On Giant Spiked Clubs

[4Hooves2Appendages]

At what point should an Ogre reasonably switch to using giant spiked clubs?

Obviously they do great damage, but the chance to hit is poor.

Do you use dire flails and great maces (especially with enchantments) for a while before bringing out the big gun?

What level of fighting / M&F is necessary to get a decent chance to hit?

Do you switch to a higher accuracy weapon against enemies with high EV?

[chequers]

15 skill, approx

[Magipi]

I start using them as soon as I find one, which is hopefully much earlier than 15 M&F skill. Agains high-EV tough enemies (like, say, black mamba) I use wands.

[Tiktacy]

I normally use a regular giant club the entire game. I find the investment to be more efficient, but I guess thats just me.

[Reptisaurus]

Completely subjectively, and someone else can do the math on this and prove me wrong, but GSC seems pretty damn good to me immediately.

[4Hooves2Appendages]

Hmm. Different opinions have been presented. Time for some fsim perhaps. Meh.

[Tiktacy]

Hmm. Different opinions have been presented. Time for some fsim perhaps. Meh.

Agreed

[4Hooves2Appendages]

Where's sandman when you need him?

[MainiacJoe]

I did a zero-skill fsim study a couple months ago viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19394. Giant club (not GSC because accuracy is most important at low skill) is better than any other M&F against high AC or normal foes, but you definitely want to use a smaller one against high EV i.e adders. That study was for mages picking up stuff off the floor in the early dungeon, but at least it gives a starting point.

[rchandra]

Until you have decent* skill, using the weapon with the greatest enchantment is often good. I'm happy to just put on a GC/GSC and forget about it as soon as I have a few enchant or brand scrolls, Og will get skill fast enough.

[TonberryJam]

As early as possible. If up against high evasion at low skill, might want to not use it because you will miss. Higher Dex will help as it was said to increase to hit now.

[raikaria]

I have my best results with Ogres not using the clubs.

Personally I like using Shields with my Ogres to make up for their lack of defense [Large Size + Bad dodging Apt + Can't wear most armors; while their Shields Apt is only -1 and they need less skill anyway]

I takes a lot less skill to put a Star to Mindelay than a Giant Club. It's a lot easier to obtain branded and Randart versions of the other M+F weapons as well. Due to your +3 Apt in M+F; you can quickly reach mindelay and then dump your XP into something else [Like Shields]

That said what I'm enjoying with Ogres right now is a OgFi [So you start with a Shield] of Pakellas. I was having a great run with a Whip of Freezing until I got killed by an Unseen Horror I couldn't see or deal with. It's really not too painful to dump XP into a -1 and -2 skill when your other 2 main skills are both +3.

You ca use Giant Clubs; but you have to be wary that an Ogre with no Shields; who hasn't found any armour he can wear yet; is about as squishy in terms of defenses as an Octopode [Just with more HP]

[Hands]

I have my best results with Ogres not using the clubs.

Personally I like using Shields with my Ogres to make up for their lack of defense [Large Size + Bad dodging Apt + Can't wear most armors; while their Shields Apt is only -1 and they need less skill anyway]

I takes a lot less skill to put a Star to Mindelay than a Giant Club. It's a lot easier to obtain branded and Randart versions of the other M+F weapons as well. Due to your +3 Apt in M+F; you can quickly reach mindelay and then dump your XP into something else [Like Shields]

That said what I'm enjoying with Ogres right now is a OgFi [So you start with a Shield] of Pakellas. I was having a great run with a Whip of Freezing until I got killed by an Unseen Horror I couldn't see or deal with. It's really not too painful to dump XP into a -1 and -2 skill when your other 2 main skills are both +3.

You ca use Giant Clubs; but you have to be wary that an Ogre with no Shields; who hasn't found any armour he can wear yet; is about as squishy in terms of defenses as an Octopode [Just with more HP]

Have you considered that as a player who struggles to win the things you do may be bad? Like, maybe someone whose idea of a great run is getting killed by an unseen horror is probably not running a great strategy? I'm not trying to be a dick but come on. Crawl is very winnable. If you're trying to win but you're not winning, then you're doing it wrong.

Also, ogres have nearly 50% more hp than octopodes, that is a massive increase in survivability.

[crate]

if you're not using a G(S)C as an ogre you probably picked the wrong race

like, I do think that G(S)C is actually very good, but that's also almost irrelevant, since if you're not using a G(S)C you're either a bad troll or a bad minotaur, and in those cases you should just pick troll or minotaur from the outset if your goal is to win

possibly you do want a bit more than 0 skill before you use G(S)C, especially since the GSC nerf, but I'm too lazy to go fsim it and will just suggest you should use it very quickly

[4Hooves2Appendages]

I actually just about get ready for the +0 unbranded GSC, 1.0 attack delay with heroism, hit chance seemed OK. And then Oka handed Eos (+11 morningstar {elec, -Tele rElec SInv}) to me. I'll go with that for the time being until I get an actually enchanted/branded GSC. What are you gonna do?

[Sar]

Eos is cool so I'd use it!

[4Hooves2Appendages]

I am.

[4Hooves2Appendages]

Besides, once you've squish-frazzled a spiny frog thanks to the power of the goddess of the dawn, it's not easy to go back to something as uncivilised as a giant spiked club.

[4Hooves2Appendages]

Oka is teasing me: Here have Eos. - Thanks. - I changed my mind, here have Skullcrusher instead! - Oh.
All I really want is a hat.

[ydeve]

Here's your hat: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=272922#p272922