Artificer phenomenon


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Shoals Surfer

Posts: 329

Joined: Wednesday, 19th December 2012, 13:23

Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 00:55

Artificer phenomenon

I have a question which has been bothering me for a while. There were a few posts here at the Tavern saying that Artificer background has the highest online win rate in recent versions or something like that. Yet you almost never see people recommending that background alongside what's considered best starts like Be and IE.
Can anyone clarify this and tell how good artificers actually are? Maybe they are much better for experienced or hypothetical optimal players than for newers ones because they require some adaptibility? And newer players are generally the ones asking for a good starting background while not picking Artificer by themselves.
Oh, and could Pakellas be one of the factors to move Ar higher on the list in 0.18+? That's actually a lot of questions...
Offline greaterplayer (who cares). I don't always play online, but when i do, i streak felids.
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 01:00

Re: Artificer phenomenon

what you're seeing is that you get a pretty good proxy for winrate rankings by just ranking characters by popularity and then inverting the list, yes

Artificer is okay, it's a gladiator variant like assassin. Not as good as old assassin, might be similar to post-needle-nerf assassin?

For this message the author crate has received thanks: 4
amalloy, duvessa, ydeve, ZoFy

Cocytus Succeeder

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Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 08:01

Re: Artificer phenomenon

crate wrote: you get a pretty good proxy for winrate rankings by just ranking characters by popularity and then inverting the list, yes

So Be is pretty much the worst background, and CK is the best. Sounds convincing.

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 885

Joined: Sunday, 28th June 2015, 14:44

Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 08:15

Re: Artificer phenomenon

Magipi wrote:
crate wrote: you get a pretty good proxy for winrate rankings by just ranking characters by popularity and then inverting the list, yes

So Be is pretty much the worst background, and CK is the best. Sounds convincing.

This is a misconstruction of crate's statement. He implied that high winrate is not equivalent to strong background due to newbies playing popular backgrounds and mostly experienced players playing unpopular ones.

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Arrhythmia

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Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 08:19

Re: Artificer phenomenon

Oh. I see. Thanks.

Abyss Ambulator

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Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57

Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 11:23

Re: Artificer phenomenon

Does anyone have a combos sorted by win % link or something?
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Dis Charger

Posts: 1939

Joined: Monday, 18th February 2013, 07:59

Location: France

Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 11:56

Re: Artificer phenomenon

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:Does anyone have a combos sorted by win % link or something?
Sequell does.
Spoiler: show
Sequell wrote:43918/5791034 games for *: 1/3x SaIE [33.33%], 2/13x GrDK [15.38%], 1/9x ImMo [11.11%], 1/10x GnPr [10.00%], 1/10x OMAs [10.00%], 1/14x LOSt [7.14%], 1/14x GECK [7.14%], 49/707x MiAs [6.93%], 1/15x GEBe [6.67%], 3/47x LOVM [6.38%], 21/366x DDVM [5.74%], 1/18x ImHu [5.56%], 23/422x DDFE [5.45%], 60/1113x MiAr [5.39%], 24/448x CeAs [5.36%], 2/39x LOAE [5.13%], 19/372x DDAM [5.11%], 26/513x GrAM [5.07%], 25/520x DDSu [4.81%], 1/21x OMBe [4.76%], 29/619x GrAE [4.68%], 2/43x DDRe [4.65%], 3/66x LOHu [4.55%], 2/44x ChTm [4.55%], 1/22x LaGl [4.55%], 25/553x DDTm [4.52%], 13/298x VSAM [4.36%], 27/621x GhHu [4.35%], 49/1143x TrAM [4.29%], 1/24x FeGl [4.17%], 41/994x TrAs [4.12%], 19/462x CeEn [4.11%], 23/562x HOVM [4.09%], 30/735x GhAr [4.08%], 1/25x FePa [4.00%], 1/25x MiTh [4.00%], 1/25x PlAK [4.00%], 25/637x DDAs [3.92%], 26/667x MiSu [3.90%], 22/567x HaEE [3.88%], 19/490x VSHu [3.88%], 1/26x SaTm [3.85%], 25/673x TrAE [3.71%], 18/487x DDCj [3.70%], 31/855x NaAr [3.63%], 3/83x GnHe [3.61%], 33/917x VSAr [3.60%], 31/864x MiAM [3.59%], 32/896x HOAs [3.57%], 19/534x HaVM [3.56%], 23/650x HOAM [3.54%], 16/461x DDSk [3.47%], 2/58x LOAM [3.45%], 1/29x FeRe [3.45%], 1/29x CeTh [3.45%], 1/29x OgTh [3.45%], 33/957x FeEE [3.45%], 1/29x HDTh [3.45%], 16/469x FoIE [3.41%], 3/88x MDTh [3.41%], 25/740x MfAM [3.38%], 29/860x DDMo [3.37%], 23/687x CeNe [3.35%], 22/665x CeAr [3.31%], 26/798x MiEn [3.26%], 33/1022x GrAs [3.23%], 7/217x LOAr [3.23%], 2/62x HaRe [3.23%], 16/501x CeVM [3.19%], 5/157x MDSt [3.18%], 22/692x MiIE [3.18%], 57/1812x HOAr [3.15%], 35/1116x MiWr [3.14%], 4/128x DDCr [3.12%], 30/968x GrAr [3.10%], 40/1291x DrHu [3.10%], 23/745x HaCj [3.09%], 41/1347x DrAs [3.04%], 23/758x MiEE [3.03%], 10/334x DDPr [2.99%], 153/5139x HaBe [2.98%], 1/34x DDTh [2.94%], 11/375x HaHe [2.93%], 8/275x VSHe [2.91%], 1/35x GhJr [2.86%], 25/878x TrSk [2.85%], 4/142x SESk [2.82%], 3/108x DgJr [2.78%], 1/36x TrTh [2.78%], 1/36x GnWn [2.78%], 35/1261x TrAr [2.78%], 95/3443x DDGl [2.76%], 8/290x VSDK [2.76%], 82/3023x TrWr [2.71%], 1/37x DjEE [2.70%], 29/1073x MiFE [2.70%], 1/37x GnCj [2.70%], 13/481x HaSu [2.70%], 27/1002x GhAK [2.69%], 23/859x GhAM [2.68%], 25/938x MfFE [2.67%], 10/378x HaDK [2.65%], 17/645x MfEE [2.64%], 30/1139x MiAE [2.63%], 19/722x VpHu [2.63%], 2/76x MiRe [2.63%], 1/38x ElTm [2.63%], 22/843x TrSu [2.61%], 27/1047x MiCj [2.58%], 31/1205x MfHu [2.57%], 235/9150x DDEE [2.57%], 38/1481x OgAs [2.57%], 1/39x BeIE [2.56%], 37/1482x MiSk [2.50%], 16/641x CeSu [2.50%], 30/1206x MfAr [2.49%], 21/845x HOTm [2.49%], 5/202x HOSt [2.48%], 17/691x TrVM [2.46%], 3/123x MDAs [2.44%], 15/619x DDDK [2.42%], 20/839x VSFE [2.38%], 1/42x LOEn [2.38%], 2/84x OgJr [2.38%], 25/1057x FoAs [2.37%], 5/213x DDSt [2.35%], 22/948x SpIE [2.32%], 2/87x NaJr [2.30%], 14/609x LOCK [2.30%], 18/783x DDWz [2.30%], 31/1352x CeHe [2.29%], 78/3413x HOHe [2.29%], 29/1270x DgVM [2.28%], 9/395x MiSt [2.28%], 17/752x GhCj [2.26%], 1/45x CeJr [2.22%], 2/90x CeRe [2.22%], 1/45x SaBe [2.22%]...
As crate suggested, experimental combos (Salamandes, Imps) that have been played only a few times get the highest scores...

And for playable combos :
Spoiler: show
Sequell wrote:40589/5225865 games for * (playable): 49/707x MiAs [6.93%], 21/366x DDVM [5.74%], 23/422x DDFE [5.45%], 60/1113x MiAr [5.39%], 24/448x CeAs [5.36%], 19/372x DDAM [5.11%], 26/513x GrAM [5.07%], 25/520x DDSu [4.81%], 29/619x GrAE [4.68%], 25/553x DDTm [4.52%], 13/298x VSAM [4.36%], 27/621x GhHu [4.35%], 49/1143x TrAM [4.29%], 41/994x TrAs [4.12%], 19/462x CeEn [4.11%], 23/562x HOVM [4.09%], 30/735x GhAr [4.08%], 25/637x DDAs [3.92%], 26/667x MiSu [3.90%], 22/567x HaEE [3.88%], 19/490x VSHu [3.88%], 25/673x TrAE [3.71%], 18/487x DDCj [3.70%], 31/855x NaAr [3.63%], 33/917x VSAr [3.60%], 31/864x MiAM [3.59%], 32/896x HOAs [3.57%], 19/534x HaVM [3.56%], 23/650x HOAM [3.54%], 16/461x DDSk [3.47%], 33/957x FeEE [3.45%], 16/469x FoIE [3.41%], 25/740x MfAM [3.38%], 29/860x DDMo [3.37%], 23/687x CeNe [3.35%], 22/665x CeAr [3.31%], 26/798x MiEn [3.26%], 33/1022x GrAs [3.23%], 16/501x CeVM [3.19%], 22/692x MiIE [3.18%], 57/1812x HOAr [3.15%], 35/1116x MiWr [3.14%], 30/968x GrAr [3.10%], 40/1291x DrHu [3.10%], 23/745x HaCj [3.09%], 41/1347x DrAs [3.04%], 23/758x MiEE [3.03%], 153/5139x HaBe [2.98%], 25/878x TrSk [2.85%], 35/1261x TrAr [2.78%], 95/3443x DDGl [2.76%], 82/3023x TrWr [2.71%], 29/1073x MiFE [2.70%], 13/481x HaSu [2.70%], 27/1002x GhAK [2.69%], 23/859x GhAM [2.68%], 25/938x MfFE [2.67%], 17/645x MfEE [2.64%], 30/1139x MiAE [2.63%], 19/722x VpHu [2.63%], 22/843x TrSu [2.61%], 27/1047x MiCj [2.58%], 31/1205x MfHu [2.57%], 235/9150x DDEE [2.57%], 38/1481x OgAs [2.57%], 37/1482x MiSk [2.50%], 16/641x CeSu [2.50%], 30/1206x MfAr [2.49%], 21/845x HOTm [2.49%], 17/691x TrVM [2.46%], 20/839x VSFE [2.38%], 25/1057x FoAs [2.37%], 22/948x SpIE [2.32%], 18/783x DDWz [2.30%], 29/1270x DgVM [2.28%], 17/752x GhCj [2.26%], 20/906x HaIE [2.21%], 26/1178x VSWr [2.21%], 21/957x DrAM [2.19%], 24/1097x HOAE [2.19%], 53/2439x MfAs [2.17%], 456/21113x DDFi [2.16%], 17/788x FoFE [2.16%], 20/936x HEEE [2.14%], 26/1219x HOWr [2.13%], 18/845x FoSu [2.13%], 26/1232x OgAE [2.11%], 24/1147x TrCj [2.09%], 58/2785x TrWn [2.08%], 29/1395x HaCK [2.08%], 20/970x TrEn [2.06%], 332/16129x HOGl [2.06%], 22/1071x GrSu [2.05%], 31/1510x HaAM [2.05%], 33/1608x OgAr [2.05%], 42/2061x FeFE [2.04%], 16/787x GrEn [2.03%], 14/691x GhEn [2.03%], 23/1137x GrWr [2.02%], 29/1434x HaTm [2.02%], 22/1092x TrIE [2.01%], 17/844x HEVM [2.01%], 54/2684x GhWr [2.01%], 46/2289x DgNe [2.01%], 17/846x CeFE [2.01%], 27/1348x DgAr [2.00%], 42/2117x DDCK [1.98%], 66/3335x CeMo [1.98%], 19/962x VSVM [1.98%], 23/1170x GhSk [1.97%], 37/1887x HOHu [1.96%], 26/1355x DrEn [1.92%], 32/1674x NaSu [1.91%], 21/1100x GhAs [1.91%], 138/7235x MfBe [1.91%], 34/1790x HaGl [1.90%], 25/1337x SpFE [1.87%], 86/4603x DDAr [1.87%], 25/1347x HaNe [1.86%], 482/26071x GrBe [1.85%], 22/1191x CeSk [1.85%], 246/13326x GrGl [1.85%], 505/27483x MiGl [1.84%], 28/1534x OgSu [1.83%], 16/881x FoAE [1.82%], 21/1162x MfNe [1.81%], 40/2214x HaAr [1.81%], 23/1278x KoSk [1.80%], 71/3951x CeBe [1.80%], 296/16497x DDBe [1.79%], 30/1689x MfWr [1.78%]...

Just for the record, it does not match with the rates sorted by number of win :
Spoiler: show
Sequell wrote:43917/5791007 games for *: 1623/152560x MiFi [1.06%], 1478/118699x MiBe [1.25%], 1078/78786x GrFi [1.37%], 726/113232x SpEn [0.64%], 661/83258x HOFi [0.79%], 563/87200x DEFE [0.65%], 505/27483x MiGl [1.84%], 482/26071x GrBe [1.85%], 456/21112x DDFi [2.16%], 449/70843x FoFi [0.63%], 445/49876x TrMo [0.89%], 421/70294x DsGl [0.60%], 404/85077x DECj [0.47%], 377/31637x GrEE [1.19%], 357/104973x DsFi
[0.34%], 355/31424x CeHu [1.13%], 332/16129x HOGl [2.06%], 324/49699x DsBe [0.65%], 317/33103x MfGl [0.96%], 308/39238x KoBe [0.78%], 306/23757x HOBe [1.29%], 296/16497x DDBe [1.79%], 293/30248x OgBe [0.97%], 287/29958x OgHu [0.96%], 263/23768x GhMo [1.11%], 260/47655x VpEn [0.55%], 258/71223x DrTm [0.36%], 256/52978x MDFi [0.48%], 249/88731x DEWz [0.28%], 246/13326x GrGl [1.85%], 236/63566x DsMo
[0.37%], 235/9150x DDEE [2.57%], 235/20448x DDNe [1.15%], 231/18957x VSBe [1.22%], 228/24357x VSMo [0.94%], 207/22043x VSFi [0.94%], 205/20219x MiMo [1.01%], 202/45699x DsWn [0.44%], 195/25898x MfIE [0.75%], 181/12609x VSAs [1.44%], 180/28944x MfSk [0.62%], 179/29847x HOPr [0.60%], 173/25375x DrCj [0.68%], 160/29424x DsNe [0.54%], 160/28202x DsWz [0.57%], 158/13781x NaFi [1.15%], 157/25389x KoAs
[0.62%], 156/43205x HEWz [0.36%], 153/5139x HaBe [2.98%], 153/33184x TeAE [0.46%], 149/59313x OpTm [0.25%], 146/13875x GrMo [1.05%], 146/12228x TrHu [1.19%], 146/20146x HEAE [0.72%], 141/51095x DsAK [0.28%], 140/12920x HaHu [1.08%], 139/19199x HECj [0.72%], 139/47422x DsCK [0.29%], 139/11317x HaAs [1.23%], 138/7234x MfBe [1.91%], 138/15714x NaWz [0.88%], 135/13190x FeBe [1.02%], 134/21329x MfTm
[0.63%], 125/21393x DrMo [0.58%], 124/43627x MuWz [0.28%], 124/19072x DsFE [0.65%], 121/15475x HEFE [0.78%], 118/39373x SpAs [0.30%], 116/26065x NaTm [0.45%], 114/18736x MuFi [0.61%], 113/19883x MfCr [0.57%], 112/18575x TrFi [0.60%], 111/12714x DsIE [0.87%], 110/32563x TrBe [0.34%], 108/20349x TrCK [0.53%], 107/21147x MuSu [0.51%], 106/6042x NaBe [1.75%], 105/7157x CeFi [1.47%], 105/33835x HuFi
[0.31%], 105/10268x MiHu [1.02%], 104/11373x SpVM [0.91%], 103/5916x MiWn [1.74%], 102/8131x MiCK [1.25%], 102/10092x HuBe [1.01%], 101/18171x TeCj [0.56%], 99/10201x GrWz [0.97%], 98/28550x HuWn [0.34%], 96/15799x DrWz[0.61%],95/9491x HEIE [1.00%], 95/3443x DDGl [2.76%], 94/17411x FoAK [0.54%], 94/4817x DDHe [1.95%], 94/6243x DgCj [1.51%], 92/28050x OpWz [0.33%], 91/16251x DEIE [0.56%],
90/7497x DsAr [1.20%], 90/11636x DrFE [0.77%], 87/17056x DsAs [0.51%], 87/37192x HESk [0.23%], 87/14491x HOAK [0.60%], 86/4603x DDAr [1.87%], 86/7220x DrIE [1.19%], 86/9021x GrFE [0.95%], 86/7898x KoAr [1.09%], 86/15781x DrWn[0.54%], 85/5879x TeBe [1.45%], 85/13092x DsCj [0.65%], 85/7851x DsVM [1.08%], 85/6655x MiDK [1.28%], 85/18093x DsSk [0.47%], 84/28703x MuNe [0.29%], 84/5330x SpBe [1.58%],
82/28556x DgWn [0.29%], 82/7568x HOMo [1.08%], 82/3023x TrWr [2.71%], 81/8424x SEEE [0.96%], 81/16576x FeTm [0.49%], 79/10682x MDBe [0.74%], 79/15004x DrBe [0.53%], 78/6351x NaMo [1.23%], 78/12750x TeFE [0.61%]
Online stats
Fastest Hell runes (enter Hell branch -> get the rune)
Icy : 56 / Iron : 126 / Obsidian : 215 / Bone : 125

For this message the author mopl has received thanks: 2
4Hooves2Appendages, TwoLeggedMammal

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1230

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57

Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 12:45

Re: Artificer phenomenon

Amazing! I should really learn to use sequell.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 13:45

Re: Artificer phenomenon

I have just learned how awesome Artificer can be.

1) I met Grinder, while moving to stairs met a Water Moccassin and enslaved it, together with wand of flame we killed him. But it wasn't over yet, Wyvern (on D5!) got adjacent to me so I enslaved it too and escaped via stairs.

2) On next floor I met Centaur, while being adjacent to him I saw Prince Rabbit 2 tiles away from me (34% enslavement is not good enough) so I charmed Centaur instead and tried to retreat to stairs (I have no unknown scrolls and tele/blink/fear are still unknown) but ran into Orc Warrior with wand of lightning. Tried to run from it too but found Orc Priest blocking my path.
So I had no choice but enslaved Orc Warrior (who killed Orc Priest), unfortunately in a few turns I was still really low on HP and adjacent to Prince so enslaving the Prince was the only chance to survive. Fortunately it worked and the Prince killed Orc Warrior (charming ended) while I was moving to stairs. Of course I did some mistakes (should have enslaved Centaur immediately after noticing Prince) and was lucky (Prince missed me twice while I was at 6 HP).

I suspect with any other background I would be dead either on D5 (being paralyzed or slow after killing Grinder with berserk and getting Wyvern) or D6 (Centaur + Prince + Orc Warrior with wand of lightning + Orc Priest)

  Code:
A centaur comes into view.
The centaur shouts! You hear a loud, deep croak! You hear a shout!
The centaur hits you but does no damage.
Prince Ribbit comes into view.
You hit the centaur.
The centaur is lightly wounded.
The centaur hits you.
Damage: -7%(-5hp)   hp: 77%(51hp)
You hit the centaur.
The centaur is lightly wounded.
The centaur misses you.
Evoke which item? (* to show all) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Zapping: d - a wand of enslavement (8/24)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - centaur
Aim: a centaur (lightly wounded, chance to defeat MR: 51%)
The centaur is charmed. This wand has 7 charges left.
Unknown command.
An orc warrior comes into view. It is wielding a scimitar.
Prince Ribbit blinks!
The orc warrior zaps a wand.
The bolt of lightning hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
It is a wand of lightning.
Huge Dmg: -37%(-25hp) hp: 41%(27hp)
Unknown command.
The orc warrior throws a tomahawk. The tomahawk closely misses you.
Unknown command.
Prince Ribbit hits your centaur.
The orc warrior zaps a wand.
The bolt of lightning hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Huge Dmg: -33%(-22hp) hp: 8%(5hp)
Evoke which item? (* to show all) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Zapping: d - a wand of enslavement (7/24)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - orc warrior, p - centaur
Aim: an orc warrior, wielding a scimitar, wearing a plate armour and carrying a wand of lightning {zapped: 2} (chance to defeat MR: 51%)
The orc warrior is charmed. This wand has 6 charges left. Prince Ribbit blinks!
Your orc warrior zaps a wand.
Nothing appears to happen.
An orc priest comes into view. It is wielding a club.
Something hits your centaur!!
Your centaur dies!
Okay, then.
Unknown command.
Prince Ribbit blinks!
Items here: $ ( ) â€
a shortbow; 17 arrows; 16 gold pieces; a centaur corpse
Items here: $ ( ) â€
a shortbow; 17 arrows; 16 gold pieces; a centaur corpse
Unknown command.
Prince Ribbit croaks regally.
Prince Ribbit barely misses you. Prince Ribbit closely misses you.
Your orc warrior hits Prince Ribbit with a scimitar!
The orc priest hits your orc warrior but does no damage.
The orc priest shouts, "Surrender to Beogh and we'll let you live!"
(press Y on the ability menu to convert to Beogh)
Okay, then.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Evoke which item? (* to show all) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Zapping: d - a wand of enslavement (6/24)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - Prince Ribbit, p - orc warrior
Aim: Prince Ribbit (moderately wounded, chance to defeat MR: 34%)
Prince Ribbit is charmed. This wand has 5 charges left.
The orc priest shouts, "Join the one true god or die!"
Your orc warrior hits the orc priest with a scimitar!
The orc priest dies!
Your Short Blades skill increases to level 8!
Prince Ribbit blinks!
Your orc warrior throws a tomahawk.
What do you say?
 t - Shout!
Orders for allies: a - Attack new target.   p - Attack previous target.
                   r - Retreat!             s - Stop attacking.
                   w - Wait here.           f - Follow me.
 Anything else - Stay silent.
Retreat in which direction?
Press: ? - help, Dir - move target cursor, p - Prince Ribbit
Fall back!
You hear a shout! x2
Your orc warrior throws a tomahawk.
Your orc warrior throws a tomahawk.
You feel a bit more experienced.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.

Sar

User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6418

Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 14:00

Re: Artificer phenomenon

As a Be you wouldn't berserk vs. Grinder (blink), you'd pop Trog's Hand, laugh at his pathetic effort to paralyse you and walk away, or maybe kill him with regular attacks. I agree that Ar is good, though.

For this message the author Sar has received thanks:
Sandman25

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 14:04

Re: Artificer phenomenon

Ok, berserker would die on D6 :)

I have just tested, 3% paralyze from Grinder as XL 7 HO with Trog's hand.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 329

Joined: Wednesday, 19th December 2012, 13:23

Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 14:43

Re: Artificer phenomenon

mopl wrote:Sequell does.
Spoiler: show
Sequell wrote:43918/5791034 games for *: 1/3x SaIE [33.33%], 2/13x GrDK [15.38%], 1/9x ImMo [11.11%], 1/10x GnPr [10.00%], 1/10x OMAs [10.00%], 1/14x LOSt [7.14%], 1/14x GECK [7.14%], 49/707x MiAs [6.93%], 1/15x GEBe [6.67%], 3/47x LOVM [6.38%], 21/366x DDVM [5.74%], 1/18x ImHu [5.56%], 23/422x DDFE [5.45%], 60/1113x MiAr [5.39%], 24/448x CeAs [5.36%], 2/39x LOAE [5.13%], 19/372x DDAM [5.11%], 26/513x GrAM [5.07%], 25/520x DDSu [4.81%], 1/21x OMBe [4.76%], 29/619x GrAE [4.68%], 2/43x DDRe [4.65%], 3/66x LOHu [4.55%], 2/44x ChTm [4.55%], 1/22x LaGl [4.55%], 25/553x DDTm [4.52%], 13/298x VSAM [4.36%], 27/621x GhHu [4.35%], 49/1143x TrAM [4.29%], 1/24x FeGl [4.17%], 41/994x TrAs [4.12%], 19/462x CeEn [4.11%], 23/562x HOVM [4.09%], 30/735x GhAr [4.08%], 1/25x FePa [4.00%], 1/25x MiTh [4.00%], 1/25x PlAK [4.00%], 25/637x DDAs [3.92%], 26/667x MiSu [3.90%], 22/567x HaEE [3.88%], 19/490x VSHu [3.88%], 1/26x SaTm [3.85%], 25/673x TrAE [3.71%], 18/487x DDCj [3.70%], 31/855x NaAr [3.63%], 3/83x GnHe [3.61%], 33/917x VSAr [3.60%], 31/864x MiAM [3.59%], 32/896x HOAs [3.57%], 19/534x HaVM [3.56%], 23/650x HOAM [3.54%], 16/461x DDSk [3.47%], 2/58x LOAM [3.45%], 1/29x FeRe [3.45%], 1/29x CeTh [3.45%], 1/29x OgTh [3.45%], 33/957x FeEE [3.45%], 1/29x HDTh [3.45%], 16/469x FoIE [3.41%], 3/88x MDTh [3.41%], 25/740x MfAM [3.38%], 29/860x DDMo [3.37%], 23/687x CeNe [3.35%], 22/665x CeAr [3.31%], 26/798x MiEn [3.26%], 33/1022x GrAs [3.23%], 7/217x LOAr [3.23%], 2/62x HaRe [3.23%], 16/501x CeVM [3.19%], 5/157x MDSt [3.18%], 22/692x MiIE [3.18%], 57/1812x HOAr [3.15%], 35/1116x MiWr [3.14%], 4/128x DDCr [3.12%], 30/968x GrAr [3.10%], 40/1291x DrHu [3.10%], 23/745x HaCj [3.09%], 41/1347x DrAs [3.04%], 23/758x MiEE [3.03%], 10/334x DDPr [2.99%], 153/5139x HaBe [2.98%], 1/34x DDTh [2.94%], 11/375x HaHe [2.93%], 8/275x VSHe [2.91%], 1/35x GhJr [2.86%], 25/878x TrSk [2.85%], 4/142x SESk [2.82%], 3/108x DgJr [2.78%], 1/36x TrTh [2.78%], 1/36x GnWn [2.78%], 35/1261x TrAr [2.78%], 95/3443x DDGl [2.76%], 8/290x VSDK [2.76%], 82/3023x TrWr [2.71%], 1/37x DjEE [2.70%], 29/1073x MiFE [2.70%], 1/37x GnCj [2.70%], 13/481x HaSu [2.70%], 27/1002x GhAK [2.69%], 23/859x GhAM [2.68%], 25/938x MfFE [2.67%], 10/378x HaDK [2.65%], 17/645x MfEE [2.64%], 30/1139x MiAE [2.63%], 19/722x VpHu [2.63%], 2/76x MiRe [2.63%], 1/38x ElTm [2.63%], 22/843x TrSu [2.61%], 27/1047x MiCj [2.58%], 31/1205x MfHu [2.57%], 235/9150x DDEE [2.57%], 38/1481x OgAs [2.57%], 1/39x BeIE [2.56%], 37/1482x MiSk [2.50%], 16/641x CeSu [2.50%], 30/1206x MfAr [2.49%], 21/845x HOTm [2.49%], 5/202x HOSt [2.48%], 17/691x TrVM [2.46%], 3/123x MDAs [2.44%], 15/619x DDDK [2.42%], 20/839x VSFE [2.38%], 1/42x LOEn [2.38%], 2/84x OgJr [2.38%], 25/1057x FoAs [2.37%], 5/213x DDSt [2.35%], 22/948x SpIE [2.32%], 2/87x NaJr [2.30%], 14/609x LOCK [2.30%], 18/783x DDWz [2.30%], 31/1352x CeHe [2.29%], 78/3413x HOHe [2.29%], 29/1270x DgVM [2.28%], 9/395x MiSt [2.28%], 17/752x GhCj [2.26%], 1/45x CeJr [2.22%], 2/90x CeRe [2.22%], 1/45x SaBe [2.22%]...
As crate suggested, experimental combos (Salamandes, Imps) that have been played only a few times get the highest scores...

And for playable combos :
Spoiler: show
Sequell wrote:40589/5225865 games for * (playable): 49/707x MiAs [6.93%], 21/366x DDVM [5.74%], 23/422x DDFE [5.45%], 60/1113x MiAr [5.39%], 24/448x CeAs [5.36%], 19/372x DDAM [5.11%], 26/513x GrAM [5.07%], 25/520x DDSu [4.81%], 29/619x GrAE [4.68%], 25/553x DDTm [4.52%], 13/298x VSAM [4.36%], 27/621x GhHu [4.35%], 49/1143x TrAM [4.29%], 41/994x TrAs [4.12%], 19/462x CeEn [4.11%], 23/562x HOVM [4.09%], 30/735x GhAr [4.08%], 25/637x DDAs [3.92%], 26/667x MiSu [3.90%], 22/567x HaEE [3.88%], 19/490x VSHu [3.88%], 25/673x TrAE [3.71%], 18/487x DDCj [3.70%], 31/855x NaAr [3.63%], 33/917x VSAr [3.60%], 31/864x MiAM [3.59%], 32/896x HOAs [3.57%], 19/534x HaVM [3.56%], 23/650x HOAM [3.54%], 16/461x DDSk [3.47%], 33/957x FeEE [3.45%], 16/469x FoIE [3.41%], 25/740x MfAM [3.38%], 29/860x DDMo [3.37%], 23/687x CeNe [3.35%], 22/665x CeAr [3.31%], 26/798x MiEn [3.26%], 33/1022x GrAs [3.23%], 16/501x CeVM [3.19%], 22/692x MiIE [3.18%], 57/1812x HOAr [3.15%], 35/1116x MiWr [3.14%], 30/968x GrAr [3.10%], 40/1291x DrHu [3.10%], 23/745x HaCj [3.09%], 41/1347x DrAs [3.04%], 23/758x MiEE [3.03%], 153/5139x HaBe [2.98%], 25/878x TrSk [2.85%], 35/1261x TrAr [2.78%], 95/3443x DDGl [2.76%], 82/3023x TrWr [2.71%], 29/1073x MiFE [2.70%], 13/481x HaSu [2.70%], 27/1002x GhAK [2.69%], 23/859x GhAM [2.68%], 25/938x MfFE [2.67%], 17/645x MfEE [2.64%], 30/1139x MiAE [2.63%], 19/722x VpHu [2.63%], 22/843x TrSu [2.61%], 27/1047x MiCj [2.58%], 31/1205x MfHu [2.57%], 235/9150x DDEE [2.57%], 38/1481x OgAs [2.57%], 37/1482x MiSk [2.50%], 16/641x CeSu [2.50%], 30/1206x MfAr [2.49%], 21/845x HOTm [2.49%], 17/691x TrVM [2.46%], 20/839x VSFE [2.38%], 25/1057x FoAs [2.37%], 22/948x SpIE [2.32%], 18/783x DDWz [2.30%], 29/1270x DgVM [2.28%], 17/752x GhCj [2.26%], 20/906x HaIE [2.21%], 26/1178x VSWr [2.21%], 21/957x DrAM [2.19%], 24/1097x HOAE [2.19%], 53/2439x MfAs [2.17%], 456/21113x DDFi [2.16%], 17/788x FoFE [2.16%], 20/936x HEEE [2.14%], 26/1219x HOWr [2.13%], 18/845x FoSu [2.13%], 26/1232x OgAE [2.11%], 24/1147x TrCj [2.09%], 58/2785x TrWn [2.08%], 29/1395x HaCK [2.08%], 20/970x TrEn [2.06%], 332/16129x HOGl [2.06%], 22/1071x GrSu [2.05%], 31/1510x HaAM [2.05%], 33/1608x OgAr [2.05%], 42/2061x FeFE [2.04%], 16/787x GrEn [2.03%], 14/691x GhEn [2.03%], 23/1137x GrWr [2.02%], 29/1434x HaTm [2.02%], 22/1092x TrIE [2.01%], 17/844x HEVM [2.01%], 54/2684x GhWr [2.01%], 46/2289x DgNe [2.01%], 17/846x CeFE [2.01%], 27/1348x DgAr [2.00%], 42/2117x DDCK [1.98%], 66/3335x CeMo [1.98%], 19/962x VSVM [1.98%], 23/1170x GhSk [1.97%], 37/1887x HOHu [1.96%], 26/1355x DrEn [1.92%], 32/1674x NaSu [1.91%], 21/1100x GhAs [1.91%], 138/7235x MfBe [1.91%], 34/1790x HaGl [1.90%], 25/1337x SpFE [1.87%], 86/4603x DDAr [1.87%], 25/1347x HaNe [1.86%], 482/26071x GrBe [1.85%], 22/1191x CeSk [1.85%], 246/13326x GrGl [1.85%], 505/27483x MiGl [1.84%], 28/1534x OgSu [1.83%], 16/881x FoAE [1.82%], 21/1162x MfNe [1.81%], 40/2214x HaAr [1.81%], 23/1278x KoSk [1.80%], 71/3951x CeBe [1.80%], 296/16497x DDBe [1.79%], 30/1689x MfWr [1.78%]...

Just for the record, it does not match with the rates sorted by number of win :
Spoiler: show
Sequell wrote:43917/5791007 games for *: 1623/152560x MiFi [1.06%], 1478/118699x MiBe [1.25%], 1078/78786x GrFi [1.37%], 726/113232x SpEn [0.64%], 661/83258x HOFi [0.79%], 563/87200x DEFE [0.65%], 505/27483x MiGl [1.84%], 482/26071x GrBe [1.85%], 456/21112x DDFi [2.16%], 449/70843x FoFi [0.63%], 445/49876x TrMo [0.89%], 421/70294x DsGl [0.60%], 404/85077x DECj [0.47%], 377/31637x GrEE [1.19%], 357/104973x DsFi
[0.34%], 355/31424x CeHu [1.13%], 332/16129x HOGl [2.06%], 324/49699x DsBe [0.65%], 317/33103x MfGl [0.96%], 308/39238x KoBe [0.78%], 306/23757x HOBe [1.29%], 296/16497x DDBe [1.79%], 293/30248x OgBe [0.97%], 287/29958x OgHu [0.96%], 263/23768x GhMo [1.11%], 260/47655x VpEn [0.55%], 258/71223x DrTm [0.36%], 256/52978x MDFi [0.48%], 249/88731x DEWz [0.28%], 246/13326x GrGl [1.85%], 236/63566x DsMo
[0.37%], 235/9150x DDEE [2.57%], 235/20448x DDNe [1.15%], 231/18957x VSBe [1.22%], 228/24357x VSMo [0.94%], 207/22043x VSFi [0.94%], 205/20219x MiMo [1.01%], 202/45699x DsWn [0.44%], 195/25898x MfIE [0.75%], 181/12609x VSAs [1.44%], 180/28944x MfSk [0.62%], 179/29847x HOPr [0.60%], 173/25375x DrCj [0.68%], 160/29424x DsNe [0.54%], 160/28202x DsWz [0.57%], 158/13781x NaFi [1.15%], 157/25389x KoAs
[0.62%], 156/43205x HEWz [0.36%], 153/5139x HaBe [2.98%], 153/33184x TeAE [0.46%], 149/59313x OpTm [0.25%], 146/13875x GrMo [1.05%], 146/12228x TrHu [1.19%], 146/20146x HEAE [0.72%], 141/51095x DsAK [0.28%], 140/12920x HaHu [1.08%], 139/19199x HECj [0.72%], 139/47422x DsCK [0.29%], 139/11317x HaAs [1.23%], 138/7234x MfBe [1.91%], 138/15714x NaWz [0.88%], 135/13190x FeBe [1.02%], 134/21329x MfTm
[0.63%], 125/21393x DrMo [0.58%], 124/43627x MuWz [0.28%], 124/19072x DsFE [0.65%], 121/15475x HEFE [0.78%], 118/39373x SpAs [0.30%], 116/26065x NaTm [0.45%], 114/18736x MuFi [0.61%], 113/19883x MfCr [0.57%], 112/18575x TrFi [0.60%], 111/12714x DsIE [0.87%], 110/32563x TrBe [0.34%], 108/20349x TrCK [0.53%], 107/21147x MuSu [0.51%], 106/6042x NaBe [1.75%], 105/7157x CeFi [1.47%], 105/33835x HuFi
[0.31%], 105/10268x MiHu [1.02%], 104/11373x SpVM [0.91%], 103/5916x MiWn [1.74%], 102/8131x MiCK [1.25%], 102/10092x HuBe [1.01%], 101/18171x TeCj [0.56%], 99/10201x GrWz [0.97%], 98/28550x HuWn [0.34%], 96/15799x DrWz[0.61%],95/9491x HEIE [1.00%], 95/3443x DDGl [2.76%], 94/17411x FoAK [0.54%], 94/4817x DDHe [1.95%], 94/6243x DgCj [1.51%], 92/28050x OpWz [0.33%], 91/16251x DEIE [0.56%],
90/7497x DsAr [1.20%], 90/11636x DrFE [0.77%], 87/17056x DsAs [0.51%], 87/37192x HESk [0.23%], 87/14491x HOAK [0.60%], 86/4603x DDAr [1.87%], 86/7220x DrIE [1.19%], 86/9021x GrFE [0.95%], 86/7898x KoAr [1.09%], 86/15781x DrWn[0.54%], 85/5879x TeBe [1.45%], 85/13092x DsCj [0.65%], 85/7851x DsVM [1.08%], 85/6655x MiDK [1.28%], 85/18093x DsSk [0.47%], 84/28703x MuNe [0.29%], 84/5330x SpBe [1.58%],
82/28556x DgWn [0.29%], 82/7568x HOMo [1.08%], 82/3023x TrWr [2.71%], 81/8424x SEEE [0.96%], 81/16576x FeTm [0.49%], 79/10682x MDBe [0.74%], 79/15004x DrBe [0.53%], 78/6351x NaMo [1.23%], 78/12750x TeFE [0.61%]

Could you (or anyone else) provide such a list for just backgrounds? That's probably the only time i'd want to use Sequell so laziness strikes.
Offline greaterplayer (who cares). I don't always play online, but when i do, i streak felids.
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Dis Charger

Posts: 1939

Joined: Monday, 18th February 2013, 07:59

Location: France

Post Saturday, 18th June 2016, 16:12

Re: Artificer phenomenon

Of course !

Here are the results by winrate :
Spoiler: show
Sequell wrote:[18:05]43929/5791977 games for *: 470/32497x Healer [1.45%], 720/57443x Arcane Marksman [1.25%], 1057/86267x Artificer [1.23%], 2831/254181x Gladiator [1.11%], 5222/473314x Berserker [1.10%], 1469/137204x Earth Elementalist [1.07%], 878/86369x Warper [1.02%], 906/94871x Venom Mage [0.95%], 1739/184834x Hunter [0.94%], 1270/139794x Ice Elementalist [0.91%], 543/64124x Death Knight [0.85%], 28/3311x Jester [0.85%], 928/112364x Air Elementalist [0.83%], 6358/793468x Fighter [0.80%], 1839/242878x Fire Elementalist [0.76%], 766/101588x Summoner [0.75%], 2480/329475x Monk [0.75%], 1391/186954x Assassin [0.74%], 1156/170620x Chaos Knight [0.68%], 1590/236288x Conjurer [0.67%], 337/51889x Priest [0.65%], 1017/162567x Skald [0.63%], 1592/255471x Enchanter [0.62%], 1116/180633x Necromancer [0.62%], 927/164962x Abyssal Knight [0.56%], 136/24251x Paladin [0.56%], 1696/367746x Wizard [0.46%], 1497/325735x Wanderer [0.46%], 257/58993x Crusader [0.44%], 1384/324631x Transmuter [0.43%], 205/50492x Stalker [0.41%], 77/19773x Reaver [0.39%], 47/16990x Thief [0.28%]

And here by popularity :
Spoiler: show
Sequell wrote:5792008 games for *: 793475x Fighter (13.70%), 473317x Berserker (8.17%), 367747x Wizard (6.35%), 329477x Monk (5.69%), 325735x Wanderer (5.62%), 324633x Transmuter (5.60%), 255471x Enchanter (4.41%), 254181x Gladiator (4.39%), 242881x Fire Elementalist (4.19%), 236288x Conjurer (4.08%), 186956x Assassin (3.23%), 184834x Hunter (3.19%), 180633x Necromancer (3.12%), 170621x Chaos Knight (2.95%), 164967x Abyssal Knight (2.85%), 162568x Skald (2.81%), 139796x Ice Elementalist (2.41%), 137204x Earth Elementalist (2.37%), 112364x Air Elementalist (1.94%), 101588x Summoner (1.75%), 94871x Venom Mage (1.64%), 86369x Warper (1.49%), 86269x Artificer (1.49%), 64124x Death Knight (1.11%), 58993x Crusader (1.02%), 57443x Arcane Marksman (0.99%), 51889x Priest (0.90%), 50492x Stalker (0.87%), 32497x Healer (0.56%), 24251x Paladin (0.42%), 19773x Reaver (0.34%), 16990x Thief (0.29%), 3311x Jester (0.06%)

Artificier isn't a popular background (11 from the bottom of the list, 2nd playabale from the bottom) and indeed the 3rd best winrate.
Online stats
Fastest Hell runes (enter Hell branch -> get the rune)
Icy : 56 / Iron : 126 / Obsidian : 215 / Bone : 125

For this message the author mopl has received thanks:
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Blades Runner

Posts: 568

Joined: Wednesday, 5th March 2014, 03:52

Post Sunday, 19th June 2016, 18:11

Re: Artificer phenomenon

Yeah, they're not recommended as a newbie friendly combo so most artificer players are experienced, and they're insanely good in the early game. You have the tools to take out any non-uniques (except crimson imps, but who cares) at least until lair. The existence of Pakellas is just icing on the cake.

I don't know why arcame marksmen did so well. They are terrible and I hate them.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Sunday, 19th June 2016, 19:12

Re: Artificer phenomenon

AM has a high winrate because it is extremely unpopular. The second-least-played background (warper) gets played about 50% more often than AM.
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Blades Runner

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Joined: Wednesday, 5th March 2014, 03:52

Post Sunday, 19th June 2016, 19:31

Re: Artificer phenomenon

That makes sense.

(Merge Warper and Arcane Marksman, pls.)

Halls Hopper

Posts: 76

Joined: Tuesday, 16th September 2014, 15:52

Post Tuesday, 21st June 2016, 16:41

Re: Artificer phenomenon

At the very least the Arcane Marksman starting book should have Portal Projectile, and I wouldn't say no to some crappy summons.

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Tuesday, 21st June 2016, 17:08

Re: Artificer phenomenon

Summons would be super bad for AM, they get in the way of your things. (Even with pproj you still have slow/corona that you can't target through allies.)

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