.0
Fighting       |        3 |  3.0
Armour         |          |  3.5
Dodging        |          |  0.4
Shields        |          |  3.6

Action                   || total
-------------------------++-------
Melee: Rapier            ||    87
  Use: Scroll            ||     6
  Eat: Chunk             ||     1
Armor: Scale mail        ||    33
Dodge: Dodged            ||    29
Block: Shield            ||    36
twelwe wrote:It's like Blink, but you end up drowning.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2163

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 19:22

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

Never use short blades (unless you are a stabber).

HaFi is a hard combo.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 19:23

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

I would use dagger of venom, train SBl only for a while and join either Trog or Oka for ammo gifts (sling bullets and needles).

Blades Runner

Posts: 536

Joined: Friday, 1st April 2016, 18:15

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 19:30

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-1210-g5c1aa26 (tiles) character file.

Kaym the Cutter (Halfling Fighter)                  Turns: 5539, Time: 00:12:45

Health: 48/48      AC: 12    Str: 16    XL:     7   Next: 86%
Magic:  7/7        EV: 10    Int:  4    God:   
Gold:   252        SH: 10    Dex: 16    Spells: 0 memorised, 6 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis .    b - +0 hunting sling
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    i - +0 scale mail
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    c - +0 shield
rPois  .          Spirit   .    o - +0 helmet
rElec  .          Dismiss  .    (no cloak)
rCorr  .          Reflect  .    l - +1 pair of gloves
MR     .....      Harm     .    r - +0 pair of boots
Stlth  ..........               j - amulet of magic regeneration
                                y - -3 ring of intelligence (curse)
                                m - ring of protection from fire

@: no status effects
A: mutation resistance 1
a: no special abilities


You are on level 4 of the Dungeon.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and seen 4 of its levels.

You have collected 252 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +1 rapier
 b - a +0 hunting sling (weapon)
 e - a +0 dagger of venom
 h - a +2 short sword of draining
 t - a +0 falchion
Missiles
 k - 118 stones (quivered)
 s - 44 sling bullets
Armour
 c - a +0 shield (worn)
 i - a +0 scale mail (worn)
 l - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
 o - a +0 helmet (worn)
 r - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
Jewellery
 j - an amulet of magic regeneration (around neck)
 m - a ring of protection from fire (left hand)
 y - a cursed -3 ring of intelligence (right hand)
Scrolls
 g - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 q - 5 scrolls of remove curse
 w - a scroll of enchant armour
Potions
 d - a potion of might
 n - a potion of ambrosia
 p - 2 potions of resistance
 v - 2 potions of agility
 z - a potion of brilliance
Comestibles
 f - 3 bread rations
 u - 3 fruits


   Skills:
 - Level 4.2 Fighting
 - Level 7.6 Short Blades
 - Level 5.0 Armour
 + Level 2.4 Dodging
 - Level 3.6 Shields


You have 6 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (4/15)           
Temple: D:4-7       

Altars:


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are small and have problems with some larger weapons.
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.


Message History

Okay, then.
Unknown command.
You are now empty-handed.
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Adjust to which letter?  (? for menu, Esc to quit)
b - a +0 hunting sling; i - a +0 scale mail (worn)
Unknown command.
You see here an arrow.
Done exploring.
a - a +1 rapier (weapon)
b - a +0 hunting sling (weapon)
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Move the cursor to view the level map, or type ? for a list of commands.
Returning to the game...
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
Save game and exit?
Welcome back, Kaym the Halfling Fighter.
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.

  #.##?...#.# ##
  #.#####.#.# #.
  #.#...#...###.
  #............+
  #.#.#.######..
  #...#.#    #..
  #####.######..
  #...@.........
  #.##########..
###.#####    #..
#.......#    #..
#.......######..
#...............
#.......######..
#.....(......#..


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Edmund (D:2)
  Menkaure (D:4)
  A centaur (D:4)
  An orc priest (D:3)
  Ijyb (D:3)
  Jessica (D:2)
  A worker ant (D:4)
  Robin (D:1)
  5 gnolls
  5 adders
  A river rat (D:3)
  An ooze (D:2)
  An adder skeleton (D:4)
  A worm (D:4)
  4 giant geckos (D:3)
  7 orcs
  5 giant cockroaches
  16 goblins
  9 hobgoblins
  18 jackals
  A quokka (D:4)
  4 ball pythons
  4 bats
  3 giant newts
  4 kobolds
  8 rats
105 creatures vanquished.

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Kaym the Halfling Fighter began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 15/15 MP: 1/1
   127 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Short Blades
   242 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 20/20 MP: 2/2
   358 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/25 MP: 3/3
   857 | D:2      | Noticed Robin
   870 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Short Blades
  1135 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Fighting
  1209 | D:1      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/31 MP: 4/4
  1270 | D:1      | Killed Robin
  2101 | D:2      | Noticed Jessica
  2109 | D:2      | Killed Jessica
  2109 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Short Blades
  2109 | D:2      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 36/36 MP: 5/5
  2940 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Armour
  3117 | D:3      | Noticed Ijyb
  3127 | D:3      | Killed Ijyb
  3127 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Short Blades
  3127 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 42/42 MP: 6/6
  3908 | D:4      | Noticed Edmund
  3950 | D:3      | HP: 2/43 [Edmund/dire flail of holy wrath (2)]
  4274 | D:2      | Killed Edmund
  4274 | D:2      | Reached skill level 7 in Short Blades
  4274 | D:2      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 20/47 MP: 7/7
  4624 | D:4      | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
  4702 | D:4      | Noticed Menkaure
  4710 | D:4      | Killed Menkaure
  5010 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  5287 | D:4      | Reached skill level 2 in Dodging

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 |
---------------+----------------------+-----
Short Blades   |  3     4  5  6  7    |  7.6
Fighting       |        3           4 |  4.2
Armour         |              4     5 |  5.0
Dodging        |                    2 |  2.4
Shields        |                      |  3.6

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Rapier            |    97 |   226 |    65 ||   388
       Short sword       |       |    32 |       ||    32
  Use: Scroll            |     6 |     6 |     6 ||    18
       Potion            |       |     1 |       ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     1 |    10 |     4 ||    15
Armor: Scale mail        |    42 |    69 |    18 ||   129
Dodge: Dodged            |    33 |    85 |    22 ||   140
Block: Shield            |    45 |   120 |    22 ||   187


Advice received. Switching to falchion/dagger of venom, going to join Oka.
twelwe wrote:It's like Blink, but you end up drowning.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 19:34

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

Also don't forget to try different body armours. I suspect a ring mail can be better because of Ha size.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1738

Joined: Tuesday, 13th March 2012, 02:48

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 20:10

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

Magipi wrote:HaFi is a hard combo.


Halfling is one of the easier races, and Fighter is a good background.

For this message the author Rast has received thanks: 2
Brannock, Sar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 20:13

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

Rast wrote:Halfling is one of the easier races, and Fighter is a good background.


Really? I believe it is inferior to all races without HP penalty (except Mu) and to some races with HP penalty (Sp, VS)

Blades Runner

Posts: 536

Joined: Friday, 1st April 2016, 18:15

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 20:19

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

HP isn't everything...

Anyway, regardless of the average HaFi's difficulty, this one feels pretty damn strong...

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-1210-g5c1aa26 (tiles) character file.

Kaym the Carver (Halfling Fighter)                 Turns: 18828, Time: 00:43:10

HP:   72/72 (74)    AC: 13    Str: 17    XL:     12   Next: 29%
MP:   15/15         EV: 16    Int: 11    God:    Okawaru [*****.]
Gold: 786           SH: 13    Dex: 18    Spells: 3 memorised, 6 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis .    a - +0 scimitar (vamp)
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    I - +0 ring mail
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    c - +0 shield
rPois  .          Spirit   .    o - +0 helmet
rElec  .          Dismiss  .    y - +1 cloak
rCorr  .          Reflect  .    D - +1 pair of gloves
MR     .....      Harm     .    r - +0 pair of boots
Stlth  +.........               j - amulet of magic regeneration
                                R - +4 ring of intelligence
                                m - ring of protection from fire

@: no status effects
A: mutation resistance 1
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 13 of its levels.

You have collected 786 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +0 vampiric scimitar (weapon)
 b - a +0 hunting sling
 h - a +2 short sword of draining
 U - a +2 long sword
Missiles
 k - 434 stones (quivered)
 l - a throwing net
 s - 74 sling bullets
Armour
 c - a +0 shield (worn)
 o - a +0 helmet (worn)
 r - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 y - a +1 cloak (worn)
 D - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
 I - a +0 ring mail (worn)
Jewellery
 j - an amulet of magic regeneration (around neck)
 m - a ring of protection from fire (left hand)
 R - a +4 ring of intelligence (right hand)
Wands
 B - a wand of heal wounds (7/9)
 N - a wand of polymorph
 Q - a wand of teleportation
Scrolls
 e - a scroll of recharging
 g - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 i - 3 scrolls of identify
 q - 7 scrolls of remove curse
 w - a scroll of enchant armour
 A - 2 scrolls of blinking
 G - 2 scrolls of fog
 J - 2 scrolls of amnesia
 K - a scroll of holy word
 M - a scroll of magic mapping
Potions
 d - 2 potions of might
 n - 3 potions of ambrosia
 p - 2 potions of resistance
 v - 3 potions of agility
 x - 3 potions of haste
 z - 2 potions of brilliance
 Z - a metallic blue potion
Books
 F - a book of Air   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Shock                        Conjuration/Air               1
    b - Swiftness                    Charms/Air                    2
    c - Repel Missiles               Charms/Air                    2
    d - Static Discharge             Conjuration/Air               3
    e - Lightning Bolt               Conjuration/Air               5
 H - a book of Transfigurations   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Irradiate                    Conjuration/Transmutation     5
    b - Statue Form                  Transmutation/Earth           6
    c - Hydra Form                   Transmutation                 6
    d - Dragon Form                  Transmutation                 7
 S - a book of Flames   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Flame Tongue                 Conjuration/Fire              1
    b - Throw Flame                  Conjuration/Fire              2
    c - Conjure Flame                Conjuration/Fire              3
    d - Inner Flame                  Hexes/Fire                    3
    e - Sticky Flame                 Conjuration/Fire              4
    f - Fireball                     Conjuration/Fire              5
Comestibles
 f - 6 bread rations
 u - 6 fruits
 E - 2 meat rations
 P - a royal jelly
 T - 8 slices of pizza
 V - a beef jerky


   Skills:
 - Level 4.2 Fighting
 - Level 7.6(11.3) Short Blades
 - Level 10.4(11.0) Long Blades
 - Level 3.3 Slings
 - Level 5.0 Armour
 - Level 5.9 Dodging
 - Level 10.2 Shields
 + Level 3.7 Charms
 - Level 7.6 Air Magic
 - Level 5.0 Invocations


You have 6 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Shock                 Conj/Air       #...         38%         1    ##.....
b - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ##....       28%         2    ###....
c - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ##......     28%         2    ###....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (11/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5            Lair (1/6) D:11
    Orc (0/2) D:9         

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are small and have problems with some larger weapons.
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.


Message History

Returning to the game...
Unknown command.
(D) Dungeon        (T) Temple         (L) Lair           (O) Orcish Mines   
Where to? (Enter - Lair:1, ? - help)
You see here a giant spiked club.
There is a staircase to the Lair here.
You climb downwards. Welcome to the Lair of Beasts!
Found a bread ration.
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
You climb upwards. Welcome back to the Dungeon!
There is a staircase to the Lair here.
You climb downwards. Welcome to the Lair of Beasts!
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
f - 6 bread rations (gained 1)
A crocodile comes into view.
A crocodile is nearby!
Save game and exit?
Welcome back, Kaym the Halfling Fighter.
Okawaru says: Bring me glory in combat!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.

   ......
    ....t#
     .....
      ...#
       ..###
       #...
       #..#
 ###+###.@##
 #.........#
 #.........#
#.........<#
##.........+
 #...........
 #..........##
 #####.##+P..#


You can see a crocodile.

Vanquished Creatures
  4 hill giants
  An ugly thing (D:11)
  A gargoyle (D:11)
  A komodo dragon (D:11)
  A two-headed ogre (D:10)
  A wyvern (D:9)
  7 yaks (D:11)
  A shadow (D:9)
  3 hippogriffs
  Edmund (D:2)
  Menkaure (D:4)
  3 water moccasins
  7 orc warriors
  6 ice beasts
  4 sky beasts
  3 phantoms
  3 necrophages
  A swamp drake (D:11)
  2 black bears
  5 centaurs
  8 ogres
  3 crocodiles
  3 big kobolds
  5 giant frogs
  2 wyvern zombies
  25 killer bees
  14 wights
  2 howler monkeys
  A crimson imp (D:8)
  2 jellies
  2 giant frog skeletons
  10 orc priests
  2 centaur skeletons
  6 hounds
  Ijyb (D:3)
  Jessica (D:2)
  4 iguanas
  12 orc wizards
  3 worker ants
  A howler monkey zombie (D:10)
  A worker ant zombie (D:6)
  Robin (D:1)
  5 gnolls
  10 adders
  2 howler monkey skeletons
  A river rat (D:3)
  4 shadow imps
  An ooze (D:2)
  2 adder zombies
  2 adder skeletons
  A worm (D:4)
  13 giant geckos
  41 orcs
  5 giant cockroaches
  19 goblins
  12 hobgoblins
  18 jackals
  8 quokkas
  4 ball pythons
  4 bats
  A giant gecko skeleton (D:5)
  A giant gecko zombie (D:7)
  4 giant newts
  18 kobolds
  8 rats
349 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An orc wizard (D:8)
1 creature vanquished.

Grand Total: 350 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Kaym the Halfling Fighter began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 15/15 MP: 1/1
   127 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Short Blades
   242 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 20/20 MP: 2/2
   358 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/25 MP: 3/3
   857 | D:2      | Noticed Robin
   870 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Short Blades
  1135 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Fighting
  1209 | D:1      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/31 MP: 4/4
  1270 | D:1      | Killed Robin
  2101 | D:2      | Noticed Jessica
  2109 | D:2      | Killed Jessica
  2109 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Short Blades
  2109 | D:2      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 36/36 MP: 5/5
  2940 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Armour
  3117 | D:3      | Noticed Ijyb
  3127 | D:3      | Killed Ijyb
  3127 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Short Blades
  3127 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 42/42 MP: 6/6
  3908 | D:4      | Noticed Edmund
  3950 | D:3      | HP: 2/43 [Edmund/dire flail of holy wrath (2)]
  4274 | D:2      | Killed Edmund
  4274 | D:2      | Reached skill level 7 in Short Blades
  4274 | D:2      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 20/47 MP: 7/7
  4624 | D:4      | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
  4702 | D:4      | Noticed Menkaure
  4710 | D:4      | Killed Menkaure
  5010 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  5287 | D:4      | Reached skill level 2 in Dodging
  5542 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  5547 | D:5      | Found Gizyrch's Distillery.
  5677 | D:5      | You fall through a shaft for 2 floors!
  5815 | D:7      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 45/54 MP: 8/8
  5817 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Long Blades
  5824 | D:7      | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging
  5949 | D:7      | Reached skill level 2 in Long Blades
  6168 | D:7      | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging
  6213 | D:7      | Reached skill level 3 in Long Blades
  6528 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  6893 | D:6      | Reached skill level 4 in Long Blades
  7222 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 51/58 MP: 9/9
  7378 | D:5      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  7449 | D:5      | Reached skill level 4 in Shields
  7591 | D:5      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  7765 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Long Blades
  8002 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  8014 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  8179 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Warmaster Okawaru
  8275 | D:5      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  8305 | D:5      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  8646 | D:5      | Identified a scroll of acquirement
  8966 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
  9026 | D:6      | Reached skill level 6 in Long Blades
  9045 | D:6      | Reached * piety under Okawaru
  9494 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
  9595 | D:7      | Reached skill level 7 in Long Blades
  9832 | D:7      | Reached skill level 2 in Invocations
 10659 | D:8      | Reached skill level 3 in Invocations
 10672 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 63/64 MP: 12/12
 10740 | D:8      | Reached ** piety under Okawaru
 10748 | D:8      | Reached skill level 4 in Invocations
 10756 | D:8      | Reached skill level 8 in Long Blades
 11032 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 11268 | D:8      | Learned a level 1 spell: Shock
 11351 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
 11462 | D:8      | Reached skill level 2 in Air Magic
 11739 | D:8      | Reached skill level 3 in Air Magic
 12096 | D:9      | You fall through a shaft for 2 floors!
 12096 | D:11     | Noticed a gargoyle
 12111 | D:11     | Killed a gargoyle
 12111 | D:11     | Reached *** piety under Okawaru
 12111 | D:11     | Reached skill level 6 in Shields
 12111 | D:11     | Reached skill level 4 in Air Magic
 12159 | D:11     | Reached skill level 5 in Air Magic
 12529 | D:11     | Noticed a hill giant
 12546 | D:11     | Killed a hill giant
 12546 | D:11     | Reached skill level 7 in Shields
 12546 | D:11     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 46/69 MP: 14/14
 12659 | D:11     | Noticed a hill giant
 12671 | D:11     | Killed a hill giant
 12671 | D:11     | Reached **** piety under Okawaru
 12671 | D:11     | Reached skill level 6 in Air Magic
 12774 | D:11     | Reached skill level 8 in Shields
 12788 | D:11     | Reached skill level 7 in Air Magic
 13616 | D:11     | Reached skill level 9 in Long Blades
 13945 | D:11     | Noticed a purple ugly thing
 13972 | D:11     | Killed a purple ugly thing
 14168 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 14642 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 14732 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Long Blades
 15101 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 15291 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 15291 | D:10     | Reached skill level 9 in Shields
 15545 | D:10     | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
 15692 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 15705 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 15705 | D:10     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 31/72 MP: 15/15
 16401 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Shields
 16804 | D:10     | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
 16807 | D:10     | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness
 16902 | D:10     | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 17167 | D:9      | Reached ***** piety under Okawaru
 17183 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Slings
 17244 | D:9      | Reached skill level 2 in Charms
 17312 | D:9      | Reached skill level 2 in Slings
 17782 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 18194 | D:9      | Reached skill level 3 in Slings
 18350 | D:9      | Reached skill level 3 in Charms
 18817 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 |
---------------+-------------------------------------+-----
Short Blades   |  3     4  5  6  7                   |  7.6
Fighting       |        3           4                |  4.2
Armour         |              4     5                |  5.0
Dodging        |                    2  5             |  5.9
Long Blades    |                       4  7  8 10    | 10.4
Shields        |                          5  7  9 10 | 10.2
Invocations    |                          3  5       |  5.0
Air Magic      |                             5  7    |  7.6
Charms         |                                   3 |  3.7
Slings         |                                   3 |  3.3

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Rapier            |    97 |   226 |    72 |       ||   395
       Short sword       |       |    32 |       |       ||    32
       Long sword        |       |       |   537 |  1153 ||  1690
       Falchion          |       |       |    18 |       ||    18
       Dagger            |       |       |       |    57 ||    57
       Scimitar          |       |       |       |   138 ||   138
 Fire: Hunting sling     |       |       |    36 |     3 ||    39
 Cast: Shock             |       |       |       |     4 ||     4
Invok: Heroism           |       |       |     2 |    16 ||    18
  Use: Scroll            |     6 |     6 |    14 |     4 ||    30
       Potion            |       |     1 |       |     1 ||     2
 Stab: Distracted        |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
       Invisible         |       |       |       |     5 ||     5
       Confused          |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     1 |    10 |    11 |    21 ||    43
       Bread ration      |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3
       Meat ration       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Armor: Scale mail        |    42 |    69 |   118 |       ||   229
       Ring mail         |       |       |    36 |   226 ||   262
Dodge: Dodged            |    33 |    85 |   245 |   563 ||   926
Block: Shield            |    45 |   120 |   255 |   637 ||  1057
twelwe wrote:It's like Blink, but you end up drowning.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 20:21

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

jwoodward48ss wrote:HP isn't everything...


Right, HP + speed is everything. You cannot die on D1 as Tr/Og/Ce/DD/HO/Mi/Dg/Dr/Gh/Sp/Fe as melee background unless you literally have no room to run to.

Edit. I wouldn't train Charms. Get more Fighting/LBl first IMHO. Also enchant aux armour.

Blades Runner

Posts: 536

Joined: Friday, 1st April 2016, 18:15

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 20:34

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

But I don't die on D:1. I die in Lair/Orc/early Vaults.
twelwe wrote:It's like Blink, but you end up drowning.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 20:36

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

HP/speed difference between species becomes even more important as game progresses.

Blades Runner

Posts: 536

Joined: Friday, 1st April 2016, 18:15

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 20:42

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

Okay. Which fighter combo that is not a minotaur or a berserker would you recommend?

(I've already won a berserker, and don't feel like doing it again.)

Also, I died to a tarantella on Lair:2. Stupid floordrops, not giving me any potions of curing. And then I fumble my wand and zap the fungus next to me instead.

Fuck. That was one lucky floordrop wasted. I'm now dead.
twelwe wrote:It's like Blink, but you end up drowning.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 20:45

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

Formicid is a good race for fighter background since you don't need to think about "will I use 2handed weapon or a shield" and you can often fight 1 on 1 (where shield is optimal) due to digging ability.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1694

Joined: Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 20:34

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 20:55

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

Formicid is a good fighter race, but all it takes is one screw up to kill you, since you can't teleport. But still, if you manage situations well they are damn powerful. Being able to make a killhole pretty much whenever you want is also really, really nice.

But, if you just want to play a 'regular' fighter, and not a minotaur, I'd recommend a HoFi. Good apts, no weird gimmicks, but I hope you like using axes (you don't have to of course, but it's hard to pass up a +3 apt)

Snake Sneak

Posts: 103

Joined: Wednesday, 10th December 2014, 18:51

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 21:05

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

Dith is a good god for both KoFi and HaFi and isn't entirely because it (god) makes stabbing easy (although that is a plus) but because it gives you time to regain HP while hiding from monsters and not attracting a lot of monsters attention in general (again to Sandman's point about the HP).

Dith passive EV also massively helps already good EV characters. Shadow form is closest to the strongest god ability in the game.

And finally I recommend just translocating runes since Ha is pretty good at translocation and apport is fairly common (ie don't bother killing everything particularly with Dith). With Dith you can just go Shadow Form and steal the rune. This is important because the early runes are really tough for Ha. It is better to quickly get a lair branch rune (apport shadow form) so you can start clearing the path in Vaults which IMO is easier than most of the lair branch endings.
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Blades Runner

Posts: 568

Joined: Wednesday, 5th March 2014, 03:52

Post Monday, 22nd August 2016, 21:20

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

I always find kobold way easier than halfling, (first win was kobold berserker.) Good fighting attributes help with negative hit points, yer magic skills are vastly better, and gourmand makes the game far less annoying (if only slightly easier.)

Slime Squisher

Posts: 387

Joined: Monday, 15th August 2011, 16:31

Location: Frankfurt

Post Wednesday, 24th August 2016, 15:49

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

Sandman25 wrote:HP/speed difference between species becomes even more important as game progresses.


HP is meaningful only in relation to average damage received, in which defence is a factor. A character with 1000HP that receives avg 100 damage per 10 aut can stay in combat on average for ten turns, a character with 20HP that receives only 1 damage on avg can stay in combat for 20 turns. That's why HP difference matters most in the beginning of the game and less as the game progresses, unless you're habitually thinking "my character is squishy, therefore I should invest less in defence than I would with a beefy melee char".

Ha have an EV bonus and decent aptitudes in armour and dodging. And short blades are quite good in early game. A HaFi probably isn't the easiest start ever, but it's not bad at all, either.
"... while we / Unburden'd crawl toward death." -- King Lear I,1

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Barkeep

Posts: 3890

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 23:25

Location: USA

Post Thursday, 25th August 2016, 19:15

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

Utis wrote:HP is meaningful only in relation to average damage received, in which defence is a factor. A character with 1000HP that receives avg 100 damage per 10 aut can stay in combat on average for ten turns, a character with 20HP that receives only 1 damage on avg can stay in combat for 20 turns. That's why HP difference matters most in the beginning of the game and less as the game progresses, unless you're habitually thinking "my character is squishy, therefore I should invest less in defence than I would with a beefy melee char".


Except that 1.) your theoretical cases don't actually happen, 2.) particularly large damage rolls, rather than "average damage over time," are what tends to kill players.

In actual games of Crawl that people actually play, damage is "spikey" and while AC/EV/SH help a lot with average damage taken over the course of a battle, and are certainly values you want to maximize, you will still get the occasional damage spike even with very high defensive values. Since you only need to hit 0 or less HP once for the game to be lost, high HP is really good right up to and including the orb ascension.

While "avg damage intake" matters, it is usually the particularly bad hits that fall outside one or two standard deviations that tend to kill players. High HP really helps there.

Ha have an EV bonus and decent aptitudes in armour and dodging. And short blades are quite good in early game. A HaFi probably isn't the easiest start ever, but it's not bad at all, either.


Agreed.

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Slime Squisher

Posts: 387

Joined: Monday, 15th August 2011, 16:31

Location: Frankfurt

Post Thursday, 25th August 2016, 22:18

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

Well, yes, I created arbitrary examples in order to illustrate what I'm talking about. Halfway realistic numbers would be much closer to each other. But between two hypothetical, though realistic looking characters with the same "avg damage intake" to HP ratio but different HP, those spikes you're talking about would also whittle down the higher HP faster. I don't generally see Ogres celebrated as one of the strongest species, despite their high HP and good offensive aptitudes. And Gargoyles, another race that offsets an HP malus with a defence bonus, don't seem to be generally considered as particularily frail.

Look, I didn't mean to say that high HP is bad ... There's also things like attacks that bypass defences. Or being so low on HP that one-shotting becomes a danger. On the other hand more HP and worse defence, all else being equal, means more resting and more piety decay. Between that and numerous other things that influence gameplay, one has to make a judgment call.
"... while we / Unburden'd crawl toward death." -- King Lear I,1

Barkeep

Posts: 3890

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Location: USA

Post Thursday, 25th August 2016, 22:54

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

Well, in general, reasonably good defenses and good HP are not mutually exclusive things, and clearly you want both when you can get them. Of course there are some species that tend to suffer in one area or both, but that is due to the peculiarities of the species.

HP is meaningful only in relation to average damage received, in which defence is a factor.


I responded the way I did because I honestly do not believe the sentence quoted above is a great way to think about survivability in Crawl.

Higher defenses will lower the average damage you receive, but they also make large damage spikes less likely (albeit without eliminating them). More 5ing is annoying and it does incur a bit more piety decay, however dying is even more annoying (and, incidentally, drains all your piety).

EDIT:
To put it another way: Outside of the early game, unless I am drunk/tired or something, when I die it is usually not because I received an average amount of damage from an enemy. It is because an enemy did way more damage than I had anticipated, which nearly always means "more damage than average." (Of course, the listed killing blow in the morgue file may be 5 damage from an adjacent orc or whatever, but right before that I got walloped for a lot of damage from something else.) Higher AC/EV/SH make the big damage spikes a lot less likely, which definitely translates into better overall survivability and longevity in battle before having to retreat, and into a stronger character overall. But Crawl is long (probably too long) and you are still going to see some unusual damage spikes even with great defenses. Some attacks late in the game just have such a high max damage roll (even ignoring the fact that some of these high-max damage attacks also bypass some of your defensive attributes...)
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Thursday, 25th August 2016, 23:29

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

general advice would be to take advantage of everything you find on dungeon floors,
recently I did find +12 broad axe on D:9 with HaHu, so I immediately switched to axes, also was wearing the heaviest available armour with heavy armour and dodging investment (and str on lvl-ups)
too bad game was offline
  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17.1 (console) character file.

1614611 zod the Impregnable (level 27, 207/207 HPs)
             Began as a Halfling Hunter on Aug 17, 2016.
             Was a High Priest of Okawaru.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes!
             
             The game lasted 03:42:02 (87077 turns).

zod the Impregnable (Halfling Hunter)              Turns: 87077, Time: 03:42:02

Health: 207/207    AC: 54    Str: 20      XL:     27
Magic:  33/33      EV: 30    Int: 17 (18) God:    Okawaru [*****.]
Gold:   3898       SH:  0    Dex: 26      Spells: 6 memorised, 3 levels left

rFire  + + +     SeeInvis .     h - +9 broad axe (vamp)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  +     s - +9 armour of the Dragon King {rPois rF+ rC+ MR+}
rNeg   . . .     SustAt   .     (shield currently unavailable)
rPois  +         Gourm    .     d - +2 helmet {Int+3}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     g - +2 cloak {MR+}
rCorr  .         Warding  .     v - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     C - +2 pair of boots
MR     +++++                    b - amulet "Gatimnic" {Clar rElec}
Stlth  ..........               x - ring "Ruopuzy" {rF+ EV+3 Dex+6 Stlth+}
                                L - ring of the Present {rF+ MR+ AC+3}

@: brilliant, very slightly contaminated, hasted, very quick, almost entirely
resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: low mp 1, mutation resistance 1, slow regeneration 1, subdued magic 1
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion
0: Orb of Zot
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, silver


You escaped.
You worshipped Okawaru.
Okawaru was extremely pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and saw 54 of its levels.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You also visited: Trove and Bailey.

You collected 9362 gold pieces.
You spent 5464 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 h - a +9 vampiric broad axe (weapon)
 N - the +11 hand axe "Zagum" {holy, rF+ Str+5}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 15 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been blessed by the Shining One to cause great damage to the undead
   and demons.
   
   It affects your strength (+5).
   It protects you from fire.
 R - the +11 hunting sling of Armageddon {flame, rElec Str+2}
   (You took it off an ironheart preserver on level 2 of the Vaults)   
   
   It causes projectiles fired from it to burn those they strike, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents.
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It insulates you from electricity.
 S - the +12 broad axe of the Special Wishes {freeze, Str+5}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   
   It affects your strength (+5).
Missiles
 Q - 35 tomahawks of returning (quivered)
Armour
 a - a +2 cloak of poison resistance
 d - a +2 helmet of intelligence (worn)
 g - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 i - a +1 cloak of invisibility
 o - the +0 pair of boots of Vanity {rElec rPois MR+}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 s - the +9 armour of the Dragon King (worn) {rPois rF+ rC+ MR+}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Vaults)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 v - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 C - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
Jewellery
 b - the amulet "Gatimnic" (around neck) {Clar rElec}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 7 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [amulet of clarity]
   
   It provides mental clarity.
   It insulates you from electricity.
 q - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 u - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 x - the ring "Ruopuzy" (right hand) {rF+ EV+3 Dex+6 Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Swamp)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   
   It affects your evasion (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (+6).
   It protects you from fire.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 A - the amulet of the Forsaken Blessings {+Rage +Fly rElec MR- MP+9}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Realm of Zot)   
   
   [amulet of rage]
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
   It lets you fly.
   It lets you go berserk.
 L - the ring of the Present (left hand) {rF+ MR+ AC+3}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   
   [ring of protection]
   
   It affects your AC (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
Wands
 c - a wand of digging (5)
 y - a wand of hasting (5)
 z - a wand of teleportation (3)
 F - a wand of heal wounds (7)
 I - a wand of disintegration (9)
 T - a wand of hasting (4)
 Y - a wand of teleportation (0)
 Z - a wand of hasting (5)
Scrolls
 m - 4 scrolls of fear
 n - 26 scrolls of remove curse
 r - 7 scrolls of immolation
 J - 2 scrolls of holy word
 M - 3 scrolls of identify
 O - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
Potions
 j - 5 potions of resistance
 G - 3 potions of cancellation
 H - a potion of magic
 W - 13 potions of curing
 X - 4 potions of berserk rage
Miscellaneous
 e - a fan of gales
 E - a disc of storms
 K - a lamp of fire
 V - a phial of floods
Comestibles
 f - 4 bread rations
 t - 5 meat rations


   Skills:
 + Level 22.3 Fighting
   Level 4.4 Short Blades
 - Level 18.5 Axes
   Level 6.3 Staves
 - Level 8.3(8.8) Slings
 - Level 3.2(5.2) Throwing
 + Level 25.8 Armour
 + Level 25.6 Dodging
 - Level 1.6 Stealth
 - Level 1.0 Earth Magic
 - Level 7.0 Invocations
 + Level 19.5 Evocations


You had 3 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #.........   78%         3    ####...
b - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       #.......     78%         3    ####...
c - Song of Slaying       Chrm           #.......     58%         2    ###....
d - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      #.......     52%         2    ###....
e - Phase Shift           Tloc           #.........   99%         5    ######.
f - Controlled Blink      Tloc           N/A          100%        8    #######


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:7            Lair (8/8) D:10
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:6        Snake (4/4) Lair:4        Slime (0/6) Lair:6
    Orc (4/4) D:12            Elf (3/3) Orc:4        Vaults (5/5) D:14
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:3     Depths (5/5) D:15            Zot (5/5) Depths:5

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Lugonu

Shops:
D:7 =   Orc:4 ([[[   Elf:1 *   Vaults:3 [   Vaults:4 !   Vaults:5 !!?[[[
Depths:5 *=!

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Pandemonium: Depths:3 Depths:4
Ziggurat: Depths:3

Annotations:
Swamp:3 exclusion: 2 oklob plants
Elf:1 Roxanne
Elf:2 5 runed doors
Elf:3 1 exclusion
Depths:3 1 exclusion, Norris
Zot:2 1 exclusion
Zot:3 1 exclusion
Zot:4 1 exclusion


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are small and have problems with some larger weapons.
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.
Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP).
You regenerate slowly when monsters are visible.
Your spells are a little easier to cast, but a little less powerful.


Message History

Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
You feel yourself speed up.
You are very lightly contaminated with residual magic.
This wand has 5 charges left.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You feel clever all of a sudden.
Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
You have escaped!

......#.#               #.# #.#
......#.#               #.# #.#
..)...#.# .?PPP?P?.?PPP?#.# #.#
......#.# PPPP.P.PPPPPPP#.# #.#
#######.# .PPPP??P.PP.P.#.# #.#
      #.#  PP...PPP.?P?P#.# #.###
      #.#  ??P.PPPPP.PP?#.# #....
      #.#  ?...P.PPP?P? #.# #####
      #.#################.#
      #...................#
      #.........@.........#
      ##.................##  ####
       ###################   #...
         ?PPP??PPPPP?P?      #...
         ?PPPPPPPP?PP?..     #...
        #PPPP?PPPPP?P.??#    #...
        #?.PP??PPPPPPPP.     #.#.
         PP   PPP.?. PP?    ##.#+
                            #....
                            #....
                            #....


There were no monsters in sight!
~online scoring~

Pig's in zen
Pig is nude
Unashamed

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Post Thursday, 25th August 2016, 23:33

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

damn frodo got BUFF

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Post Friday, 26th August 2016, 04:18

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

HaFi is an above average combo. You're better off going long blades and picking up a good branded dagger for early dungeon/maybe lair if it shows up. If you train long blades, your short blades will stay about 1 level behind your lb skill anyway and at some point you're going to want to use a long blade anyway.

You want to take a god that's going to take some of the edge off of the low hp and lack of neat tricks. Trog is an excellent choice. Other fine choices are the ally gods, including Fedhas, Yredelemnul, Hepliaklqana, and Nemelex. Makhleb and Kiku are also reasonable choices, the latter only if you know what you're doing though. I don't really recommend Okawaru for this combo unless you have a very early altar. As always, altar placement should be a major consideration in which god to choose because d:1/2 Yred or Nemelex is going to be a lot better than d:4/5 Trog or Fedhas. Trog, Fedhas, Yred, Hep, and Nem should be be regarded as "take on sight" gods for this combo and many like it.
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Post Friday, 26th August 2016, 07:19

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

and into wrote:
HP is meaningful only in relation to average damage received, in which defence is a factor.


I responded the way I did because I honestly do not believe the sentence quoted above is a great way to think about survivability in Crawl.
[Explanation]


I see. With your explanation, I think we're essentially on the same page, then. I was thinking more of comparison of species, where I feel that the relative impact of an HP malus becomes less pronounced as the game progresses. Otherwise, 'avg damage intake to HP ratio' is really just the baseline for reasoning. (It is IMO the relevant baseline, though. The context in this threat was that Ha are bad because of their HP penalty, which is only half of the story.) If either of the contrived chars in my example arrived at its avg damage intake by evading a high percentage of high damage attacks, that would be quite unacceptable, because that character is dead in the long run. What actual numbers matter and what spikes are acceptable is, like I said, a judgement call that cannot be deduced from a calculation alone. And in the particular judgement call at hand, you and me happen to agree. :)
Last edited by Utis on Friday, 26th August 2016, 08:04, edited 1 time in total.
"... while we / Unburden'd crawl toward death." -- King Lear I,1

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Post Friday, 26th August 2016, 07:38

Re: HaFi (SB) - General Advice

It should be mentioned, though, that the main issue with Ha is the potential for an annoying middle game: There's a good risk that you spend most of your time in Vaults luring and resting, because you're still running around with a crappy scimitar.
"... while we / Unburden'd crawl toward death." -- King Lear I,1

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