Holy pan
Posted: Sunday, 7th August 2016, 01:51Holypan is way less dangerous than most levels of Pan though.
(split from GDD)
(split from GDD)
Arrhythmia wrote:Holypan is way less dangerous than most levels of Pan though.
But... no it isn't...
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Posted: Sunday, 7th August 2016, 01:51Re: Can we brainstorm a way to shorten pandemonium?
Posted: Tuesday, 9th August 2016, 15:32But... no it isn't...
Re: Can we brainstorm a way to shorten pandemonium?
Posted: Tuesday, 9th August 2016, 15:43dowan wrote:Arrhythmia wrote:Holypan is way less dangerous than most levels of Pan though.
But... no it isn't...
Yes, it is!
Re: Can we brainstorm a way to shorten pandemonium?
Posted: Tuesday, 9th August 2016, 15:48Not sure why you are arguing, it depends on character (ignoring even species here).
Re: Can we brainstorm a way to shorten pandemonium?
Posted: Tuesday, 9th August 2016, 15:51TSO can't help you here...
undead beware...
undead beware...
Re: Can we brainstorm a way to shorten pandemonium?
Posted: Tuesday, 9th August 2016, 16:54TSO makes extended super easy, except holy pan. HW brand does nothing there, unlike the rest of extended. There are lots of high HP smiting angels, and if you're undead you're really in trouble thanks to all the HW weapons. The rune is also guarded by a monster far more dangerous than the vast majority of the random pan lords who guard the randomly placed demonic runes.
This is why I consider holy pan much harder than any random pan level. Note when I do extended I'm either following TSO, or undead and following someone else, and either situation only makes the holy pan situation worse. But angels are tougher than most demons for any character.
This is why I consider holy pan much harder than any random pan level. Note when I do extended I'm either following TSO, or undead and following someone else, and either situation only makes the holy pan situation worse. But angels are tougher than most demons for any character.
Re: Can we brainstorm a way to shorten pandemonium?
Posted: Tuesday, 9th August 2016, 17:26TSO makes you immune to Ophan holy flames and pearl dragon breath though.
Re: Can we brainstorm a way to shorten pandemonium?
Posted: Tuesday, 9th August 2016, 17:52When I get to Holypan as a TSO follower I just skip it ASAP because it doesn't make sense for me to butcher the followers of my god even if they don't accept me.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Tuesday, 9th August 2016, 22:37Why does holy pan even exist?
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Tuesday, 9th August 2016, 22:44Holypan is awesome, even as an avid ds/mu player I always like it when I find it, its like a breath of fresh air amidst the tedium and amalgam of sameness which ecompasses the concept of pan.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Tuesday, 9th August 2016, 23:38The problem with Holy Pan is that it is an incredibly densely populated collection of all the most annoying monsters that still exist in the game. The only relatively recent monster collections that were unambiguously more annoying were the Forest branch and pre-nerf doom hounds. Even if it is easy to clear Holy Pan, it probably won't be much fun because there are a billion monsters in it that are specifically designed to be as obnoxious as possible while you're getting rid of them, and they respawn almost as fast as you can kill them.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Tuesday, 9th August 2016, 23:41Ophans are kind of annoying because you have to confirm entering their clouds every damn time, but others? Cherubs and apises are actually pretty plain, angels are a good enemy, just fast melee with a dash of self-heal, daevas are okay, pearl dragons are okay. I mean, I'd agree with you back when shedu and phoenixes existed (whyyy), but they don't exist anymore.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Tuesday, 9th August 2016, 23:45jwoodward48ss wrote:Why does holy pan even exist?
Because it's cool and also a source of !cMut, good large shields and decently enchanted holy weapons.
Re: Can we brainstorm a way to shorten pandemonium?
Posted: Wednesday, 10th August 2016, 08:03dowan wrote:TSO makes extended super easy, except holy pan. HW brand does nothing there, unlike the rest of extended. There are lots of high HP smiting angels, and if you're undead you're really in trouble thanks to all the HW weapons. The rune is also guarded by a monster far more dangerous than the vast majority of the random pan lords who guard the randomly placed demonic runes.
This is why I consider holy pan much harder than any random pan level. Note when I do extended I'm either following TSO, or undead and following someone else, and either situation only makes the holy pan situation worse. But angels are tougher than most demons for any character.
Usually when I do Pan, I'm neither following TSO nor undead.
I suppose we all learned a valuable lesson about biases here today.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Wednesday, 10th August 2016, 10:07Arrhythmia wrote:I suppose we all learned a valuable lesson about biases here today.
Tsk tsk...
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Wednesday, 10th August 2016, 13:28Sar wrote:Ophans are kind of annoying because you have to confirm entering their clouds every damn time, but others? Cherubs and apises are actually pretty plain, angels are a good enemy, just fast melee with a dash of self-heal, daevas are okay, pearl dragons are okay. I mean, I'd agree with you back when shedu and phoenixes existed (whyyy), but they don't exist anymore.
Hmm, I guess it's been a while since I've been to holy pan then, because shedu and phoenixes were there last time I went. Well I suppose I'll have to wait till I experience the current version of Holy Pan to comment on it's relative difficulty.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Wednesday, 10th August 2016, 14:07Holy pan is nice because of the guaranteed rune with a fixed location. The enemy density is quite high so it can be a bit tricky. Daevas can be annoying if the have large shields.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Wednesday, 10th August 2016, 14:31I would like it if pearl dragons were turned into phoenices with exactly the same stats and mechanics.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Wednesday, 10th August 2016, 20:38Holy pan is the only instantly recognizable guaranteed demonic rune vault, so I usually clear it when doing extended, even as undead. And summon hollies is annoying.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Wednesday, 10th August 2016, 21:58dowan wrote:relative difficulty
Shedu and phoenixes weren't difficult, they were kind of annoying. I dunno how the spawns work, but if some of their spawns were replaced by angels and daevas, that's more of an increase in difficulty.
Silver stars though, those things were evil. I miss them.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Wednesday, 10th August 2016, 22:01stickyfingers wrote:Holy pan is the only instantly recognizable guaranteed demonic rune vault, so I usually clear it when doing extended, even as undead. And summon hollies is annoying.
Is it? I'm just asking, because, when I got it, I had already got the rune. if you don't have the rune, it's guaranteed to spawn in Holyp?
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Thursday, 11th August 2016, 00:11Shtopit wrote:stickyfingers wrote:Holy pan is the only instantly recognizable guaranteed demonic rune vault, so I usually clear it when doing extended, even as undead. And summon hollies is annoying.
Is it? I'm just asking, because, when I got it, I had already got the rune. if you don't have the rune, it's guaranteed to spawn in Holyp?
Yes.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Thursday, 11th August 2016, 02:13stickyfingers wrote:And summon hollies is annoying.
That sounds like a Fedhas ability.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Thursday, 11th August 2016, 14:39Well, Fedhas is annoying, so everything adds up 
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Thursday, 11th August 2016, 15:06Sar wrote:angels are a good enemy, just fast melee with a dash of self-heal, daevas are okay,
And the AC and the large shield! It takes a ridiculously long time for my quick blade users to kill them.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Thursday, 11th August 2016, 15:54Well, a bad character might have trouble killing strong enemies, though monster SH is possibly a bit too good.
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Friday, 12th August 2016, 14:46Holy Pan is one of the reasons I like doing Hell before pan. Daevas with their SH and their Smiting are Greater Mummy tier threats...that cannot be silenced and are very very swingy to melee; nearly impossible to hit with ranged weapons (especially now that penetration is gone; ignoring monster SH was one of the bonuses of that brand). But with the Staff of Dispater...BAMF! 2 Shots, works everytime all the time.
That said; I do think Holy Pan is pretty badly designed still; in the same way that old tomb was. What's actually deadly to most characters in Holy Pan? Angels (Mummy Priests) and Daevas (Greater Mummies); with the latter being worse; and there's a melee only creature that hits surprisingly hard, but is generally harmless unless you have poor AC Bennu (Guardian Mummy). The other spawns are mostly harmless.
[Or in clearer terms; the actual DEADLY thing to the floor is SPAMMED and it's only 2 monster types.]
That said; I do think Holy Pan is pretty badly designed still; in the same way that old tomb was. What's actually deadly to most characters in Holy Pan? Angels (Mummy Priests) and Daevas (Greater Mummies); with the latter being worse; and there's a melee only creature that hits surprisingly hard, but is generally harmless unless you have poor AC Bennu (Guardian Mummy). The other spawns are mostly harmless.
[Or in clearer terms; the actual DEADLY thing to the floor is SPAMMED and it's only 2 monster types.]
Re: Holy pan
Posted: Friday, 12th August 2016, 14:59bcadren wrote:Holy Pan is one of the reasons I like doing Hell before pan. Daevas with their SH and their Smiting are Greater Mummy tier threats...that cannot be silenced and are very very swingy to melee; nearly impossible to hit with ranged weapons (especially now that penetration is gone; ignoring monster SH was one of the bonuses of that brand). But with the Staff of Dispater...BAMF! 2 Shots, works everytime all the time.
That said; I do think Holy Pan is pretty badly designed still; in the same way that old tomb was. What's actually deadly to most characters in Holy Pan? Angels (Mummy Priests) and Daevas (Greater Mummies); with the latter being worse; and there's a melee only creature that hits surprisingly hard, but is generally harmless unless you have poor AC Bennu (Guardian Mummy). The other spawns are mostly harmless.
[Or in clearer terms; the actual DEADLY thing to the floor is SPAMMED and it's only 2 monster types.]
What you described makes me think it is well designed, not badly. Holy pan is my favorite level in extended. Thanks for note about staff of dispater, never knew it's so powerful.