The Tavern

From current hit points.

I just lost a promising SpEn (offline, because P357 is down) because he took 60 damage from a thorn hunter. How am I supposed to know that the volley of thorns is going to be able to do that much damage? What is the point of giving HP totals if I can't gauge how much damage I can actually take?

Upon closer inspection, it appeared he fired 3 rounds of it in one turn. wtf? Is there something I need to know about this monster that the wiki isn't telling me?

The only way to know if an enemy can oneshot you is looking up its damage numbers, via the knowledge bots or wherever else.

I would like if crawl had something like "It can kill you this turn" in descriptions, but then again, I would also like if crawl had brogue-esque "It can do 11%-33% of your max HP in one hit, and at worst could kill you in 3 hits" descriptions.

I think crawls dangerous and extremely dangerous system is good, you take damage from dangerous enemies and you can sort of have and idea on average how they hit and even specifically how that specific enemy hits, but this system fails quite often with things like Komodo dragons or extremely uniques that just suck and are easy. Crawl telling how much damage enemies do to you removed player knowledge and makes the game easier which most people with wins will agree that the game shouldn't be made easier

CypherZel wrote:I think crawls dangerous and extremely dangerous system is good, you take damage from dangerous enemies and you can sort of have and idea on average how they hit and even specifically how that specific enemy hits, but this system fails quite often with things like Komodo dragons or extremely uniques that just suck and are easy. Crawl telling how much damage enemies do to you removed player knowledge and makes the game easier which most people with wins will agree that the game shouldn't be made easier

I know what these words mean individually, but not in this order

duvessa wrote:
CypherZel wrote:I think crawls dangerous and extremely dangerous system is good, you take damage from dangerous enemies and you can sort of have and idea on average how they hit and even specifically how that specific enemy hits, but this system fails quite often with things like Komodo dragons or extremely uniques that just suck and are easy. Crawl telling how much damage enemies do to you removed player knowledge and makes the game easier which most people with wins will agree that the game shouldn't be made easier
I know what these words mean individually, but not in this order

It's 6:00 am now and I woke up at 6:00 am yesterday so I apologise for anything that sounds full retard

CypherZel wrote:I think crawls dangerous and extremely dangerous system is good, you take damage from dangerous enemies and you can sort of have and idea on average how they hit and even specifically how that specific enemy hits, but this system fails quite often with things like Komodo dragons or extremely uniques that just suck and are easy. Crawl telling how much damage enemies do to you removed player knowledge and makes the game easier which most people with wins will agree that the game shouldn't be made easier

In what world does that remove player knowledge? Perhaps the one where it's considered good that people be forced to remember every little detail in a game specifically designed to hide stuff?

Wait untill you get oneshotted by crystal spear from ogre mage. Or any magic from Elf:3. That's why I don't like playing Sp. So many things that can go wrong, especially with bolts and magic.
I guess a lot of AC helps, like rings+5\buckler w/ protection. Amulet of reflection would've helped if you're lucky enough.
Remembering monster abilities and skills plus a ton of luck is the way to go. Perhaps it's more the latter than the first.

If you play a ton of games, you get some general idea about monster damage. The only way to know exact numbers is to look it up in the source code I guess.

Wiki has numbers, but I'm not sure how accurate.

PowerOfKaishin wrote:
CypherZel wrote:I think crawls dangerous and extremely dangerous system is good, you take damage from dangerous enemies and you can sort of have and idea on average how they hit and even specifically how that specific enemy hits, but this system fails quite often with things like Komodo dragons or extremely uniques that just suck and are easy. Crawl telling how much damage enemies do to you removed player knowledge and makes the game easier which most people with wins will agree that the game shouldn't be made easier

In what world does that remove player knowledge? Perhaps the one where it's considered good that people be forced to remember every little detail in a game specifically designed to hide stuff?

Because you are no longer required to be familiar with your enemies

CypherZel wrote:
PowerOfKaishin wrote:In what world does that remove player knowledge? Perhaps the one where it's considered good that people be forced to remember every little detail in a game specifically designed to hide stuff?

Because you are no longer required to be familiar with your enemies

For me personally, it would just save some time i spend looking up monster damage.
Also, if you're very scared of losing to a single max damage roll, you can always be a hipster and play felids. That's what i do. On the other hand, you'd need to know monster damage even better with them.

ZoFy wrote:
CypherZel wrote:
PowerOfKaishin wrote:In what world does that remove player knowledge? Perhaps the one where it's considered good that people be forced to remember every little detail in a game specifically designed to hide stuff?

Because you are no longer required to be familiar with your enemies

For me personally, it would just save some time i spend looking up monster damage.
Also, if you're very scared of losing to a single max damage roll, you can always be a hipster and play felids. That's what i do. On the other hand, you'd need to know monster damage even better with them.

You can say that about half the game, do you look up every equation and multipliers in the game? When you get a new weapon do you get a calculator out and run its base damage and slaying through the damage multiplier?
The game hides things for a reason

There are indeed people who look up every monster's damage all the time. I don't do this, but I look up/have memorized certain monster's damage(for example, I can tell you off the top of my head that a hobgoblin has 2 AC and 5 base damage(so 10 with a club added) instead of 0 AC and 4 damage for a goblin, an ettin has 45,45 base damage, and an OoF shoots for 3d40/3d43 damage), and will definitely check monster damage if I get in a tight spot, because these are things that can and do matter.

CypherZel wrote:
PowerOfKaishin wrote:
CypherZel wrote:I think crawls dangerous and extremely dangerous system is good, you take damage from dangerous enemies and you can sort of have and idea on average how they hit and even specifically how that specific enemy hits, but this system fails quite often with things like Komodo dragons or extremely uniques that just suck and are easy. Crawl telling how much damage enemies do to you removed player knowledge and makes the game easier which most people with wins will agree that the game shouldn't be made easier

In what world does that remove player knowledge? Perhaps the one where it's considered good that people be forced to remember every little detail in a game specifically designed to hide stuff?

Because you are no longer required to be familiar with your enemies

Well sure, depending on how you want to use the word remove, I suppose this is true. But there's nothing wrong with not having to be familiar with enemies.

If enemies just vary by "how quickly can they kill me," then we've got a problem, and we can't patch it up by requiring players to experiment to determine the exact value of that variable.

arandomperson12 wrote:Wiki has numbers, but I'm not sure how accurate.

The wiki's damage numbers are pretty good, although you have to remember that monsters with weapons add the weapon damage to their base damage. So e.g. an Ettin's two up-to-45 damage hits become up-to-67 damage hits when it wields GSCs.

I'm slightly confused by your death. Got a morgue?

Were all three hits thorn volleys? Volley of thorns is 3d18, so quite dangerous at max 54 damage. Thorn hunters are speed 12, so to shoot you three times you had to spend at the very least something like 17 to 18 aut on something. Did you do a really slow action? Like swing a slow weapon without training, or perhaps you had a slowing debuff like roots and/or water.

Alternatively, thorn hunters hit twice in melee. Were you next to it?

Alternatively, were there multiple thorn hunters?

If you play webtiles, find a game where beem is spectating. Write !beem subscribe in the chat box. Then beem will watch your games. Then you can write %??monster in the chat box and beem will give you the data you want. Beem is extremely good. This isn't perfect because weapon base damage, and I think enchant, affects enemy damage and isn't taken into account, but you can get a pretty good idea of what to expect.

Despite many players choosing to effectively have sequell integrated with the game in this way, there is resistance to adding this data to x-v, for reasons unknown to me.

I assume that thorn hunter's name was red in the monster list. It's a good idea to assume anything red named can 1 shot you and just run from it until it's offscreen (doable for a Sp)

I believe we should replace player HP numbers with HP bar. As noted above, defense numbers are useless without offense numbers and if devs don't want to display offense numbers, they should not provide defense numbers either.
Also player HP should be randomized every 500-1000 turns, i.e. you can have 90% normal HP during one period and 110% normal HP during another.

I really don't understand why you think that.

Comparing characters is important. Max HP is important. Actual numbers are important, rather than eyeballing.

And I have no idea why HP would be randomized.

The Tavern

Is there a way to tell if an enemy can kill me in one hit?

Is there a way to tell if an enemy can kill me in one hit?

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