Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I do?


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Tuesday, 21st June 2016, 14:50

Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I do?

80/80

Seriously though, all these mummies are killing me, literally. How do I deal with torment? Even Makhleb can't keep up because mummy death curses also torment me. Statue Form is not helping that much either.

Also I got zot petrified and the staircase wasn't in reach and I had like 100 health. Was it acceptable to Borgnjor's beforehand or was that overkill? >.>

Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 21st June 2016, 14:54

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

Potions of lignification, DD's damage shaving and Makhleb make Tomb extremely easy.
If you spot a grammar mistake in my post I will appreciate if you PM it.

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Post Tuesday, 21st June 2016, 14:58

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

Use your heal wands. Also keep in mind it's hard for most enemies in tomb to actually bring you to 0 HP.
remove food

Spider Stomper

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Post Tuesday, 21st June 2016, 15:12

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

PowerOfKaishin wrote:80/80

Seriously though, all these mummies are killing me, literally. How do I deal with torment? Even Makhleb can't keep up because mummy death curses also torment me. Statue Form is not helping that much either.

Torment is damage as a % of your health. The lower your HP the lower the next damage sustained from torment will be.
F.e. if you choose to start *each* fight with max hp you might get problems with your charges.
Starting the next fight with 50% hp is fine if you can make a good guess what kind of damage you'll get.

But you didn't write how you got tormented that much that you even had problems with *Makhleb*.
If you swing at countless summons while mummies in the background smite/torment you .... then you would deserve to have problems :D

PowerOfKaishin wrote:Also I got zot petrified and the staircase wasn't in reach and I had like 100 health.

Potion of cancellation cancels a lot of status effects. It helps here. Rare potion worthy of 'petri' :)

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Tuesday, 21st June 2016, 16:12

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

Probably should have cancelled instead of losing 5 max HP. Oh well...

Of course I'm having problems with Makhleb. His HP recovery is useless when killing mummies takes that away and more.

I always swing at the greater mummies and priests first, for obvious reasons. I got tormented twice and suddenly lost 150 HP. That's a little nuts don't you think? I can't get that back without lots of heal charges either since Makhleb's recovery doesn't do much here.

Edit: Apparently mummy death curses can kill you too? How am I suppose to stay at low HP and survive? That's exactly what you're not supposed to do in this game yet you guys are implying that is the strategy here.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 21st June 2016, 16:31

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

being a DD is unfair to the monsters

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Blades Runner

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Post Tuesday, 21st June 2016, 16:40

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

I know, right? The worst thing is hellfire. Like, 15 damage hellfire... The demons should just give you their runes and run away.
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Post Tuesday, 21st June 2016, 19:29

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

PowerOfKaishin wrote:Probably should have cancelled instead of losing 5 max HP. Oh well...

It sounded like you didn't know what to do against petri and still felt bothered. I provided a solution. If you think it's not worth it: why do you mention it as a problem ?

PowerOfKaishin wrote:Of course I'm having problems with Makhleb. His HP recovery is useless when killing mummies takes that away and more.

You know how much you recover from each kill which means that you shouldn't lose more or have the means to restore HP by other means. This could mean that you keep harmless monster for later to recover from or try 1 vs 1 whereever you can.
Makhleb is considered to be one of the easiest gods in the game. It would be fitting to describe your *exact* problems.

PowerOfKaishin wrote:I always swing at the greater mummies and priests first, for obvious reasons.

Nobody knows what you consider to be obvious since you didn't describe the situation which bothered you.
Complaining about torment in general will leave readers puzzled.

PowerOfKaishin wrote: I got tormented twice and suddenly lost 150 HP. That's a little nuts don't you think?

No.
That's the job description of them and most of the dangerous monster in Pan/Hell.
Tomb is extended. Nobody needs to do it to win.

PowerOfKaishin wrote:I can't get that back without lots of heal charges either since Makhleb's recovery doesn't do much here.

Edit: Apparently mummy death curses can kill you too? How am I suppose to stay at low HP and survive? That's exactly what you're not supposed to do in this game yet you guys are implying that is the strategy here.

*You* are not supposed to do anything. Tomb is extended/optional.
You're a caster, have spells at your disposal and decided not to get (or wait for them to show up) the rather low-level spells silence/aura of abjuration which could make Tomb a bit trivial especially with damage-shaving+Makhleb. That's your choice. Nobody knows your character and the choices you made.
Some players even leave tomb for the last rune of their 15-rune wins.
Do that (Getting 14 runes) if you don't feel ready for tomb and enjoy Pan+Hell first.

I provided a link to my games in my sig. 15-rune wins with every species, never used necromut and still making tomb with each race.
Yes, I'm playing with 70% - 50% health when I don't have the charges/potions to restore my health to max every time I wanted it. Roughly 70% health is what you're left with after 1st torment with most chars.
This was my advice appropriate to the the kind of information *you* provided.
Provide better information (char dump ??) and you might get more reactions (from other posters) which might please you more.

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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2016, 13:18

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

I used borgnjors before you offered your solution. Hopefully I'll remember later.

The rest of your stuff is valid. It's a rather embarrassing character dump and I'd rather not post it since I was playing on tilt.

There are two things I'm confused about though.

1. Does silence stop me from being actively tormented by mummies? Is symbol of torment a spell that can be silenced? If not, how do I avoid getting tormented and how do I deal with the HP loss as a character that doesnt regenerate hp? Let's run under the assumption that I not want to burn 5 charges after every fight.

2. Why does everyone say damage shaving is so good? What does it do in tomb? Damage shaving just gives DD a cheesy way to pretend they have rpois and wrecks the offensive capabilities of hydras.

Man the no regeneration thing throws me through a loop and the fact that DD is so easy leaves me I'll prepared for actual challenges. I always 15 rune because I'm a Timmy and I like to power game. Maybe I'll just go back to OpTm and ascend another 15 runer

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2016, 13:31

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

Mummies voice their spells so silence does stop their Symbol of Torment. It won't stop their posthumous curse-torment, though.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2016, 13:46

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

Does that apply to Ice Fiends as well? Because that came up earlier in the ice caves and that would've helped greatly.

I'm really surprised Silence wasn't mentioned to me as an answer to Torment until now.

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Nebukadnezar

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2016, 13:55

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

1.) rN+++

2.) Necromutation

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2016, 13:58

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

Ice fiends are demons and thus cast by gesturing. You can see it in the flavour message: if a monster "speaks" it can be silenced, if it "gestures" it can't. Mara is a demon, btw.
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Barkeep

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2016, 14:01

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

PowerOfKaishin wrote:I'm really surprised Silence wasn't mentioned to me as an answer to Torment until now.

Not to be all "wiki is amazing" but the pages on Torment and all the tormenting mummies mention it.

And you want to be careful with it, of course; it sucks to be silenced and then have another mummy wander in outside the radius of your silence start tormenting you.

I still remember trying to silence Mara (back when ?Silence was really rare) and being really pissed off about that one.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2016, 14:05

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

PowerOfKaishin wrote:Does that apply to Ice Fiends as well? Because that came up earlier in the ice caves and that would've helped greatly.

no

PowerOfKaishin wrote:I'm really surprised Silence wasn't mentioned to me as an answer to Torment until now.

Silence is the easy solution for anyone who wants to shut down spellcasters.
Greater Mummies are casters (voice) while demons use grimaces/fingers/whatever.
I've also mentioned Aura of abjuration which adds a bit to silence in Tomb because
1. Greater Mummies might summon stuff before you are able to cast silence and
2. There might be summoned monster from death curses which would appear under your umbrella of silence.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2016, 14:29

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

Airwolf wrote:1.) rN+++

2.) Necromutation


rN+++ is hardly what I would call effective at reducing torment damage. Taking 35% instead of 50% is still as annoying as all hell and doesn't really solve the problem.

Necromutation excludes holy wrath weapons. =( But is otherwise a good option yes.
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Barkeep

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2016, 15:05

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

antimagic works on everything

35% damage is way better than 50% damage actually. Yeah it's still annoying (torment is annoying) but having rN+++ is better than not having it, and you're in extended so you probably can get it without serious tradeoffs. It's not like Tomb is full of OOFs or anything anyhow.
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2016, 07:35

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

One thing that annoys me about the extended game is the abundance of Torment. And how little there is to actually deal with it. But once you do the extended game gets much easier.
"Crawl is cruel. But we keep coming back to it like an abusive boyfriend. It keeps telling us how it will be different this time by giving us early robes of the archmagi and staves of fire. Then it backhands you with a Centaur on D4." ~Me

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2016, 08:34

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

Torment is a very well designed attack IMO with a very wide variety of ways to minimize or avoid it, the overabundance problem might be solved by only generating Pan or Hell in a given game (and shortening Pan, I suppose), which IIRC is something that is being worked on.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2016, 14:52

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

Well when you can't regenerate naturally it can be a huge pain.

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Post Friday, 24th June 2016, 16:04

Re: Getting tormented as a DD feels almost unfair. What do I

PowerOfKaishin wrote:
Airwolf wrote:1.) rN+++

2.) Necromutation


rN+++ is hardly what I would call effective at reducing torment damage. Taking 35% instead of 50% is still as annoying as all hell and doesn't really solve the problem.

Necromutation excludes holy wrath weapons. =( But is otherwise a good option yes.


(35%)^N is much less annoying than (50%)^N.

Also:

3.) Line-of-sight tactics
a.) Fog

4.) Ranged attacks
a.) Penetration
b.) Portal Projectile
c.) Bolt spells
d.) Smite-targetted spells or invocations

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