Ponderous and boots of running?

[arandomperson12]

Would you use a +10 ponderous plate mail instead of a +4 plate mail of rF, if you had boots of running?

[vergil]

I would've used the second one anyways because of rF

[Blomdor]

It would take more than six AC to make me seriously consider wearing something ponderous, boots of running or no. That's before taking resistances into account. Heck, you can spend a few scrolls of enchantment on the plate of rF and have a pretty nice suit of armor for most of the game.

[goodcoolguy]

There are parts of the game where I would take the +6ac and the ponderousness. 6 ac is a lot. I would not want to do vaults 5 or zot with ponderous though.

[tabstorm]

Would you use a +10 ponderous plate mail

yes
lol at the idea that .1 move is relevant at all past D:8 or so

[le_nerd]

I'd agree for past lair but lair has many opportunities to participate in the fun activity called fighting. Around Death yak packs/Hydras ponderousness is deadly.

[bcadren]

I would never wear either of those. #RingMailforLIFE

[dowan]

Would you use a +10 ponderous plate mail

yes
lol at the idea that .1 move is relevant at all past D:8 or so

So... boots of running aren't a good item after D8 then?

Of course, I find myself happy to be able to run from normal speed monsters without getting hit throughout most of the game, even past D8 so I disagree with that statement. I enjoy being able to run from deep troll packs, draconian packs, out of hand convoker situations in vaults, etc. Being able to keep pace with monsters is a lot better than them gaining on your slowly. Being able to slowly make distance is even better.

When did move speed stop being the greatest thing ever? Last I heard, this was a game where positioning was the most important element, and the speed to re-position being very important. Now ponderous isn't a bad thing anymore? Who the hell is in charge of the metagame around here, you're dropping the ball!

[Sandman25]

I guess people have in mind species like HO/Mi/DD when talking about speed penalty being irrelevant. I doubt it is a good idea to use ponderous as HaHu or KoFi.

[Sprucery]

I guess the meme "you can't die to a speed 10 monster" needs an update...

[dowan]

So... how long until Chei is the best god

[and into]

If you have plenty of good escape options, ponderous for a big AC boost can be a very reasonable trade. In this case I would probably prefer faster-than-normal movement (from running) and rF over 6 AC, but it would depend on the character/situation.

[tabstorm]

Would you use a +10 ponderous plate mail

yes
lol at the idea that .1 move is relevant at all past D:8 or so

So... boots of running aren't a good item after D8 then?

Of course, I find myself happy to be able to run from normal speed monsters without getting hit throughout most of the game, even past D8 so I disagree with that statement. I enjoy being able to run from deep troll packs, draconian packs, out of hand convoker situations in vaults, etc. Being able to keep pace with monsters is a lot better than them gaining on your slowly. Being able to slowly make distance is even better.

When did move speed stop being the greatest thing ever? Last I heard, this was a game where positioning was the most important element, and the speed to re-position being very important. Now ponderous isn't a bad thing anymore? Who the hell is in charge of the metagame around here, you're dropping the ball!

They are an overrated item. +2 boots of running will be better than most boots you will find on the ground, but I would definitely wear an artefact pair of boots with the right properties and a good enough enchant over +2 running. There have been so many new fast enemies added to the game over the years that can theoretically kill you.

If you need to run from things that aren't uniques or huge packs past early D/L you are just building a bad character or a mage. When you get into a movespeed bonus of 0.2, 0.3, etc. you gain a speed bonus over a larger class of potentially dangerous enemies in early D and Lair in particular. There are a fair number of speed 12-15 enemies out there. I think there are only 3 speed 11 monsters: Sphinxes, ugly things, and very ugly things. Once you finish lair none of these will be a threat at the depth you can expect to meet them. Other speed 10 monsters that can actually kill you all have ranged attacks so you shouldn't expect to be able to run across the level from them to the upstair if things go sour without taking several hits or letting them create (potentially fast) summons. You may as well just teleport.

Looking at the examples you cited, Deep Troll packs will get hasted rather quickly by shamans, many Draconians cast haste, convokers and convokers/sentinels should be targets of a para wand, and so on. If you get an out-of-hand convoker situation, you probably should just teleport the turn you see a pack of monsters you might not be able to kill spawn, rather than finding out the hard way and trying to run hundreds of tiles across the map to the upstair hoping that some random enemy dosen't walk by and snipe you.

Regarding 0.1 move to reposition: if this is the difference between life and death for you, your mistakes were probably on a much larger scale than wearing an item that gives 0.1 to move speed. I use Ponderous items all the time and its effects past D/L are truly negligible.

[dowan]

Hey, that's fine and pretty logical, it just goes completely against the "common tavern wisdom" that you usually see.

Of course, teleportation remains an option if running away isn't turning out well, when I say out of hand situation I mean too many enemies/dangerous combination, not I'm at 10 HP. Usually with big enemy packs you can make that judgement before you even engage.

I do have to remember to try to use para wands on convokers, I used to carry curare just for them, but that doesn't work anymore...

[Sandman25]

Regarding 0.1 move to reposition: if this is the difference between life and death for you, your mistakes were probably on a much larger scale than wearing an item that gives 0.1 to move speed.

The same can be said about using +6/-6 ring of protection, +6/-6 ring of slaying, +6/-6 ring of evasion etc. but it does not mean those items are not amazing/awful.