Necronomicon over pain brand?

[Konedar]

If I have access to excruciating wounds (not 100% sure but quite often in kikus books) I choose the necronomicon over permanent pain brand from Kiku in almost every case. To make use of pain brand necromancy skill is needed anyway so casting ex. wounds is not a problem (I'm likely to have a few levels of charms too), the duration is pretty good and it doesn't happen often to recast it during battle. It is usually available at 1* or 3* (early lair) against 6* (late lair). 5 mana is not so much (if I cast it I will probably kill things in melee so I don't need to cast more than a couple of agonys and some buffs). The necronomicon is great for extended game where pain is useless and B.revivification is perfectly usable also in a 3 rune game.
Why I've read in so manys post the advice to get pain brand over necronomicon? What am I missing?

[mageykun]

Early on pain is way more valuable than the necronomicon. You can brand your weapon as soon as you get to ******, but you can't make full use of the book until you have the int, necro and spell slots. And even if you have all that, it takes a good while for the stuff in the book to really be relevant.

Add in the fact that if you really want to do extended, by the time you get there, you're probably going to have found a necronomicon or two somewhere. But the floor god tends to be less generous with dropping the best brand available to you on exactly the kind of weapon you want.

Why's enchant pain inferior to the permanent brand? It takes time to cast, it will have to be renewed in longer battles (or even short ones with insufficient spell strength), there's the opportunity cost of the mp you're spending each battle, and it takes up spell slots. Plus, instead of just stacking as much necro as you can for massive early pain damage, it likely forces you to pick up some charms.

Not that you can't make enchant pain and the necronomicon work, this is just why people like the perma-pain better.

[KoboldLord]

The Necronomicon simply isn't very useful. The four spells in it require massive xp investment to get working, and two of them also require massive xp investment in a magic skill that you aren't likely to have ever used or started building up with a necromancy-themed character. Not one single time have I gone for Necromutation in a real game and felt that the benefits justified the enormous expense for doing so.

Further, the Necronomicon is actually a pretty common random book drop. I usually end up with two or three copies on every 15-Rune character, and it's pretty unusual not to see at least one before you start dipping your toe into the post-endgame. Pain, on the other hand, is exceedingly rare and you're unlikely to notice it even if it does spawn, since the odds of getting it are heavily weighted towards some weapon you don't have any skill in. Trying every possible weapon looking for the pain brand is a good way to take an XL5 vacation to the Abyss, while trying every possible book looking for the Necronomicon is absolutely harmless.

The pain brand gift becomes available at roughly the same time you start considering entering Lair or Orc, and it is instantly the best possible weapon you can hope for. It will remain the best possible weapon for most of the game. Excrutiating Wounds is noisy enough to break stealth, which means you'll be using it on sixteen death yaks instead of just four, and back in the Dungeon centaurs and yaktaurs will take the opportunity you're offering to perforate you at range. Plus, those spell slots are something you could have spent on a more useful spell, like Agony or Animate Dead. A hybrid, even a necro-hybrid, doesn't have the xp to spare to build up everything they could possibly want to the highest levels.

[crate]

Another note: excruciating wounds is very loud. Using a very loud spell as your primary means of killing things is quite annoying.

Anyway if you think the necronomicon is better then you are certainly free to take it. In my experience this is not usually the case (particularly since a pain brand is useful the instant you hit 6*, whereas the necronomicon is mostly useless for quite some time afterward).

[Konedar]

Thank you all for the explanation, makes sense. I really never consider the loudness of a spell unless I'm playing a stealth class (not my favourite), I guess I should think about it... You persuaded me, but of course before reading the replies I picked the necronomicon let's see how my Ds will do. I have talons, brown scales, miasma/rot, powered by pain, robust. Not a bad combo mass hp plus powered by pain, but some higher ac scales would have been better.

[danharaj]

If you want an instructional experience about spell loudness, clear vaults 8 with shatter.

[Konedar]

I already did that with DDEE and cleared whole V8 without moving from the stairs, it was pretty amazing

[rebthor]

I already did that with DDEE and cleared whole V8 without moving from the stairs, it was pretty amazing

I did that too once. Shatter+Vehumet = Lulz were had.

[Southpaw]

Eh, a weapon of noise and a shield of the gong is a much better learning experience

[A spy]

Shatter is nice in Vaults:8, but not quite as much as in Tomb:3

[Konedar]

Shatter is nice in Vaults:8, but not quite as much as in Tomb:3

Yeah I planned to do that too but I had some troubles in tomb 1 and chickened out. Later on I YASD with TRJ, didn't know that acid blobs can shoot through each other, I had 5 or 6 shooting at me...