DeCj - really want to win this one - which god?

[jwoodward48ss]

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-1002-g674d22e (tiles) character file.

Hunnitie the Conjurer (Deep Elf Conjurer)           Turns: 4249, Time: 00:06:48

Health: 37/37      AC:  4    Str:  5    XL:     7   Next: 21%
Magic:  16/16      EV: 13    Int: 22    God:   
Gold:   164        SH:  0    Dex: 15    Spells: 4 memorised, 6 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis .    o - +0 falchion
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    d - +0 leather armour (curse)
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (no shield)
rPois  .          Spirit   .    (no helmet)
rElec  .          Dismiss  .    f - +0 cloak
rCorr  .          Reflect  .    (no gloves)
SustAt .          Harm     .    (no boots)
MR     .....                    (no amulet)
Stlth  ++........               a - ring of protection from fire
                                l - +1 ring of slaying

@: not resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: no striking features
a: no special abilities


You are in the Ecumenical Temple.
You are very hungry.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 5 of its levels.

You have collected 164 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 o - a +0 falchion (weapon)
Armour
 d - a cursed +0 leather armour (worn)
 f - a +0 cloak (worn)
Jewellery
 a - a ring of protection from fire (right hand)
 l - a +1 ring of slaying (left hand)
 r - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
Wands
 p - a wand of lightning
Scrolls
 e - 2 scrolls of blinking
 i - a scroll of remove curse
 q - a scroll of identify
Potions
 g - a potion of mutation
 h - 3 potions of curing
 j - a potion of lignification
 k - 3 potions of heal wounds
 m - a metallic brown potion
 n - a black potion
Books
 b - a book of Conjurations   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Magic Dart                   Conjuration                   1
    b - Searing Ray                  Conjuration                   2
    c - Dazzling Spray               Conjuration/Hexes             3
    d - Fulminant Prism              Conjuration/Hexes             4
    e - Iskenderun's Mystic Blast    Conjuration                   4
    f - Iskenderun's Battlesphere    Conjuration/Charms            5
Comestibles
 c - 5 bread rations
 t - a meat ration


   Skills:
 + Level 0.4 Fighting
 - Level 1.2 Armour
 * Level 4.4 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 + Level 0.1 Unarmed Combat
 + Level 5.1 Spellcasting
 * Level 7.9 Conjurations


You have 6 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         1%          1    None
b - Searing Ray           Conj           #####.       1%          2    None
c - Dazzling Spray        Conj/Hex       ###...       12%         3    ##.....
d - Iskenderun's Mystic   Conj           #####...     8%          4    ####...


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (4/15)             Temple (1/1) D:4         

Altars:
Ashenzari
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Okawaru
Pakellas
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin

Message History

Key pressed, stopping explore.
Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
Key pressed, stopping explore.
Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
Key pressed, stopping explore.
You are feeling very hungry.
Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
Key pressed, stopping explore.
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
Key pressed, stopping explore.
Key pressed, stopping explore.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Char dumped to 'morgue/Hunnitie.txt'.
Save game and exit?

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   ##.....#.#...###
   #.......#.._..#.
   #.....@......###
   #...#.#....### #
#####.#####..##
#..#...###....### #
#.#.....#.......###
##..._..#.._.....#.
#.......#..........
##.....###.......#.


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Grinder (D:3)
  Sigmund (D:2)
  A crimson imp (D:4)
  A giant frog skeleton (D:4)
  An orc priest (D:4)
  An orc wizard (D:4)
  A worker ant (D:4)
  5 adders
  An adder zombie (D:2)
  2 worms
  11 dart slugs
  3 orcs (D:4)
  3 giant cockroaches (D:2)
  A goblin (D:2)
  5 hobgoblins
  4 kobolds
  2 quokkas
  A ball python (D:2)
  6 bats
  4 giant newts
  3 rats
58 creatures vanquished.

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Hunnitie the Deep Elf Conjurer began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 6/6
   156 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 2/8
   253 | D:1      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
   398 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Searing Ray
  1004 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 7/9
  1199 | D:2      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  1217 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Dazzling Spray
  1256 | D:2      | Noticed Sigmund
  1276 | D:2      | Killed Sigmund
  1276 | D:2      | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging
  1276 | D:2      | Reached skill level 6 in Conjurations
  1276 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 3/24 MP: 0/11
  1276 | D:2      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 4/28 MP: 0/12
  2477 | D:3      | Learned a level 4 spell: Iskenderun's Mystic Blast
  2570 | D:3      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  2734 | D:3      | Reached skill level 7 in Conjurations
  2736 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 31/32 MP: 3/13
  3228 | D:3      | Noticed Grinder
  3235 | D:3      | Killed Grinder
  3235 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
  3235 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging
  3235 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Spellcasting
  3596 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 37/37 MP: 10/16
  3669 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  4044 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4069 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 |
---------------+----------------------+-----
Conjurations   |     5  6     7       |  7.9
Dodging        |        3        4    |  4.4
Armour         |                 1    |  1.2
Spellcasting   |                 4  5 |  5.1
Fighting       |                      |  0.4
Stealth        |                      |  2.4
Unarmed Combat |                      |  0.1

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |     8 |       |       ||     8
 Cast: Magic Dart        |    42 |    65 |     8 ||   115
       Searing Ray       |     4 |     9 |     3 ||    16
  Use: Scroll            |     6 |     4 |       ||    10
       Potion            |     1 |       |       ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     1 |     6 |     2 ||     9
Armor: Leather armour    |     1 |     1 |     2 ||     4
Dodge: Dodged            |    11 |    15 |       ||    26

I'm leaning Veh, but if someone can explain what I did wrong to splat a thousand Sif-worshippers, I'm fine with Sif too.

[ydeve]

Whichever of sif/veh/fedhas/dith/kiku you run into first.

[duvessa]

to make it easiest to win this one: kiku or fedhas
to make it hardest to win this one: chei/xom/qazlal

the rest of the gods won't affect the difficulty of winning this one by much

[Hands]

to make it easiest to win this one: kiku or fedhas
to make it hardest to win this one: chei/xom/qazlal

the rest of the gods won't affect the difficulty of winning this one by much

Going Trog is also probably a bad idea at this point.

[ololoev]

Veh only. Just don't let this pesky critters come close to you, fight only a few enemies at once.
1. Go Veh.
2. Get 2 lair runes. You should have Firestorm ready by that point.
3. Go do 2-3 zigs. Learn necromutation and tornado.
4. Now you can do 15 runes without any effort.

EDIT sorry for a little bit of trolling, you better train dodgeing and put point into fighting right at the point you have solid damaging spell castable. IMB + Battlesphere at 10% fail is a good point.

[Magipi]

Veh only. Just don't let this pesky critters come close to you, fight only a few enemies at once.
1. Go Veh.
2. Get 2 lair runes. You should have Firestorm ready by that point.
3. Go do 2-3 zigs. Learn necromutation and tornado. Train defences.
4. Now you can do 15 runes without any effort.

So Firestorm first, 2-3 zigs next, and THEN train defences. Solid plan. Too bad this isn't CYC.

[BabyRage]

Veh only. Just don't let this pesky critters come close to you, fight only a few enemies at once.
1. Go Veh.
2. Get 2 lair runes. You should have Firestorm ready by that point.
3. Go do 2-3 zigs. Learn necromutation and tornado. Train defences.
4. Now you can do 15 runes without any effort.

So Firestorm first, 2-3 zigs next, and THEN train defences. Solid plan. Too bad this isn't CYC.

Why? This is legit strategy, worked for me.

[nago]

A lot of stupidly bad strategies work in crawl because overall it is easy, until the 100th foo giant hit you twice for max damage and suddenly you discover that having 10/10 AC/EV 100hp by mid/late game is going around asking to be one-shot by everything with a yellow name.
Specifically speaking about that one, I don't know what even say. Pretty much every line or single sentence of that post is a bad advice.
Going zig even before 3rd rune?
Going vehu no matter what other god\altar you may get earlier\at same time?
Get firestorm by lair?
Train two lv.9 spells to do extended?
Train Necromut, to do extended?
Train all that shit, before defences?
I hope it was a good troll attempt.

So Firestorm first, 2-3 zigs next, and THEN train defences. Solid plan. Too bad this isn't CYC.

If it was longer it would have been a 100% legit wiki guide!

[ololoev]

Going zig even before 3rd rune?
Yeah, it's okay since firestorming everything in sight with Veh's MP on kill is okay. You even firestom OOF floor. Don't forget to carry !lignification for a mummy floor.
Going vehu no matter what other god\altar you may get earlier\at same time?
Sure! Difference between Veh and other altars are 2-4 floors and since DECj is a strong start, it can get to Lair and do several floors even without god.
Get firestorm by lair?
Not exactly. Getting Firestorm by Lair:6 is kinda tricky and depends on Wiz/Int items drop, but you can easily have it with <10% fail chance after your first rune.
Train two lv.9 spells to do extended?
Train Necromut, to do extended?
LOL, no! As a DECj^Veh he should train axes and invocations!
Train all that shit, before defences?
That last string was a troll attempt and I'm sorry to put it in DCA, it suits CYC more.

[4Hooves2Appendages]

I'd say go with Kiku. You will get a selection of very good spells quickly and you have great necro aptitude.

You can also improve your winning chances by adjusting your skill training:
- Switch to manual training.
- Train one skill at a time.
- If you are killing enemies reasonably well then get defences (i.e. fighting / dodging).
- Don't train spellcasting unless you need more spell levels. (Or it costs less than 1/4 of your primary attack school.)
- Don't train unarmed. Look for a decent brand short blade, staff or long blade instead. Train a few cheap levels for that weapon (not right now though).

[ximxim]

I feel Oka is generally solid for most characters, +5 to physical skills is really strong, and it comes online much earlier than Ash. Especially for a species with mediocre defensive apts like De, that's a lot of exp you can invest in your offence instead.

[TonberryJam]

Cj is pretty strong. If anything, it only needs a large mana pool.

[Reptisaurus]

Deep Elf isn't that great, though.

There are lots of easier conjurer options.

[jwoodward48ss]

I died. Stupid Joseph and his flaming bullets...

So I'm guessing you're referring to Gargoyles or some other, hardier species? DE are glass cannons, and evasion's not that good. I think I'll try a GrEE next, it seems to be similar to a Cj except with pieces of stone instead of pieces of magic.

[ydeve]

Dr,Hu,HO are all good caster species as well.

[Dolgar]

I'm trying Draconians as casters. It's pretty fun (even if I die often due to my lack of caster's knowledge, but I learn fast)

[arandomperson12]

Dr,Hu,HO are all good caster species as well.

But HO has bad spellcasting aptitude, so you need more exp to get spell slots.

[Sar]

You should probably look at the sum of the useful aptitudes, not the outliers.

[jwoodward48ss]

So since you don't need to put as much XP into your main magic skill (Cj or FE or whatever), it's fine to need a little more XP for Spellcasting?

[Sar]

spell slots are rarely much of a concern in my experience

[jwoodward48ss]

Have you never worshipped Veh?

[Sar]

I have. The secret of my success is that I don't memorize literally every spell he offers me!

[Shard1697]

I don't think I've ever had a Veh game where I memorized more than 2 spell gifts

[jwoodward48ss]

...but but but

So I'm at level 5 and I get a gift. I'm not going to pass it by, because it's the best spell I have access to. So I spam Spellcasting to get the next spell level to learn it.

But now I'm out of amnesia scrolls, the wonderfulspell is now a mediocre spell in a sea of other mediocre spells, and Veh's giving me something awesome, like Fireball. Repeat. Lehudib's Spear, repeat.

Now do you see my problem? You know how it's said to "never plan for the future if it means you die today"?

[Shard1697]

...what spell are you getting from Veh at level 5 that is better than what you have in your starting book? Early veh gifts are generally trash... in fact, most veh gifts are trash.

Ex: if you get lucky, as a FE start, you could get bolt of fire, and something like iron shot for non-fire damage... if neither of those happen to show up in books, and veh gifts both of them, and you are able to memorize both before the gift is replaced. And then maybe if you get real lucky 1 other useful spell, like... spellforged servitor? What else aside from "good multi target damage spell/good single target damage spell/spellforged servitor if you're really lucky" could you even get from veh that's worth learning on a damage spell start, where you already start with a book that can take you to and past lair?

[jwoodward48ss]

fine

it was an example

[Psieye]

...but but but

Welcome to crawl's secret way of killing off intermediate characters: EXP temptations. The game constantly bombards you with "look at this Cool Thing you could add to your character! You only need to pay enough EXP to raise this skill to X!" As such, you die from bad strategic decisions to should-be-easy encounters.

Sure, the high Spc aptitude of DE is great for trying out lots of different spells. But if you're trying to actually win, learn to recognise and cut the unnecessary fat. Ask yourself: "do I want to learn this spell because I actually need to fill a hole in my toolbox, or do I just want to feel good?"